Would you borrow money from your children?

[tina.tina]

If I were one of the children, I would lay down the law to my siblings and tell them this is what I'm willing to do and there is a line in the sand that I will not cross. Mom/Dad has assets to help him/herself and refuses to do so. If you did refused to pay your bills and expected someone else to do it for you you, would it be okay? We have to be realistic here even if he/she isn't and it falls to us to do it. If you're willing to take on responsibility alone and have the money to do it, go for it but I've told you my stance and I'm not budging.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

If I were one of the children, I would lay down the law to my siblings and tell them this is what I'm willing to do and there is a line in the sand that I will not cross. Mom/Dad has assets to help him/herself and refuses to do so. If you did refused to pay your bills and expected someone else to do it for you you, would it be okay? We have to be realistic here even if he/she isn't and it falls to us to do it. If you're willing to take on responsibility alone and have the money to do it, go for it but I've told you my stance and I'm not budging.

Yep.

I would be furious to have anyone including the 90yo person in question, ask ME for money and have the GALL to refuse to sell assets. That would be my line in the sand.

If the kids are smart they will ban together as a united front and force mom to sell stuff to pay her bills.

 

[usd2bmd]

No. I have an Aunt who "Took care" of my grandmother after my grandfather died. When my grandmother died her half million dollar estate was gone but my aunt had a two new cars and a brand new in ground swimming pool in her back yard. A few years later we ran into one of her daughters and after talking for quite a while we realized she had been stealing from my grandmother (of course we always sort of knew) but that her daughter and her husband had also "loaned" them money several times over the years when they couldn't pay their bills. Her daughters finally said no and two months later they filed bankruptcy.

I never loan or borrow money from family or friends. I would go without before ever asking someone for money.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I thought of another thing....

If mom wants money from me she has to give me an asset worth that value of the handout oops I mean "loan".

 

[Bec3b1g]

Thanks, everyone. It helps to hear outside opinions.

 

[Choozee]

I have loaned my dad money. He paid me back.
My dad is in the heavens now. I wish I could give him another loan.

 

[nugov2]

I guess I come at this from a different perspective as most, but I would help them if they needed it. I would have terms though. I wouldn't loan them money, though I would give them what I could comfortably without expecting a return. On a side, how do they only have 100,000 in assets if they have a huge custom home with tons of expensive antiques. That part of the story seems off.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I guess I come at this from a different perspective as most, but I would help them if they needed it. I would have terms though. I wouldn't loan them money, though I would give them what I could comfortably without expecting a return. On a side, how do they only have 100,000 in assets if they have a huge custom home with tons of expensive antiques. That part of the story seems off.

Spenders spend their money, all of it, plus loans and charging.

The 90yo in question has reached the point where she cannot afford her bills. She has spent way beyond her means.

She has reached the point where you are throwing good money after bad debt. It is not a smart thing to do. You have to change it to fix it.

Obviously selling her home and assets is the smart thing to do here however the 90yo does not want to do that. She just wants the kids to pay her bills.

That is an option however it is dependent on her bills and what the kids can afford. It is a tough spot to navigate however you have to get down and be realistic with the situation.

In my experience when a spender is in this spot they amp up the spending even more. It is hard to pay someone bills when they are still charging stuff and then showing you what they bought while you are trying to keep them from being foreclosed on.

With my parents, my sister and I went through ALL of their debt and figured out they were a couple of months from being foreclosed on. We made them sell the house.

 

[robinb]

I guess I come at this from a different perspective as most, but I would help them if they needed it. I would have terms though. I wouldn't loan them money, though I would give them what I could comfortably without expecting a return. On a side, how do they only have 100,000 in assets if they have a huge custom home with tons of expensive antiques. That part of the story seems off.

The OP said "several hundred thousands" and not just $100,000.

I think I would consider taking over the finances and help pay the bills. It seems cruel to tell mom/dad: "Thanks for raising me and being generous to our families after we grew up but you should have saved that money for your old age instead! Too bad, so sad you terrible spender, now you'll need to sell your antiques."

 

[alievans719]

I think under those circumstances, I would have to say that the assets be sold first.

Under other circumstances, I've helped my parents a lot with money. Sometimes frustratingly, sometimes I offer. My parents didn't handle their money well, but that was because they only had a minimal time where they had a decent amount of money. Both now barely make it. When I lived at home, I paid the mortgage as my rent. I never had a problem helping out, and when they needed a large amount, they paid me back(ended up selling a prized possession). The only time I really hated it was when a joint bank account got skimmed off the top. It was $20 here and there, but amounted to like, $300 in three months. As a college kid back then, that was a lot.


It's hard to get people to change their ways, and I know I would do anything to help my parents. So it's not very cut and dry, but I would say in your instance, things need to change first before they're bailed out.

 

[nugov2]

Spenders spend their money, all of it, plus loans and charging.

The 90yo in question has reached the point where she cannot afford her bills. She has spent way beyond her means.

She has reached the point where you are throwing good money after bad debt. It is not a smart thing to do. You have to change it to fix it.

Obviously selling her home and assets is the smart thing to do here however the 90yo does not want to do that. She just wants the kids to pay her bills.

That is an option however it is dependent on her bills and what the kids can afford. It is a tough spot to navigate however you have to get down and be realistic with the situation.

In my experience when a spender is in this spot they amp up the spending even more. It is hard to pay someone bills when they are still charging stuff and then showing you what they bought while you are trying to keep them from being foreclosed on.

With my parents, my sister and I went through ALL of their debt and figured out they were a couple of months from being foreclosed on. We made them sell the house.

I don't disagree and why I would have terms. I can't be more specific on what terms because I don't really know the whole situation for this family and the parent in question.

The OP said "several hundred thousands" and not just $100,000.

