Theater shooting in Louisiana

[Dizlvr]

As for using guns to gain independence, we gained independence from that same foreign government, without the use of guns. I don't think there is an issue with the military having guns to protect you, it is everyone else having guns as well.

Our citizens fought a war and died for our independence, not sure how you gained yours as I don't know Canadian history, but did your citizens?

 

[eliza61]

No one country has a perfect record and I believe I posted that we are not perfect. Are you sill treated as a second class citizen or has that improved?

Oh 1000% but my point was and is, that just what you pointed out. no one country is perfect so for anyone to imply that the US is the only place on the planet and I apologize if that wasn't what was implied that, who's citizens have "rights" is imo very egotistical on our part. I find that we do that a lot, look at the healthcare, every time some one suggests a different system we dig up the "having to wait 50 years" stories. I lived in another country and I've had an experience with a terminal disease in our system and imo we have no right to denigrate any other.

Yes, I recognize that the founding fathers fought for THEIR independence but remember perspectives is also important. they most definitely did not fight for everyone's and in fact the specifically wrote laws prevent AA from gun ownership. really hard to get fired up about the founding fathers when they told a big fat lie for a large part of the population. I recognize the object behind what they wanted to do as historic but that's pretty much it.

Now also recognize that people experiences also shape their perspectives. I live in a large city, there is not a many days that I do not wake up and at least 2 people have been shot. Never do we make it 1 week where someone has not been murdered by gun violence. Now I do believe Gumbo is right, no way no how are we going to ban guns so imo we will move to a situation where everyone is going to be strapped. Do I want to go to the PHillies game with 10,000 people carrying? do I want my grandkids attending school where every lunch lady, teacher and janitor is armed with glocks?

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

I am all for strengthening background checks. I am also for enhancing (greatly) mental health care in this country. I find it, shall we say, more than ironic when those on the right talk about mental health being a large part of the problem, and then promptly move to limit access to mental health services by making it unaffordable. Bobby Jindal chief among them...after the shooting in Louisiana this week he proclaimed loudly that "gun control" wasn't needed, but mental health services are. I certainly agree with him on the latter point. But, seriously, how can he with a straight face makes such statements while CUTTING mental health services in his state and denying expansion of Medicaid in his state (the expansion covers mental health services).

Yes, it's nice to do lip service to mental health, but pony up the dollars. Make mental health TRULY on par with physical health in terms of medical care. Then come back and tell me that it's not about gun control, it's about mental health.

I don't think we need to "lock up" those who are mentally ill unless they are a danger to themselves or others. But, we need, desperately, to provide them the mental health services they need. And, yes that costs MONEY.

Unfortunately our jails and prisons are now the facilities where many with the most need of mental health care are getting their services. Compare our prison population to others and it's almost embarrassing we call ourselves the land of the free.

 

[Madame]

Our citizens fought a war and died for our independence, not sure how you gained yours as I don't know Canadian history, but did your citizens?

Did we fight the British to gain our independence? No, that was negotiated. One of our first 'independent' acts (well not Newfoundland which was the last to join Canada in 1949) was to declare war against Germany after the British had already done so in 1939 (a symbolic gesture so to speak). We gained full control of our Constitution when it was repatriated in 1982.

However, our citizens fought to keep our independence when we were invaded from the South in 1812...

 

[kimblebee]

Did we fight the British to gain our independence? No, that was negotiated. One of our first 'independent' acts (well not Newfoundland which was the last to join Canada in 1949) was to declare war against Germany after the British had already done so in 1939 (a symbolic gesture so to speak). We gained full control of our Constitution when it was repatriated in 1982.

However, our citizens fought to keep our independence when we were invaded from the South in 1812...

Seems to me we did alright in that battle LOL

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

We were just goofing around and you all took us seriously.

 

[Disneychick75]

Did we fight the British to gain our independence? No, that was negotiated. One of our first 'independent' acts (well not Newfoundland which was the last to join Canada in 1949) was to declare war against Germany after the British had already done so in 1939 (a symbolic gesture so to speak). We gained full control of our Constitution when it was repatriated in 1982.

However, our citizens fought to keep our independence when we were invaded from the South in 1812...

You mean when England tried and lost again to gain control of the colonies?

 

[Madame]

You mean when England tried and lost again to gain control of the colonies?

What, you mean while the British were busy fighting the Napoleonic Wars they decided to invade & provoke war with the US?

Or rather did Madison work with that crafty Napoleon (who never did keep his word) and help the French divert British resources from the European conflict in order to ease economic restrictions on US imports to Europe and expand into the North?

But if you see it another way, that works too.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

This thread got weird.

