What do you mean by 'afford it'? Seriously..

[jodifla]

That's a pretty good list.


It's easy to view this as a false dichotomy: either you vacation at Disney, or you live a miserable vacation-free life. Nothing can be further from the truth. Our first many years as a couple (and quickly thereafter, young family) were lean. We were able to pay our bills and fund our retirment and college savings accounts, but did not have a lot left over at the end of the month. Our vacations during these years mostly consisted of long weekends visiting attractions in nearby cities (zoos, science museums, our local amusement park, etc.) In some years, we would take one larger trip to the North Carolina coast, splitting a house with family to keep the costs down. As our financial resources grew, our ability to take vacations grew along with it. But, those memories aren't "better" than the ones from those early days---just more expensive. In fact, some of our most oft-told "vacation stories" come from our trips to Traverse City, Toledo, and Sandusky; not Orlando and Anaheim. And, we still do drive-to vacations that are less expensive than Disney at least half the time. Love them all.

Edited to add: even some of our "at-home" traditions have built priceless memories. For example, I take my daughter to the opening game of each Michigan football season for her birthday. I have since she was four. This past weekend, we went to our ninth opening-day game together. Even something as simple (and as relatively inexpensive) as game day has its own traditions and memories that I cherish.

Traverse City and Sandusky aren't cheap, at least today!

Of course WDW was my Sandusky. Since we lived 90 minutes from the Magic Kingdom, it was a frequent day trip when i was growing up. Heck, it was where we went camping as Girl Scouts.

So WDW was a driving vacation I could either do in a day, or overnight staying either on the campgrounds or at a Days Inns or with friends when they moved into the area. When we got married, we continued the camping trend there, moving into local motels then WDW hotels as we got more money.

Since our son was born after we were married 13 years, we had DVC already, so he's used to some pretty first-class vacations.

 

[luvthemouse71]

Do you feel I don't appreciate my blessings or my money. I worked one full time job and two part time jobs in college. There was no financial aid, no student loans, no way for my parents to help. That's not a blessing, just learning to go without rest, sleep, food, if needed
to reach a goal. My blessings are my family who never told me that the things I was willing to do to make things happen, might have seemed extreme and definitely unconventional.

I worked twelve hour shifts while passing kidney stones, held a dying baby at work while miscarrying my own. There was no one available to relieve me thanks to this nursing shortage.

Blessings? Luck?

I don't believe in luck for the most part...I believe we pave our own path. I did like you did..worked full time and took call( as a surgical tech) while I was in nursing school. I worked evenings too, so that meant going to class/clinical for 8 hours and then working until 11pm. I lived on coffee and Red Bull, and slept about 4 hours a night.

But, I graduated( with honors too). There are always going to be people that make excuses why they can't get ahead. I'm not the healthiest person, I have a chronic digestive condition, but I suck it up and go to work. If there are blessings in my life, they are things like having parents that instilled a good work ethic in me and my sense of determination.

 

[dvcgirl]

There is a certain amount of luck involved. Its more than just hard work and frugality. You have to be lucky enough to no be unlucky. A house growing mold that needs mold abatement, an illness that sets you back $50k in out of pocket expenses, a job loss that leaves you unemployed and unable to even find work as a pizza delivery person, a needed job relocation when you have to sell your house at a loss.

And, while I'm a huge fan of financial security, I wouldn't deprive myself in order to "be a millionaire." Nor would I work two jobs in order to do it. You need to have balance in your life.

I agree with you, that luck has something to do with....luck and timing.

For us, timing was big with respect to my husband's career and our real estate purchases. For my DH, he worked as a software developer and was moving up the ladder during the technology boom in the mid 90s. His company was handing out stock options like candy and as a result we got a huge head start....more money in a few lump sums than we ever thought was possible. Not crazy money....but a few hundred grand each time after taxes.

We happened to come into this money when the real estate boom was taking off. We were able to pay cash for our first house and it *doubled* in four years. We took about 75% of just the profit on that first house and bought our second house and even that went up 33% in 3 years...even though we were in Orlando those three years.

So a lot of that was luck and simply being in the right place at the right time. A 24 year old starting out now in my DH's industry would not see the same amount of stock options that my DH got, and he/she would never see the stock market shoot up like it did in the five years between 1995-2000. Those five years absolutely changed our lives...no doubt about it. It was a *huge* head start.

