The EpiPen that cost $75 in 2001 costs over $300 today

[carmelhp]

I have to say that article actually made me admire her. She worked her way up from literally the basement to CEO. She's still an evil Pharma(W)itch but I have to admire her hutzpah.

I'm sure having a powerful Senator as a daddy had absolutely nothing to do with any of her success.

 

[JaxDad]

That's part of the reason I'm skeptical putting everyone on a government provided plan would be any less expensive.

We even had practice auto-injectors for training. They did not have the needle or the medicine, but they had the spring effect. The military probably paid more than $300 apiece just for those!

I remember the medicine was supposedly only slightly better than the actual chemical/nerve agent. We were instructed to bend the needles through our pocket flaps after injection, so the medics would know how much we had injected and how screwed we were.

 

[JaxDad]

I'm sure having a powerful Senator as a daddy had absolutely nothing to do with any of her success.

...and perhaps the lack of success of her competitors.

 

[mom2rtk]

It's all about priorities..

It's not that simple at all.

 

[Geoff_M]

Well - Anthem was really the merger of a bunch of non-profit BLBS, which were taken for-profit.

Yes, but does that make BCBS of Michigan, along with the rest of the allifiated companies "for profit" too?

Kaiser Permanente is a bit of a different model, as they operate their own hospitals and work hard keeping their members using their facilities.

Which no doubt allows helps them save money by keeping the expenses "in house" in hospitals (albeit still for-profit) their parent company controls.

We've had a few fairly large non-profit health insurers in California go out of business.

http://www.centerforhealthjournalism.org/fellowships/projects/fallout-failed-health-insurer

From your link:

But the company fell victim to unexpectedly expensive health care claims, a high-priced new claims processing system and a failed merger with Blue Shield.

Sounds like it wasn't the state of the industry that sank them.

I don't care how you try and slice it, it doesn't change the fact that there's a significant portion of the US health insurance market that's already not-for-profit.

 

[carmelhp]

...and perhaps the lack of success of her competitors.

That too, having a Senator with control of the purse strings would make the FDA drag their feet in approving any competitors. Crony capitalism at its finest. The fact that she got a degree on phonied transcripts and screwed her own stockholders to protect her control of the company doesn't really make me admire her. She's a slimeball.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Epinephrine, for this use (anaphylaxis), cannot under any circumstances be injected into a vein or small area like fingers or toes.

The EpiPen technology works very simply and easily, so even a child can work it. That's the beauty of it, as opposed to some of these other needles and/or vials we've seen here or heard about. With those, there is a chance, with a needle sticking out, that that could happen. (Plus it can get very fumbly in an emergency.) With the EpiPen, the needle doesn't engage until it's pushed up against the skin, and it's super-simply operated.

See here:

You wouldn't want regular vials or needles full of epinephrine getting into the wrong hands, either, for the same reasons mentioned. With the EpiPen, it would be a little difficult to use it in a manner other than it's intended.

 

[kimblebee]

It's not that simple at all.

I realize that but everyone is complaining about it but no one is DOING anything about it. I have seen it a lot here, and actually in person too that a lot of Americans have the attitude 'why should I help someone else..let them pay for themselves'. That is not directed at you at all, because I don't know you. Until that attitude changes, nothing will.

 

[bcla]

Yep, that's that makes the difference. For example, last year in Canada a competitor product to EpiPen, Sanofi's Allerject, was pulled off the market because it was found to often deliver inaccurate doses to those that used it. Also, as a side note, EpiPen isn't sold in Canada by Mylan, it's sold by Pfizer.

It's a very complicated arrangement. Pfizer actually owns the rights to the EpiPen design, and the have them made by a contract manufacturer. Mylan doesn't even make them. The simply have distribution/marketing rights in the US. So every one sold by Mylan makes money for Pfizer.

https://morningconsult.com/2016/08/...n-epipens-could-complicate-drug-price-debate/

 

[mom2rtk]

I realize that but everyone is complaining about it but no one is DOING anything about it. I have seen it a lot here, and actually in person too that a lot of Americans have the attitude 'why should I help someone else..let them pay for themselves'. That is not directed at you at all, because I don't know you. Until that attitude changes, nothing will.