 

[IndyRnRfan]

We are Canadian - Ontario to be exact. My son was born with a neuroblastoma (a cancerous tumour). In the first 3 years of his life he had over 15 MRIs with full anesthesia & we *never* had to wait.
My father was diagnosed with a massive terminal brain cancer at the age of 44. He died before his 47th birthday, but before he did he had several MRIs, CT scans & our healthcare even paid for an experimental drug to retard the growth of his tumour (this drug was $1000 a dose).
I do not know where you are getting your information on our health care system, but it is false. Do you have to wait to have an MRI if you have a bad back? You sure do. I have 2 bulging/herniated disks in my back and was wait-listed for 3 months. Was it inconvenient? Sure, but I wasn't dying.
We call my son our million dollar baby. If we lived in a country with no universal health care & insurance that denied his pre-existing condition, we'd be broke or he'd be dead.

I'm getting my info from people(wife being 1 of many) who work in our medical field at multiple hospitals who treat Canadians on a consistent basis. They (Canadians)all have the same story on how getting inmeduate care isn't always available. Now, her area of expertise is cardiac so it may be different depending on your diagnosis and how soon you can get in but on more than one occasion had her patient waited in Canada for the treatment they needed the patient would have not likely made it. There's not a month that goes by she doesn't have someone from Canada.

 

[declansdad]

I'm getting my info from people(wife being 1 of many) who work in our medical field at multiple hospitals who treat Canadians on a consistent basis. They all have the same story. Now, her area of expertise is cardiac so it may be different depending on your diagnosis and how soon you can get in but on more than one occasion had her patient waited in Canada for the treatment they needed the patient would have not likely made it. There's not a month that goes by she doesn't have someone from Canada.

If the patient is in a life threatening condition, they don't wait.

Are there waits for some treatments, yes there are but that's because the patient can wait.

 

[SirDuff]

This thread got weird.

Only on the DIS can a thread about a shooting in a theatre turn into a discussion about the War of 1812 and how bad the Canadian health care system is.

 

[declansdad]

Only on the DIS can a thread about a shooting in a theatre turn into a discussion about the War of 1812 and how bad the Canadian health care system is.

Or good, depending on your point of view.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

Only on the DIS can a thread about a shooting in a theatre turn into a discussion about the War of 1812 and how bad the Canadian health care system is.

It's the twistiest and turniest forum I'm a member of, that's for sure.

 

[NewRVLady]

Only on the DIS can a thread about a shooting in a theatre turn into a discussion about the War of 1812 and how bad the Canadian health care system is.

Just please remember the victims today
Their funerals are today
RIP

 

[Madame]

I'm getting my info from people(wife being 1 of many) who work in our medical field at multiple hospitals who treat Canadians on a consistent basis. They (Canadians)all have the same story on how getting inmeduate care isn't always available. Now, her area of expertise is cardiac so it may be different depending on your diagnosis and how soon you can get in but on more than one occasion had her patient waited in Canada for the treatment they needed the patient would have not likely made it. There's not a month that goes by she doesn't have someone from Canada.

I live very close to Detroit. If I need *immediate* medical treatment unavailable in Windsor (right across the border) & cannot make it to London (the nearest large Canadian medical centre about 2 hrs away I can be sent to Detroit for treatment & our healthcare foots the bill.

I don't doubt your wife sees Canadians, but I do think these are Canadians simply too impatient to wait for treatment they'd receive here for free.

Our system is not perfect by any means. The fact that my tax dollars had to pay to have photo ID for health cards because so many Americans who couldn't afford health insurance or were denied it & were coming across the border to get 'free' health care by pretending to be a Canadian...

This tells me that some of you (the poor & those who were uninsurable) liked our system better than yours.

That scene in Sicko? The one with the Woman who was bringing her daughter into Ontario & pretending to be married to a Canadian for access to our health care? I live there.

 

[Madame]

To get the thread back on track - I agree that what works for one country might not work for another, so more gun control might not be the answer. To say, however, that the society was founded in violence & therefore will continue to be violent is doing a disservice to its citizens.

We have some very violent incidents in our past (both recent & not). Our army was brought in during Québec's 'Quiet Revolution' - a seperatist group was setting off bombs & kidnapped a British diplomat. Someone stormed our Parliament and started shooting recently... We are not immune.

So it begs the question. What is the difference between the US & other democratic societies where gun violence is less prevalent? Is it the proliferation of guns? I don't honestly know.

Personally I think it's the poverty. How do you change that? Well, you give the people universal health care, and subsidized post-secondary education & subsidized plans for medical drugs (our government keeps a cap on the cost of medecine - you want to market your drug to the Canadian people? You aren't going to price gouge them)...

I think your Obama is a visionary (& would immediately trade our current PM for him in a heartbeat, but that's a whole 'nother story), but I think effecting change has been difficult for him.

I will be thinking of the victims of this tragedy today as well as their family & friends.

 

[Disneychick75]

Only on the DIS can a thread about a shooting in a theatre turn into a discussion about the War of 1812 and how bad the Canadian health care system is.

LOL, well you know one of the last skirmishes of the War of 1812, the Battle of New Orleans, was fought in Louisiana, so there is a tie in.

Prayers for the families of Mayci and Jillian.

 

[Domo]

Clearly we should live in the land of milk and honey.

Is chocolate allowed?

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

Dang, that escalated quickly.