$110,000 in Debt (college)

[disney4us2002]

Of course no one knew about the economy Joisey but once again it goes back to when do you simply say "no". Heck, I went to college in the 70's. The conversation was extremely simply with my parents. It went along these lines.

Mom/dad: Eliza here is what we can afford to pay.
Me: I want to go to Princeton
Mom/Dad: We cannot afford the tuition for Princeton even with financial aide, pick another school.

And thus endth my visions of Princeton. No way would my parents have cosigned bubuskas. Plain and simple, we cannot afford Princeton and I was getting an academic scholarship.

My kids didn't even need "the conversation". we only visited schools we could comfortably afford. Period. Why would I go to an Open house at farleigh dickerson when the tuition is 45K a year?

Sorry Mrs Levine but you knew going into it that you could not afford that University.

I guess I'm confused as to why the parents didn't just say no. Obviously, an 18 yr old could choose to go ahead but co-signing? It would never happen here. I'm all for helping my kids reach their goals/dreams but it has to be something reasonable. My oldest is getting ready to graduate with a BS and we completely paid for all of it. He has no loans, no debt, not even a car note. He's looking at grad school now and realizes just how lucky he is as he will be paying for that if he goes. My next son is a senior is hs and is preparing for college. Like Eliza, we didn't even tour schools that were crazy expensive and we knew we wouldn't be able to afford.

Perhaps the parents of these kids that allow this kind of student debt to incur are just as "wowed" as their students and proud to tell people their son/daughter goes to XYZ big name school???

 

[allison443]

What is not to understand? Jenna made a mistake, and so did her parents. WHen she was 18 she had an her dream her vision, and she convinced her parents. Also, who knew that the economy was going to crash the way it did.

It's a shame that her parents didn't just say no to cosigning the loans.
I know many kids in my kids' high school who "ended up" at Rutgers or TCNJ strictly for financial considerations.

It's unfortunate, because the writer of that article made a smart decision to attend community college for two years, and apparently she worked full time while doing so. But then she made a very poor decision. I think it's brave of her to put it out there. It's a good warning to people.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

Interesting article, but did anyone else find the writing to be just awful?! It's barely readable in some sections.

 

[katie26]

It doesn't necessarily take a "name" school to produce a crippling amount of student loan debt. I went to a state school (the state where I lived, so I paid the lower resident tuition) for undergrad and law school and graduated with $100K in student loan debt. My particular law school alma mater is known as a public interest law school, so most of our graduates go into low-paid - though highly rewarding - legal jobs. (Prosecutors, public defenders, legal aid lawyers and so on.)

I really do think that everyone I spoke with rationalized and normalized the massive amount of debt. The folks that I interacted with all had this attitude of "hey, everyone has student loans! It's totally normal to have six figures of educational debt at 25!" And I think we all just figured that our monthly repayment amounts would be relatively small - at least in comparison to our salaries.

I don't even recall entrance interviews for financial aid - and our exit interviews went like this:

Counselor: You owe $104,034. You're gonna repay that over the next 30 years of your life. You're gonna pay it back, right?
Student: *nods*
Counselor: Good.

I really, really wish that someone had sat me down and broken down the numbers for me. Like, "Listen, a legal aid lawyer in a big city can expect to take home about $3,000 a month after taxes. Your student loan's monthly bill is going to be $1200, which leaves you $1800 for rent, gas, electric, transportation, food, entertainment, and maintaining a professional wardrobe. You still wanna be a lawyer?"

I'm not trying to abdicate responsibility here - I am paying my student loans, and I know that I'm the one who made the decision - as an adult - to take them and be responsible for them. I just think there should be a lot more practical, concrete counseling on the front end. It's easy as an 18 year old who has never had to pay rent or bills or buy a week's worth of groceries to just *assume* that like, every grownup job pays you enough money for all of that stuff and more! By the time you realize it doesn't, it is waaay too late.

 

[ShanPooh]

It's a shame that her parents didn't just say no to cosigning the loans.
I know many kids in my kids' high school who "ended up" at Rutgers or TCNJ strictly for financial considerations.