My health care needs were met far better before people started "doing" something about it.

 

[DizBelle]

That's part of the reason I'm skeptical putting everyone on a government provided plan would be any less expensive.

No, but the burden of paying would be shifted to "someone else" like it was before so many were on high deductible plans.

"Before" - people paid their premiums and then paid $10, $20, $30, etc for each co-pay for each "encounter" (office visit, prescription, etc).

"After" - people paid their premiums but now, with high deductible plans, they have to pay 100% of their medical costs until their out of pocket maximum is met.

Before you paid in little bits throughout the year. Now it is front loaded and you pay a bunch all at once at the beginning until the OOP max is met.

 

[kimblebee]

My health care needs were met far better before people started "doing" something about it.

So screw people like me who wouldn't be able to see a neurologist for my MS because I couldn't pay for it? I know I won't change your mind, just like you won't change mine but your answer kind of proves my point. MY needs were being met...

 

[mom2rtk]

So screw people like me who wouldn't be able to see a neurologist for my MS because I couldn't pay for it? I know I won't change your mind, just like you won't change mine but your answer kind of proves my point. MY needs were being met...

I'm sorry you are personalizing this. My comments weren't aimed at you in any way.

Although your comments are a great illustration that the changes made to our system didn't fix anything. All they did was shuffle up who the winners and losers are.

FWIW, I'm really happy you are able to get the health services you need. My husband's cousin had MS and it was hard watching up close everything she went through. I hope your medications help.

 

[mom2rtk]

No, but the burden of paying would be shifted to "someone else" like it was before so many were on high deductible plans.

"Before" - people paid their premiums and then paid $10, $20, $30, etc for each co-pay for each "encounter" (office visit, prescription, etc).

"After" - people paid their premiums but now, with high deductible plans, they have to pay 100% of their medical costs until their out of pocket maximum is met.

Before you paid in little bits throughout the year. Now it is front loaded and you pay a bunch all at once at the beginning until the OOP max is met.

Actually my "before" involved paying average premiums (around $300/month) then paying mostly small amounts (copayments) out as we went along.

My "after" involves paying an even higher monthly premium (around $475) plus $400/month into a health savings account to pay all those costs (nearly everything) that are subject to our deductible.

It's a far higher outlay than we ever had before. It's didn't just front load it. It's much higher all year long.

 

[kimblebee]

I'm sorry you are personalizing this. My comments weren't aimed at you in any way.

Although your comments are a great illustration that the changes made to our system didn't fix anything. All they did was shuffle up who the winners and losers were.

FWIW, I'm really happy you are able to get the health services you need. My husband's cousin had MS and it was hard watching up close everything she went through. I hope your medications help.

I'm not really taking it personally, it's just a subject that everyone has strong feelings about. Like I said, I won't change your mind and you won't change mine so there's no point arguing and getting things heated for no reason.

I hope my new meds work too, obviously LOL It's quite the rigamarole to even get started on it.

 

[mom2rtk]

I'm not really taking it personally, it's just a subject that everyone has strong feelings about. Like I said, I won't change your mind and you won't change mine so there's no point arguing and getting things heated for no reason.

I hope my new meds work too, obviously LOL It's quite the rigamarole to even get started on it.

I'm sorry if I misread your quote. But when you interpret what I say as "screw you" it sure comes across as personalizing it.

 

[bcla]

So screw people like me who wouldn't be able to see a neurologist for my MS because I couldn't pay for it? I know I won't change your mind, just like you won't change mine but your answer kind of proves my point. MY needs were being met...

