Toddler was bitten on arm and skin was broken. FINAL UPDATE #227

[pospisil]

My cousin used to bite all the rest of us cousins when we were kids, I guess he was around 3 at the time. We were in the car one day, and he bit my grampa on the arm. Well, grampa turned and bit him back, and cousin never bit anyone again. What was funny was, grampa didn't have any teeth!

 

[tasha99]

Actually it says the third year of life, not age three, which I take to be the year between 2 and 3 which explains the later remark about by the 3rd birthday (example: 0-1, 1-2, 2-3).

Oops. I think you're right about that. I do think it's somewhere after 2 and before 3 when you can be a little more successful with time outs and discipline. (I did spank my kids. Wouldn't ever bite one, though.)

 

[maymom96]

My son was a biter from the time he was a baby (biting me while nursing). He wasn't in daycare but I provided daycare. I lost one family because of his biting. I tried everything to get him to stop but nothing worked. He finally stopped. But at 14, he still likes the feeling of biting something. He's a weird kid.
My niece was attacked at daycare. Daycare called my SIL and said it wasn't a big deal. Hours later when SIL saw niece, she discovered her eye lid and eyebrow were tore away. Great niece ended up in the hospital having emergency surgery. She will need more in the future. Several more bites were found on her body also. Apparently the attack happened during nap time.

 

[cm8]

When I went to pick my son up off the playground, THE SAME LITTLE BOY WAS BITING HIM AGAIN! I could NOT believe it! He didn't break skin on that bite, but STILL.

Not making lite of the situation, but your son must be very tasty

Nah, just kidding, I would have been upset that he was trying to bite him again For some reason, he seems to have it out for your son and that needs to be dealt with quickly

 

[snowywhite89]

Crapola!

People have been raising children far longer than "Child Development Classes" have existed. "Child Development Classes" could also be translated into "I want you to raise your children the way I want you to raise your children because I am clearly of a higher intellect than you are you low class plebeian".

What a decent into PC.

 

[heatherwillmom]

Obviously this day care doesn't provide adequate supervision if your child was being bitten again. They knew the other child was a problem. They should have been watched more closely. I would pull my child from this day care quickly. Maybe a story in the local newspaper about this would encourage them to improve the supervision. I would even include a picture. Either the day care or the other parents should pay your medical bills. Neither of my kids ever bit except once each. My DD who is 2 years older than my son, bit him one day. He grabbed her arm & bit her back. Neither ever bit again.

 

[tiggersbombed2]

That's a very disturbing thing to say. How do you deal with your own child when they do something "bad"?

My daughter was a biter around the age of 18 months. My older one never went through the biting thing so it was new to me. From what I could see she bit people because she was frustrated/angry. At 18 months they cannot verbalize their feelings in the way we would like them to.

The biting phase lasted a little while and then she just matured enough to use words etc.

During the biting phase it wasn't very often but it was enough and I felt bad if she bit another kid.

When it first started she was in a home daycare and the "lady" that ran it bit my DD back to teach her a lesson. This crazy witch left a big bruise complete with teeth marks on my daughter's arm. The abuser was charged by the police with an assault cause bodily harm. The courts eventually dropped the charge because the only eye witness was 3 years old and the child abuse doctor did not want to testify in court that the bite was from an adult even though his report to the police said it was.

Biting a child back does not teach them anything but aggression and it is child abuse.

Perhaps it's not evident in my post. I WANTED to fling the little shedemon trying to attack my child, but I didn't. She ran into me. Didn't bite me either. So the kid knew the difference between an easy mark and someone she couldn't get a tooth in so easily.

There's a difference between feeling a certain way and acting on it. Ultimately you may come to understand it better, but in the heat of the moment you just want to protect your child as best as you can.

 

[marcyinPA]

That is an amazingly condescending and insulting statement. I'd suggest you re-think making statements like that. It makes people react in a manner which is pretty visceral and it's hard to get back.

