10 Reasons You're still broke

[ellochka]

I had my kids expecting I would nurture and love them and meet their needs, Expecting a child to meet an adult's emotional needs is downright wrong. Parenting require a selflessness that few teen are really ready to handle. And the ability to get pregnant when you have no way of supporting said baby is not an accomplishment.

I agree. But remember, for every poor teenager that gets pregnant to look accomplished, there is a woman who is up to her eye-balls in debt and buys a Louis Vuitton bag to look wealthy. Humans are fascinating. Sometimes, not in a good way.

 

[ellochka]

Some facts are tough to take but can't be ignored or the problem will never be solved. In certainly has nothing to do with my lifestyle opinions. I have seen it personally in my own family as well, and it's a hard path to travel for these young girls who often never get out of the hole. You may be an exception, but it's reality and can't be just left out of the equation because it offends a few people.

Also, statistics are saying that you are 100 times more likely to die in a hospital than in a car. So, don't you go to a hospital when you are sick.

Poor women are more likely to never marry than any other group. Single mothers were poor before they had children. Nothing really changed for them.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

But what does single have to do with babies. So if you live in the hood and you know the chances of meeting about with some one you would marry are slim, why would you have a baby by this dude? I hear it all the time with young sistahs that have 3,4,5 babies by different brothers who are long gone. So you call kicking out a kid who has almost a 100% chance of continuing the cycle an accomplishment . Sorry thats the type of mentality we are trying to break them out of. How about this. Stay in school, don't get pregnant, increase your opportunity to better yourself THEN concentrate on getting a man. Lol and yes, if I knew that going to the hospital meant an 80% chance of me dying! guess who would never be stepping into a hospital In Camden and North philly if you are black, teenage mother you have almost an 82% chance of dying in poverty. And this is ok?

Listen, I fully applaud every single mom that is holding it down but I do think we have to acknowledge the very real negative sides to it. For every one successful single mom, there are 6 other sinking. Those are not good odds..

 

[barkley]

You are so on the money.

I work for a hospital in Camden and it's a hard cycle to break with the minority teenage mothers.

Successful young single mother's are not the norm. In my experience I meet on average 2-3 a year. If I'm lucky. The rest you know are just in the never ending cycle of popping out babies with no good boys, no education, on welfare and content with living in poverty and even worse, raising their kids in this never ending cycle.

working for social services in very poor urban city I saw this too-generational welfare families. sadly it was the rare young woman that broke out of the cycle.

I remember in the early 90's when it was theorized that a key contributing factor was the regulations on how public assistance is administered-and that it 'forced' this population to not marry (b/c married or 2 parent households were disadvantaged in qualifying for assistance), so the regulations were changed-by the time I retired years later despite huge p/r reeducation campaigns telling of this change we saw no increase in either marriage or 2 parent households with our clients. it simply was not the mindset of that population.

so many factors go into what creates the mindset of communities/populations of people. the area I grew up in was heavily influenced by the church teachings of 'you don't have sex with someone you're not married to'-as a result when I graduated in '79 a HUGE chunk of my classmates married within a year. 5 years later at our first reunion the bulk of these marriages (and with some-subsequent) had resulted in divorce and single mom households. at our 25th reunion it was not unusual to hear that these moms were helping to raise their single parent grandkids (interestingly-these kids didn't buy into the 'wait for marriage' mantra, but they had lived through their parent's divorces and didn't see marriage or 2 parents in the household as a positive).

 

[Colleen27]

I work for a hospital in Camden and it's a hard cycle to break with the minority teenage mothers.

Successful young single mother's are not the norm. In my experience I meet on average 2-3 a year. If I'm lucky. The rest you know are just in the never ending cycle of popping out babies with no good boys, no education, on welfare and content with living in poverty and even worse, raising their kids in this never ending cycle.

Part of that is the demographic you're working with - if they're successful, how likely is it that they'd stay in Camden? I worked in Detroit when I was younger and saw much the same thing... but it wasn't because no single mom does well for herself, it was because the single moms that did well and weren't living in/near poverty were out in the suburbs and not coming into my office looking for help.

I know quite a few women who had their first child in their teens and live a decent life today. Some have degrees and careers, some just have jobs, and some (myself included) are married and home with the kids. The outcomes for young, single moms with educated parents and stable families in their corner are entirely different from the outcomes for young, single moms from the dysfunctional background of generational poverty. But since the latter group is more numerous than the former and statistics on the subject are often gathered in such a way as to exclude those most likely to have positive outcomes (ie by defining "teen mother" as someone 17 or younger at the time of delivery), the statistical picture is sometimes bleaker than reality.

 

[eliza61]

.

