What do you mean by 'afford it'? Seriously..

[crisi]

I think many of us on this board have varying opinions on what would constitute luck, what would the definition of financial security is. Also, what level of sacrifice would be worth ittoachieve those goals.

Ultimately, for me, I needed to be one who was the hunter as well as the gatherer to feel like I earned it. I was important to my self esteem (ego).

Certainly, but to not acknowledge that there is luck involved does a huge disservice to those that are frugal and hard working, and yet their circumstances continue to conspire against them to keep them from being secure.

 

[LovableGluttons]

Certainly, but to not acknowledge that there is luck involved does a huge disservice to those that are frugal and hard working, and yet their circumstances continue to conspire against them to keep them from being secure.

I don't feel there was luck involved, nor a lack of bad luck. There were some big, unexpected expenses along the way we've had to pay. When setbacks occurred, we just worked more. When my husband couldn't find a job that paid well for two years after he retired from the military, I worked three jobs to keep us on track with our savings goals.

I would have loved to have had more than two children, but stopped at two so we could provide for them and ourselves in the manner WE felt was right for us.

 

[Virgderon]

Hopefully, that's an education that WAS paid for. Not needs to be. Because ideally, you saved throughout their childhood and chose a college that was affordable without loans - even if that is community college.QUOTE]

Umm, nope. Not when you have 4 kids from 2 previous marriages. Only one went to community college. We couldn't possibly save enough, not when in state tuition is 20k a year. The combined total is more than I paid for my house.

It is beyond hard to tell a brilliant child that they will have to go to community college. I wasn't willing to do it.

By the way, the New York Times reports that the average college student is now graduating with about $23,000 in loans, and there is a 10.6 unemployment rate for new grads. Let's not even talk about the number of them that are not employed in their major, and are working retail or at Starbucks.

My kids held up their end of the bargain. They got the grades and got merit scholarships. Because we are middle class, the government wasn't giving us any money. Even with their merit scholarships and the pre-paid tuition savings, we could not pay cash for their college.

"Certainly, but to not acknowledge that there is luck involved does a huge disservice to those that are frugal and hard working, and yet their circumstances continue to conspire against them to keep them from being secure. "

You bet- this I can agree with totally. I never thought my college educated , computer programmer husband would be laid off twice in less than 10 years. Thanks to outsourcing, that is exactly what happened. If we keep sending our jobs to India, there will many college educated computer programmers working at Best Buy.

 

[padawans]

I don't feel there was luck involved, nor a lack of bad luck. There were some big, unexpected expenses along the way we've had to pay. When setbacks occurred, we just worked more. When my husband couldn't find a job that paid well for two years after he retired from the military, I worked three jobs to keep us on track with our savings goals.

I would have loved to have had more than two children, but stopped at two so we could provide for them and ourselves in the manner WE felt was right for us.

If you have have your health and are capable of working 3 jobs you are lucky. It amazes me that some people can't appreciate their blessings. My finances are in order ,but I have had it so easy compared to others. Believe it or not there are some people that can't just work more when bad things happen.

 

[LovableGluttons]

If you have have your health and are capable of working 3 jobs you are lucky. It amazes me that some people can't appreciate their blessings. My finances are in order ,but I have had it so easy compared to others. Believe it or not there are some people that can't just work more when bad things happen.

Do you feel I don't appreciate my blessings or my money. I worked one full time job and two part time jobs in college. There was no financial aid, no student loans, no way for my parents to help. That's not a blessing, just learning to go without rest, sleep, food, if needed
to reach a goal. My blessings are my family who never told me that the things I was willing to do to make things happen, might have seemed extreme and definitely unconventional.

I worked twelve hour shifts while passing kidney stones, held a dying baby at work while miscarrying my own. There was no one available to relieve me thanks to this nursing shortage.

Blessings? Luck?

