WOW! Fantasyland Renovation

[steve76]

wow....feels like a struck a nerve with people...
Don't think anyone is mad at me or anything. but I definately
the one people are counter debating for reasons why it's real.

It's ok with me if you counter my points...it's all speculation so no
arguing here.

And don't get me wrong here I like the plan. Just have serious doubts it's real. (if it's real I want it built and done before Oct 11', when we plan our next, last visit for a while)

I mean the fact that it matches up to scale perfectly with google earth image?
Or course it would be simular but spot on scale? (as someone else posted)...hints at fake to me.
Wouldn't take a expert to take the google image and line draw plane from there.

And that they miss spelled Carousel? Very serious hint of fake.

I just hope everyone who is arguing that it's real doesn't get there hopes up too high.

You may be right - it may well be a complete fake. Or it may be 'genuine' in the sense that it is a real blueprint made by people working in or for Disney, but that's not to say it would necessarily be built. I would imagine that in any project there would be many, many, different plans drawn up for various options, and only occasionally one of them may see the light of day.

As lots of people have pointed out, nothing is for certain unless and until it is built. But there's a lot of fun to be had debating and imagining it, regardless of whether it's real or not.

And on the question of the spelling mistake, I don't think that's necessarily proof one way or another. I don't think that all Disney Imagineers or architects are 100% perfect and that any of them never make any spelling mistakes. We don't know at what draft this document is at, whether it has been reviewed or signed off, so it may have just been the work of one guy. Remember, this would not have been produced for public consumption. If this was a press release, the I would agree with you because it would have been reviewed and approved and so I would expect all typos to have been weeded out.

Note that I'm not arguing against your conclusions that it's fake, only against your specific points.

 

[tjkraz]

I'm not saying I wouldn't stop and get my picture taken with the princesses and what not, but what if someone my age didn't? If you aim for kids, us adults wont have fun, other than to just walk around and avoid all the meet and greets.

Fantasyland will never be all-things to all-people. (Nor will any part of any theme park.) Different age groups/genders will always gravitate toward lands or attractions for their own reason.

But if you make Fantasyland that much more appealing, it will pull people from other areas of the theme park. The lines at Buzz Lightyear, Haunted Mansion, Pirates or Jungle Cruise will be shorter with the added capacity brought to Fantasyland.

I mean the fact that it matches up to scale perfectly with google earth image?
Or course it would be simular but spot on scale? (as someone else posted)...hints at fake to me.

It's the easiest thing in the world to resize an image in Photoshop or any other graphics editing program. You just grab a corner of the image and stretch it.

And that they miss spelled Carousel? Very serious hint of fake.

Where is "Carousel" mis-spelled?

 

[steve76]

Where is "Carousel" mis-spelled?

[After looking in a dictionary] It seems that Carousel can be spelt with one 'r' or two, although the Disney website uses two 'r's. The alleged blueprint uses one 'r'.

You learn something new every day!

 

[kmk1180]

well I can continue to give reasons why I think it's a fake...
(and there's always a counter arguement)
But what are you reason's why you think it's REAL?



Plus...Imagineers are not exactly know for revealing their secrets.
or letting them leak out. I have a hard time thinking they let it now.

 

[jheigl]

There is a story on it in the orlando sentinel....this does not prove it is real though...it is more like a discussion....http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/fe...yland-expansion-magic-kingdom-princesses.html

Maybe they are just putting this out to get some attention away from USO with the RRRockit and WWoHP (Harry Potter)?

 

[vmk_wdw]

it would be nice to some additions made to fantsayland, looking at the so called blueprints i would shrink the pixie hollow, the folks at disney could of made some sort of building for their online games, thus they could of kept vmk. they could add some sort of ride to mickey's fair it is some what boreding, i would keep the whole meeting mickey and minnie part. if they do redo part of fantsayland i hope they keep the current rides that are there. not sure why they would get rid of Aladdin carpet ride since its fairly new. i would like to see something done to tom sawyers, i do like the whole pirate island they have out in disneyland. the folks at disney have seem to forgotten about one of walts original ride, the carousel of progress, it would be nice to see some renovations done to keep that ride running.