I know quite a few women who had their first child in their teens and live a decent life today. Some have degrees and careers, some just have jobs, and some (myself included) are married and home with the kids. The outcomes for young, single moms with educated parents and stable families in their corner are entirely different from the outcomes for young, single moms from the dysfunctional background of generational poverty. But since the latter group is more numerous than the former and statistics on the subject are often gathered in such a way as to exclude those most likely to have positive outcomes (ie by defining "teen mother" as someone 17 or younger at the time of delivery), the statistical picture is sometimes bleaker than reality.

LOL maybe because I volunteer in the reality, it seem bleaker than the statistical picture.

Question: wouldn't a teen mom be some one 17 or younger?

If the statistics are skewed, What is the reality? (seriously, I met 7 young ladies at a GED class last week, all are under 20 and all have 2-3 kids. I'm totally pessimistic. I know I shouldn't be but I just look at them and say "who the heck is going to date a single mom with 3 toddlers and a minimum wage job? as bad as it sounds I wouldn't let my son's date some one like that.)

So you're saying that most households with single moms as head of households are economically on the same level as 2 parent incomes?

I'm probably older and as some one else mentioned religious and societal norms where different when I was a teen. You simply did not have a kid at 17when I was coming up and if some one did they were definitely talked about, usually sent down south to a relatives or some thing like that. I don't know anyone who did, truthfully still don't have any friends who's kids got pregnant before graduating h.s. Now I know many single moms, mainly through break ups of significant others but all are career women/college graduate/ had kids in the mid 20's.

Now my sister in law is single, she's in her mid 40's and divorced but even she does not consider herself a "single" mom because he ex is fully involved in my nieces life. in all ways. She always comments that X was a lousy husband but is a great dad.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Part of that is the demographic you're working with - if they're successful, how likely is it that they'd stay in Camden? I worked in Detroit when I was younger and saw much the same thing... but it wasn't because no single mom does well for herself, it was because the single moms that did well and weren't living in/near poverty were out in the suburbs and not coming into my office looking for help.

I know quite a few women who had their first child in their teens and live a decent life today. Some have degrees and careers, some just have jobs, and some (myself included) are married and home with the kids. The outcomes for young, single moms with educated parents and stable families in their corner are entirely different from the outcomes for young, single moms from the dysfunctional background of generational poverty. But since the latter group is more numerous than the former and statistics on the subject are often gathered in such a way as to exclude those most likely to have positive outcomes (ie by defining "teen mother" as someone 17 or younger at the time of delivery), the statistical picture is sometimes bleaker than reality.

Statistically speaking, your demographic will still lag behind their peers who are in 2-parent households. It's just basic math. My parents are loving, supportive, and both hold at least a masters degree.

But, if I were a single dad, my career choices would be more limited than they are today. I may not be poverty stricken, but I'd darn sure be "broke".

 

[Colleen27]

LOL maybe because I volunteer in the reality, it seem bleaker than the statistical picture.

Question: wouldn't a teen mom be some one 17 or younger?

If the statistics are skewed, What is the reality? (seriously, I met 7 young ladies at a GED class last week, all are under 20 and all have 2-3 kids. I'm totally pessimistic. I know I shouldn't be but I just look at them and say "who the heck is going to date a single mom with 3 toddlers and a minimum wage job? as bad as it sounds I wouldn't let my son's date some one like that.)

So you're saying that most households with single moms as head of households are economically on the same level as 2 parent incomes?

I'm probably older and as some one else mentioned religious and societal norms where different when I was a teen. You simply did not have a kid at 17when I was coming up and if some one did they were definitely talked about, usually sent down south to a relatives or some thing like that. I don't know anyone who did, truthfully still don't have any friends who's kids got pregnant before graduating h.s. Now I know many single moms, mainly through break ups of significant others but all are career women/college graduate/ had kids in the mid 20's.

Now my sister in law is single, she's in her mid 40's and divorced but even she does not consider herself a "single" mom because he ex is fully involved in my nieces life. in all ways. She always comments that X was a lousy husband but is a great dad.

Well, by definition 18 & 19yos are still teens but because they're also legal adults they're often excluded from statistics on teen pregnancy and parenting. They still face the same social stigma of being a teen mom, based at least in part on statistics that they're too old to be included in. And they account for more births to teenage women than 13-17yos.

What is reality for teen moms depends largely on regional and social differences. Many of my mom friends had their first as a teen, before marriage but after graduating from high school. I'd guess it splits roughly 50/50 between those who went on to marry the child's father and those who remained single or married someone else later. Economically they aren't on the same level as a 2 parent household because they lack a second wage-earner, but they aren't living in poverty either. But these aren't families you're likely to come across while volunteering because they don't seek/need help - they're making ends meet, albeit in a modest lifestyle. The nature of volunteering means only seeing those in need.