Wow, poor things "ended up" at Rutgers - really slumming there

 

[eliza61]

I really do think that everyone I spoke with rationalized and normalized the massive amount of debt. The folks that I interacted with all had this attitude of "hey, everyone has student loans! It's totally normal to have six figures of educational debt at 25!" And I think we all just figured that our monthly repayment amounts would be relatively small - at least in comparison to our salaries.

I don't even recall entrance interviews for financial aid - and our exit interviews went like this:

Counselor: You owe $104,034. You're gonna repay that over the next 30 years of your life. You're gonna pay it back, right?
Student: *nods*
Counselor: Good.

I really, really wish that someone had sat me down and broken down the numbers for me. Like, "Listen, a legal aid lawyer in a big city can expect to take home about $3,000 a month after taxes. Your student loan's monthly bill is going to be $1200, which leaves you $1800 for rent, gas, electric, transportation, food, entertainment, and maintaining a professional wardrobe. You still wanna be a lawyer?"

I'm not trying to abdicate responsibility here - I am paying my student loans, and I know that I'm the one who made the decision - as an adult - to take them and be responsible for them. I just think there should be a lot more practical, concrete counseling on the front end. It's easy as an 18 year old who has never had to pay rent or bills or buy a week's worth of groceries to just *assume* that like, every grownup job pays you enough money for all of that stuff and more! By the time you realize it doesn't, it is waaay too late.

But that's the difference. the Author in the very first paragraph states that she knew she could not afford the university. Her parents advised her and tried to discourage her from taking out the loans. She chose to do so any way.

 

[allison443]

Wow, poor things "ended up" at Rutgers - really slumming there

That's why I put it in quotes!!! I was referring to the writer's attitude that Rutgers wasn't good enough for her! Definitely not disparaging either of those schools.

 

[ShanPooh]

That's why I put it in quotes!!! I was referring to the writer's attitude that Rutgers wasn't good enough for her! Definitely not disparaging either of those schools.

Oh, that's good I was wondering since Rutgers has a top-notch MLS program (and other great programs). I'm not familiar with TCNJ - oh wait, looked it up - old Trenton State (gosh I'm getting old!).
In this day and age, I think an affordable undergrad degree is the best!

Did anyone see the new ecard on someecards?
It said "A bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma."
DH and I have been saying that for about 12 years now!

Not sure why the parents of the author didn't put their feet down. I bet a lot of us here went where it was affordable and not our first choice college. I'm already researching affordable schools, online courses, and post-secondary option for my kiddos (and they are only 6 and 9!)

 

[MomToOne]

My daughter is only 10, but she already knows that I will pay for her college completely, assuming the following:

1. She has to live at home. It's not "fun", but I did the same while I went to college and suffered no long term trauma from it!
2. She goes to a local Community College for the first 2 years. There's one literally right down the street from our house that seems the logical one to go to, but any in the area are fine (we have several)
3. She goes to one of the two local state universities for the second 2 years. She can pick the one that ends up fitting her major best. They are both within daily driving distance.
4. She gets out of college in 4 years - well, maybe I'll give her 5, but more than that and forget it.

Now, it's definitely not the most exciting way to get a college degree, but it will get her there, which is really what matters. I think by starting to talk about it now, she will not have unrealistic expectations when she gets to application time - heck, I'm not even going to pay the application fee for any colleges I know I can't afford up front (and trust me, I'll research the tuition before I make out the application check)!!

 

[Leshaface]

Really enjoyed this article, thanks OP for posting!!

I soooo wished my DH did what I did and started at a Community College, then went forward to a University...he (we) owe close to $40,000 for his student loans while we owe nothing for mine.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

A near and dear friend went to a "name brand" school for her 5 year architecture program. She graduated with $175,000 in debt in 2007.

She has been unemployed for 2 years (unemployment just ran out). She realized a few days ago that she has only been paying the interest on her student loans. Her payment should be $1300 a month.

She has no clue what her next step needs to be- obviously she needs a job of some kind to pay that kind of bill but she's reexamining her little girl dream of going into architecture. She's finally realizing the crisis she is in.

