So tired of the "teachers work for free every day" FB posts

[disykat]

Actually, I think in many cases it is a dig - by people who refuse to understand how our pay works and resent that paychecks continue to come to us in the summer and over Christmas and Spring Break.

I totally agree that you can't fairly compare a teacher's annual salary to the salary of someone who works year round.

If you could, then I wouldn't object to people telling me I'm having an extended paid vacation. Our work would be more comparable to a "seasonal" employee.

Teachers don't say they make "x a month," because we don't get paid that way. We make a set amount for the "season" and it happens to get divided by 12. Compounding that is that our season is very distinctly defined by number of days and number of hours each day. That leads to some angst over the fact that the reality of what needs to be worked is above those numbers. Then, if teachers try to talk about pay the two issues get confused by the public adding to the perception that teachers are trying to get paid like someone who works year round.

 

[Meriweather]

Okay...have to speak up here.
My DD is a teacher.....and yes, she knew she was salaried
What she didn't know is how many extra hours she would have to work. She has duty 4 days a week before school, the other day is meetings. She has to tutor 2 days a week after school, another afternoon is meetings.

She has to buy a lot of her own supplies.....she bought 90 spiral bound notebooks before school started. She has over 90 students. Teaches 4th grade math. She wouldn't have enough Kleenex or sanitizer for the year. She usually trades paper to another teacher for Kleenex.

She usually has to do her planning on one of her weekend days.

She does not get paid over the summer.....they get a lump at the end of the school year. She has 6 weeks off over summer, but longer breaks in the rest of the year.
Their benefits went down for this year.

I have already bought snacks for her to take to school because some of the kids have no lunch. She is in a Title One school, so they do get some food provided, but a lot of the kids do not bring their supplies in, so she is always buying pencils, notebooks and other things.

AZ is a low paying school area and not the best of schools in a lot of districts.
And there are not enough subs. They really can't take days off unless it is really an emergency. No subs, means the other 2 teachers in the group get that one class of kids divided between them.

Not all school districts are the same.

 

[ZachnElli]

My dad is a retired high school teacher, my mom is a retired computer programmer (she worked with computers all the way back when they took up walls!). I remember my dad grading papers at night, I even helped him. I don't remember him ever complaining about it. I do remember when my mom had to work late and/or had to go into work on weekends, my dad complaining about that, A LOT. My mom was on a salary too. I do know my dad loved being a teacher, loved working with the kids.

 

[bcla]

Actually, I think in many cases it is a dig - by people who refuse to understand how our pay works and resent that paychecks continue to come to us in the summer and over Christmas and Spring Break.

I totally agree that you can't fairly compare a teacher's annual salary to the salary of someone who works year round.

If you could, then I wouldn't object to people telling me I'm having an extended paid vacation. Our work would be more comparable to a "seasonal" employee.

I've dealt with stuff like that. At one company I worked at, we had some difficulties and had a mandatory 20% furlough. We could either take it as one weekday a week off, or as a complete week off every five weeks. I opted for the latter, but in any case HR recommended we have our pay to be spread out (i.e. equalize the paychecks), which helped when it came to tax withholding. If we didn't take it that way, our paychecks would have been bigger, then smaller, but where the withholding is always taken as if it's averaged for the entire year. I mean - we would get it all back with our refund, but who wants to wait to get money back? I also got laid off once, and HR recommended taking severance (I had a lot) spread out rather than as a lump sum. Again, it was about how withholding was calculated. Bonuses also had issues regarding withholding.

Granted - I've heard of many schoolteachers who opt to take a summer job. When I went on a big national park adventure from Grand Teton to Death Valley, a good many of the seasonal park rangers said they were schoolteachers, with one guy in his 80s noting that he was a retired school administrator and had been at the same seasonal job since the late 1940s.

 

[Ceila]

Actually, I think in many cases it is a dig - by people who refuse to understand how our pay works and resent that paychecks continue to come to us in the summer and over Christmas and Spring Break.

I totally agree that you can't fairly compare a teacher's annual salary to the salary of someone who works year round.

If you could, then I wouldn't object to people telling me I'm having an extended paid vacation. Our work would be more comparable to a "seasonal" employee.

Teachers don't say they make "x a month," because we don't get paid that way. We make a set amount for the "season" and it happens to get divided by 12. Compounding that is that our season is very distinctly defined by number of days and number of hours each day. That leads to some angst over the fact that the reality of what needs to be worked is above those numbers. Then, if teachers try to talk about pay the two issues get confused by the public adding to the perception that teachers are trying to get paid like someone who works year round.

Not all teachers spread out their pay over 12 months. I don't, as it makes more sense to have the money earning interest instead of waiting to receive it. However, my contract does run for 12 full months.