 

[tjkraz]

well I can continue to give reasons why I think it's a fake...
(and there's always a counter arguement)
But what are you reason's why you think it's REAL?

I've already mentioned most of these things but:

1. It's too detailed to be a fan creation. You can't just take an image from Google Maps and turn it into an architectural drawing. There is a tremendous amount of detail in the layout. It's not just a park map with sections labeled "Belle", "Cinderella" and so on. It features pathways, landscaping, attraction layouts and so on. (I'll add that this doesn't mean the plan will be approved, but in my mind there's little doubt that it was created by WDI.)

2. The plan fits a number of rumors that were floating-about independently.

3. This type of plan fits the way Disney does things these days. If it instead showed 4-5 "D" and "E" ticket attractions, I'd be much more dubious. Disney doesn't spend like that. But despite the land involved, this doesn't appear to be a terribly expensive project.

4. Toontown was originally intended to be temporary and it's a complete waste of space.

Plus...Imagineers are not exactly know for revealing their secrets.
or letting them leak out. I have a hard time thinking they let it now.

Confidential information leaks out of companies all the time--particularly those in the public eye. Look at many of the threads on this "Rumors and News" forum which contain information that was made public before Disney formally announced it.

Having hard evidence like this doesn't happen every time, but it's far from unheard of.

 

[kmk1180]

I've already mentioned most of these things but:

1. It's too detailed to be a fan creation. You can't just take an image from Google Maps and turn it into an architectural drawing. There is a tremendous amount of detail in the layout. It's not just a park map with sections labeled "Belle", "Cinderella" and so on. It features pathways, landscaping, attraction layouts and so on. (I'll add that this doesn't mean the plan will be approved, but in my mind there's little doubt that it was created by WDI.)

I would disagree with that because if someone is going to take time to fake it, they will make it as real as possible and anyone with one or two eningeering courses would know what to include to make it look real.
Heck look at the people who take time out to create computer viruses,
those are complex and do nothing but hurt people.

2. The plan fits a number of rumors that were floating-about independently.

Perfect reason to choose that to fake instead of a new ride. People have their hopes up.


3. This type of plan fits the way Disney does things these days. If it instead showed 4-5 "D" and "E" ticket attractions, I'd be much more dubious. Disney doesn't spend like that. But despite the land involved, this doesn't appear to be a terribly expensive project.

but Disney did create EE that's definatly an "E" ticket. and I would say the same for TSM.
Both expensive projects...and this would be too.

4. Toontown was originally intended to be temporary and it's a complete waste of space.

Wow..waste of space? not to the parent and kids who like to get signatures. which is a ton. (the hour + wait in lines proves that) and look at the plan, it's basically an enlarged meet and greet. there's 1 new resturant and ride. the rest is meet and greets.


Confidential information leaks out of companies all the time--particularly those in the public eye. Look at many of the threads on this "Rumors and News" forum which contain information that was made public before Disney formally announced it.
Having hard evidence like this doesn't happen every time, but it's far from unheard of.

But not from Imagineers. They take great pride in keeping their secrects untill they are ready to reveal them.
I could be wrong but I never heard of EE plans being leaked. Or TSM.
Heck, NOBODY know what D23 was and they teased that.
Regular companies have regular low pay employees who don't care about keeping company secrets.
Imagineers are different.

Just saying...just because it's on the internet, doesn't mean it's real.

 

[skier_pete]

well I can continue to give reasons why I think it's a fake...
(and there's always a counter arguement)
But what are you reason's why you think it's REAL?



Plus...Imagineers are not exactly know for revealing their secrets.
or letting them leak out. I have a hard time thinking they let it now.

