12-year-old boy dies on Disney's Rock'n'Roller coaster at Disney-MGM studios!!!

[pugdog]

This is an excellent point-AED's are becoming the gold standard for cardiac arrest...I believe one shock is equal to 2 minutes of CPR.

They are becoming more of a gold standard in CPR but by no means equal 2 minutes of CPR.
What a heart needs that is in Vfib or VT is a shock, no amount of CPR will reverse that. It is an electrical problem that needs to be fixed. CPR only keeps the blood flowing UNTIL you can shock the heart.
Just remember that NO CPR and NO shock = no survival. Immidiate CPR with a delayed shock increases your odds of survival. But the longer that you don't shock the heart even with good CPR the worse the outcome is.
SO everyone go learn CPR and how to use an AED and then bother the crap out of businesses to get AED placed everywhere.
Also since 80% of all cardiac arrests are in the home call and write your local officials to place them in EVERY fire truck and police car since in most towns THEY are the first responders.

 

[mjgruber]

It is very upsetting to see this story. I can't imagine what the parents must be feeling and I would never want to go through what they have...but man, what a place to go! I suppose if I were to die, WDW would be the place I would want to go. Then I'd will my spirit to haunt the place...not scary but, just so I can ride all the rides. I can only hope that his last moments were fun and enjoyable ones. Hopefully it was instant with no pain.

"But Man, what a place to go?" Your post was Distasteful.....hopefully you were medicated when you wrote it..or you have some serious Issues.....I feel bad for your Kids...p.s. everyone...read the quote under his name

 

[mjgruber]

Ok-that's a little over the top. People with children are NOT the only people capable of compassion or looking beyond themselves. That's a sweeping generalization that has no place in reality.

Yes, I feel sorry for the CM's TOO. Can you imagine going to your job today and having a child die in front of your eyes and not being able to prevent it??
And then having to go back to that job tomorrow? I feel sorry for the EMT's that came on the scene, the other guests in the area at the time-everyone involved is deserving of compassion. Yes, the loss that this family has experienced is off the scale, but having compassion for the family doesn't mean that you don't have any left for anyone else involved.

Just a thought-the next time someone makes a comment like that Planned Parenthood thing, can we just all ignore it ? If we engage in a debate, we're doing exactly what they wanted. It was off-topic and should be treated as such.

and, technically, your comment to ignore their comment was Off-topic....Which technically means i am now off topic

 

[HopperFan]

In Georgia, after a number of teen athlete deaths (from heart issues, especially enlarged hearts), one family of a high school boy pushed through for the extensive physical exam forms, which also ask many questions aimed at checking for potential heart issues. They also worked hard so there is a group which comes to schools and performs heart scans for $58 (normally $1000-1500 and insurance will not pay). They are read by doctors and you are flagged if they find anything. These tests have picked up a number of kids with potential problems every time they have a test day. These kids are very lucky to have had these problems found and referrals. No regular physicals would pick up these problems.....we are fortunate to have this program to screen these athletes (and most schools open it to non-athletes as well, and middle school students) for a nominal fee. Both my kids have had them done because their medical history has flags and they participate in a an endurance sport. I wonder if any other states have this type of program for their middle/high students ?

http://smartheartscans.com/recent.asp Some of these percentages suggest that this type of testing should be more common. And we know the costs can be kept reasonable for all. Their site is very informative.

We also have seen a big increase in the number of AED machines in our schools and parks. Students as well as staff are being trained in their use.

 

[pamouselover]

I understand your thoughts but when the situation pretends to a 12 year old boy who has not lived life completely yet, it was disrespectful.
I am assuming you don’t have children.

It is very upsetting to see this story. I can't imagine what the parents must be feeling and I would never want to go through what they have...but man, what a place to go! I suppose if I were to die, WDW would be the place I would want to go. Then I'd will my spirit to haunt the place...not scary but, just so I can ride all the rides. I can only hope that his last moments were fun and enjoyable ones. Hopefully it was instant with no pain.

 

[Thinktinknpixiedust]

I agree whole heartedly...

This is a harsh statement! I have 3 kids and if I knew any of them had a condition that should prevent them from riding any ride, disney or not, I wouldn't allow them to ride. I am sure this is true of the majority of the parents out there.

 

[madfordonald]

I understand your thoughts but when the situation pretends to a 12 year old boy who has not lived life completely yet, it was disrespectful.
I am assuming you don’t have children.

Come on people...I said "I" in the whole post! I didn't say my kids...I didn't say I was glad this child died there, I said "I". Quit making something out of nothing.
I do believe I expressed that I felt terrible about this and bad for his family. And as for my quote under my name, I believe it is funny. It is a quote from a radio personality...not my own personal feelings. Heck, I have maybe one drink a month. Please get a grip and don't wear your emotions on your sleeve. But, if it makes you feel better to blow off some steam over this tragedy by using me, fine. I still wish the best for his family and all of you.

