To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

[Dis5150]

Awesome job! I loved reading your recap! You are so inspiring! Enjoy your 2 weeks off.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Great job @DopeyBadger! Wind is one of the toughest elements to battle in a race and to throw it in at mile 20...yikes. You battled through and never quit, and look at that time! Congratulations on a great result, all of your hard work has paid off. Awesome job Will

Thanks! I agree wind is just one of those things that there isn't much you can do about it. Best bet is to try and tuck in behind a group and draft to save energy. Worked for the first Northern section when we had the half marathoners, but once it was the second Northern section it wasn't as easy because of the lack of other people. Agreed that it didn't help that it was at the point where you generally "hit the wall". I'll take it though as I am still in shock. I had little doubt in my mind when I looked at my watch at mile 25 that it was going to be over 3:45. I was just floored to see 3:15. It just reemphasizes that I'm getting better. Excited for the next training cycle.

Awesome job! I loved reading your recap! You are so inspiring! Enjoy your 2 weeks off.

Thank you, I appreciate that! I am enjoying my two weeks off. Already eaten more sweets and tasty food (let's see: pizza, peanut butter sandwich, chocolate chip muffin, dove bar ice cream, ice cream from sassy cow, dove bar ice cream, sausage/cheese/triscuits and tonight are brats) the last 3 days then I had in the prior 3 months. Gained 8 pounds since last week Thursday, but that's just my bodies normal reaction to a marathon. Need to gain weight these 2 weeks to have enough in the tank for the next cycle. I know I'm going to need to rest up because this next training cycle will be my most ambitious yet. I'm enjoying the extra time with Gigi as well.

 

[emilyindisney]

Awesome job- congrats!! Hope you're enjoying your free time these two weeks

 

[DopeyBadger]

Awesome job- congrats!! Hope you're enjoying your free time these two weeks

Thanks! I am enjoying this time off. I know my muscles enjoy the time off too because they're still sore.

 

[RunDisneyDad]

but once it was the second Northern section it wasn't as easy because of the lack of other people.

Just remember the faster you get the fewer people there are who can keep up with you!

 

[Ariel484]

Seriously great recap - really fun to read. Such a bummer about that photo-bomber!!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Just remember the faster you get the fewer people there are who can keep up with you!

That's a really good point. I actually saw the leaders at one point late in the race when they were headed North. They looked miserable trying to break the wind all alone. I found one of them on Strava and used a really neat feature that recaps my run and a bunch of others live at the same time. It was sad to see him doing so well and then was doing 15-17 minute miles towards the end.

Seriously great recap - really fun to read.

Thank you, I appreciate it. I took a page out of @roxymama 's playbook. I knew I had a lot to live up to and tried to memorize as many of the events as possible.

Such a bummer about that photo-bomber!!

LOL, right!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Here are a couple of race pics:

This was at Mile 25 when that guy was drafting on me. You can tell my headphones are going crazy because of the wind.


Yea, and so the hair. I guess when you have 30mph winds it tends to do some crazy stuff to your hair. Compare that to the pre-race pic to see how much my hair is flying.



I guess maybe I was in a wee-bit of pain at this point. I'm sure I was thinking to myself at this point: WHAT IS WITH THIS WIND?



An interesting running fact:

Disney 5K on 1/8/2015 pace was 7:42 min/mile
Wisconsin Marathon on 5/7/2016 pace from Mile 1 through 19 was 7:34 min/mile.

So in a little more than a year what was my 5K pace was my marathon pace through 19 miles. Crazy!

 

[disneydaydreamer33]

Wow I just read your race recap and I am impressed! Those conditions sound awful for a marathon (I seriously hate running in the wind). You should be really proud of yourself, and I'm happy to see you are giving yourself a little recoup break!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Wow I just read your race recap and I am impressed! Those conditions sound awful for a marathon (I seriously hate running in the wind). You should be really proud of yourself, and I'm happy to see you are giving yourself a little recoup break!

Thanks! I hate the wind too. I think the only condition I hate more is snow/ice on the ground. I think it was fitting to have non-ideal conditions again (like last year) so that it could end up being a true redemption marathon. Happy to take the 2 weeks off because I see it as a critical step in speeding up the recovery process from the marathon. I am really excited about the next training cycle though because I'm going to push myself to the max for my "A" race in October.

 

[roxymama]

Ok, so I think I've discovered the secret to getting volume for my fine hair....I just need to train to run a marathon at a speed fast enough to not have a lot of people to draft and then book a trip to Wisconsin and then let the wind do the rest! That seems easy enough right?