Look, I am not one for believing rumors flat out...for instance the recent Beastly Kingdom rumor. But, as PP has stated, this is MUCH too detailed to be some kind of Fan-made map.

But combine it with lots of other rumors that have been popping up...for instance on this thread:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2206720

(You'll note I played Doubting Thomas on that one too.) The Little Mermaid attraction has been rumored since before the economic downturn...and

When you hear the same rumors repeatedly...there's a thread of truth to them. And this all makes SENSE with what Disney would do. Regardless of what a PP has said - Toontown has NOTHING to do with Walt's Vision of his theme park - why not replace it with something else.

As far as keeping secrets - yes...Disney keeps them close...so that's a good reason to think this is fake. There's not blueprint # or anything on the drawing like you would expect there to be. But it's just as possible that Disney leaked it to gauge reaction to the idea. A major overhaul like that, even with only 1 big ride, will cost millions...if I was Disney, I might want to see what my biggest fans think. They could also have done surveys for this...but news would have leaked that way too.

Now, is Disney DEFINITELY doing this...not yet. As PP also said - it's not official until its announced, and even then it's not really official until its been built...so it is not like I am booking my tickets for 2012. All I can say is I would LOVE them to announce something...a place like WDW with 4 theme parks should always have some construction in the works.

SkierPete

 

[kmk1180]

L
Now, is Disney DEFINITELY doing this...not yet. As PP also said - it's not official until its announced, and even then it's not really official until its been built...so it is not like I am booking my tickets for 2012. All I can say is I would LOVE them to announce something...a place like WDW with 4 theme parks should always have some construction in the works.

SkierPete

I agree and basically just playing devil's advocate here.

As for your point, about testing the water...Disney has never done that before, why start now?

As for the plans, I like the idea of expanding FL. But if I were to critique the plans...
NO MICKEY????? No way..Toontown might have started as a temp, but there's no way you can get rid of a permanant place to visit mickey now
and there's no more apropriate place than Fantasyland.
I mean do you see it in Fronteirland? Tomorrowland? Libery Square?
Adventureland?
Only other possible place would be on Main Street but I don't see them
moving that crowd right at the entrance to the park.

Other crituque? A seperate line for EACH princess? UGH!
The current visit to see Ariel takes long enough as is to see just her, I can't imagine having to wait in line each time to visit each Princess.

 

[tjkraz]

I would disagree with that because if someone is going to take time to fake it, they will make it as real as possible and anyone with one or two eningeering courses would know what to include to make it look real.

If it were a fake, Disney would have stated as such by now. The image has been in the public domain for at least 5 days now and has even garnered the attention of the Orlando Sentinel. If the plan were not a genuine article, a Disney spokesperson would have made it clear that the designs do not represent any of their work.

Wow..waste of space? not to the parent and kids who like to get signatures. which is a ton. (the hour + wait in lines proves that) and look at the plan, it's basically an enlarged meet and greet. there's 1 new resturant and ride. the rest is meet and greets.

There are plenty of places to get character autographs...most notably at the character meals. And you better believe Disney would rather upsell guests to a character meal rather than give them a convenient spot to do it in the parks.

And there are several more attractions in the plan you seem to be missing. Little Mermaid may be the only RIDE, but the Cinderella, Belle and Aurora areas all have attractions listed.

Cinderella looks like it may host a Turtle Talk-type of attraction. The main lobby area is clearly evident with two identical theaters to the right and left. Perhaps a show that features interactive Gus and Jaq from the films?

A "Belle Attraction" is listed to the south of the new restaurant. While the drawing does not suggest a dark ride would be present, this looks to occupy even more space than the Cinderella attraction. Could be some sort of walk-thru exhibit similar to Mickey & Minnie's houses. DCA already has a "Beast's Library" interactive exhibit which is part of the Animation Building. They could be planning to utilize some of that technology here.

There is also an Aurora Attraction listed and a playground in Pixie Hollow which is about 3-4 times the size of Pooh's Playful Spot.