And when will we see houses double in price in a four year period again? Not in my lifetime.

Now, mind you....we were smart enough to cash those options in and diversify our investments. We know many people who never got out...they held on too long and lost all of that money. And we've been pretty savvy with real estate.

And we really do work really hard and are pretty savvy with our finances. Still, I do sometimes think about if we started our journey five years later. We would have missed the tech boom. We would have likely purchased a home later as a result and missed the real estate boom....possibly even buying at exactly the wrong time and owe more on a house than it was worth.

I may not have been able to go off to start my own business as a result of all of this and be unhappy with the job I had before.

So yeah, I think timing/luck has played a role in our success. No doubt about it.

 

[tinker&belle]

I agree with you, that luck has something to do with....luck and timing.

For us, timing was big with respect to my husband's career and our real estate purchases. For my DH, he worked as a software developer and was moving up the ladder during the technology boom in the mid 90s. His company was handing out stock options like candy and as a result we got a huge head start....more money in a few lump sums than we ever thought was possible. Not crazy money....but a few hundred grand each time after taxes.

We happened to come into this money when the real estate boom was taking off. We were able to pay cash for our first house and it *doubled* in four years. We took about 75% of just the profit on that first house and bought our second house and even that went up 33% in 3 years...even though we were in Orlando those three years.

So a lot of that was luck and simply being in the right place at the right time. A 24 year old starting out now in my DH's industry would not see the same amount of stock options that my DH got, and he/she would never see the stock market shoot up like it did in the five years between 1995-2000. Those five years absolutely changed our lives...no doubt about it. It was a *huge* head start.

And when will we see houses double in price in a four year period again? Not in my lifetime.

Now, mind you....we were smart enough to cash those options in and diversify our investments. We know many people who never got out...they held on too long and lost all of that money. And we've been pretty savvy with real estate.

And we really do work really hard and are pretty savvy with our finances. Still, I do sometimes think about if we started our journey five years later. We would have missed the tech boom. We would have likely purchased a home later as a result and missed the real estate boom....possibly even buying at exactly the wrong time and owe more on a house than it was worth.

I may not have been able to go off to start my own business as a result of all of this and be unhappy with the job I had before.

So yeah, I think timing/luck has played a role in our success. No doubt about it.

We had a little luck with timing as well (not nearly as much as yours, but it is a smaller-scale example). We bought during the craziness of 100% financing of homes. We literally had to put $1 down on our home. Looking back it was crazy. We were renters and our new mortgage was not too much more (even with fixed rate interest) than our rent.

We bought right before prices went up here after Katrina, and they have stayed higher than we bought. We refinanced when rates were low last year which made our house payment even more affordable. We were able to get rid of PMI which was HUGE. If we had bought what they TOLD us we *COULD* afford when we bought it would have been bad judgement.

Our timing was luckier than if we had bought the following year or even now when prices are high (there are still higher here, we couldn't buy the smallest house in the neighborhood for what we paid for a midsized home) and we would have had to rent for just a little less than we pay now and save for a very long time to get a down payment. It wasn't the greatest system for the nation overall and it was certainly built on a house of cards, but it was a fortunate situation for us.

So our house payment is a small part of our income, but it was a combo of good choices, timing and luck.

 

[MrsPete]

I don't believe in luck for the most part...I believe we pave our own path. I did like you did..worked full time and took call( as a surgical tech) while I was in nursing school. I worked evenings too, so that meant going to class/clinical for 8 hours and then working until 11pm. I lived on coffee and Red Bull, and slept about 4 hours a night.

I both agree and disagree . . .

It was luck that I was born with a healthy body and a good brain. It was luck that I was born to a mother who didn't drink or use drugs. I was born into a white family, so I didn't have to fight certain battles. It was luck that I was born in America, where even a poor kid has a chance to earn an education. Later on, I had the good fortune to have children who were born healthy and intelligent. Sure, people who aren't born with these same benefits succeed . . . but they have to work even harder to do so. They have more obstacles placed in their path.

I did nothing to make these things happen -- they were luck, they were blessings. I cannot claim any responsibility, but those things made my life immensely easier.