Nice to see the cool new shirt in action btw!

And thanks for the compliments on my race reports. I've never had to remember 26.2 miles worth of information though. I have a feeling if I ever did a marathon that you'd all get really detailed information for about 13 miles and then I would probably just write "and then I continued crawling on my hands and knees for the remainder of the race and no one ever saw me again."

 

[DopeyBadger]

Ok, so I think I've discovered the secret to getting volume for my fine hair....I just need to train to run a marathon at a speed fast enough to not have a lot of people to draft and then book a trip to Wisconsin and then let the wind do the rest! That seems easy enough right?

LOL, that sounds like the PERFECT strategy. I'll email the race director to suggest changing their slogan: "Great race for those extra hair volume pictures you've been dying for!"

Nice to see the cool new shirt in action btw!

Thanks! I think it made a difference because it was so light and tight. Could have just been mental though, which still counts! Amazingly, there was almost no moisture on the singlet when I finished. It really wicked away quite well.

And thanks for the compliments on my race reports. I've never had to remember 26.2 miles worth of information though. I have a feeling if I ever did a marathon that you'd all get really detailed information for about 13 miles and then I would probably just write "and then I continued crawling on my hands and knees for the remainder of the race and no one ever saw me again."

You always do such a great job so I knew I needed to step up my game. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what you can remember during your next longer distance race. Although I completely agree, when I sat down to write about what happened during each mile it was easy to do for the first couple miles. But as the race progressed it became harder and harder to remember all of the details.

 

[opusone]

Amazingly, there was almost no moisture on the singlet when I finished. It really wicked away quite well.

To be fair, I think a cotton shirt might have been completely dry after seven miles in that wind.

 

[DopeyBadger]

To be fair, I think a cotton shirt might have been completely dry after seven miles in that wind.

True, true! I think that's actually a really good point.

 

[DopeyBadger]

2016 Lakefront Marathon Training Plan

Well it's been a week off since the last training cycle ended with the culmination of the Wisconsin Marathon. Overall, the training cycle and marathon itself were successful. But, now it's time to focus ahead and look at the next phase of the training plan. When I mapped out my progress over a year ago it was with the goal to make it to a BQ level (sub-3 hr) by Fall 2017. I felt to meet that I needed to hit sub 4 in Fall 2015, Sub 3:30 in Spring 2016, and Sub 3:15 in Fall 2016. So here we are after meeting the first two thresholds we come to meeting a sub 3:15 in Fall.

I've chosen to run the Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon. Originally, the plan was to run Chicago, but financially it didn't make sense this year. I ran Lakefront last year and enjoyed almost everything about it. Obviously having ideal conditions last year helped color my feelings on the race, but overall it's a perfect time of year, slightly downhill course, and mid-size race (about 4,000 marathoners). It's essentially everything I'm looking for. So without further ado, let's look at the most aggressive training plan I've ever put together.

Training Paces

As always I feel that choosing the right training paces is absolutely key in making sure you reap all the benefits of the workouts, but at the same time minimizing your risk of injury. I choose to train at where I am, not necessarily where I want to be. I choose this method because it allows for gains through my training while minimizing the risk. If I trained faster than I could reap more benefits but I'd also increase my chance for injury to a much higher rate. I could train slower and reduce my injury risk even lower, but that would in turn also reduce my benefits. The key is how to choose paces for my current fitness level. In the past, I've always run what I call a fitness test race about 5-6 weeks prior to my event at about half the distance. This would be a gauge not only for the upcoming race, but also for where my training paces might be most appropriate for the next training cycle. Well, I didn't run a fitness test race this past cycle. My other options are:

1) What I felt comfortable at during training
2) My last race results
3) Some other mixture of comfortable and race results

1) During training I was comfortable at 7:42 for what I believed to be equivalent to a marathon effort. So before the WI Marathon I knew that whatever my time was from the race my new minimum would be a 7:42 MP.
2) My WI Marathon race results ended up being 3:28:35 (7:58 min/mile).
3) The big caveat to my marathon results I believe was the headwind from mile 19-26. So, I've decided that the results from mile 1-19 are most representative of my current fitness level for a marathon. Thus, my training paces will be based on a 7:33 marathon pace or a marathon time goal of 3:17:49.

I plugged 7:33 into my training paces calculator and received the following training paces.



I choose the multiplier line of 3:15 because that's the closest line to my time goal. Then I inputted my marathon tempo, and it spits out my training paces from my easy paces to my speed paces.