 

[padawans]

Do you feel I don't appreciate my blessings or my money. I worked one full time job and two part time jobs in college. There was no financial aid, no student loans, no way for my parents to help. That's not a blessing, just learning to go without rest, sleep, food, if needed
to reach a goal. My blessings are my family who never told me that the things I was willing to do to make things happen, might have seemed extreme and definitely unconventional.

I worked twelve hour shifts while passing kidney stones, held a dying baby at work while miscarrying my own. There was no one available to relieve me thanks to this nursing shortage.

Blessings? Luck?

Blessings. If your a nurse I'm sure your see people everyday with major health problems that can't work. I am also a nurse I've seen it all and yes I feel blessed that I have a job and am healthy enough to go to it. To me being able to work is a blessing . The fact that I'm breathing is a blessing.I guess I just look at things differently. Sorry I just can't put you on the pedestal you wan't to be put on.

 

[LovableGluttons]

Blessings. If your a nurse I'm sure your see people everyday with major health problems that can't work. I am also a nurse I've seen it all and yes I feel blessed that I have a job and am healthy enough to go to it. To me being able to work is a blessing . The fact that I'm breathing is a blessing.I guess I just look at things differently. Sorry I just can't put you on the pedestal you wan't to be put on.

I would never expect, nor want to be placed on some silly pedestal. I would never dispute that there are indeed people who cannot work due to tragedy.

My acknowledgement that the reason I am in the financial position I am in now is due to hard work, planning, and sacrifice. Those things were done willingly over many, many years.


No pedestals, nothing as glamorous as that.

 

[jodifla]

I wouldn't want to be a millionaire if it meant I couldn't enjoy the first 40 or 50 years of my life. What's the point in that? Having a bunch of money when you are too old to enjoy it?

I prefer a more balanced life than one obsessed with savings.

 

[Marionnette]

I wouldn't want to be a millionaire if it meant I couldn't enjoy the first 40 or 50 years of my life. What's the point in that? Having a bunch of money when you are too old to enjoy it?

I prefer a more balanced life than one obsessed with savings.

Ouch! That stings! You must be well under the age of forty to think that somehow that is too old to enjoy the fruits of your labors. And for your information, fifty is fabulous. Kids are grown. Jobs is stable. We can take upscale vacations and dont need to bring the kiddos with us. Leaving for a mediterranean cruise on saturday. We can do this because we have been careful with our money from day one. Gee. I hope that Im not too old to enjoy it.

 

[inkedupmomma]

Ouch! That stings! You must be well under the age of forty to think that somehow that is too old to enjoy the fruits of your labors. And for your information, fifty is fabulous. Kids are grown. Jobs is stable. We can take upscale vacations and dont need to bring the kiddos with us. Leaving for a mediterranean cruise on saturday. We can do this because we have been careful with our money from day one. Gee. I hope that Im not too old to enjoy it.

While I agree that was a bit of an ouch statement, I have to say, I want to enjoy my travel time with my kids. I most certainly look forward to kid free vacations when I am older, but I right now, I look forward to the vacations I have with my kids. They are priceless to me!

 

[Brian Noble]

1: We don't touch our normal monthly budget at all.
2: We don't touch the emergency funds
3; We haven't stopped our planned savings for retirement
4: We don't stop or reduce our tithes and offerings, in fact we increase them.

That's a pretty good list.

I wouldn't want to be a millionaire if it meant I couldn't enjoy the first 40 or 50 years of my life. What's the point in that? Having a bunch of money when you are too old to enjoy it?

It's easy to view this as a false dichotomy: either you vacation at Disney, or you live a miserable vacation-free life. Nothing can be further from the truth. Our first many years as a couple (and quickly thereafter, young family) were lean. We were able to pay our bills and fund our retirment and college savings accounts, but did not have a lot left over at the end of the month. Our vacations during these years mostly consisted of long weekends visiting attractions in nearby cities (zoos, science museums, our local amusement park, etc.) In some years, we would take one larger trip to the North Carolina coast, splitting a house with family to keep the costs down. As our financial resources grew, our ability to take vacations grew along with it. But, those memories aren't "better" than the ones from those early days---just more expensive. In fact, some of our most oft-told "vacation stories" come from our trips to Traverse City, Toledo, and Sandusky; not Orlando and Anaheim. And, we still do drive-to vacations that are less expensive than Disney at least half the time. Love them all.