I agree that some people resent teacher pay, but I believe that those people are the ones who usually gripe about teachers in general, so I don't think it's necessarily rooted in understanding our pay structure, etc. They tend to be the people who resent paying for education, who believe that every school district wastes all their tax money, etc.

I just think a lot of teachers are a bit too sensitive regarding "I wish I had summer off" comments. I think most people who say that genuinely love the idea of being able to be home for that long and still have a secure position. I do! The reality is that we DO have summer off - I don't have to report to my school building for over 2 months, I get to hang out with my kids, go to conferences I want to go to, get stuff done around the house, go to movies when I want, do lunch and shopping with my other friends when we feel like it, etc.. My DH, who isn't a teacher, certainly doesn't have that option. Plus, as I said above, my I have a 12-month contract, and except for any major budget slashes, I am pretty secure being able to come back to the same job every year. So, for those reasons, comparing it to seasonal employment doesn't make much sense to me.

I adore my job, and I truly believe that the vast majority of teachers are great. I'm just sick of the whining. I do have friends in other professions, of course, and I just never hear the public complaining that I see teachers do over and over again. It makes the profession look, well, less professional.

 

[disykat]

Oh, I definitely agree with you that it makes teachers look less professional. I don't see a lot of that stuff on my facebook thankfully.

I love having summers off and I'm happy to not have paid work during the summers. I'm not sensitive about people knowing I have summers off, but I do get really irritated when people insist I'm being paid for not working.

As I said earlier, I am happy with my pay. I don't consider myself a complainer, but I do get sucked in when I see what I construe to be teachers salaries being misrepresented. I WISH I could have my paycheck over 10 months. It is not an option here. I think that option being available would help fix that perception that teachers are paid for not working in the summer.

Perhaps in your community there is less of a perception of teachers being paid for not working because you have that option of being paid 10 months and you don't have to deal with the backlash many teachers face.

 

[bcla]

Not all teachers spread out their pay over 12 months. I don't, as it makes more sense to have the money earning interest instead of waiting to receive it. However, my contract does run for 12 full months.

What interest these days? Anything higher yield will probably come with risks or will be tied down with early withdrawal penalties.

In any case, it might make some sense to spread out payments because of how tax withholding is calculated. It's kind of complicated, but as an oversimplification, if one is paid $45,000 for those 9 months and spread them out over 12 months, the withholding is taken assuming income of $45,000 for the whole year. If it's taken just for those 9 months, then the payments may be higher, but the withholding will be calculated for each pay period as if the employee is making $60,000 for the entire year. There's a lot that factors into it, such as how the W4 was filled out, dual incomes, another income source, etc.

I've been through this when I could opt for spread out payments or more or less lump sums. Lump sums create periods of higher pay and the formulas to withhold taxes assume a higher pay for the entire year. I couldn't spread out my bonuses, but I could opt to spread out other types of payments like my furlough weeks, severance, and cashed out vacation time.

 

[Ceila]

What interest these days? Anything higher yield will probably come with risks or will be tied down with early withdrawal penalties.

In any case, it might make some sense to spread out payments because of how tax withholding is calculated. It's kind of complicated, but as an oversimplification, if one is paid $45,000 for those 9 months and spread them out over 12 months, the withholding is taken assuming income of $45,000 for the whole year. If it's taken just for those 9 months, then the payments may be higher, but the withholding will be calculated for each pay period as if the employee is making $60,000 for the entire year. There's a lot that factors into it, such as how the W4 was filled out, dual incomes, another income source, etc.

I've been through this when I could opt for spread out payments or more or less lump sums. Lump sums create periods of higher pay and the formulas to withhold taxes assume a higher pay for the entire year. I couldn't spread out my bonuses, but I could opt to spread out other types of payments like my furlough weeks, severance, and cashed out vacation time.

For us, based on our combined earnings, it makes sense for me to not spread out the payments. But you are absolutely correct, and I regret that my post seemed to suggest that one method is right for everyone. Each person needs to assess their financial situation and act accordingly.

 

[littleblackegg]

I think there is a generational element in this. My mother was a librarian/early childhood educator. In the 1970's and 1980's, she made many calls to parents and teachers from home and often went to work on the weekend. She then left the school district and went to work for the county where the demands were less intense. I think it was common for educators of that time period to use their off hours to consult with other professionals and parents. It was expected. I have several good friends who teach grade school children and they guard their home time vigilantly. Parents know how to reach them during the school day. They feel they need boundaries to be effective and are not interested in martyring themselves. It's a different time in history, and we know that working healthier is better than working longer. There is no honor in exhausting oneself, but there is considerable honor in teaching long division.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

My parents were both teachers. Dad had a Summer job until 1977 when we took a LONG family vacation (he was 37). I don't recall him ever working Summers again after that. Mom never worked in Summer.