I'm sorry you found that insulting. It wasn't intended that way. It is just very clear from some of the posts on this thread that people do not understand the normal development of a toddler. I keep seeing the words "little brat", "if someone did that to MY baby", etc. etc. but what is disturbing is that we are talking about a 2 year old, not a 5 or 6 year old here. I've said it once, and I'll repeat it again....this is not about condoning the behavior of biting. This is about UNDERSTANDING WHY they bite. There are many posters of this thread who don't seem to UNDERSTAND. I took child development classes because I had to for my profession. It helped me to understand the WHY. I was able to use that knowledge in my own parenting. Bonus for me. It's not the only way I learned how to parent, but it certainly didn't hurt.

I think people need to remove the emotion from the situation and just understand why this stuff happens, and then work on trying to prevent it.

 

[luvsJack]

Crapola!

People have been raising children far longer than "Child Development Classes" have existed. "Child Development Classes" could also be translated into "I want you to raise your children the way I want you to raise your children because I am clearly of a higher intellect than you are you low class plebeian".

What a decent into PC.

Uh, no. that is not the case at all. It has nothing to do with with how you should raise your child.

And besides just because something has been done a certain why for a billion years, doesn't mean a better way can't come along to make things better.

It does teach you that a child doesn't always bite because they are being mean or agressive. And the child is not being a "monster" or a "savage" but a normal child.

 

[tarheel618]

The daycare I use has a strict no biting policy. First time parent is warned, 2nd time parent must keep the child out of the center for two weeks (cooling off period???) and if it happens again the biting child is let go from the center.

I know this because my child was bite once on the face, thankfully didn't break the skin but was black and blue for a long time.

The director called me at work told me about the situation and was there when I picked up my child and explained to me that the other parent had been contacted and had been made aware of their policy.

 

[tarheel618]

I think people need to remove the emotion from the situation and just understand why this stuff happens, and then work on trying to prevent it.

This is very hard to do when your child has been bitten and has physical evidence of the assault and in the OP case a very bad infection.

Do kids bite yes, but the fact that the next day the same child was biting her child again, is just not okay and the director would have a lot of explaining to do.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...Do kids bite yes, but the fact that the next day the same child was biting her child again, is just not okay and the director would have a lot of explaining to do.

Exactly - then multiply it 6 times. This same child has bitten the OP's child 6 times now. That is not normal, which is the point of the discussion. Biting once or twice, until the bahavior can be caught live and addressed by the parent, is understandable. This is not normal.

 

[LaraK]

I'm sorry you found that insulting. It wasn't intended that way. It is just very clear from some of the posts on this thread that people do not understand the normal development of a toddler. I keep seeing the words "little brat", "if someone did that to MY baby", etc. etc. but what is disturbing is that we are talking about a 2 year old, not a 5 or 6 year old here. I've said it once, and I'll repeat it again....this is not about condoning the behavior of biting. This is about UNDERSTANDING WHY they bite. There are many posters of this thread who don't seem to UNDERSTAND. I took child development classes because I had to for my profession. It helped me to understand the WHY. I was able to use that knowledge in my own parenting. Bonus for me. It's not the only way I learned how to parent, but it certainly didn't hurt.

I think people need to remove the emotion from the situation and just understand why this stuff happens, and then work on trying to prevent it.

Uh, no. that is not the case at all. It has nothing to do with with how you should raise your child.

And besides just because something has been done a certain why for a billion years, doesn't mean a better way can't come along to make things better.

It does teach you that a child doesn't always bite because they are being mean or agressive. And the child is not being a "monster" or a "savage" but a normal child.

I've taken Child Development classes as well. I certainly can cite the stages of development with the best of them....