Edited to add: even some of our "at-home" traditions have built priceless memories. For example, I take my daughter to the opening game of each Michigan football season for her birthday. I have since she was four. This past weekend, we went to our ninth opening-day game together. Even something as simple (and as relatively inexpensive) as game day has its own traditions and memories that I cherish.

 

[Marionnette]

While I agree that was a bit of an ouch statement, I have to say, I want to enjoy my travel time with my kids. I most certainly look forward to kid free vacations when I am older, but I right now, I look forward to the vacations I have with my kids. They are priceless to me!

Its not as if our kids didnt have wonderful vacations when they were young. We took them to places and gave them experiences that some adults only dream of. But all of those trips were paid for up front and not at the expense of funding retirement, college or putting food on the table. They certainly werent denied much while growing up or even now.

 

[jodifla]

Ouch! That stings! You must be well under the age of forty to think that somehow that is too old to enjoy the fruits of your labors. And for your information, fifty is fabulous. Kids are grown. Jobs is stable. We can take upscale vacations and dont need to bring the kiddos with us. Leaving for a mediterranean cruise on saturday. We can do this because we have been careful with our money from day one. Gee. I hope that Im not too old to enjoy it.

Uh, no, I'm actually pushing 50 myself these days. And I have plenty of friends who are going through chemo now, a real wake-up call about the fragility of life. I have acquaintances who are passing away in their mid 60s. So some of my friends in their 50s would enjoy the Med cruise, but I know at least a half-dozen who'd have to cancel because of their chemo appointments.

I believe in living as you go. You never know how long you have in life.

Again, there's a way to do it with balance. We did Europe, and the Caribbean, and other world trips before we had kids...(we had our son late in life). And we focused on our careers, building up our savings. And we build up our assets.

So we've never had to do the "gazelle" living, because we've just lived modestly as we go, taking on one luxury purchase at a time, paying it off, moving on to the next one. Vacations are our biggest indulgence....we keep our cars 10 years or more, and our furniture 20 or 30 years or more.

We now focus more on U.S. trips since our son is young...we'll return to the big adult trips once he's older. We did things in a different order, and it's worked for us.

Enjoy your cruise. It sounds like a lot of fun.

 

[Colleen27]

I wouldn't want to be a millionaire if it meant I couldn't enjoy the first 40 or 50 years of my life. What's the point in that? Having a bunch of money when you are too old to enjoy it?

I prefer a more balanced life than one obsessed with savings.

It isn't even about being too old to enjoy it, for me. I expect I'll be healthy enough to enjoy my money well into my 70s and probably 80s. It is about wanting to enjoy this phase life with my kids, not saving-saving-saving to start enjoying life when they've long since moved on to start their own lives and families. And realistically that's what it would take for us to retire millionaires, since we have a distinctly average household income (in the national/statistical sense, not the DIS sense - by DIS standards, I think we're poor ).

 

[jodifla]

It isn't even about being too old to enjoy it, for me. I expect I'll be healthy enough to enjoy my money well into my 70s and probably 80s. It is about wanting to enjoy this phase life with my kids, not saving-saving-saving to start enjoying life when they've long since moved on to start their own lives and families. And realistically that's what it would take for us to retire millionaires, since we have a distinctly average household income (in the national/statistical sense, not the DIS sense - by DIS standards, I think we're poor ).

Yes, you actually put it better than I did.

Although I will say that while I was once just sure I'd life to be 85 (for some reason, the number I had in my head) seeing 60somethings die, and watching the 80-year-olds around me, made me re-evaluate.

 

[eliza61]

It isn't even about being too old to enjoy it, for me. I expect I'll be healthy enough to enjoy my money well into my 70s and probably 80s. It is about wanting to enjoy this phase life with my kids, not saving-saving-saving to start enjoying life when they've long since moved on to start their own lives and families. And realistically that's what it would take for us to retire millionaires, since we have a distinctly average household income (in the national/statistical sense, not the DIS sense - by DIS standards, I think we're poor ).