 

[Colleen27]

Statistically speaking, your demographic will still lag behind their peers who are in 2-parent households. It's just basic math. My parents are loving, supportive, and both hold at least a masters degree.

But, if I were a single dad, my career choices would be more limited than they are today. I may not be poverty stricken, but I'd darn sure be "broke".

I suppose part of this is in the definition of broke. I associate broke with "can't make ends meet", with poverty, not with having to pass on career advancement because of family obligations or otherwise accepting a lower but still middle class standard of living.

But in general I do think single parenthood is more limiting for men than for women - there's less understanding for a man who needs to set limits on his working hours or take time off because of a child's need, while women tend to carry those responsibilities whether married or single.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

I suppose part of this is in the definition of broke. I associate broke with "can't make ends meet", with poverty, not with having to pass on career advancement because of family obligations or otherwise accepting a lower but still middle class standard of living. But in general I do think single parenthood is more limiting for men than for women - there's less understanding for a man who needs to set limits on his working hours or take time off because of a child's need, while women tend to carry those responsibilities whether married or single.

You will likely make less than your make peers just by virtue if being a woman. Married, single, educated or not.

 

[Gr8t Fan]

...I'm learning to be content. We do a vacation every other year or so plus vacations to the grandparents. It is what it is. I'm building my ant farm one grain of sand at a time. I'm still far better off than most people in this world, so I try to stay positive. It can be hard though because I live in a neighborhood where the average income is probably 3x what mine is.

Sums up my thinking exactly...learning to be content. We're a single income family of 6 in a neighborhood of many double income, high earning families. Compared to how DH and I grew up, we've done pretty well. But compared to other families surrounding us, we don't have as much (by way of the latest fashions, new cars, toys, etc) or do as much (by way of fancy vacations, going out to eat, to the movies, etc). Nevertheless, we're happy and grateful and try to teach our kids to be happy and grateful.

 

[Gr8t Fan]

..The thing that continues to shock me every single summer is the registration packet we get from our PUBLIC schools - an average of $300 registration fees for each of our three kids. in Michigan, public schools are not allowed to require so much as a #2 pencil. They can "wish/suggestion list" it, but they are not allowed to require it. Here, not only do we pay really high mortgages/rent/property taxes AND registration fees for our kids to attend PS, but we also pay $130/year for each kid to ride the bus, pay to play, books, AND a required school supply list that tells us exactly what color and style folder the student is to have. It's absolute nuts. And I hear that my DS14, who is starting high school in the fall, also will have "course fees" for each class he takes on top of all of this. That will add at least another $200 to the total. And everyone that has lived here all their lives thinks I am crazy for even questioning this!

Sigh...Ok. Vent over!

ETA: DH and I decided to stop venting over this subject (although I couldn't help myself here! LOL) and just chalk up everything we pay to "public school tuition" and be thankful that our kids are getting the education they are getting - our High School routinely ranks in the top 15-20 for the state of Illinois, and always ranks very high (like in the top 50) for the nation for various magazines - the most recent being Newsweek and US News and World Report. Knowing this helps ease the pain somewhat...LOL

We are in Chicago proper and our oldest two go to top ranked selective enrollment public high schools. School fees last year for our senior were $451 and our freshman were $437! Like you, we are grateful for the quality of the education they're getting, but were surprised by the fees.

 

[ellochka]

Sums up my thinking exactly...learning to be content. We're a single income family of 6 in a neighborhood of many double income, high earning families. Compared to how DH and I grew up, we've done pretty well. But compared to other families surrounding us, we don't have as much (by way of the latest fashions, new cars, toys, etc) or do as much (by way of fancy vacations, going out to eat, to the movies, etc). Nevertheless, we're happy and grateful and try to teach our kids to be happy and grateful.

This is a very good observation. I have read in multiple sources that it is easier not go broke if you make more money then your neighbors. Also, making more money then your neighbors improves your happiness. So, I guess the conclusion is to buy a house in a community with income level slightly lower than yours. I am not sure I buy the whole thing 100%, but I have been feeling pretty about where we live since we don't need to keep up with the neighbors (we consume less, but our income is probably 50% more than the average).
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100322092057.htm

 

[Dakota731]

Single mothers were poor before they had children. Nothing really changed for them.

