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[TinkB278]

all sales through 6 Aug 2020

average (mean) contract size 168 points​

median (50th percentile) contract size is 150 points​

most common contract size (mode) is 100 points (~1.7k or 20%)​

there have been ~1.4M points sold to ~8.5k individuals / groups; this accounts for split contracts (split contracts considered as one individual / group)

the largest owner has 4,000 points; the next 11x highest go from 1,500 to 1,030 (including one 3 bedroom fixed week 52); after that, there are 17x 1,000 point owners ...

67% of RVA owners are first time buyers, the other 33% are existing owners split across all 14 previous DVC resorts
View attachment 517664

Interesting! So most people are most likely only planning on staying in studios if they go yearly.

 

[limace]

I keep seeing the points chart issue come up.

I’m only looking at 2021 June 11 - Aug 15 time frame because that’s when we’d likely go but Rivera is 146 points for a deluxe studio. For comparison:
Polynesian is 167
Grand Floridian is 167
I haven’t been here long but I rarely hear people talk about how point heavy those are.

Do these get a pass for being MK or for being originals people already love? Or is it the resale restriction already giving people a negative feeling about Riviera? Or is it that they are already sold out resorts?

Its true most other resorts are cheaper point wise but if CCV actually had studios available maybe we could says it’s actually cheaper. I’m thinking either you’re staying elsewhere or getting the 1B every couple years when a studio isn’t available, in which case you are either losing home resort advantage or spending about the same points at your home resort.

How many standard studios does Riviera have? That’s the standard studio rate-others are 184.

GF and Poly are 169 and 199-depending on view.


Riviera standard studio is higher than all AKV studio categories except for Concierge-the other view category is higher than concierge (!!!). Higher than BLT standard, BCV, both BWV views, BRV, CCV, OKW and SSR.

I don’t have a dog in the race-we are primarily west coast DVC ers and prefer AKV and OKW and usually stay two bedrooms.

 

[Sparky984]

I’m mainly comparing one bedrooms as a starting point. Riviera is about 30 points higher than say BLT for one bedrooms which to me, seems pretty significant. It’s about 70 points higher than an AKV 1 BR which I think is huge. 80-100+ points more for a riviera 2 BR compared to AKV.

Fair points. Coming from someone who has yet to actually book a DVC room yet, 30 points to me for a whole week would depend on the upgrade and maybe whether we had banked points to use. 70+ I would certainly agree is huge. I haven’t paid much attention to 1 BR because we’d probably try to stay in a studio when possible.

If CCV didn’t have studio availability problems and/or maybe if it had a more similar price point for direct compared to Riviera we probably would have considered that more heavily for a direct purchase. We really like WL! By the time we were considering, CCV was already $220!

 

[limace]

Just remember, you can buy any resort, pretty much-not just the few they are actively selling.

 

[CastAStone]

I keep seeing the points chart issue come up.

I’m only looking at 2021 June 11 - Aug 15 time frame because that’s when we’d likely go but Rivera is 146 points for a deluxe studio. For comparison:
Polynesian is 167
Grand Floridian is 167
I haven’t been here long but I rarely hear people talk about how point heavy those are.

Do these get a pass for being MK or for being originals people already love? Or is it the resale restriction already giving people a negative feeling about Riviera? Or is it that they are already sold out resorts?

Its true most other resorts are cheaper point wise but if CCV actually had studios available maybe we could says it’s actually cheaper. I’m thinking either you’re staying elsewhere or getting the 1B every couple years when a studio isn’t available, in which case you are either losing home resort advantage or spending about the same points at your home resort.

Don't forget the dues are way higher too. Everyone understands why VGF is a points hog. If I am not mistaken Riviera has about 2X the preferred rooms as Standard rooms (someone please correct me if I am wrong!) so non-owners will likely have to stay preferred and owners will compete for standard rooms at times.

Here's the average dues/night and points/night for the year for 2021; lotta purple at the top of the charts:
Studio

1 Bedroom

2 Bedroom

Ultra-Premium

 

[i<3riviera]

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[i<3riviera]

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[Lorana]

I keep seeing the points chart issue come up.

I’m only looking at 2021 June 11 - Aug 15 time frame because that’s when we’d likely go but Rivera is 146 points for a deluxe studio. For comparison:
Polynesian is 167
Grand Floridian is 167
I haven’t been here long but I rarely hear people talk about how point heavy those are.

Do these get a pass for being MK or for being originals people already love? Or is it the resale restriction already giving people a negative feeling about Riviera? Or is it that they are already sold out resorts?

Its true most other resorts are cheaper point wise but if CCV actually had studios available maybe we could says it’s actually cheaper. I’m thinking either you’re staying elsewhere or getting the 1B every couple years when a studio isn’t available, in which case you are either losing home resort advantage or spending about the same points at your home resort.

The Studio prices for Riviera aren't actually too outrageous, especially when you look at GF and Poly. But look at the 1 BR/2BR prices; that's where it gets CRAZY expensive.

 

[sethschroeder]

especially when you look at GF and Poly.