Strangely, as a parent, I find that learning from me elders and my instincts are exponentially more useful than anything that is learned in a classroom. I've found in my lifetime (which is longer than I choose to admit....I was a "mature" parent) that I've met plenty of rotten parents who have had lots of "Child Development" classes and lots of fantastic parents who haven't had any "formal" classes. Further, I've found that, again in my experience, those who raise their children with the mamby pamby PC crud they teach in those classes tend to raise pampered helpless spoiled brats.

Singing Kumbaya and talking to a two year old about why we shouldn't bite others is not effective. Talking about how a stove is hot doesn't work for a two year old. Using experiential lessons, causing discomfort for a biter (not terrible pain...I'm not a sadist) or dipping a hand into hot (not scalding) water is an effective technique that's been used for thousands of years is a proven technique that would make people in the "Child Development" world nuts.

Here's a suggestion, how about we recognize that emotion is a, dare I say, essential component in parenting. You know, the whole love and attachment thing. Without strong emotion, parenting is ineffective. Along with that strong emotion comes a protective instinct in the parent which is triggered by your child being injured. It's going to cause a reaction, the "momma bear" reaction. That reaction is natural and can not be divorced from a conversation about someone intentionally injuring your child.

 

[tiggersbombed2]

Nicely said Lara. I think we can safely say that no one here wants to injure a child nor see their own child injured. But instinct is instinct, at least for me. And I was MAD. Still didn't injure the other child tho.

 

[marcyinPA]

I've taken Child Development classes as well. I certainly can cite the stages of development with the best of them....

Strangely, as a parent, I find that learning from me elders and my instincts are exponentially more useful than anything that is learned in a classroom. I've found in my lifetime (which is longer than I choose to admit....I was a "mature" parent) that I've met plenty of rotten parents who have had lots of "Child Development" classes and lots of fantastic parents who haven't had any "formal" classes. Further, I've found that, again in my experience, those who raise their children with the mamby pamby PC crud they teach in those classes tend to raise pampered helpless spoiled brats.

Singing Kumbaya and talking to a two year old about why we shouldn't bite others is not effective. Talking about how a stove is hot doesn't work for a two year old. Using experiential lessons, causing discomfort for a biter (not terrible pain...I'm not a sadist) or dipping a hand into hot (not scalding) water is an effective technique that's been used for thousands of years is a proven technique that would make people in the "Child Development" world nuts.

Here's a suggestion, how about we recognize that emotion is a, dare I say, essential component in parenting. You know, the whole love and attachment thing. Without strong emotion, parenting is ineffective. Along with that strong emotion comes a protective instinct in the parent which is triggered by your child being injured. It's going to cause a reaction, the "momma bear" reaction. That reaction is natural and can not be divorced from a conversation about someone intentionally injuring your child.

Well, obviously a parent is wired to protect their child (in most cases) and I would be worried if they didn't. What I mean about removing the emotion are the emotionally charged comments I've read on here....referring to a 2 year old as a little brat, suggesting to hire an attorney , and biting a child back (in the heat of the moment, no less!). People tend to freak out, rather than see the issue for what it is and deal with it. Nobody said that nothing should be done about a habitual biter. But handling the situation in an emotionally charged way is NOT going to solve the problem. Would I be upset if my child were bit by another child? Of course I would be. But I would also be able to look at the other child with compassion, knowing that most likely, he was expressing himself in this unacceptable way for any number of reasons. I wouldn't condone the biting, but I would certainly work with the school/parents to try to understand the reasons and then solve the problem.

FWIW, my son WAS bit at the age of 3 by his best buddy, who was also 3. I was friends with the little guy's mom. This kid had a vocabulary larger than some adults I know, but he was socially "not there" yet. He bit out of frustration over a toy. It happened in preschool. They dealt with it (and not by biting him back!) and he didn't do it again as far as I know. My friend was MORTIFIED. Because I know that kids do this sometimes, I was able to be compassionate to her and to him. He was not the little monster or brat or savage...he was simply a three year old who did not have the reasoning to channel his frustrations appropriately.