On the other hand, I worked very hard to get myself out of poverty: Statistics say that a girl raised in my childhood circumstances was very likely to have a child out of wedlock, never rise above a low-level office job, and marry a person with a drug habit. I did none of those things. I lived frugally, put myself through college, avoided debt, etc. Those things were not luck. They were good planning and hard work.

So really, I think most successful people are a combination of good luck and hard work.

Timing . . . that's another yes and no question . . .

All of us are products of our generation. Raised in the 80s, I think we had immense pressure to spend, spend, spend on credit -- I think more pressure than there is now. Money was supposedly easy to get, so why bother to save? Yes, we had some great years in the stock market, but we lost much of that later, so it wasn't much of a long-term profit. We had an easy time finding jobs, but we paid 10%+ to finance house or car. Every generation has its benefits and its problems.

 

[MrsPete]

It's easy to view this as a false dichotomy: either you vacation at Disney, or you live a miserable vacation-free life.

Yeah, people use the "I want to enjoy my life while I'm young" excuse to avoid being financially responsible. It's very possible to have great vacations on a budget AND STILL save for those very important responsibilites.

 

[MrsPete]

I would love to be debt free, but not willing to make the sacrafice. My kids are 6 and 8 If I were to eat "rice and Beans" like dave likes to say for the next 10 years to pay off my mortgage. I may have a great retirement but my kids would have a really crappy childhood. Not to mention I woud miss out on some great vacation memories with my kids. Definetly not worth it. You gotta enjoy life just not go to overboard.

I did have the "rice and beans" childhood -- sometimes we had some government butter and cheese. It was pretty crappy at times, but it wasn't because my parents were sacraficing and saving: It was because my father was an alcoholic who quit working and my mother had stayed home for years and allowed her work skills to become obsolete.

My husband and I have sacrificed to pay off our mortgage early and to save for college and retirement. However, since we've avoided debt, we have been able to do that AND provide a great childhood for our children. They've been on many vacations (though they've been moderate in price), they live in a stable home and are not concerned about food, clothing, insurance, etc. And they won't have to choose between community college or a lifetime of debt for themselves. They won't be forced to care for us financially in our old age.

You don't have to choose between responsibility and misery. The key is to begin early, have a financial plan, and avoid debt.

 

[danielephant]

well we used to "eat" our money seriously, we went out to eat ALL THE TIME and so i can say we ATE our money...so as of this month i cut out going out to eat all together and we are using our going out to eat money on saving for 4 months to do a 4 night 5 day stay at disney, this is our first trip so i thought it would be a great goal for 4 months to keep us on track. So far i am doing great at making dinner every night, DH however is able to quickly wave whatever i had planned and run down to the local dairy shack to get a gyro LOL...this WILL stop! lol

but yes every thing you listed and the out to eat thing, since we now have a stict envelope system type budget

 

[rockiesfan]

I both agree and disagree . . .

It was luck that I was born with a healthy body and a good brain. It was luck that I was born to a mother who didn't drink or use drugs. I was born into a white family, so I didn't have to fight certain battles. It was luck that I was born in America, where even a poor kid has a chance to earn an education. Later on, I had the good fortune to have children who were born healthy and intelligent. Sure, people who aren't born with these same benefits succeed . . . but they have to work even harder to do so. They have more obstacles placed in their path.

I did nothing to make these things happen -- they were luck, they were blessings. I cannot claim any responsibility, but those things made my life immensely easier.

On the other hand, I worked very hard to get myself out of poverty: Statistics say that a girl raised in my childhood circumstances was very likely to have a child out of wedlock, never rise above a low-level office job, and marry a person with a drug habit. I did none of those things. I lived frugally, put myself through college, avoided debt, etc. Those things were not luck. They were good planning and hard work.

So really, I think most successful people are a combination of good luck and hard work.

This is an excellent post on the difference between luck and hard work and on the interaction between both. We tell our kids luck is what you start out with, good or bad; your actions and choices, good or bad, will determine where you go from there. And luck isn't a one-time thing, as PPs have pointed out; good or bad circumstances, like the PPs examples of fortunate housing timing or devastating medical emergencies, can happen at any time.

Good for you, MrsPete, in beating those odds!

 

[bettymae1121]

I both agree and disagree . . .