Training Plan

Once I have my paces, then it's a matter of figuring out what to do on each day from now until the marathon. The goals of developing the training plan remain the same as before. Even though this will be my most aggressive training plan, it still follows my rules.

1) 80% Easy and 20% Hard. Hard is defined as anything at Marathon Pace or faster.
2) Periodization. Spend about 7-8 weeks in any phase before moving on to the next. This is the point where you've maximized gains in that phase and continuing to do the same workouts wont be as helpful.
3) Keep the longest run's mileage to 30% or less of the week's total mileage

All of these are done in an effort to keep the training plan balanced. Balance the mileage throughout the week. Balance the amount of easy work and hard work. Balance when you're working on a specific muscle system.

I've broken the plan into phases:

A) Recovery
B) Speed
C) Marathon Focused

Each phase serves a different purpose all in an effort to get me in the best shape possible for my marathon.



The dates show the weeks. The number above hard is the weeks remaining until the Lakefront Marathon. The number in yellow is the total weekly mileage. The percentage in red is that percent of mileage from the week's longest run. Lastly, the easy and hard split shows the percentage breakdown.

So, as you know I'm currently taking two weeks off since the Wisconsin Marathon. I do this to allow my body to make a full recovery from the absolute beating it took in the last training cycle and race. After two weeks, I'll start training again (5/21/16). But I won't just jump right into the training plan. I still need another two weeks minimum of easy pacing to get my body back into training shape. Thus, I'll keep the workouts under 60 minutes for another two weeks. When I hit the week of 5/30/16, I'll start to add back in some "Something of Substance" (SOS) workouts. Mileage wise you can see I go from 10 to 34 to 43, but this isn't a concern because it's kept mostly easy and because my body is accustomed to mileage like this. There is no 10% added mileage rule when it comes to coming back right after a previous cycle.



We move into the "Speed" section of the training plan the week of 6/6/16. I consider this the true start of the training. My goal for the first few weeks of the true training was to slowly add in the hard work and to increase the mileage in a 3-week stepwise. I also have a confounding factor of signing up for a local 10K (Hot2Trot) which will effect my training during the week of 6/13. Stepwise the mileage goes 43/48/49 and then 57/61/62. This stepwise pattern allows my body to acclimate to the higher mileage and then bump it up. Once I hit the high end of the training zone, I'll start to alternate between higher mileage and lower mileage to allow for recovery between high weeks. My goal in this section of the training plan is to slowly move all of my training runs to 90 minutes. I believe 90 minutes is that golden training time. The longest run before you don't fully recover before the next run the next day. Thus again, maximize benefits and reduce injury/recovery (notice a theme?). How the 90 minutes is reached varies by the day to keep the plan fun and interesting. I've bumped up my Tempo mileage by one mile from the last training cycle, and I've bumped up my mileage at Speed from 3 miles to 4 miles. We also meet our first green run, which will be the only runs I take in carbohydrates during the actual run itself. All other runs will be done with water.



As we hit July we start to push the boundaries past anything I've done before. The "Hyper Ladder" on 7/12 will be one of the most difficult workouts of the entire plan. The "Speed" phase ends at the beginning of August and moves into the more focused "Marathon Specific" training phase. We hit the maximum training time the week of 8/8 with a max of 2.5 hours. For these training paces, that puts me at 18 miles. I'm a strong believer that 2.5 hours is the threshold of diminishing returns for running. Running longer continues to increase benefits but at an even greater rate increases injury risk and time for recovery.



The meat and potatoes zone of training occurs here with about 8-9 weeks prior to the marathon. Long training sessions and the % of hard/easy starts to dip down below the ideal levels. The plan peaks the week of 9/5.



Yea, the Taper! The taper is about 10 days from marathon day and has a drop in mileage to about 42% of peak. The number of days running remains the same, but the intensity drops within that 10 day window because no more physical gains will be made in time for the event. Now the goal is to recover and maintain the fitness gained. And then, it'll be victory lap time again.

So here is a big summary:





Along the way I'll set new PRs in training miles/time in a week and month. I'm excited. So let's talk goals!