But not from Imagineers. They take great pride in keeping their secrects untill they are ready to reveal them.
I could be wrong but I never heard of EE plans being leaked. Or TSM.
Heck, NOBODY know what D23 was and they teased that.

Nobody said that WDI leaked the images. If these plans are nearing approval stages (or have already been approved) they have circulated far-and-wide beyond WDI.

Things get out....it happens. Trust me, I KNOW this to be true.

As for D23, many people acknowledged it was a fan club when the first D23 teaser posters were hung. That was no secret either.

 

[carmiedog]

I'm not against change, but one of my 4yo daughter's absolute favorite things in the Magic Kingdom was Minnie's house. She was more impressed by that than the castle itself...I wasn't sure I'd ever be able to drag her back out! It will be sorely missed if these plans come to be.

 

[CEO]

Plus...Imagineers are not exactly know for revealing their secrets.
or letting them leak out. I have a hard time thinking they let it now.

Well, that's a fair shot, but there are a few ways to respond.

1. Disney has spilled the beans before. It even put an early prototype of The Little Mermaid ride in the 2006 version of the movie's DVD (it's NOT the same as the one opening). You can see it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBUMRk-nkdA

2. Disney has had its share of layoffs. It can always be a disruntled imagineer, or maybe one who presented the plans, had it shot down, and wants the court of public opinion to have the final say.

3. This is a pretty massive makeover, so maybe Disney is intentionally leaking it as a trial balloon to make sure the public is behind it before giving it the green light.

 

[steve76]

Why do I think that this is probably genuine?

I would fully expect Disney to consider building the Little Mermaid ride at the MK - it makes sense from a commercial point of view and would be cheaper than many options because the development work has been done.

The fairies and princesses are huge commercial successes for Disney, and it's clear that they are trying to exploit this to its maximum potential, so including them in the plans is perfectly logical.

As for the loss of ToonTown, as other posters have said, it was a temporary land that was originally built to last one year so I'm guessing that it needed an overhaul anyway. Yes, it was very popular, but there are other ways to have meet-and-greets with the Fab 5. Plus, the land was so tucked away that you'd miss it if you weren't looking specifically for it.

Disney must produce hundreds and hundreds of blueprints such as these all the time. There will be multiple plans representing different options for each project. For this one, there's probably one plan which introduces the Little Mermaid ride without many other changes. There's probably one with Dumbo left as is. There's probably many other smaller expansion options and maybe some more ambitious ones too. There are probably plans involving the other side of Fantasyland and some that completely refresh ToonTown.

My view is that, if this plan is fake, then there's probably a similar (real) one in the Disney vaults anyway. So in a sense I don't really care if the blueprint is genuine or not... it doesn't really change anything. It's whether or not it's followed by an announcement by Disney that matters.

Having said that, my hunch (and that's all it can be) is that it's a genuine blueprint. BUT (and here's the important bit) that doesn't mean that this is going to be built, or is the preferred plan. This could have been leaked because this was on the boards at one point but then Disney decided to go for a much smaller-scale expansion (i.e. it was leaked to pressure Disney into going for this option). Or leaked by someone upset about the loss of ToonTown. Or leaked in order to manage expectations, with the final plan being slightly more ambitious. Or it could just be Disney just testing the water (something which is quite common elsewhere).

As for my own views on the plans - I'd be pleased if they introduced another C or D ticket to Fantasyland, and the Little Mermaid would fit the bill. Dumbo, princesses and the fairies don't interest me but I know that they would for a lot of folks. Similarly I won't mourn the loss of ToonTown (provided they find another home for Minnie and Mickey). But I'd be very glad if they do some re-landscaping, with trees and streams rather than just concrete.

 

[wendyt_ca]

(especially in favor of "fairies, only one of which Tinkerbell, anyone avery heard of prior to the Tinkerbell movie?)

That whole, Pixie Hollow...The whole idea is from a made for DVD movie Disney put out to promote Tinkerbell, some how I don't see a permanant area created for made for dvd movies.

