$13.50 a Point

[PatrickB]

If there was an example of free market concept this it.

I have rented points from another owner for as little $ 3.50 per point and that included passes to the park. I have rented a reservation to OKW in a 2bedroom during the millenium celebration for $ 24.00 per point. It goes back to what the amount the renter is willing to rent the points for and owner is willing to rent the points.

Interestingly enough there is a current special for DVC owners at a resort in Hawaii through concierge collection for 57 points per night with a 3 night minimum stay for a total of 171 points.

The same resort is offering accomodations for $ 525.00 for the same room and for the same stay.

Thus, the value of your point through this exchange is $ 3.07 per point. Boy, this sounds just like the amount we paid for annual dues.

Patrick

 

[DVCajun]

I had to laugh at the poster who said they would never pay $13.50 a point because there are better deals than that on site. Only if you stay at an All Star resort, and many times not even then! Here's an example: In at least four of the point "seasons" the point per night at OWK is 8-10 points a night (during the week). Try finding a rate of $80 to $100 a night for any luxury resort on site. You simply can't find it. I stayed at Coronado Springs recently and paid $99 a night and only got that rate with a special code. And Coronodo is a moderate resort.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

Audrey, here is another example. During June which has the least amount of deals except for holidays, I was able to find HRH for $117 with EC, AKL for $178 with AP, offered Boardwalk for $189 and Swan for $150, all deluxe resorts. DVC renting at that time 11-14 points for studios. The problem also is that there are no guarantees renting points. I did rent out points because I got a good deal per point, otherwise would never have considered it at all. That is my honest 2 cents worth and yes, would have gone elsewhere and you can get the good deals on the top resorts even in hard seasons like now. During the time you suggest, in low season, there are even better deals to be found on all the resorts including the deluxes.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

$13.50 per point is probably a fair price to those who would only stay at luxury accomodations on site. The problem, of course, is that in order to rent points out you will usually want to address a larger audience than that.

Would I pay more than $150 a night to stay on site? No I would not. Would I even pay the $150 in a situation where I can't get the money back...not for a Disney vacation that's for sure.

I suspect that circumstances will drive up the per point price over time.

I think you would get a more successful collusion at $11.00 per point rather than $13.50.

P.S. Is anyone so inclined to perform the calucation as to what the price should be given the current price of $75 per point, say $3.50 in maintenance, and with the assumption the owner wants to recoup their purchase price in 10 years? ...I guess casually that is $11 but I'm ignoring the fact that the owner might have a loan.

 

[DVCajun]

I guess I'm dense, but even a studio in one of our DVC resorts IS a luxury room! Why shouldn't the price reflect that? I'm not really following the logic that we need to attract buyers from every market. I also know that I have rented points in the past and they sold FAST. That's usually an indication that it's a pretty good deal for the buyer. In fact, the renter of my points said as much. She said they usually stayed at All Star resorts, but they wanted to bring a large crowd with them on this trip for a family reunion. She used the points she rented from me to rent 4 studios for a week.

I agree that this is not a money making venture for we DVCers. I certainly didn't join DVC so I could "get my money back" through rentals. However, I value my membership and my resort too much to undervalue them in the rental market. I, for one, will up my rental price if and when I rent my points in the future.

 

[KNWVIKING]

What bothers me about this thread is it's original intent. In my opinion,the original poster is probably someone who rents on a routine basis and is looking for our support to raise the price. As for collusion- where did the $10.00 price come from,who decided,who agreed- why isn't that figure a collusion issue. I don't rent,I may in the future and if chose to I'll decide what to ask. I may have to drop the price as the ressie date approaches,but that's normal for all business transactions.

 

[Towncrier]

KNWVIKING wrote:

In my opinion, the original poster is probably someone who rents on a routine basis

If you look up about 7 posts, you will see that StephenKay does not rent points on a routine basis. He was simply questioning the standard $10/point that people seem to charge. Perhaps next time you will read the entire thread before questioning someone's motives.

I don't know where the $10/point value came from. When we needed to unload some points in 1997, we sold them to friends for $5/point. Better that then let them go to waste. We are all free to decide what our points are worth and no one person or group (other than DVC management) will likely be able to change what an individual charges.

BTW - Happy Birthday KNWVIKING

 

[PamOKW]

Audrey I think the poster is just raising the issue that at some point it's not worthwhile to rent. There is risk involved to the renter and they don't have the flexibility to cancel with no penalty as they do with Disney or any other hotel. They also have to use the Sunday-Thursday routine get low points and this isn't necessarily the best use of one's vacation time. From time to time Disney does offer some pretty decent discounts on DVC accomodations. A week in a Choice Season studio at OKW is 82 points. The current price would be $820 at $13.50 it would be $1,107. The newer price would be about $158/night. Rack rate from Disney is $269 but a 25% discount would bring it to $202 per night or $1,414 (plus tax) for the week. Still a savings but maybe not enough to take a risk renting. Comparing a studio is also pretty comparable to the other deluxe rooms on-site and they may find "deals" that end up being less than renting the studio.