It was luck that I was born with a healthy body and a good brain. It was luck that I was born to a mother who didn't drink or use drugs. I was born into a white family, so I didn't have to fight certain battles. It was luck that I was born in America, where even a poor kid has a chance to earn an education. Later on, I had the good fortune to have children who were born healthy and intelligent. Sure, people who aren't born with these same benefits succeed . . . but they have to work even harder to do so. They have more obstacles placed in their path.

I did nothing to make these things happen -- they were luck, they were blessings. I cannot claim any responsibility, but those things made my life immensely easier.

On the other hand, I worked very hard to get myself out of poverty: Statistics say that a girl raised in my childhood circumstances was very likely to have a child out of wedlock, never rise above a low-level office job, and marry a person with a drug habit. I did none of those things. I lived frugally, put myself through college, avoided debt, etc. Those things were not luck. They were good planning and hard work.

So really, I think most successful people are a combination of good luck and hard work.

Timing . . . that's another yes and no question . . .

All of us are products of our generation. Raised in the 80s, I think we had immense pressure to spend, spend, spend on credit -- I think more pressure than there is now. Money was supposedly easy to get, so why bother to save? Yes, we had some great years in the stock market, but we lost much of that later, so it wasn't much of a long-term profit. We had an easy time finding jobs, but we paid 10%+ to finance house or car. Every generation has its benefits and its problems.

I know for me and my DH, that while we've both worked very hard during our adult lives, that we still benifited from good luck. For example, it was total luck that my company decided to have my division work from home full time just before gas prices spiked in '07. This not only saved us the cost of me driving to work every day, but it also allowed my DH to take my gas sipping sedan to his job (80 miles round trip daily) rather than his gas-hog truck. So while people suddenly had to cut back on food and cable to pay $4 a gallon for gas that summer, we saw our expenses actually go down. My working from home also saves money on clothes (no more work clothes) and eating out (I brought part of my lunch each day but would buy salad/soup at the company cafeteria to go with it) and wear and tear on one of our vehicals, as a result we'll be able to keep our car and truck longer, allowing us to save up to (hopefully) buy a late model used car cash rather than start the cycle of car loans again. If/when we have kids, it's going to save us HUGE money on child care. We'll just need a part time in-house sitter vs. a full time day care center. The cost savings this lucky oprotunity are almost too many to count!

This is a great example of "lucK" in ones life. While I do work hard at my job, it wasn't anything I or my co-workers did that had our company decide to move us to full-time telecommutte status, they just ran out of room at the office and it made the most sense to move my division off-site.

 

[crisi]

On unlucky....

Friends had two fairly well paying jobs and a situtation as stable as most when she got pregnant with #2. But the baby has cerebal palsy, the economy tanked, her job was cut to part time hours and his disappeared.

Now they have major medical expenses and part time incomes. His only employment has been contract - no insurance.

 

[mysanchez]

My husband and I lived our lives as most people do, many credit cards and lots of balances at high interest rates. We thought while raising kids you were supposed to have 2 car payments, a mortgage, and no savings. Our first two vacations to Disney were in 85 and 87, we drove from Texas and stayed off property and put most of it on credit cards. Long story short in 1998 we decided to cancel our credit cards and pay them off. Shortly after, we bought a waterfront lot and in 2002 built the house we have always wanted. Yes, we still have a mortgage, but we pay for all trips to Disney with money we have saved in a dedicated savings account. While I will never put a trip on a credit card again I understand how easy it is to do so.

 

[DSNY4ever]

My husband has tried to correct me from using the phrase "we can't afford that" to "it's not in our budget right now" because he said it makes people think we don't have any money.

We have no debt (other than our mortgage, obviously), we pay off our credit card 100% every month and we live on a budget that we have set that allows us to put $ into saving every month. If we cut down on our budget and don't have any large, out of the ordinary, expenses coming up, then we "can afford it" and we go! But we travel a lot of other places too and our budget usually only allows for one big trip a year.

 

[MissBritt]

4: We don't stop or reduce our tithes and offerings, in fact we increase them.

Didn't read all13 pages, but I wanted to commend you on this!!!

 

[walkdmc]

Since our first son was born, we've become pretty responsible with money. Before that, we used to burn through it like crazy. We had no savings, only minimum required retirement, etc. Basically, we lived the way probably 98% of young single people live.

After kids, we don't take vacations we can't pay cash for. We try not to finance anything but our house. We have savings and are on track for a nice retirement (but we're 38 and 42, who knows what will happen in the next 25 years).

