10k PR advice

[Figment1990]

I know most of the people on this forum are training for halfs or longer, and combo race challenges. However, as the deadlines for proof-of-time approach for the fall 2013/winter 2014 RunDisney races approach, I'm looking for some last minute tips, advice, training suggestions, etc from Coach or any other seasoned racers and I thought I might not be the only one.

When I had to bow out of a 10k back in May, I hung my hat on this upcoming 10k on Sept 29. For W&D it's past the online PoT deadline but fortunately we can still bring proof-of-time to the expo this year.

I've been training well for the half in November, following a modified galloway/higdon training plan with some tempo runs, intervals, magic mile tests, long runs and easy runs, along with some core work and leg strengthening. My W&D half was a 2:51 b/c i stopped for pictures. Had I not done that, i could have finished in at least 2:45. My last MM was 9:20 but my long run pace is closer to 12mm. My 5k PR is 33:43 and I think I'm aiming for around a 1:10 for the 10k. I know it has some uphills. It also has some downhill portions, which scare me more than uphill since I've had knee issues in the past.

So Coach (or anyone) - last minute training thoughts and advice? My long runs between now and the 29th are 8 miles and 9 miles with a speedwork session the week between plus some recovery and tempo runs during the week. What else could/should I be doing?

 

[DoctorK]

I'm not really sure you could improve your performance meaningfully in such a short period of time. The general guideline would be to increase mileage with long slow runs, but that wouldn't apply here. I think you'd be at greater risk of injury.

 

[Figment1990]

I'm not really sure you could improve your performance meaningfully in such a short period of time. The general guideline would be to increase mileage with long slow runs, but that wouldn't apply here. I think you'd be at greater risk of injury.

Hi doc. Let me clarify - I'm not really looking at tips for "how to increase performance" but more of a "how does everyone handle the run up to a 10k race" question. I've not raced a 10k before (only 5ks and half) so I was just curious if anyone has any routines or training plans/tips to share.

Thanks!

 

[DoctorK]

Oh, sorry - I misunderstood.

 

[Figment1990]

Oh, sorry - I misunderstood.

No Problem! Thanks for reading.

 

[jmasgat]

I think your planned long runs are fine. I would do one speedwork session per week up until the race. And keep the tempo runs as well. For a 10k, I would just make your last run before the race an easy one, i.e. only a 1 week taper.

As a reference, I am currently following a 10k plan and my last week before the race is speedwork/short easy run/race.

Maura

 

[pixarmom]

Hello! I'm running the Princess Half in February, and just completed the Disneyland 10K. I did a few 10K training runs and was at about a 9 minute mile for that distance, so I completed it in an average of 56 minutes.

The day of the Disneyland 10K, I was feeling good and hoping for the same so that I could submit a proof of time for the Princess Half. In the end, the crowds made that more difficult than I imagined. Again, I was feeling great the entire race, but it took a while to break free from the crowds. I was able to pick up the pace in the second half when the crowds thinned out a bit and lots of runners were stopping for photos, but that first half was very crowded and there were a ton of Jeff Galloway run/walkers. My official time was 1:03, putting me at about a 10-minute mile instead of my usual 9-minute mile.

In hindsight, I think I could have resolved this with better corral placement. I started the race with my husband and two teens in corral E, which was for those anticipating an 11-minute pace. I wanted to start with them, even though we planned for me to run ahead. Maybe if I started with the other anticipated 9-minute milers, I would have been able to run my regular pace. I knew I would have to zig and zag a bit starting back with my family, but I didn't expect it would be that crowded with so many walkers. So my only advice (and it's limited because I've run a ton of 5Ks, but only one 10K) is to try for a 9-minute mile corral placement.

In the end, I'm still happy that I started the race with my family and I was so excited to cheer for them at the finish line (they ran the 11-minute mile I anticipated they would!) But I'm considering another 10K because I'd really like to submit a proof of time that's more similar to my training runs. On the other hand, I don't want to get too focused on time and I'm not sure whether I could sustain my 9-minute/mile pace for the entire half marathon. So I also welcome advice!

As for the days before the 10K, I started to taper a bit. (OK, part of that was because I was sick!) I usually run every day - 3 miles every day with one 6-mile run per week. In the two weeks before the 10K, I only ran 3 times per week instead and my last long run was four days before the 10K.

 

[cewait]

I think this is what you are looking for....


I love 10’s as I think they are a perfect distance. Long enough so that you have to work hard on pace yet short enough so that you can enter one from a ‘normal’ running base.


Make sure to run 5-10 minutes warming up. You do not want to hit the race with a cold body. Unlike a longer event, you do not want to waste the first mile as the warm up; you want the first mile to be a good mile to base the rest of the run off of. Though, you do not want to hit that mile too hard, either. Based on your 5k time and your current long run pace, you should hit the 70 minute mark or improve on it to some extent.

The great unknown is how the hills will affect your effort. You may want to practice down hill running a little between now and the race. Being a flatlander I am no expert, but what I have found that works is to lean forward from the hips, keep your shoulders back and try to maintain a neutral foot strike on the down.

I would also use one of your long runs as a practice 10k. No reason to not take the 8 mile run and try paring off 35-45 seconds a mile. It will still be a little slower than you planned 10k but still quick enough that you will have a dress rehearsal of the race.