I think we're talking about different things here. Canadian provinces have true single-payer health insurance. We don't have that in the US, where the attempt to cover more people, remove pre existing conditions denials, but keep in place the private insurer model resulted in dissatisfaction by many people. The fundamental issues are that insurers often have a profit incentive, and the actual cost of medical care isn't really controlled but shifted around. We don't really have drug price controls, as it offends the sensibilities of free market types. However, the reality is that drug companies sell their products worldwide, and charge more in the US to make up for no/low profits elsewhere.

I thought there were also some serious issues with the Canadian model, such as visiting outside the province. Isn't emergency medical coverage limited? A single day in an emergency room can cost way more than what is covered, and the patient will have to pay the difference.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

So screw people like me who wouldn't be able to see a neurologist for my MS because I couldn't pay for it? I know I won't change your mind, just like you won't change mine but your answer kind of proves my point. MY needs were being met...

I've spend my life working in healthcare. FWIW, I've never seen anyone turned away for a major procedure for the inability to pay. When and if that happens, social workers go to work to find benefits for the person. Now I can't speak for everyone. As a pp mentioned, here in MA, everyone has coverage. (In fact, the ACA was supposed to be based on our program, "RomneyCare".) I think you'd be hard pressed to final anyone, anywhere, who thinks that coverage for everyone isn't a good idea. The biggest issue is how to go about it. It's by no means a simple solution here in the U.S. with the way our states work and the legislation is - states are self-governing in a lot of ways, laws would have to be re-written, etc. It's basically a logistical nightmare and there are no easy, one-size-fits-all answers.

 

[kimblebee]

I think we're talking about different things here. Canadian provinces have true single-payer health insurance. We don't have that in the US, where the attempt to cover more people, remove pre existing conditions denials, but keep in place the private insurer model resulted in dissatisfaction by many people. The fundamental issues are that insurers often have a profit incentive, and the actual cost of medical care isn't really controlled but shifted around. We don't really have drug price controls, as it offends the sensibilities of free market types. However, the reality is that drug companies sell their products worldwide, and charge more in the US to make up for no/low profits elsewhere.

I thought there were also some serious issues with the Canadian model, such as visiting outside the province. Isn't emergency medical coverage limited? A single day in an emergency room can cost way more than what is covered, and the patient will have to pay the difference.

No, there are no limits. You can be in the hospital for six months and have every machine IN the hospital hooked up to you and you don't get charged a penny. There's also no charges at all for ER visits, no matter how long you are there. I don't know what you are referring to when you say visiting outside the province, so I can't answer that part for you. Of course our healthcare system is perfect, I know it's not. I've had to wait two months for a non essential MRI, but I have also read here that's it's on average $3000 for an MRI if you have no insurance? I had three in December alone. No way could I pay that (please correct me if I'm wrong). To know that I won't become bankrupt paying for all my drs and appointments and tests and everything else, I'll gladly put up with the flaws.

 

[kimblebee]

I've spend my life working in healthcare. FWIW, I've never seen anyone turned away for a major procedure for the inability to pay. When and if that happens, social workers go to work to find benefits for the person. Now I can't speak for everyone. As a pp mentioned, here in MA, everyone has coverage. (In fact, the ACA was supposed to be based on our program, "RomneyCare".) I think you'd be hard pressed to final anyone, anywhere, who thinks that coverage for everyone isn't a good idea. The biggest issue is how to go about it. It's by no means a simple solution here in the U.S. with the way our states work and the legislation is - states are self-governing in a lot of ways, laws would have to be re-written, etc. It's basically a logistical nightmare.

That is good to know, that there are attempts made to make sure people get the care they need. I think there's perceptions on both sides that are incorrect... I thought that if you couldn't pay, you were denied service. We've certainly seen stories on the news of people being kicked out of hospital beds and put in cabs to be sent who knows where.. I also know that's the exception, not the rule.

I can't imagine what a nightmare it would be to try and change the system you have now. Our change happened way before I was born so I don 't know how long it took, and how much opposition there was and all that. I imagine years and years...