Goals

Hot2Trot 10K
1) Finish in the top 5
2) Age group award (30-39) in top 3
3) Finish before my BIL who is running the 5K
4) Finish with a new PR

As always my goal is to do the best I can on that day. Whatever happens, happens. But these are the things I'm looking forward to. This is a lightly attended local event. It's literally like a few blocks from my house. Last year was the first 10K year and only had 50 people. I want to race close to someone and treat this like a real race to the finish. Thus, goals 1, 2, and 4. The interesting thing is this is a semi-double loop course and the 10K starts 15 minutes prior to the 5K. Which means that if I were to run a 43 minute 10K, then I'd finish with the 28 minute 5Kers. My BIL just so happens to run a 27-28 minute 5K, so my other goal is to see if I can beat him when he's running the other event. Kind of a neat twist.

Lakefront Marathon
1) Do my best

Whatever that comes out to I'm good with that.

So that's that. I love running. It's the only way I'd be able to get through a training plan like this. But I'm actually really excited because I enjoy running everyday. I'm interested to see what happens when I push my body to the limits.

 

[DopeyBadger]

2016 Lakefront Marathon Nutrition Plan

Now to train that many miles and for that long you need a really good diet plan. I believe that as you move from a 3 to 4 to 5 to 6 day a week plan your nutrition plan becomes even more important. You could slack some on getting the proper nutrients with less training, but you're REALLY wasting your time training if you don't eat right during a high mileage plan. The following is what I've come up with for my different phases of my training.

The goals:

Eat about 1.5-2 kg of my body weight in g of protein per day. For me, thats between 108-144 g per day. Protein is the building block of the muscle, so if you skimp again you're only wasting your time. There is a catch. Your body can only absorb about 30-40 g protein per hour. Anything more than that and it just converts to waste and isn't useful like normal protein. So you have to really spread out your intake.



I've made a few changes since I last posted this in January. The biggest change is the move from turkey lunch meat to shredded chicken. I actually found that putting a few chicken breasts in a crock pot on the weekend for a few hours with some broth and then shredding actually makes a super cheap and healthy lunch meat. It's about 1/3 the price of buying lunch meat per pound. The dinner is just kind of a fill-in. I always eat the same breakfast and lunch, but the dinner is where my variety in foods comes from.

As we move into the later phases of the training, I'll need to consume more food. Here's how I'll get there:



I'll add in an extra serving of oatmeal in the morning, a coconut-bananna protein bar (homemade see page 1 for recipe) at lunch and dinner, and lastly 1/2 avacado. This will be my weekday consumption plan. My weekend consumption plan will take it one step further with a pre-run breakfast.



In total, it's a lot of food. But I found after the last two training cycles that actually eating more healthy food made me feel better than trying to diet and train at the same time. So there it is, my training plan for both running and nutrition. I'm hoping these two phases of my training will help me take it to the next level and become the best runner that I can be.

 

[dis_or_dat]

Congrats on your amazing PR and recap and thanks for the in depth posts about your training. I definitely want to read those posts carefully when I start training (just for a half though). A few questions, I see your pace decreased significantly after starting the Hanson's method, is the training regimen you posted similar to it? I just ordered the book. Where did you get your training pace calculator? I'd like to hit a 1:40 half.

 

[opusone]

A few questions, I see your pace decreased significantly after starting the Hanson's method, is the training regimen you posted similar to it? I just ordered the book. Where did you get your training pace calculator? I'd like to hit a 1:40 half.

I'm sure @DopeyBadger will respond, but since I am just starting my 2nd Hansons half marathon training cycle, and I am targeting a 1:40 half as well, I thought I would let you know my training paces based on the Hansons half program (which is slightly different from the full marathon program):

Half Marathon Goal of 1:40
Recovery runs: 10:15/mi pace
Warm-up/Cool down runs and slow easy runs: 9:37/mi pace
Normal easy runs: 8:58/mi pace
Long runs: 8:38/mi pace
Tempo runs: 7:38/mi pace (half marathon goal pace)
Strength runs: 7:18/mi pace (this is 10k pace which is different than the book states, but I am currently using Hansons Coaching Services, and for the half marathon program, they recommend 10k pace instead of half marathon pace less 10 secs/mi which is what the book states)
Speed runs: 7:00/mi pace (5k pace)

 

[DopeyBadger]

Congrats on your amazing PR and recap and thanks for the in depth posts about your training.

Thanks, I appreciate that!

I definitely want to read those posts carefully when I start training (just for a half though). A few questions, I see your pace decreased significantly after starting the Hanson's method, is the training regimen you posted similar to it? I just ordered the book.

The book is a great resource. Also, check out their website for blog entires (https://hansonscoachingservices.com/blog/). And runnersconnect.net which are some members of Hansons that have broken off into their own group (great articles there). Lastly, the letsrun.com message board can be a good resource in the training tab (http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=308471). BUT avoid the message board itself because it is RAMPANT with trolls and knuckleheads. Some of the Hansons team members used to post there and have some good stuff in there.