If that was me, I would have been freaking out 2 years ago.

Wow, I always thought that architecture paid well I'm an engineer and I assumed that architects made about the same as engineers...maybe not though

Our girls have fully funded Florida Prepaid tuition plans including fees and housing. They also have 529 plans to cover the expenses not covered by the prepaid plan (books, meal plan, etc.). My sister said something to me about them "only" being able to go to a Florida public college. First of all, UF is the #2 public college in the country, and second of all, undergrad is the new high school. They can go to a big-name grad school with whatever is left in their 529's if they so choose (and loans, I assume). However, they will come out of undergrad with a degree and no debt. I think that they'd prefer that to going to Harvard and having $110K in loans, KWIM?

 

[JoiseyMom]

Am I reading the article correctly? Is that debt JUST from her 2 years at American University (plus one extra semester)? At least she went to the community college for the first 2 years.

Maggie

Yes, it is just from her 2 1/2 years at AU. The CC she went to she paid as she went.

 

[JoiseyMom]

I smell a spoiled rotten kid.

I was 18, inner city poor (as in government cheese, living on my grandmother's social security check, living in her house that she bought in 1948 and was the only one still standing on the block DIRT POOR) and looked at college when my grandmother died my senior year of high school.

I busted my butt in high school, got scholarships and got into my second choice, private four year university. Sallie Mae, the "Seductress" made it extremely clear exactly how much SLs cost, exactly when you repaid them, and alternatives to financing college for the amount that scholarships did not cover. I worked 40 hours a week, took a full load, and tried to avoid as much debt as possible. I was accepted into a program to study abroad but learned I would have to take out loans. As bad as I wanted to go, and as much as I thought it would change my life, I passed on it BECAUSE I COULD NOT AFFORD IT. I was not entitled to it, it hurt to see my friends going, but I was well aware of the reality of the situation.

I am sorry, but she had to go through debt counseling before they gave her the check. In 1995 when I took out my first SL, they told me EXACTLY how long it would take to repay and how much I would pay interest. I managed to get a $100k education for less thank $20k in loans.

I moved my little sister up to college in 2009. We sat through a LONG session with a one on one school counselor on financing college. She had to do the same thing, debt calculators, etc before they gave her the (small) check. She is working 30 hours a week and struggling, but has not taken out more than $8k so far, and she too is at a private performing arts college.

My bet is that Jenna stuck her spoiled head in the ground and chose not to deal with it. And now she is complaining, probably tapped out on credit, and can't finance the life style she wants. She is playing such the victim, she could not get grants, she can't get the job she dreamed of, she can't afford a car or a house, she has to work two jobs because the economy sucks, Sallie Mae won't consolidate, wah wah wah...

She needs to take some personal responsibility. She made poor choices, deal with it. Pay it off and consider it her real education.

Off my soapbox now (and I normally LOVE HuffPost too!).

Harsh, judgemental MUCH? Get off your soapbox!

Jenna may have made some wrong choices, but she is not a spoiled rotten brat! ANd yes, I know her personally, I have known here since middle school. She is a very good friend of one of my DS's. She is not playing the victim...she is giving out some sage advice. She is saying I was stupid, don't do what I did, it isn't worth it! She is dealing with it, but paying off her debt and taking jobs that she doesn't want, but that pay her bills! She is doing the resposible thing!

ANd just because you were told about the debt doesn't mean everyone else was. My DS had scholarships, grants and loans. I remember being there for papers and talks when he was an incoming freshman (he was 17, so we had to be there), and even for me, a college educated women, things were confusing.

I hope others can learn from her mistake, which is what she wanted. Attacks like your post are just a waste of time.

I personally want to send this to my DD bff. She wants to be a kindergarten teacher, but plans on going to Princeton . Now, knowing her parents, I have a feeling it is their idea.

 

[JoiseyMom]

But that's the difference. the Author in the very first paragraph states that she knew she could not afford the university. Her parents advised her and tried to discourage her from taking out the loans. She chose to do so any way.