I have been a MASSIVE Tinker Bell fan for a good 6 years ago long before the movie came out. And she has been very popular for a long time again well before the movies came out. Her franchise is one of Disney's biggest and sells more than all of the Disney princesses combined. And as a PP stated they have at least 4 movies coming out in her series and have very high expectations for her. I think a Tink area is highly needed! I still remember my disappointment when I went to Disney World for the first time in 2006 and was told there was no M & G with Tink (and I am currently 25 so at the time 22). Now they finally have one and I am sure it is due to the huge demand for it.

I do really hope this blueprint is real because I love it and think it is brilliant. There isn't a Disney princess section and for such a huge franchise there should be. Fantasyland has been in huge need of an overhaul. I won't miss toontown but I do hope the relocate Mickey & Minnie's houses. There will still be a meet and greet somewhere I am positive.

 

[BayouMickey]

I have been a MASSIVE Tinker Bell fan for a good 6 years ago long before the movie came out. And she has been very popular for a long time again well before the movies came out. Her franchise is one of Disney's biggest and sells more than all of the Disney princesses combined. And as a PP stated they have at least 4 movies coming out in her series and have very high expectations for her. I think a Tink area is highly needed! I still remember my disappointment when I went to Disney World for the first time in 2006 and was told there was no M & G with Tink (and I am currently 25 so at the time 22). Now they finally have one and I am sure it is due to the huge demand for it.

I do really hope this blueprint is real because I love it and think it is brilliant. There isn't a Disney princess section and for such a huge franchise there should be. Fantasyland has been in huge need of an overhaul. I won't miss toontown but I do hope the relocate Mickey & Minnie's houses. There will still be a meet and greet somewhere I am positive.

A M&G in TT, around 4 or 5 character dining opportunities, plus the princess party at the GF.. Isn't that enough?? They are cramming the princesses down our throats enough as is. I mean don't get me wrong I have two young girls who adore the princesses, but what about my poor boy? If they DO improve FL I would expect them to balance out the theming. This plan turns FL into pansy land..

 

[skier_pete]

Actually, does anyone think that Disney could have leaked this image to "build buzz"? It's not unlike a movie production "leaking" pics from their movie. If they just came out and announced it, people would be excited, but instead they get people talking about it for weeks before the official announcement. Now again...this would only be among the on-line DIS community...but still...there is a lot of buzzing.

Skierpete

 

[Woozle13]

I was thinking the same think Skier Pete

 

[Jessfrogger88]

I mean as much as I'm not a huge princess fan I think the amount of stuff for boys vs. girls is way skewed to the boys side anyway.

Boys.

Pirates
Buzz
Indy Speedway
Frontierland
Adventureland
Star Wars
Lights Motor Action
Indy Stunt Show
Dinoland
Mahlstrom
Mission Space
Test Track


Not to say that both sexes can't enjoy these attractions but I would say in general they are more skewed towards boys.

Where as the girls have...

CIndy's carrosel
Snow White
Small World
Voyage of the Little Mermaid
Beauty and the Beast

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I'm not against change, but one of my 4yo daughter's absolute favorite things in the Magic Kingdom was Minnie's house. She was more impressed by that than the castle itself...I wasn't sure I'd ever be able to drag her back out! It will be sorely missed if these plans come to be.

I'm in the camp that believes these plans are probably authentic. Do I think these are the absolute, final, plans? No, of course not. I'm just about finished reading "Realityland" and I know how things change on a daily basis with plans for the parks.

That being said, I really hope they find a place to move Mickey & Minnie's house. For my DD, the MK is where Mickey & Minnie live, so seeing their houses is a HUGE deal for her. I would be saddened to think she'd be left wondering why Mickey and Minnie were forced to "move" from their home. Everyday she asks when she can go visit Minnie's house again!

As to the other things, I think a BatB area is well overdue, along with increasing the ride capacity for Dumbo.