DW clerks at the local elementary school (well, not the one close to our house, but the one our kids were assigned to - there's another fun topic LOL). She had 8 weeks off in Summer until now - will have 6 weeks going forward as her hours have increased (she's paid hourly). Our district does not have an option on how one is paid. You receive a check each month you work. So, say school began August 31st & ended June 1st, there would be a check every month except July. And all the checks are the same amount (even for hourly employees).

 

[tasha99]

I taught for two years recently. One of the reasons I decided to switch to medical speech therapy was the unrelenting unpaid overtime--my contract was for 37.5 hours per week, but I put in an extra 2 hours per weeknight and most Sunday mornings, making it a 50 hour week. Taking that extra 12 hours a week and just tacking them on to lengthen my time worked, I realized that I didn't really have summers off--I had just done the work ahead of time. I had a few weeks off, as with any other job, making my pay dismally low since it wasn't really for 3/4 work.

That's not a complaint--it's just the reason I no longer teach.

 

[disney4us2002]

Salary is obviously different all over the country so I only know that I, as a 20+ year social worker, earn $46,000 for 12 months of work. My very good friend has been an elementary teacher for the same 20+ yrs and she earns $65,000 for 10 months of work PLUS the county Board of Educ paid for her Master's Degree (not even an option for me). I don't think there is much room to complain. She doesn't though. She loves her job and being off in the summers. I wish I had stayed in Elem. Education instead of switching to Social Work/Psychology in college. Live and learn.

 

[monsterkitty]

As a teacher I always find these threads interesting.

Our district has been on an 8.5 hour contract day for about 10 years now. We are contracted for 205 days/year with 200 of those being student-contact days. Our pay is spread out over 12 months and we don't get a say in that. Like every career there are perks and there are negatives. I love the kids and I love teaching but the outside stuff is getting to me at this point (testing, politics, more testing). However, the kids and watching them grow far out weigh any negative there is with teaching.

 

[bcla]

Salary is obviously different all over the country so I only know that I, as a 20+ year social worker, earn $46,000 for 12 months of work. My very good friend has been an elementary teacher for the same 20+ yrs and she earns $65,000 for 10 months of work PLUS the county Board of Educ paid for her Master's Degree (not even an option for me). I don't think there is much room to complain. She doesn't though. She loves her job and being off in the summers. I wish I had stayed in Elem. Education instead of switching to Social Work/Psychology in college. Live and learn.

As a UC Berkeley graduate and a big supporter of Cal athletics, I have noticed that one of the more common majors among student-athletes is "social welfare". Some claim it's an "easy" major. However, the majority of people I've come across who aren't in a technical field have majors that don't necessarily relate to the job they're doing, so they may be hoping to start a career simply based on being a college graduate from a well-known school.

I recall the author Michael Lewis decided to become an art history major even though his goal was to work on Wall Street. He figured that the name "Princeton" would mean more than the major. He even got several interviews in the financial section before he took his first job working for an art dealer. He didn't get his finance job until he went to the London School of Economics.

 

[Tinijocaro]

If teachers are doing all that during the breaks at school then why do they so often complain that they need to do it in the evenings, on their "own" time?

Teachers can choose to get paid for those summer months; they can have their yearly salary distributed over 12 months instead of 10.

I know what teachers make in my town; it's public information, and I take the time to look to see what taxpayers are paying these "underpaid" souls. I hardly think that for 180 days (plus several extra days before/after school start and end) that the salaries are low, especially once taking into account funded pensions and free health care. Many teachers in my town earn over $90,000 a year.

You can't clean up from one activity and prepare for the next activity at home. Lesson plans and many other things that can be done at home are.

Of course teachers can stretch their 10 month salary over 12 months but we are still only getting paid for 10 months.

Do you know teachers who get free health care? I don't know any. We pay out of every single paycheck toward our healthcare.

I don't earn anywhere close to $90,000 a year. Only people at the very top step in my area earn that much. They deserve it.

 

[ilovefh]

I know this is not specific to teaching but the problem in my area is that the increase in work over the last several years is not proportionate to the increase in salary.

For example, in my district we have all your average teacher responsibilities, planning, grading, communicating with parents, etc. We get one planning period per day. 3 days per week that time is used for meetings, one for a department meeting, one for a meeting with admin and one to "look at data." IEP and parent meeting also take place during this time.

In addition to all of those "regular" teacher responsibilities I am now expected to maintain a binder tracking all student data, including all their test scores for all of their progress monitoring testing for all subjects even though I teach math. So the 4 times per year they take a reading test I need to go the the 3 different teachers who teach reading and get the students scores and fill in my spreadsheet. Same for social studies, writing and science. This is only accessible from a school computer so it must be done at school.

