When should parents start making their girls wear shirts around the house and yard?

[dngnb8]

No, 6 isn't the magical age where the situation changes, I just use 6 as a point of reference because that is the age of the child in question in this thread.

I just said that if I had a 6 year old, I would've already had that conversation with him or her. I'm not sure when it would've happened, but by then I think I would've explained to her about societal norms and some of the differences between the genders.

Again, at that age, anatomically, girls and boys are the same on top. Culturally, the issue arises in the US when girls start developing the top.

Im just not sure this is an issue. Now if she is 16, damn straight its an issue, but anatomically, she is different then males. At 6, I just dont see a "Modesty" issue.

 

[dngnb8]

Modesty does not need to have a sexual basis. My son is 3. If I did not instruct him otherwise, he would whip out his ***** in public for the sheer joy of it. He is very proud of his *****. There is nothing sexual in his desire to get naked. There is nothing sexual in my desire to keep him appropriately clothed with the ***** put away while I pay for groceries. He is instructed to keep his pants and shirt and shoes on in stores. Modesty has to do with cultural norms for body coverage in various settings. If it was the cultural norm to wear a hat, we would do that, too.

Well, frankly, Im proud of mine too!

That being said, Ive seen many, in public, 3 y/o's experiencing self discovery, both male and female. The "basis" for modesty is sexual. We cover up the "private parts" because of the sexual connection with them. Not because urine of lactose is a product of them

 

[DMickey28]

I don't have girls but have two boys. I'd say 2ish. Depends. My BFF has two girls, 5 and 3. The 3 year old is tiny and it doesn't seem odd to me if I saw her without a top. My 1 year old will run around without a diaper sometimes (diaper rash) but I will not let my 4 year old run around without undies on. I guess 2 years and/or potty trained.

I am comparing it to my boys and bottoms because that's my knowledge!

 

[topolino]

...but this particular parent didn't come to you for advise...maybe because she feels there's nothing wrong with topless six year olds.

No, they didn't, and I did not address it with her. I never would do that unless I was asked to. I just though it might make for an interesting discussion on the Dis, as there are always people with differing yet interesting opinions on this board.

 

[Magpie]

When I was a little girl in the 1970's we regularly drove down to the Jersey Shore to play in the ocean. Up to about two or three, I wore nothing. After that I wore underwear, and that was it - no top. That was the "cultural norm" for that time and place. You can find newspaper file photos from Central Park in the seventies showing completely naked children playing in the fountains.

Then in 1977, the beach suddenly posted a new rule. ALL women, of any age, had to be covered top and bottom. My mum was caught unaware, and we had to make a dash to the beach store to pick up a bathing suit for me. All they had were skimpy bikinis!

My mum was spitting nails. She said it was ridiculous to sexualize little girls like that, and that all a bikini top did was encourage people to pretend they had something they didn't (ie, breasts). She really felt that sticking me IN a bikini was immodest. Letting me go topless - that was no problem at all.

But we have a great photo of me standing in the heavy surf with my string bikini top rolled up under my armpits (covering not a darn thing), and my string bikini bottom filled up with sand and falling right off.

 

[Bunnyfeather]

That being said, Ive seen many, in public, 3 y/o's experiencing self discovery, both male and female. The "basis" for modesty is sexual. We cover up the "private parts" because of the sexual connection with them. Not because urine of lactose is a product of them

The adult basis for modesty is sexual. And that is certainly the reason behind the norms of swimsuit bottoms and tops. But for my young children, the rules for wearing clothes are the same as the rules for wearing shoes, which are also a norm and certainly NOT a sexually motivated norm.

I don't ever use the word modesty around my kids, because frankly I have no interest in instilling modesty with regard to clothing. I want all the appropriate parts covered in all the appropriate situations. I am not going to let my 5-year-old run around the front yard with no shirt on...but I do not hold her responsible for feeling modest about it, she can wear a top just because that is what we do.

 

[punkin]

I am comparing it to my boys and bottoms because that's my knowledge!

I think we'd have a lot more agreement on this thread if we were discussing bottomless 6 year olds.

No, they didn't, and I did not address it with her. I never would do that unless I was asked to. I just though it might make for an interesting discussion on the Dis, as there are always people with differing yet interesting opinions on this board.

You certainly got that.

 

[luvtheworld16]

I think DisneyBamaFan trying to play the role of innocent bystander is somewhat hilarious

And, I'm hardly a pot-stirrer. I don't post enough to be invested. I found your thread both gross and offensive, and anyone with a shred of common sense would realize why it's inappropriate.

Apparently I have no common sense because I did not find any comments on this thread offensive or inappropriate (except yours).

 

[dngnb8]

just because that is what we do.

And we do because of the sexual connotations.

We are just dodging the reasons here. We dont tell the child that, but we as adults make the choice consciously because of that.

 

[MrsPete]

We never allowed our girls to run around topless -- even at home.

Older girls and women need to wear tops; it never occured to me NOT to start out that same way. This is just how girls dress. I liked dressing them up in cute outfits -- whole outfits -- when they were small. I never considered fully-dressing my girls to be a hinderance or a burden in any way, and we never had to fight any, "But why do I have to change my ways?" battles.