I knew a family who took a Disney vacation and came home to a dark house because they couldn't afford their electric bill. That's stupid, regardless of how you think you can rationalize it. They clearly could not afford the vacation.

I think if you can pay your bills, contribute to your savings and retirement and have some type of health insurance, anything else could be used as occasional play money. I don't think you need to have the requisite 6 months living expenses in the bank or 1M in retirement savings in order to take a vacation. If that were the case, most people would stop vacationing.

 

[LovableGluttons]

My husband has tried to correct me from using the phrase "we can't afford that" to "it's not in our budget right now" because he said it makes people think we don't have any money.

We have no debt (other than our mortgage, obviously), we pay off our credit card 100% every month and we live on a budget that we have set that allows us to put $ into saving every month. If we cut down on our budget and don't have any large, out of the ordinary, expenses coming up, then we "can afford it" and we go! But we travel a lot of other places too and our budget usually only allows for one big trip a year.

I am just the opposite. I use the "I cant afford it" line because I don't often want to readjust my budget to accomodate an unexpected purchase.People assuming I am poor makes me feel good.

If I haven't budgeted for it, then I cannot afford it.

 

[rockundergirl]

I am just the opposite. I use the "I cant afford it" line because I don't often want to readjust my budget to accomodate an unexpected purchase.People assuming I am poor makes me feel good.

If I haven't budgeted for it, then I cannot afford it.

I'm sure you don't do this... however I have this one friend that i don't speak to anymore because she cried poverty all the time. She would do things like come out to hang with us then say she couldn't afford to have a drink, then one of us dummies would buy her one out of feeling bad she was sitting thr while we enjoyed our drink.. later down the line we found out she was actually in a much better money situ then any of us.. she would just say " i can't afford it/ I have no money" which is fine... till you start accepting gifts from other people under false statements..

 

[MissBritt]

Okay, NOW I have read through all the replies. Just some thoughts...

1. Why is it comical that people claim to pay off their credit cards in full each month? I don't see everyone claiming they do. A far higher number carry a revolving balance, but don't admit it. Laughing about someone being responsible with credit is silly to me. We have never paid a penny of interest on a credit purchase, and I don't intend to unless something truly devastating happens and wipes us out completely, God forbid.

2. I also believe that tithing and giving offerings is important. When we made a decision as a couple to pay a full 10% of our gross income to the church, we were more blessed financially, spiritually, and emotionally than we had been when we didn't tithe or only gave a bit here and there.

3. I don't consider a quick trip to WDW a vacation either, only because I live 2 hours away and rarely stay overnight. I consider a vacation a trip that takes us away from home for several days and requires no cooking or cleaning on my part. So my single night at Sports in January was a just a jaunt for me, although it was more a vacation to my teenage brother and sister who I took to celebrate birthdays.

4. Like others here, I don't come from a rich family, but I am lucky in many regards- health, brain, opportunities. I was shaped by my faith, my family, and my generation (80s baby), but I worked hard to get to where I am, as did my husband. I did very well in school and got a now-defunct scholarship that paid 100% tuition to the in-state school of my choice, and I worked 3 part-time jobs at the same time while carrying a full course load to pay for my rent, insurance, gas, and groceries. My parents had 5 kids and one lower-class income and sacrificed a lot to be able to take us to WDW (one day only, driving home the same night) 4 times during my childhood. We carried in frozen bottles of water and shared counter service meals, and enjoyed every second.

5. Affording anything to me depends not only on my current resources, but on my interest or desire. We have a brand new home (purchased in 2008) with a mortgage less than 18% of our income that will be paid off in 13 years, 4 older cars with high mileage but no payments (one is DH's hobby, not currently driveable), and no kids yet (although baby #1 is coming in April!!!). Our only debt besides the house is a $5K privacy fence that is on a Lowe's card, being financed at 0% for 12 months, and will be paid completely before 10 months pass.

This year, after tithes and bills are paid, money is put away each month into TSP, money market, IRA and other savings, we have been able to "afford" the following: dinner out 5 times a month on average, a quick trip to WDW and a night at Sports, a long weekend out of town for a women's church retreat, attending 2 out of state weddings and staying overnight, a new camcorder, throwing my best friend's baby shower, the $500 deductible for fixing my car after it got into a fight with a 5 point buck last week, and later this year a trip to CSR and Cirque with dinner at RR for my birthday, a surprise party for DH's 30th that will run me about $600, and a 5 day cruise for our anniversary. We are also considering buying a flatscreen TV, and DH will likely have a second spinal surgery before the year is up.