Except GF and Poly are in a different realm than RIV. RIV point charts should honestly be between BLT/CCV and not in the area of GF/POLY.

 

[Ruttangel]

Are any RRV owners worried that as more purchase the more demand for studios and obviously people on resale RRV can only get RRV.
This could mean increased competition for std studios and you are forced into preferred or going elsewhere?

 

[Sparky984]

Are any RRV owners worried that as more purchase the more demand for studios and obviously people on resale RRV can only get RRV.
This could mean increased competition for std studios and you are forced into preferred or going elsewhere?

Not a Riviera owner but I’m also wondering how newer non-Riviera resale owners being unable to compete for the same rooms might help balance out the problem you’ve presented.

I guess we don’t really know until it’s a problem.

 

[ChimneyJim]

Are any RRV owners worried that as more purchase the more demand for studios and obviously people on resale RRV can only get RRV.
This could mean increased competition for std studios and you are forced into preferred or going elsewhere?

Standard Studios can already be spotty at 9-10 months.

 

[i<3riviera]

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[Sandisw]

Are any RRV owners worried that as more purchase the more demand for studios and obviously people on resale RRV can only get RRV.
This could mean increased competition for std studios and you are forced into preferred or going elsewhere?

No, because I bought going in knowing that was possible. But, I also knew there would be certain times of the year that I would need to own to get them, so it was worth the purchase...plus, of course, my adult kids wanted it too!

 

[Cony]

DVC bought my SSR contract this weekend and I just bought GW studio at Riviera direct today! Not worried as I won't be selling this contract for the next 50 years. Problem with buying resale for me (not that I won't be adding on) was even if I bought SSR, I'd only have around 34 years left and I wouldn't even have turned 60. I also won't be able to book at any the future resorts with resale points going forward.

 

[CastAStone]

There are some assumptions being made in this thread based on the idea that Riviera will have a substantial resale base someday; I’m not convinced thats true.

If the resale restrictions cause a substantial difference between direct and resale prices, Disney will just ROFR everything.

 

[Akck]

Are any RRV owners worried that as more purchase the more demand for studios and obviously people on resale RRV can only get RRV.
This could mean increased competition for std studios and you are forced into preferred or going elsewhere?

First off, there have been only a few resales so competition won’t be noticeable. The resale restrictions will likely keep the quantity of contracts on the resale market low as no one wanting to make a profit will list their contract. Granted this can change, but I don’t see it happening for years, especially if direct sales go on for years as some have predicted.

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is the number of contracts that are restricted from new resorts. This should bode well for the 7 month window (if it exists), as a far larger percentage of contracts won’t be competing than the percentage of RR restricted contracts.

 

[i<3riviera]

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[sethschroeder]

it would seem others are worried about standard availability, of the 33 fixed deeds, 55% are standard units (ds, 1b, 2b) ...

That has more to do with preferred being overpriced I would suspect.

DVC bought my SSR contract this weekend and I just bought GW studio at Riviera direct today! Not worried as I won't be selling this contract for the next 50 years. Problem with buying resale for me (not that I won't be adding on) was even if I bought SSR, I'd only have around 34 years left and I wouldn't even have turned 60. I also won't be able to book at any the future resorts with resale points going forward.

I mean SSR is okay I guess but there are other contracts on resale that have longer contracts. You also need to account for the fact that your MFs will be higher and you require more points if you plan on staying at RIV.

Flip side if you were to do something like a CCV, BLT, AKV you are getting longer contracts, can get by with possibly less points, but also save money every single year on MFs.

First off, there have been only a few resales so competition won’t be noticeable. The resale restrictions will likely keep the quantity of contracts on the resale market low as no one wanting to make a profit will list their contract. Granted this can change, but I don’t see it happening for years, especially if direct sales go on for years as some have predicted.

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is the number of contracts that are restricted from new resorts. This should bode well for the 7 month window (if it exists), as a far larger percentage of contracts won’t be competing than the percentage of RR restricted contracts.

I mean we are 16 months in and over time more and more resale will hit the market. Also most people are not flipping contracts they bought direct for a profit. Instead they are selling specifically for a reason of getting out of DVC or to move to a different resort. As we approach and pass 2042 it will be interesting how RIV fairs as people want to jump to the new BCV/BWV resorts or possibly in another 10 years if a YCV becomes a thing.

In the end with RIV having such a high point chart I go back and forth that in 10-15 years that people will not just pass over the older RIV resort in favor of trying to get in to BCV (for the pool) or BWV (for the theme/point chart).

If I bought RIV I would just make sure I had a fixed week for a standard studio even if I never used it as we mostly do 1/2br. Its a fall back and helps protect resale value.

 

[UrsulaWantsYourSoul]

As we approach and pass 2042 it will be interesting how RIV fairs

Yes both to 2042 and also to see if (starting with DL Tower) the "can only use RIV resale at RIV" changes to "can only use at any resort built/rebuilt RIV and later".

If resale RIV stays restricted to *only* booking at RIV, I do think that group of people will largely be offset by the group of other resale contracts not being able to book there. Perhaps not a complete wash but close enough it won't be as catastrophic as some anticipate.