 

[horseshowmom]

And besides just because something has been done a certain why for a billion years, doesn't mean a better way can't come along to make things better.

It does teach you that a child doesn't always bite because they are being mean or agressive. And the child is not being a "monster" or a "savage" but a normal child.

It also doesn't mean whatever is "new and recommended" is better either.

As far as your quoting Dr. Rosemond's use of the word savage, some of the definitions listed in the Free Dictionary for savage are "To attack without restraint or pity", "Lacking polish or manners", and "Not domesticated or cultivated". Obviously, there are other definitions as well, but his use of the word savage doesn't have to be taken as an insult.

I've taken Child Development classes as well. I certainly can cite the stages of development with the best of them....

Strangely, as a parent, I find that learning from me elders and my instincts are exponentially more useful than anything that is learned in a classroom. I've found in my lifetime (which is longer than I choose to admit....I was a "mature" parent) that I've met plenty of rotten parents who have had lots of "Child Development" classes and lots of fantastic parents who haven't had any "formal" classes.

I tend to agree. My mother never took one child development class in her life (as I said earlier, I have a bachelor's and a master's in education so I certainly have), and she reared two law abiding hard working children who knew better than to throw fits and misbehave without knowing full well there would be consequences.

I have other family members who were also reared that way, however it's interesting how the more educated a few of them got (not most by any stretch), the more psychobabble they produced, and the more obvious their own children's behavior deviated from appropriate behavior (always with the proper excuses, of course).

Nobody is saying that biting isn't a part of some children's development (certainly not all though), but we are saying it needs to be stopped. To quote Dr. Rosemond's article, "Why are so many of today's 3-year-olds still acting like toddlers? Because their well-intentioned parents/caretakers employ discipline that isn't powerful enough to turn the trick, that's why."

Nobody is advocating child abuse, but unfortunately, people have gotten to the point where correction of inappropriate behavior is viewed that way. I see it in schools every day and in public places as well (restaurants, theaters, etc.). JMHO

ETA: None of this applies to daycare workers, of course, because they don't have that authority.

 

[Magpie]

I've taken Child Development classes as well. I certainly can cite the stages of development with the best of them....

Strangely, as a parent, I find that learning from me elders and my instincts are exponentially more useful than anything that is learned in a classroom. I've found in my lifetime (which is longer than I choose to admit....I was a "mature" parent) that I've met plenty of rotten parents who have had lots of "Child Development" classes and lots of fantastic parents who haven't had any "formal" classes. Further, I've found that, again in my experience, those who raise their children with the mamby pamby PC crud they teach in those classes tend to raise pampered helpless spoiled brats.

Singing Kumbaya and talking to a two year old about why we shouldn't bite others is not effective. Talking about how a stove is hot doesn't work for a two year old. Using experiential lessons, causing discomfort for a biter (not terrible pain...I'm not a sadist) or dipping a hand into hot (not scalding) water is an effective technique that's been used for thousands of years is a proven technique that would make people in the "Child Development" world nuts.

Here's a suggestion, how about we recognize that emotion is a, dare I say, essential component in parenting. You know, the whole love and attachment thing. Without strong emotion, parenting is ineffective. Along with that strong emotion comes a protective instinct in the parent which is triggered by your child being injured. It's going to cause a reaction, the "momma bear" reaction. That reaction is natural and can not be divorced from a conversation about someone intentionally injuring your child.

Dipping a child's hand in hot water is a *very* dangerous thing to do. It's a lot easier to scald a child's thin skin than an adult's and the whole "finger test" can be very misleading (as you should know if you've ever climbed into a shower and found it a heck of a lot hotter than you thought it was when you stuck your hand in).

Besides, in the heat of the moment, in your anger at the child, it's entirely too easy to make the water a little TOO hot, because you REALLY want to teach the child a lesson they'll remember.