 

[KNWVIKING]

First,thanx for the birthday greeting,it caught me off guard till I realized what I'd put in my profile.
Second,you're right,I didn't read all the post on the 2nd page and I jumped to a conclusion,but his original post sure sounded to me like he was a heavy renter who was just looking to increase his profit margin.

 

[Towncrier]

KNWVIKING - You're welcome. I just had a DIS birthday and got lots of well wishes over on the Community Board. I hope that my criticism wasn't too harsh. There seem to have been a lot of harsh words here on the DVC board, so much so that I've stayed pretty much out of the controversy de jour. So when I do visit, I throw gasoline on the flames (ok - maybe kerosene). I haven't yet met StephenKay, but we are planning to get together at OKW on July 23rd. Since he is in Europe, I figured that he might not be able to post a timely reply to your thread, so I stuck my nose where it doesn't belong to defend him. I'm glad that there are no hard feelings. Besides, we Gemini's have to stick together.

 

[DisneyKidds]

I have only rented once for a trip this Nov. I hope it works out ok.

I would not have considered renting at $13.50 per point. Having paid $10 a point I am paying an average of $140 a night for a studio at VWL. Yes, this is a good deal. But at $13.50 it would be almost $190 a night. There are a lot of other options on property that are less than $190 a night - some deluxe, some not. I could have gotten the same room for slightly more than this with my DC discount. I also had ressies for AKL and BC for less. In a lot of cases people are not going to be willing to pay the premium for a deluxe, or they may take a sure ressie for the deluxe at a couple dollars more and may take their money elsewhere.

There is also the uncertainty factor - everyone involved is taking somewhat of a risk and I believe that is reflected in the price.

I don't want to see any members lose money. But in the majority of cases that is probably not the issue. If renting points that wouldn't otherwise be used you are simply getting a return on your sunk cost. The renter gets a good deal. It's a win-win situation.

My dw and I are currently considering purchasing DVC. I've been lurking these boards for a while trying to learn as much as I can, and I thank you all for your knowledge. If we had points we couldn't use or bank we would consider renting them out. If that happened we'd be happy to get the going rate - whatever that may be - and the market will ultimately determine that.

For someone who wants $13.50 a point - advertise them for that and see if you rent them - maybe you'll start a market trend.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[nuthut]

Renting for 13-15$ a point is no problem. Been doing it for five years. Try ebay, it has returned up to $24 a point to me. Owners who rent for $10 a point are just financing someone elses vacation and it is sure nice of them to do that!!

 

[dvc1995]

So why do we think we can routinely get $13.50 a point? An offer to rent out points at $9 a point has been posted for quite awhile with no apparent takers.

 

[TrudyZ]

DVC1995,

I am not sure where you are getting your information--but I believe you are incorrect on your facts.

There was one post for $9 pp that was listed--it is now posted that the points were rented.

I just listed my points for $9 pp (points expire 10/1/01) late last night and had a response for them in less than 24 hours (now working on finding available reservations). Even if I cannot find a suitable reservation for the first person inquiring about them, I expect them to be gone soon.

Just because you see 0 responses on the boards to a rental notice does not mean they are not rented---all of my inquiries were via direct emails.

Trudy

 

[grumpy-duck]

First, let me say that we just returned from our first use as DVC members and spent some time one afternoon at the pool discussing how we would use our points for the next couple years (if anything we would not be selling any points and would probably be looking to buy some, maybe a lot). Having said that I disagree with richy. It did not sound to me like anyone was trying to make a "business" out of selling points. It seems a stretch to come to that conclusion.

Second, just because something has always been done a certain way ($10/point) does not mean that it is correct any longer - someone could talk until they are blue in the face to me about why the price should stay the same, but prices go up on other services (certainly hotel prices increased each time I went to Disney and stayed on Disney property before joining DVC). As one person said the price to buy into DVC has gone up (twice I believe since we bought just six months ago). For this reason alone we should expect more (this does not mean we will get more, however) when points are sold. If richy has been successful in living the same lifestyle the last few years and has been able to do it without any increased costs I would love to know his secret. Inflation has been moderate, but it has not been zero.

I'm not in favor of making a stand and suggesting that no one sell points for under a certain dollar amount, but am a strong believer in market efficiency. If the market says the price should remain at $10 then so be it. I did not buy into DVC to make money. On the other hand, if the market says the price should be something higher than $10 - who are we to disagree?

Third, I don't understand the comment that we would in some way be hurt if prices were higher than $10 as suggested by richy. How does a change due to market forces in some way harm us?

Lastly, the original poster suggesting $13.50/point obviously wants to get a price higher than $10/point. Nothing wrong with that and he should consider using ebay as suggested above.

Any comments would be welcome.