Not true. I think in my own family "the tale of two sisters" both born into a middle class family. The oldest got pregnant at 16 is living with my sister and her husband (who now won't be able to retire early). She has been working at Target for the past five years with no support from the baby's father who has disappeared. Her sister went to college and became a nurse and married and had a baby about the same time. The single mother wants everything for her child that her niece gets, so she is up to her eyeballs in debt trying to keep up. It's a vicious cycle that she will probably never get out of, and even she admits that she should of waited to have a baby. I blame a lot of these girls' mental states on the media who glorify Hollywood unwed mothers and put them on the covers of magazines with their baby bumps in bikinis vacationing in the Caribbean. Unfortunately that's not reality and these girls either up end up the government entitlement system for life or living at home with mom and dad supporting them into their 30's

 

[ellochka]

Not true. I think in my own family "the tale of two sisters" both born into a middle class family. The oldest got pregnant at 16 is living with my sister and her husband (who now won't be able to retire early). She has been working at Target for the past five years with no support from the baby's father who has disappeared. Her sister went to college and became a nurse and married and had a baby about the same time. The single mother wants everything for her child that her niece gets, so she is up to her eyeballs in debt trying to keep up. It's a vicious cycle that she will probably never get out of, and even she admits that she should of waited to have a baby. I blame a lot of these girls' mental states on the media who glorify Hollywood unwed mothers and put them on the covers of magazines with their baby bumps in bikinis vacationing in the Caribbean. Unfortunately that's not reality and these girls either up end up the government entitlement system for life or living at home with mom and dad supporting them into their 30's

First, it's a sample of two. Second, there is a lot of self selection involved, even between sisters. To prove your point, you should be about 100% sure the sister that had a baby at 16 would have gone to college and graduated. Otherwise, you are comparing apples to oranges.

Researchers go out of their way to make sure the populations they are comparing are representative. It is very hard to do, and can't be done by comparing two sisters.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

First, it's a sample of two. Second, there is a lot of self selection involved, even between sisters. To prove your point, you should be about 100% sure the sister that had a baby at 16 would have gone to college and graduated. Otherwise, you are comparing apples to oranges.

Researchers go out of their way to make sure the populations they are comparing are representative. It is very hard to do, and can't be done by comparing two sisters.

You can take any demographic you choose, and then split that into those who had children as teens (group A) and those that didn't (group B).

And within any such demographic, there will be a higher percentage of "poor" within group A than there is in group B. There will be individual cases of total success from group A and individual cases of pure heartbreak from group B and everything in between. But, on the whole, group B will be better off. And that doesn't matter if you're talking about girls who started poor, girls who started middle class, or girls who started filthy rich. Within each of those 3 demographics, group B on the whole will be more successful than group A.

 

[ellochka]

You can take any demographic you choose, and then split that into those who had children as teens (group A) and those that didn't (group B).

And within any such demographic, there will be a higher percentage of "poor" within group A than there is in group B. There will be individual cases of total success from group A and individual cases of pure heartbreak from group B and everything in between. But, on the whole, group B will be better off. And that doesn't matter if you're talking about girls who started poor, girls who started middle class, or girls who started filthy rich. Within each of those 3 demographics, group B on the whole will be more successful than group A.

Yes, and again, correlation does not mean causation.

 

[ellochka]

"They conclude that “being on a low economic trajectory in life leads many teenage girls to have children while they are young and unmarried and that poor outcomes seen later in life (relative to teens who do not have children) are simply the continuation of the original low economic trajectory.” In other words, it is a mistake to the leap from the observation that women who gave birth as teenagers are poor to the view that they’re poor because they gave birth. Lexus owners are much richer than the average American, but that doesn’t mean the average person can get ahead by buying a Lexus. Women with better economic opportunities tend to do a good job of avoiding childbirth."

http://www.slate.com/articles/busin...to_have_babies_not_the_other_way_around_.html

Because it is extremely difficult to find a representative control for women who get pregnant and have babies as teens (no, demographics don't cover it), researchers did a trick and used those who got pregnant as teens and had a miscarriage, and used them as control. Once you do that, the impact of having a baby is substantially smaller.

 

[Colleen27]

This is a very good observation. I have read in multiple sources that it is easier not go broke if you make more money then your neighbors. Also, making more money then your neighbors improves your happiness. So, I guess the conclusion is to buy a house in a community with income level slightly lower than yours. I am not sure I buy the whole thing 100%, but I have been feeling pretty about where we live since we don't need to keep up with the neighbors (we consume less, but our income is probably 50% more than the average).
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100322092057.htm

I can see that. I certainly notice it in myself - we aren't higher earners than most of our neighbors but we are better off because of other factors, but we send our girls to private school. I notice my own mind wandering down more of a "keeping up with the Joneses" path when talking/thinking about things that the girls' school friends (who are generally more affluent than our community on whole, though certainly not well-off by any national or statistical standard) are planning or doing or involved in. And I notice it more in the kids as well, asking about expensive activities that they've never had any interest in before simply because it is something a school friend is very enthusiastic about.