Ditto:

That's pretty much how we view a lot of money issues. Do I want to be totally debt free. sure? do I want to do it by never going on vacation? Nope.
Balance.

 

[dvcgirl]

Believe it or not there are some people that can't just work more when bad things happen.

Well, you just described the financial plan for 1/2 of America. "I'll never have enough anyway, so I'll have now and just keep working".

Well, a lot of Americans won't be able to "keep working". Either because they can't keep a job or won't be able to keep working for health reasons.

Ultimately, whether you can "afford it or not" is a personal decision, but a third party (financial planner) should really help you lay out a yearly budget to help you see what you can and can't afford. A lot of people need that objectivity.

I hear a lot about "finding the balance"....and "vacations are important to us"....and that's all true. Forgetting about car payments, CC debt and all of that.....one really basic and general rule of thumb:

If you're spending most of your money and not saving at least 10% of your income for retirement, then you probably can't afford what you're doing. That's really what it comes down to. That 10% (along with what remains of SS) will provide the most basic of needs in retirement. But it will keep you from extreme poverty.

I really do think that if you aren't saving at least that much of your gross income that on some level you're deluding yourself. If you can't, you can't. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people who are spending that 10% on discretionary spending and not thinking about tomorrow.

 

[crisi]

Balance is big, and balance is going to depend on what your own level of comfort regarding security and your own income is.

I'm a big believer in saving for MY kids college educations, because we can afford to. If we had to drive clunkers, never vacation and never eat out and have a $300 a month grocery bill in order to do so, it wouldn't be a priority for us.

I personally wouldn't work 60 hour weeks to afford to go to Disney - a week vacation is not worth giving up the free time in my normal weeks that I treasure - time to sit in the tub with a book, hang on the DIS, play with my kids, practice my hobbies. I'd work 60 hour weeks if that meant keeping a roof over my kids heads though.

 

[KATODAYO]

This year I have seen my father pass away and my BIL dying from cancer at the age of 53. It's really taught me a lesson about seizing the moment and enjoying what little time you have with your loved ones. I see nothing wrong with enjoying your life and taking vacations while you are still young enough/healthy enough to do so.

While we fund our retirement and pay our bills - I'm not going to let the fear of having a credit card balance or not a big enough 401k stand in my way of enjoying time with my kids. If that means I carry over a balance on my cc and have debt than so be it.

We have college funds for our kids but I truly believe that they will appreciate it more if they have to pay for a portion too. I did and it didn't kill me, it made me a more responsible person. Most of the kids that parents foot the entire bill are ungrateful and most of them are still looking for handouts from Mom and Dad when they are 30.

 

[disykat]

Great post! Until I came to the DIS I'd never heard of anyone taking vacations they couldn't pay for just because of the age of their kids. Honestly, I'd just never heard of it. I had, however, known lots of folks who took scaled back vacations that they COULD affford - camping, etc. We vacation like you, some more expensive ones, but usually less expensive ones - but we ALWAYS vacation. While I can see pushing the limit a bit for a trip you are excited about, it simply never occured to me to take a trip that cost more than what I had in the bank to pay for it.

Since we're far from Disney I know lots of people who have never been and more who've been once or twice. That doesn't mean those people don't vacation and make memories for their family. I can only think of a few people who have been more than a few times, and those are mostly DL not WDW.

I'm always surprised on this board how hot under the collar people get about how "few people on the DIS admit they will go into debt for a vacation." We are on a board full of people who can actually afford (however they define it) to GO to WDW. What do you people expect? While it might not feel like it because the parks are crowded, we are a minority.

There are certainly things I will do that I CAN'T afford (visit a dying relative, get medical care, etc.) and some things I'm willing to go into debt for (a home, a car, educational costs, home repairs, etc.) but I wait to vacation until I can pay for it outright.