I think I would consider taking over the finances and help pay the bills. It seems cruel to tell mom/dad: "Thanks for raising me and being generous to our families after we grew up but you should have saved that money for your old age instead! Too bad, so sad you terrible spender, now you'll need to sell your antiques."

I misread. Not enough coffee. I agree with with your last paragraph. I could never ever do that to my parents, but I was raised by different parents then the OP so their connection and views are clearly different. On the DIS I have learned that the family dynamic is so much different than my experience with my own family and the majority of my friends. That will obviously change how you will react in any situation. I'd give my brother money no strings attached if he needed it, but he isn't irresponsible nor is his wife so if they needed money it would be because of a major catastrophe and not financial mismanagement.

 

[Gigi22]

Given the age of the OP's parent, before anything at all is done, the OP needs to make sure her parent's will and POA are in good order.

 

[lauradis]

OP In this order...

POA
Will
Guardianship of person
Guardianship of finance

I personally never loan family or friends money, if I have to give I just give it.

My advice to you is give if you have and get the sibling together and get an attorney, Help them stay in their home if they want and can.

No I have never borrowed more then a couple of dollar in cash from our non adult children.

 

[robinb]

Given the age of the OP's parent, before anything at all is done, the OP needs to make sure her parent's will and POA are in good order.

I totally agree. That needs to be done ASAP. Especially the will ... take it from me!

FWIW, I think the OP is one more generation removed. She is either a granddaughter or granddaughter-in-law as her kids are still teens.

 

[barkley]

OP In this order...

POA
Will
Guardianship of person
Guardianship of finance

I personally never loan family or friends money, if I have to give I just give it.

My advice to you is give if you have and get the sibling together and get an attorney, Help them stay in their home if they want and can.

No I have never borrowed more then a couple of dollar in cash from our non adult children.

I agree that the adult children of the parents need to make sure their paperwork is in order but that said-even with the types of paperwork mentioned IF the parents don't want or just downright refuse help with their finances (short of a loan/gifted money from family) it is nearly impossible to force the issue if they are of competent mind (and being over spenders/not wanting to sell home/being in debt does not qualify for incompetency) so a POA only goes so far. as far as guardianship-just went through this w/ds who was willing and accepting of us being his guardians but the courts still required that he be evaluated for competency to allow this drastic step. elderly parents who (1) know they have financial issues and may be choosing to resolve/deal with them in impractical (to most of us) ways, and (2) have self care issues but are aware enough to be "asking" (demanding) for family help would likely be viewed as entirely competent such that if they were not willing to permit guardianship it would be an uphill battle (and often causes the persons your trying to protect to cut off all contact). from what we learned in our guardianship training-when it comes to the elderly, short of proven elder financial abuse at the hands of others it is nearly impossible to get financial guardianship.

 

[Bec3b1g]

I totally agree. That needs to be done ASAP. Especially the will ... take it from me!

FWIW, I think the OP is one more generation removed. She is either a granddaughter or granddaughter-in-law as her kids are still teens.

Yes, this is a grandparent. I have also been asked to contribute/loan and to purchase the home at a "special" family price, which turned out to be higher than the list price. Dh and I are financially comfortable and do have the extra money. I feel strongly this issue needs to stay between the parent and the children. The problem is they can't agree. I'm having a tough time understanding my grandparent's perspective and also why my parent & aunts/uncles can't agree on a solution. It seems so black & white to me.

It's one thing to say I can't contribute and another to say I won't.

 

[Allison]

Why can't the children who want to financially support the parents do it and those who don't want to do it, don't. Why do they need to agree?

 

[Bec3b1g]

Why can't the children who want to financially support the parents do it and those who don't want to do it, don't. Why do they need to agree?

The person that has been providing financial and day to day support is now retired, relocated and can no longer do it and expects someone else to step in. None of the other siblings are willing to provide financial support.

You are right, though. Either contribute or don't. No one needs to agree, but stop being bitter and criticizing those who can't and won't provide support. I'm just a grandchild--leave me the heck out of it.

 

[Allison]

Well, then the real issue is the sibling expecting others to take this on and being put out because they won't. Sounds like others need to distance themselves from this person and stick by their decision.

If they bring it up, refuse to discuss it. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

 

[indygirl99]

Yes, this is a grandparent. I have also been asked to contribute/loan and to purchase the home at a "special" family price, which turned out to be higher than the list price. Dh and I are financially comfortable and do have the extra money. I feel strongly this issue needs to stay between the parent and the children. The problem is they can't agree. I'm having a tough time understanding my grandparent's perspective and also why my parent & aunts/uncles can't agree on a solution. It seems so black & white to me.

It's one thing to say I can't contribute and another to say I won't.

A different view may help you understand your grandparents.

They are in their 90's so they grew up as children in the Great Depression. Most likely in a multi-generational home where everyone's money helped pay expenses. They most likely had very little of their own and had to share clothes, toys, books with nothing being brand new or theirs alone. They probably had days when they went to school hungry because there was no food and there was not a school lunch program to help feed them.

As they became adults things got better and they had money to be able to have new things and food on their table. They were able to buy a house and not have to live with parents, grandparents, kids and grandkids all together in cramped quarters. They could take trips they only dreamed about as kids. They could buy those expensive souvenirs and continue to dream.

When the economy had a big downturn a few years back they had very bad flashbacks to the poor times of their childhood and in no way are they willing to return there. They want to keep what they worked so hard to achieve and feel that when they are gone their heirs can have something.

People who grew up during the depression either remained extremely frugal and you hear about their 20 tons of aluminum foil and million dollar bank accounts or they spend their money to obtain things.

Just a different look on things. Not saying it helps solve the situation but maybe gives you a small glimpse into their thinking.