 

[luvthemouse71]

They are becoming more of a gold standard in CPR but by no means equal 2 minutes of CPR.
What a heart needs that is in Vfib or VT is a shock, no amount of CPR will reverse that. It is an electrical problem that needs to be fixed. CPR only keeps the blood flowing UNTIL you can shock the heart.
Just remember that NO CPR and NO shock = no survival. Immidiate CPR with a delayed shock increases your odds of survival. But the longer that you don't shock the heart even with good CPR the worse the outcome is.
SO everyone go learn CPR and how to use an AED and then bother the crap out of businesses to get AED placed everywhere.
Also since 80% of all cardiac arrests are in the home call and write your local officials to place them in EVERY fire truck and police car since in most towns THEY are the first responders.

Maybe you misunderstood the way I phrased my post? I meant that you're better off getting shocked with the AED as soon as possible opposed to focusing on CPR exclusively. And as far as the one shock equaling 2 minutes of CPR-this is what we were told in CPR class-meaning that the AED is more "efficient". This makes sense since CPR is prone to user error(and the fatiguing of the person performing the CPR) and the AEDs are pretty user friendly. Tells you where to place the pads, it determines if the patient needs a shock to begin with, it walks you through the whole process. I have the quote about the AED equaling 2 minutes of CPR, I'll look through my notes and post it.

 

[pugdog]

Maybe you misunderstood the way I phrased my post? I meant that you're better off getting shocked with the AED as soon as possible opposed to focusing on CPR exclusively. And as far as the one shock equaling 2 minutes of CPR-this is what we were told in CPR class-meaning that the AED is more "efficient". This makes sense since CPR is prone to user error(and the fatiguing of the person performing the CPR) and the AEDs are pretty user friendly. Tells you where to place the pads, it determines if the patient needs a shock to begin with, it walks you through the whole process. I have the quote about the AED equaling 2 minutes of CPR, I'll look through my notes and post it.

Ok here is my back ground in CPR, for the last 10 years I have been an instructor trainer for the AHA. That means that I teach people how to teach you. If any of the instructors have questions they come to me. And an instructor for 5 years before that. I have been certified in CPR for the last 27 years.

The AED is the only definitive way to get someone out of cardiac arrest. It is not a more efficent way to do CPR. If you remember during your class they should have talked about the survival chain.

1. early ativation of EMS, calling 911.
2. Early BLS which is starting CPR ASAP.
3. Early use of the AED
4. Early ALS, which is using cardiac drugs

If any of these don't happen the survival rate drops alot.

Basically when you do CPR all you are doing is maintaining blood flow to the heart and brain until the AED shows up, and later on drugs. It is the shock that brings them back to live NOT the CPR. But you MUST do CPR until the AED shows up otherwise the shock might be worthless as brain damage has already happened.

Aed's are the most efficent within the first 3-5 minutes after arrest. If you can get it one during that time there is a 90% chance that only one shock is needed to convert. Even after the shock the heart is still very irratible and now needs advanced cardiac drugs to "calm" it down so it won't go out again. But you can prolong this window by doing CPR.

So the take home message is activate EMS ASAP, start CPR ASAP, get an AED placed ASAP and then let the paramedics take over when they get there. Doing only CPR or only using the AED most likely will not save the person, unless the responce time by the paramedics is very good. But the national average responce time in big cities is 6 to 10 minutes, longer in rural times. And as I said above the prime time to shock is 3-5 minutes. But by doing GOOD CPR you can prolong the shock time by a couple minutes giving the person a fighting chance.

So, everyone get trained in the use of the AED and CPR. Go to the American Heart or Red Cross websites and find a local class. Less then 10% of the public is currently trained in CPR, it needs to be higher.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Pugdog.....excellent explanation. I'm an RN and have been certified in CPR for close to 18 years. I'd have to say, your explanation matches perfectly what I've heard in my recert classes.

 

[tink1978]

Well some of the other ppl who have died on disney rides had conditions that they and their families were unaware of..My heart really goes out to this family, I cant imagine what they must be going thru right now. I am interested to see what the autopsy says about this poor boy, I think its very harsh to say the parents didnt pay attention to the warnings, maybe they had no idea anything was wrong?!

Right....but they were found to have a pre-existing condition(s). Yearly physicals don't check for hardly anything....you have to have specialized tests to check for these types of conditions. Either way, it's not the rides fault, nor is it Disney's. People with pre-existing conditions could die riding in their car, or walking down the street. Unfortunately, it happened on a Disney ride that brought the issue to light. I am sorry that the family is going through this and hope that they will be able to find peace at some time.

 

[pugdog]

The following text is from Circulation, the Journal of the American Heart Association.

Early defibrillation is critical to survival from sudden cardiac arrest (SCA) for several reasons: (1) the most frequent initial rhythm in witnessed SCA is ventricular fibrillation (VF), (2) the treatment for VF is electrical defibrillation, (3) the probability of successful defibrillation diminishes rapidly over time, and (4) VF tends to deteriorate to asystole within a few minutes.

Several studies have documented the effects of time to defibrillation and the effects of bystander CPR on survival from SCA. For every minute that passes between collapse and defibrillation, survival rates from witnessed VF SCA decrease 7% to 10% if no CPR is provided. When bystander CPR is provided, the decrease in survival rates is more gradual and averages 3% to 4% per minute from collapse to defibrillation. CPR can double or triple survival from witnessed SCA at most intervals to defibrillation.