One of the other new things that they added a few years ago that is HUGELY time consuming is a progress monitoring plan for all students who score a 1 or a 2 on standardized testing. For me that is all 140 kids. This can also only be done at school. It includes me detailing each student's strength and weaknesses subject wise, a student profile, goals and plans to address each weakness. The district wants a meeting similar to an IEP meeting with parents for each student by the end of first quarter. That is just not possible so typically they'll allow me to have the document signed via mail for most kids. Then each quarter the document must be updated with information from the district progress monitoring testing and sent home. At the end of the year they need to be closed out with final results. (Not that we even have the final results at the end of the year, but I digress.)

These two things combined with the fact that I don't even have a whole class set of textbooks so anything I want the kids to have I have to photo copy, means almost all planning and grading gets done at home.

Now I love my job, don't get me wrong, but the time demands seem to be ever increasing while the pay is not. Again, I know it's not specific to teaching, but that rationale doesn't make it acceptable for any profession.

And keep in mind, one cannot make a blanket statement about salary and benefits, about any profession really. While one area may be great others are not. In our area the highest you can make is $68k and that is after 26 years and you need to have a PHD in your subject area. Insurance in our district is awful! Most teachers in my area have their kids on the state Kidcare insurance. At the lowest cost it is $300 per month to add a child to our insurance. The plan has crazy copays, deductibles and a large out of pocket max. Kidcare is $133-$159 depending on age and that includes dental. At a cost of over $800 per month I can't even think of adding my spouse! That's almost half my salary!

Again, I know this is not specific to teaching and with a medically needy child I am so thankful that the state gives me the option of Kidcare because we couldn't afford the school insurance. I just wanted to point out that blanket statements about salary and benefits, in any profession, are not always accurate.

 

[Minniesgal]

I used to teach but gave it up and went back to industry. This attitude was a big part of why. All professionals should work whatever hours are necessary to get the job done not just teachers and most professionals go way beyond the minimum . I agree teachers work late and take work home but this is not isolated to teachers.

 

[Southernmiss]

So glad to see this thread. Very timely as school for students starts back today.

Dh and I are not teachers, are salaried and have taken work home in one form or another for over 20 years. And my salary is similar to a teachers.

I saw a meme this week...the grass is greener on the other side of the fence because it's fertilized with manure.

I've been waiting all summer for 2 teachers to take care of things at church they get a stipend to do. Now that schools starting again, I'm still waiting...

I had one week of vacation this summer and checked in via phone and email.

 

[BlovesC]

I'm salaried...I have no option to alter my hours (no coming in early to leave early, etc), I have to to work two weekends a month, and I'm on call for 15 hours (from 5pm when my shift 'ends' until 8am the next morning) two nights a week, every week. I'm a hospice social worker with a master's degree, and I'm fairly certain I make less than most teachers with bachelor's degrees. One thing I have never done is complain about my job on facebook...but I have seen these type of posts from friends who are teachers.

So yeah, I kind of get what you're saying.

As a UC Berkeley graduate and a big supporter of Cal athletics, I have noticed that one of the more common majors among student-athletes is "social welfare". Some claim it's an "easy" major. However, the majority of people I've come across who aren't in a technical field have majors that don't necessarily relate to the job they're doing, so they may be hoping to start a career simply based on being a college graduate from a well-known school.

Unless they have a genuine passion for the field, I'm guessing their perception of social work as an "easy" major changed the moment they found out that while all their friends are sleeping in they have to get up at the crack of dawn cramming in a 32-hour internship on top of their full-time course-load. Even the introductory courses for social work include some form of mandatory public service/volunteer hour requirement. Heck, in my first few classes even peers who wanted to be social workers dropped out left and right because they were intimidated by the amount of extracurricular work. So it doesn't make much sense for student athletes, who are already extremely limited for free time in their schedule, to choose this major for its supposed ease.

edit: Sorry, since you replied to someone who mentioned social work I failed to notice you were talking about a social welfare major. I looked at the Berkeley site; a Bachelor of Arts in Social Welfare definitely seems very different than a Bachelor of Social Work/Bachelor of Science in Social Work...the former seems to include similar theoretical courses without the applied practice perspective. So it may indeed be less work...but since they wouldn't even be qualified for social work jobs I can't imagine the corporate world will be beating down their door either. The days of "a college degree" being enough to land a job are long, long gone.

 

[alicat8]

No flames coming from me. Besides the time off for vacations, many teachers also get time off during the day when the kids are at recess, art, music, PE, library, and other special classes.

Yes. When the kids are in their specials classes, I sit with my feet up and watch Maury... I don't at all use that time to pee, email, call, copy, plan, grade, etc. It's a sweet break...