Just makes sense to me.

 

[Wishing on a star]

For me, any child (boy or girl) by the age of Kindergarten should not be encouraged to go around without a top on.

I am not going to pass any judgment about the OP's situation, as the family were at home, swimming, etc...

But, wouldn't be that way here for me.

Bottom line, little girls bathing suits have tops for a reason.

I do think I would have noticed, and wonder, just like the OP.

IMHO, at that age, yes, this mother is pushing the iimits.
By Kindergarden, a child should be dressing themselves, and be being shown/taught appropriate modesty.

 

[JennyKS]

I think in the summer time when it was really hot I would let my daughter run around in just a diaper, inside or in the yard. But once she started potty training and just had panties on, she wore clothes. I've never had to worry about her wanting to walk around naked, she'd rather have clothes on.

But maybe she is different since she is a daycare baby and at daycare you have to wear clothes, so to her, thats normal.

My daughter is 6 now and I can't imagine letting her run around outside for the neighbors to see with no shirt on. She is in dance class and the leotards this year have a built in bra because some girls her age need them already. I won't lie, mine is getting close.

 

[Minnesota!]

I don't have girls here but I've always thought that it wasn't something that needed to be taught. As she gets older and more aware of her body she'll want to cover up. It isn't really necessary or a bog deal before then

My thoughts, as well. When the child is self conscious of it.

 

[dngnb8]

Bottom line, little girls bathing suits have tops for a reason.

What is the reason?

and be being shown/taught appropriate modesty.

Not sure why a 6 y/o without a top is inappropriate?

 

[Bunnyfeather]

And we do because of the sexual connotations.

We are just dodging the reasons here. We dont tell the child that, but we as adults make the choice consciously because of that.

"We" are doing no such thing. I know the norm for underwear and swimsuits stems from sexuality. However, I can recognize that my children are too young for those reasons to actually apply. And I still adhere to the norms. MY reason is the social acceptance that comes from adhering to the norm is more important for my children than any benefit from resisting the norm.

Similarly, the social norm for saying "bless you" when someone sneezes stems from a belief that the soul leaves the body when you sneeze. I don't hold that belief, but I adhere to the norm and have taught my children to do so. MY reasons are social conformity, not the silly soul thing.

Heck, I don't wear bikinis and if I were at a topless beach, I would not go topless. That is because I like to cover all the jiggliest parts of me in public, which includes my stomach. That's not sexuality or modesty, that's a public service.

 

[dngnb8]

"We" are doing no such thing. I know the norm for underwear and swimsuits stems from sexuality. However, I can recognize that my children are too young for those reasons to actually apply. And I still adhere to the norms. MY reason is the social acceptance that comes from adhering to the norm is more important for my children than any benefit from resisting the norm.

Youre double talking. The norm is established because of the sexual connotations.

Similarly, the social norm for saying "bless you" when someone sneezes stems from a belief that the soul leaves the body when you sneeze. I don't hold that belief, but I adhere to the norm and have taught my children to do so. MY reasons are social conformity, not the silly soul thing.

Apples to Oranges. If someone doesnt say "Bless You" people dont start these threads. I mean, nobody goes, OMG! AN EVIL SPIRIT RELEASES AND SHE DID NOTHING!

Heck, I don't wear bikinis and if I were at a topless beach, I would not go topless. That is because I like to cover all the jiggliest parts of me in public, which includes my stomach. That's not sexuality or modesty, that's a public service.

Again, Apples to Oranges.

We enforce the "modesty" rule on children, as an adult, because of the sexual connotation.

BTW, you say its a social norm, I disagree. I see MANY children that age topless. Way too many for it to be abnormal. I think we use the social norm as an excuse, ignoring the real reasons. JMHO

 

[phorsenuf]

Apples to Oranges. If someone doesnt say "Bless You" people dont start these threads. I mean, nobody goes, OMG! AN EVIL SPIRIT RELEASES AND SHE DID NOTHING!

Oh c'mon now, that's not true. This is the community board, remember??

 

[punkin]

We enforce the "modesty" rule on children, as an adult, because of the sexual connotation.

BTW, you say its a social norm, I disagree. I see MANY children that age topless. Way too many for it to be abnormal. I think we use the social norm as an excuse, ignoring the real reasons. JMHO

I agree (particularly with the bolded part. The discussion would be much different if we were discussing bottomless 6 year olds, because that really is a societal norm. Topless 6 year olds are socially very acceptable.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

An observation: In a thread like this, many people are quick to point out societal norms that lead them to behave in a certain way. In other threads (like the SAHM thread), some of those same posters say that they don't care what society thinks - that you have to do what is best for you / your family.

I just find it interesting that we (myself included) bend to custom/etiquette in some areas, yet are unwilling to even recognize them in others.

 

[Magpie]

I think what some folks are missing is that in SOME places, the social norm is to make little girls wear tops at the pool.

In SOME places, the social norm is for them to go topless at the pool.

There is no ONE "social norm" that rules over all, everywhere.

I think rather than saying, "That's the social norm," you'd be a lot more accurate if you said, "That's the way things are done where I live."

There's more to the world than just Middle America. And even in Middle America, the "social norms" are going to vary from place to place.