If bystanders provide immediate CPR, many adults in VF can survive with intact neurologic function, especially if defibrillation is performed within about 5 minutes after SCA. CPR prolongs VF (ie, the window of time during which defibrillation can occur) and provides a small amount of blood flow that may maintain some oxygen and substrate delivery to the heart and brain. Basic CPR alone, however, is unlikely to eliminate VF and restore a perfusing rhythm.

 

[tink1978]

Great point.
I just wonder when one of the reports come back about one of these sad losses that there is no pre-existing condition, what people will say. Preobably that it's fate.

It may not have been a preexisting condition, you're right, but he could have been dehydrated or something else. This can cause weakness and then when you get on a ride that has a tremendous amount of pressure, it could harm you or kill you. However, it is still some sort of illness, most people don't just pass away from nothing. If it was the ride at fault, I would think many more people would have passed away on it. Can we not just say that some things are tragic and not place blame???? No one, the parents, the child, Disney, or the ride are at fault. Sometimes things just happen.....the family is in my prayers.

 

[tink1978]

1st let me say that disney is visited by MILLIONS and MILLIONS of ppl each year, from all walks of life and HEALTH histories. the problem is because it is the most *magical* place on earth, it draws more attention to the unfortunate situation. with out an extensive physical there would be no way anyone would have known something was wrong with this child ahead of time. with no type of cardiac (which is what I assume occured) symptoms no doctor would put a child through a stress test or anything of the kind.

with that said....

I think that ALL PEOPLE of able body and mind should be taught CPR. all CPR courses now include training on how to USE AED's. Although its not quite as fancy as you see on TV, it can still help save someones life or at least sustain life until trained persons can arrive.

the AHA has changed some things about CPR this past year, so if has been awhile since you were trained, a refresher course would be a good idea.

DISNEY should have an AED on EVERY RIDE, not just intense ones, you never know when something is going to happen, and you should not have to run a mile to find something that could possible save someones life.


JMO,

Thanks,
Charles

I agree that AED's should be on all attractions, whether or not they have a higher risk factor. You never know when a guest walking onto or off a ride may have a heart attack, etc. It would not cost much for Disney and that way if something happens, they can be prepared and do as much as they can instead of feeling helpless (I am sure that some CM's and especially family members feel this way when something goes wrong medically).

 

[pamouselover]

You posted your remarks under a under a 12 old boy dies thread.
I did understand what you meant, but thought it was not something you should post on this thread,with this begin a topic about a young boy who did not live his life out yet. It was a mistake. I don't think Disney world would be my favorite place in the world anymore if my DS die on a ride there.

Come on people...I said "I" in the whole post! I didn't say my kids...I didn't say I was glad this child died there, I said "I". Quit making something out of nothing.
I do believe I expressed that I felt terrible about this and bad for his family. And as for my quote under my name, I believe it is funny. It is a quote from a radio personality...not my own personal feelings. Heck, I have maybe one drink a month. Please get a grip and don't wear your emotions on your sleeve. But, if it makes you feel better to blow off some steam over this tragedy by using me, fine. I still wish the best for his family and all of you.

 

[Goofy4]

Are Florida "Good Samaritan" laws favorable for placing AEDs where they likely could be used (or conversely, not used) by untrained CMs or guests? I would hope so.

 

[pugdog]

Are Florida "Good Samaritan" laws favorable for placing AEDs where they likely could be used (or conversely, not used) by untrained CMs or guests? I would hope so.

Good Samaritan laws generaly cover you for something that you have been trained in. So if a hospital aid tries to intubate someone on the street that would not be covered because that is not in their scope of care. where for me it would be covered since I have been trained how to do that. So in a way technically putting on an AED without training might not be covered. But on the other hand since they are so user friendly and they will only give a shock when the person is technically dead you might be covered. It's really a grey area, because if you don't use it they will die and AED's really are quite idiot proof so do you really need training when the machine tells you what to do.
Any lawyers want to chime in?

 

[snowbunny]

You can't make a thrill ride for millions of visitors and not have a bad reaction from someone.

Apologies if this question has been posted somewhere in this long thread, but - when was the last time someone died at Universal?
Certainly not seven in 18 months as at WDW.

 

[Goofy4]

Apologies if this question has been posted somewhere in this long thread, but - when was the last time someone died at Universal?
Certainly not seven in 18 months as at WDW.

Apparently, not many: http://www.rideaccidents.com/

I imagine Universal has some demographics working in its favor when compared to Disney (for the purpose of this discussion) -- making the difference not a surprising as it might seem.

 

[ww52]

Thanks for the link, Goofy4. It's a bit tough to plow through the pages though and figure out which are from Universal. And as you implied, the real figure to compare is deaths (or even reportable incidents) per number of visitors.

By the way, I was away for a while and just came back to this thread. Notthat it matters much, but many pages back I said "Disney will probably never make a ride that intense again" and someone responded that RnRC was not very intense. I agree - I was referring o Mission Space but did not make that point clear enough.