Hope this helps

 

[Diskidatheart]

Figment - I am assuming you are running the Great Race in Pgh on the 29th. I ran this race last year and was concerned about the hills as well. Even though it is a somewhat hilly course, it's still a pretty fast one.

The worst hill is the one that you start at. When you run up Beechwood Blvd and then onto Forbes Ave, it is a fairly steep hill. The good news is that it is at the beginning of the race and your adrenaline will hopefully make you forget that you are running up hill. The next section is down the hill on Forbes into Oakland. This is a pretty steep and long downhill. As coach said, you will want to lean forward a little from your ankles and try to land on your midfoot.

The next section is running through Oakland, which is flat and there is some entertainment here. The last hill you will run is up the Blvd of the Allies. It is a long hill, but it is not very steep (at least for Pgh...others that live in flat areas would disagree highly). Once you peak at that top of that hill, it's all downhill into the city. The sights of the city and running down the middle of the road through the city is awesome and it will help you get through the last mile a bit faster.

To better prepare yourself for the uphill and downhill, try doing hill repeats a few times between now and then. It will get you prepared for the uphill and you can also do repeats going downhill.

One thing to keep in mind is that just because you are going downhill, it doesn't mean that you can go at an all out sprint. I learned this the hard way in my 2nd half marathon this year. The first 3 miles were downhill and I ran about 1 1/2 minutes faster than my normal pace. I was struggling to even walk at the 8 mile marker. I did finish, but it wasn't pretty.

Good luck and enjoy the race. It is a fun race. I'll be there too and hoping to get under 50 minutes. Hopefully it will be a perfect day for a 10k!

 

[Figment1990]

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate the insight. I think one of the things I need to do is map my usual hilly route to get an elevation chart and then compare it to the elevation chart for the race. Which, DisKid - yes, it is the Great Race in pittsburgh! I have some wicked hills around where I live in the west suburbs, but I may even go out and drive around the race course to get a better idea. I'm familar with Oakland and Blvd of the Allies, but the first hill is an unknown to me. Love how they advertise it as a fast and flat course.... they should add a * and footnote it as *for Pittsburgh.

Now I'm also starting to worry a bit about the crowding issue. It's a HUGE race. I should probably have picked something smaller for my PoT effort. Just reading about the corral issues in DL this weekend has me a bit nervous about Princess/Glass Slipper.

Thanks Coach for the warm-up reminder. I completely didn't think of it.

Pixarmom- your DL experience and Princess plan is exactly why I'm working on this PoT. Good luck to you too! I'm also not sure I could sustain a 10k pace for a half but 1) I'm pretty sure they take that into consideration in the calculators and 2) if you plan to stop for any photos, you may be able to maintain a faster pace than you think just because of the "rests" during photo ops.

Maura - 8 days before the race I have a 9-miler planned. Then a couple of 2-3 mile "easy" runs during the week before the 10k. I hope that will be enough of a taper. My W&D long run training has to take priority even if my corral time suffers for it I guess.

Edited to add: I looked up my route and the Great Race route on map my run and I'm feeling a bit better. I was able to figure out which of my normal hills equates to the hills on the race course in terms of incline and I'm feeling much more confident now. Turns out my "easiest" hill is the steepest I'd encounter in the race. I also found a comparable downhill and I'm comfortable with that as well. Whew! LOVE Map my RUN!

 

[FireDancer]

The Great Race in Pittsburgh is still my 10k PR by almost 2 minutes. It is the perfect course to PR on. Unless the course has changed it starts downhill and then has a short hill ascent before being mostly flat or downhill.

The secret to running downhill is to lean a little and don't fight the speed. In both the Great Race and Flying Pig (a half in Cincinnati that also has a steep downhill section) I just sprinted. It was almost like I was just moving my legs to keep from falling forward. At times I was in the low 4:00/mile range which is about 2:00/mile faster than I'd normally be in either a 10k or half.

I'd make sure to get out there and do some runs down steep grade so you are familiar with running it. Uphill work gets all the love but there is a way to run fast downhill without hurting yourself. In my experience most injuries happen when runners try to hold back and either stay upright or lean backwards. It causes the angle at which your foot lands to be far greater then normal and can lead to injury.

Good luck. If you go hard and don't leave any time out there you'll run a much faster time then any flat 10k you run with that course.

 

[Figment1990]

The Great Race in Pittsburgh is still my 10k PR by almost 2 minutes. It is the perfect course to PR on. Unless the course has changed it starts downhill and then has a short hill ascent before being mostly flat or downhill.

The secret to running downhill is to lean a little and don't fight the speed. In both the Great Race and Flying Pig (a half in Cincinnati that also has a steep downhill section) I just sprinted. It was almost like I was just moving my legs to keep from falling forward. At times I was in the low 4:00/mile range which is about 2:00/mile faster than I'd normally be in either a 10k or half.

I'd make sure to get out there and do some runs down steep grade so you are familiar with running it. Uphill work gets all the love but there is a way to run fast downhill without hurting yourself. In my experience most injuries happen when runners try to hold back and either stay upright or lean backwards. It causes the angle at which your foot lands to be far greater then normal and can lead to injury.

Good luck. If you go hard and don't leave any time out there you'll run a much faster time then any flat 10k you run with that course.

Thank you SO much FireDancer! I'm going to add some downhill practice over the next few weeks. My DH (who is also running the race) also thanks you.