Here was the training regimen I followed before Hansons in prep for my Spring 2015 Marathon, and then the Hansons plan I modified for my Fall 2015 Marathon.



This was the pace key for the Spring 2015 plan. I was training to break 4 hours (9:09 min/mi) and the slowest I was training at was a 9:00 min/mile (uhh yea maybe not a great idea). The Spring plan trained from Dopey until the week of 4/27/15. My peak mileage was 30 miles. Back then I didn't track length of time of training like I do now.



The Modified Hansons plan I used started on 6/1/15. I used a hybrid of the Beginner and Advanced. Beginner was for those transitioning from 3-day week plan and never speed work. Advanced was for those who had done more days per week and speed work prior. I had done speed work but not more than 3 days per week. So I added the speed work into the Beginner plan but didn't add the extra mileage found in the advanced plan. Back then I didn't check the plan for balance like I do now (80/20 and 30% long run or less). I set the paces at 3:45 marathon because I had run a 1:49 half in April 2015.



This is a breakdown of the mileage and time spent training. As you can tell from the time spent training (which I believe is a larger factor than mileage), this plan was fairly mild compared to my next training plan. I have slowly been progressively building up the difficulty of the training plans to culminate in this Fall 2016 plan. I will back off on the difficulty after this plan until my planned BQ attempt in Fall 2017. I see this current training plan as a test to see how my body responds to this level of training before taking some easier time in between to let my body "rest" for 4-6 months.

Where did you get your training pace calculator? I'd like to hit a 1:40 half.

The calculator is from the Hansons book. I broke down the paces given in the book into multiplication factors in order to get a more specific time driven pace. Instead of choosing a line I just input the exact fitness 5K, 10K, half or full time and it gives me all the paces.

@opusone 's paces are right in line with what I calculate as well. (Which makes sense since he got them directly from the Hansons coaching services)



Let me know if you have any other questions as I'm always happy to help.

I'm sure @DopeyBadger will respond, but since I am just starting my 2nd Hansons half marathon training cycle, and I am targeting a 1:40 half as well, I thought I would let you know my training paces based on the Hansons half program (which is slightly different from the full marathon program):

Half Marathon Goal of 1:40
Recovery runs: 10:15/mi pace
Warm-up/Cool down runs and slow easy runs: 9:37/mi pace
Normal easy runs: 8:58/mi pace
Long runs: 8:38/mi pace
Tempo runs: 7:38/mi pace (half marathon goal pace)
Strength runs: 7:18/mi pace (this is 10k pace which is different than the book states, but I am currently using Hansons Coaching Services, and for the half marathon program, they recommend 10k pace instead of half marathon pace less 10 secs/mi which is what the book states)
Speed runs: 7:00/mi pace (5k pace)

That's pretty cool. So did you buy a plan from them or are you doing the coaching services? How does the plan differ from the one in the book? Did they give you a reason on the 10K time instead of HM - 10 sec? I ask because it's definitely something I'm considering for my Fall 2017 plan. I think their method aligns really well with what I like to do.

 

[opusone]

That's pretty cool. So did you buy a plan from them or are you doing the coaching services? How does the plan differ from the one in the book? Did they give you a reason on the 10K time instead of HM - 10 sec? I ask because it's definitely something I'm considering for my Fall 2017 plan. I think their method aligns really well with what I like to do.

I am using the coaching services (just the Silver level), so I have a coach that I can contact at any time (and she schedules my training plans through Final Surge as well as calculates my training paces). They are also just starting an HCS Online Run Club that they are currently including for free if you use their coaching services. This seems very similar to what McMillan is doing with their Run Club. It's group coaching, including Luke contributing, and access to any of the Hansons training plans, plus a social community aspect with all the other HCS runners.

As far as the strength workout pacing here is the response I received from my coach (no real explanation):

Good question about the paces. Luke writes the schedules and I have had others point out to me the difference in pace goals between the book and the online coaching schedule. The goal is 10K pace, but it is okay if you need to work into that. You could do the first few workouts at 7:28min/mi and then work down to 7:15. Alternatively, you could start the workout at 7:28 pace and try to make each mile faster than the previous, eventually working down to 7:15.

The training plans are the same as in the books (besides the strength pacing I mentioned above), except you do have access to all of their plans if other plans make sense for you (higher mileage, 5k/10k, base building, etc.).