There was a toddler in the news just recently who went into shock and died, because his mother had dipped him into hot water and scalded him. I'm assuming he'd probably messed himself, and she made the water hot in order to teach him a lesson while she scrubbed him.

The thing is, this sort of thing doesn't just happen to babies and toddlers. Old people and psychiatric patients and disabled people and prisoners have also all been scalded at one time or another by their keepers and caregivers. People just don't realize just how dangerous (and hideously painful) hot water can be.

I'd never recommend anyone do that to a child. I'm not keen on putting hot sauce on their tongues, or washing their mouths out with soap, or most of the other "traditional" punishments. I think it's quite possible, by and large, to discipline children without deliberately inflicting pain on them. I don't care if it worked in the past. My teenagers are great kids, so I figure I did okay.

 

[luvsJack]

Exactly - then multiply it 6 times. This same child has bitten the OP's child 6 times now. That is not normal, which is the point of the discussion. Biting once or twice, until the bahavior can be caught live and addressed by the parent, is understandable. This is not normal.

It can certainly be normal. What is needed is some knowledge as to why this child keeps going after the OP's child and where on earth is the caregiver. 6 times = little supervision. Rather than ridding itself of the child, the center may need to rid itself of caregivers that are not supervising the children properly.

 

[LaraK]

Dipping a child's hand in hot water is a *very* dangerous thing to do. It's a lot easier to scald a child's thin skin than an adult's and the whole "finger test" can be very misleading (as you should know if you've ever climbed into a shower and found it a heck of a lot hotter than you thought it was when you stuck your hand in).

Besides, in the heat of the moment, in your anger at the child, it's entirely too easy to make the water a little TOO hot, because you REALLY want to teach the child a lesson they'll remember.

There was a toddler in the news just recently who went into shock and died, because his mother had dipped him into hot water and scalded him. I'm assuming he'd probably messed himself, and she made the water hot in order to teach him a lesson while she scrubbed him.

The thing is, this sort of thing doesn't just happen to babies and toddlers. Old people and psychiatric patients and disabled people and prisoners have also all been scalded at one time or another by their keepers and caregivers. People just don't realize just how dangerous (and hideously painful) hot water can be.

I'd never recommend anyone do that to a child. I'm not keen on putting hot sauce on their tongues, or washing their mouths out with soap, or most of the other "traditional" punishments. I think it's quite possible, by and large, to discipline children without deliberately inflicting pain on them. I don't care if it worked in the past. My teenagers are great kids, so I figure I did okay.

I would agree that when you are angry is NOT the time to employ experiential discipline techniques. In fact...when you are angry is not the time in discipline in general. If the adult is out of control, the discipline is ineffective. That said, I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say that I've never reacted in anger...I would not, however, do something like this when angry.

BTW...hot water is dangerous....anyone with kids should have the hot water heater set at no more than 120 for that reason. I would never advocate causing a burn in a child...it just seems like that is what people jump to when talking about aversion discipline....it's all "child abuse"...it's not, it's helping kids understand. It shouldn't be punitive it should help to make the point.

 

[Soccerpooh]

OP- just out of curiosity, is your child 1 or 2 years old? Do you know what the child to staff ratio is in his room? Assuming it is a licensed center in the state of Florida, the ratio for 1's is 6:1, and for 2's it is 11:1 . If by chance he is in a 2's class 11 2 year olds for 1 teacher is crazy! The national average ratio is for 1's is somewhere around 5:1, and for 2's 6 or 7:1.

No matter what the ratio in childcare is, biting does happen. But if there is a lot of children and not enough teachers, the chance of stopping it before it happens greatly increases. I was a childcare director for 11 years, and dealing with biters was the trickiest part of the job- not fun at all. If this happened to me while I was a Director, I would have fully expected to be confronted about it. I would make sure to ask about supervision and the ratio. In my state it is 5:1 for both 1 and 2's, but in reality, for 12 to 24 month olds, 4:1 would be much more confortable.