 

[Mic]

I have read with interest the points made in this thread, but refrained from commenting until now. I agree, to some extent, with almost every post, as I am sure many people do. I doubt many of us "rent" our points out on a regular basis, and it seems the folks that do are not treated very nicely for whatever reason. I had a terrific experience with a point transfer from another DVC member, and many posters have said the same thing about rentals and tranfers. Why does anyone care what someone does or how much they charge per point? I once offered to rent points at $11 per point because I already had the res. for the exact nights someone needed, and I was going to cancel the res., as we moved our trip up by a month. I am sure someone else could rent for less, but I can't. The same point I was offering for $11 cost me $14.52 this year(yes, I financed...not proud of it, but circumstances left little choice) and would be worth more than $11 to me for my own personal use. I love Disney, and truly wanted to give someone the opportunity to go. As has been pointed out, DVC prices have gone up twice in 6 months, and I don't think the rental fee per point has seen such an increase. Newer members, like me, paid quite a bit more than members who were smart enough to buy in early in the program, so I could see where they may feel that $10 a point is not a fair return. There are many people now selling their interest in DVC for (gasp) more than what they paid for it 5-8 years ago, after benefitting from it during those years to boot, and they are not attacked for doing so. I don't think I should assume that the original poster wanted to drive up the price of point rentals as much as he wanted to point out his observation of the situation. I do not know him personally, but my take on his post was merely his attempt at expressing his opinion to his DVC "family" , and he was misunderstood (as happens in most families). Someone who wanted more per point than the going rate can always turn to ebay, as has been pointed out, and done more than once. The original post will not likely impact the price per point on this board at all.

 

[StephenKay]

I am the poster of this question, and only suggested such an increase after I have rented to family in NY (Who are nice people) for 10.50 per point. I had no reason to rent points when I joined in Dec 00 but due to military comitments I rented our first years 222 points because we were at the time unable to find the time for a Disney vacation. I have merely posed the question to stimulate "the points increase buying versus the rental stable 10 bucks a point issue."

I ask this:

As a DVC Member paying annual dues of 600 $ what is the problem of renting to cover costs?

I do not wish to seek a profit, I do wish to remove some of the free loaders who do not wish to join but insist on a deluxe resort at budget accomodation prices.

If you do not wish to rent @ 13.50 then I suggest you should seek either to join DVC and pay the same cost as I do and you share the same amenities as the members.

I did not mean this post to "get out of hand" but it is obvious some people are trying to get something for virtually nothing, when the points cost is spiralling out of hand it is only right to reflect this on to the consumer in some way.


Freedom of speech is our right.



Stevie Kay
Inverness
Scotland

 

[Tiggeriffic]

I don't see why people on both sides of this issue think other people are trying to coerce them. Either forcing the rental cost higher or that someone is trying to get something for virtually nothing.

In order to rent points you need both parties to agree on the price. If the member renting the points sets the price too high, then they will probably have a difficult time getting someone to rent them. If someone is looking to rent points from a member for an extremely low cost, they will have a difficult time.

I personally expect that the cost to rent points will go up over time. If renting points out at $10 a point was a good deal 2 years ago, then if room prices have gone up by 20%, it would seem that it would still be a good deal if the cost to rent points went up by %20. Some people will find that as the cost to rent points goes too high that they will get a "better" deal by trying for various discounts other ways or by staying at a different hotel. ("Better" here is subjective based on the perceived value to the purchaser.) That is all part of the free market economy.

BTW, I have neither rented my points or rented points from anyone else. However, I may do either in the future, if I perceive that its a fair deal.

 

[Towncrier]

I think that StephenKay's point is well taken. When points cost $50 each and annual dues were under $3/point, $10 per point was a good deal for both renter and rentee. Now that points are approaching $75 each and annual dues have increased (slightly), it only makes sense that the de facto $10/point rental fee would have to increase to match inflation. But that hasn't happened. I guess that the bottom line is that if you decide to rent your points, it's between you and the person your rent your points to as to how much to charge/pay for points since this is not regulated by DVC.

 

[DisneyKidds]

I'm sure StephenKay did not intend to imply that all non DVC members who rent points are "free loaders".

We are not DVC members. We have stayed at deluxe, moderate, and value resorts. We havce paid various rates including rack, DC, SOG. We discovered the opportunity to rent DVC points for our Nov trip.

We are like most people who vacation at WDW and look to obtain the most value for our dollar. To that end, we are considering DVC ownership.

People who rent points are simply purchasing something that people have made available. I doubt there is much negotiation over price when this occurs. Someone offered me points at $10. I chose to accept. I did not go out looking for something for nothing. If I was offered points at $11, $12, $13.... I would weigh the cost against other options and reserve whatever gave me the most value for my dollar. In my case $13.50 would not have made sense as I had better deluxe options that would have provided more value for my dollar.

Just had to put my 2 cents in. Bottom line is that the laws of economics and supply and demand will determine what the market price will be for points. Right now it seems to be $10. Will it be more at some point? - probably. When? - who knows. Will I rent again? - depends on this first experience, whether we buy DVC, and if the rental price makes economic sense. I will never, however, be a free loader looking for someone to give me something for nothing.

Now - off my soapbox.