I can afford it because I use coupons at the grocery store and save 30-40% each trip, book vacations with discount codes, shop year-round for birthdays and Christmas, buy big-ticket items on sale, keep the lowest plans for satellite and cell service, and plan as far ahead as possible. I can afford to buy a new car, to stay deluxe at WDW, to get Category 1 seating at Cirque, or to go on a longer cruise, but I choose not to spend my money on those things when the ones I have chosen will make me just as happy. Besides, our next trip to WDW probably won't be until this baby is about 4 years old... I'd like to do a week at CBR and go all out. Here's looking at you Rewards Dollars!

 

[Ava]

I'm sure you don't do this... however I have this one friend that i don't speak to anymore because she cried poverty all the time. She would do things like come out to hang with us then say she couldn't afford to have a drink, then one of us dummies would buy her one out of feeling bad she was sitting thr while we enjoyed our drink.. later down the line we found out she was actually in a much better money situ then any of us.. she would just say " i can't afford it/ I have no money" which is fine... till you start accepting gifts from other people under false statements..

I had a friend who was like that, except at the time (right after college) none of us really had any money. We just stopped inviting her places because we knew she'd show up to dinner or wherever, then claim she didn't have any money & sit there drinking water & looking pitiful until one of us offered to buy her something. Not inviting her was easier & less awkward than saying, sorry we can't afford to buy you dinner.

I also have friends whom I have to just not talk to sometimes because they are so irresponsible with money it drives me nuts. They have an 8-month-old DD, and the one of them who was working full-time lost her job a few months ago & hasn't been able to find another full-time position yet. They both have some part-time work now, but not enough to replace the lost income. They also have no savings. Yet they still go out to eat, order take out, go to Starbucks, etc etc. Then cry that they can't afford to buy their DD a new car seat! It takes all my willpower not to say, "Well maybe if you stopped going to Starbucks every day you'd have money to buy the seat." I've tried suggesting gently that they need to keep better track of their spending & cut back on some things until she finds another job, but there is always an excuse for why they need to buy lunch out, etc etc. So I've given up. Thankfully they live in another state so I only talk to them on the phone/online & its easy to ignore the complaining about not having money. (P.S. - The grandparents gifted them the money to buy a new car seat, so they did get one.)

 

[TandLMommy28]

I had a friend who was like that, except at the time (right after college) none of us really had any money. We just stopped inviting her places because we knew she'd show up to dinner or wherever, then claim she didn't have any money & sit there drinking water & looking pitiful until one of us offered to buy her something. Not inviting her was easier & less awkward than saying, sorry we can't afford to buy you dinner.

I also have friends whom I have to just not talk to sometimes because they are so irresponsible with money it drives me nuts. They have an 8-month-old DD, and the one of them who was working full-time lost her job a few months ago & hasn't been able to find another full-time position yet. They both have some part-time work now, but not enough to replace the lost income. They also have no savings. Yet they still go out to eat, order take out, go to Starbucks, etc etc. Then cry that they can't afford to buy their DD a new car seat! It takes all my willpower not to say, "Well maybe if you stopped going to Starbucks every day you'd have money to buy the seat." I've tried suggesting gently that they need to keep better track of their spending & cut back on some things until she finds another job, but there is always an excuse for why they need to buy lunch out, etc etc. So I've given up. Thankfully they live in another state so I only talk to them on the phone/online & its easy to ignore the complaining about not having money. (P.S. - The grandparents gifted them the money to buy a new car seat, so they did get one.)

I cut ties with a friend like this as well. The husband quit his job while they had 2 kids and were pregnant with number three because it was, and I quote, "Boring." Yeah... so state health care and food stamps were apparently more exciting to them than working. Now they are still both only working part-time, on the verge of forclosure, still on Food Stamps and state health care and THEY HAVE A MAID and their kids are in private school. I can't be around that kind of... lack of priorities. Sigh... (I'm sure that the private school is due to low-income scholarship, but the maid? There's no excuse for paying a maid and accepting food stamps when there are THREE able-bodied adults in the house... they took ina roommate to help pay the mortgage).