Yes, but she also, albeit wrongly, thought she would have a great job to help pay off the loans.

 

[disykat]

Okay. Now I get it - this was supposed to be a "I'm proud of this young lady who has learned a hard lesson" post. How on earth were we supposed to know that? You gave no indication that you knew this girl in your original post.

I assumed it was just another random person who didn't seem to get that loans had to be paid back and answered accordingly.

I guess I can see that there might be people who can benefit from her advice because you sure hear about a lot of people who don't seem to know better. Unfortunately, some people just need to learn their lessons the hard way.

 

[mistysue]

It's good that she learned from her mistakes. Unfortunately, looking in from the outside, I think that the article pushes the idea that it is Sally Mae's fault. I think that factor alone stops the article from actually being helpful. After reading it doesn't come across as "stay within your means" but rather as "banks are trying to screw you and it's not fair" - which is more like a rant than an offering of sage advice. Personally knowing her might cloud that.

 

[JoiseyMom]

Okay. Now I get it - this was supposed to be a "I'm proud of this young lady who has learned a hard lesson" post. How on earth were we supposed to know that? You gave no indication that you knew this girl in your original post.

I assumed it was just another random person who didn't seem to get that loans had to be paid back and answered accordingly.

I guess I can see that there might be people who can benefit from her advice because you sure hear about a lot of people who don't seem to know better. Unfortunately, some people just need to learn their lessons the hard way.

No, it has nothing to do with that. I thought that the advice would help people. BUt when I see someone being called a spoiled brat, and I know that not to be true, then I am going to jump in. I don't seen anything wrong with that.

I think her article is a good one and could be helpful for many, which I why I posted it.

Unfortunately most people in life learn lessons the hard way. Yes, she made a mistake, yes her parents helped her with that mistake. What parent is perfect? SHow me one person whose life is perfect and they have made no mistakes? This person doesn't exsist! If someone can learn and be helped from someone else's mistakes...that is a good thing. Someone judging someone's personality and calling them a spoiled brat..that is just stupid..but yes, it is a public forum and all "people" are allowed to have their say.

 

[clarabelle]

Thanks
sending this article to my DD who is starting to think about colleges

 

[MrsPete]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jenna-levine/jenna-levine-26-graduate-_b_823081.html

To all you parents whose kids are getting ready for College...

Hindsight....

Interesting article. I can see how she bought into the idea of her dream school, her dream job . . . and yet made the wrong choices. It's perfectly clear to an impartial observer that she was fooling herself right from the beginning. She didn't have the life experience to know what she was getting into, to know what those loans would mean to her life -- and her parents let her down by cosigning, when they KNEW it was a mistake.

We want to give our kids the world, right???

Sometimes giving our kids the world means NOT giving them exactly what they want for their first four years of adult life. The girl in the article is an example of a family that should've said NO to student debt so that she could've said YES to a life after college.

Yes, but she also, albeit wrongly, thought she would have a great job to help pay off the loans.

That's one of the problems: Everyone THINKS they'll come out of college and make big money right away. The student loan will essentially mean skipping a few meals out, a small sacrafice to have been able to have THE college. Instead, the sacrafice is much more. They buy into the idea of student loans as "good debt".

Also, it's important to note that the article girl hadn't done her homework -- she was under the mistaken impression that she could consolidate all those loans, something that was easy to verify before signing her name. Also, she was caught by surprise when she learned that her university wouldn't accept all her community college credits. That's VERY common and something she should've checked before embarking on this expensive journey.

She assumed that it was okay to do what she really wanted, ignore the financial reality, and it'd all work out somehow. That's rarely true.

 

[peachydreamyxx]

Luckily my financial aid isnt anywhere near as bad, but I still ended up with just under 22k worth of debt to pay off. Ive been kicking myself in the butt since I discovered what I would be paying every month for the next 30 years. The main reason Im so angry with myself is I had the chance to attend a local SUNY college free of charge, AND they were giving me an extra $1800 a year for books, gas, & 'transportation' fees. I gave it up because 'I didnt like the school' . Seriously what I would give to go back and kick my 17 year old selfs butt at this moment.