So tired of the drama - vent (long)

[Hannathy]

Not legally. But if he believes this child is his, and is making no effort to support her, then he certainly meets my definition of a deadbeat father.

Thank You! My sentiments exactly

 

[ols386]

If a DNA test is done, and Josh IS the father, I would think that not only would he need to pay child support, but that the court may also order that he pay retro-active child support back to when the child was born.

 

[disneyjunkie]

If Josh were my son, I'd do all I could to get him to have a DNA test. There has to be a reason why he didn't think the child was his. What made him change his mind? If the mother believed he was the father, why didn't she push for a DNA test from day one?

 

[torinsmom]

Now that you guys know he can be found, go back to Child Support Enforcement. In NC, they will do the DNA test on their dime if the parties were unmarried when the baby was born. Once the results are in and you go to court, they will order a support amount and probably require him to keep insurance on the child as well. There would also be back child support ordered from the time of the child's birth.

Mentioning that everything can go through child support enforcement may be enough to get the guy to back down if he is a real dead beat. Then your DD can decide if she wants to proceed. Depending on the "man", it is sometimes better for a child to not know their father than to have one who is always disappointing them. Of course, maybe he was just freaked out about having a baby and he has come to his senses and really wants to be a part of his child's life. As a PP said, if your DD is being a responsible parent, she has nothing to fear regarding losing custody.

 

[phorsenuf]

Just curious- how old is your daughter and Josh?

 

[dis-happy]

I'm not even sure you want to establish paternity. If your family is able to support and care for the child it's quite possible your dd would be better off keeping full custody and legal rights for herself. Let the onus be on them, if they actually follow through.

In the meantime, your dd confided in you. Wouldn't blame your friend for betraying your confidence when you betrayed your dd's confidence. This kind of gossip in the whole circle can only lead to trouble and problems. Your dd also needs to quit talking to anyone about who the baby's father may or may not be.

Finally, if you are convinced he's going to move forward, you need to get an attorney now. If possible, get a list of the best custody attorneys in your area and just do an interview visit with all of them. Then, no matter who your daughter uses as her attorney, the other good attorneys will be unable to take the old boyfriend's case.

The new boyfriend could be a problem if he has any kind of record. Might need to check this out too, to cover yourselves.

 

[horseshowmom]

I used the term deadbeat. I'm sorry but if you know or think that you produced a child with someone (and he obviously thinks so) and you have done NOTHING to own up to it or disprove it then in my book you are a deadbeat. How does he think the kid HE made is eating? off of you and I probably. He is walking around talking about getting custody so he obviously had sex with the Mother and thinks it is his.

A responsible person would not have to wait for a legal order to do the right thing!!!
Hence to me he is a deadbeat.

Not legally. But if he believes this child is his, and is making no effort to support her, then he certainly meets my definition of a deadbeat father.

I have to agree with these two posters. While he may not be legally required to provide support, he is certainly ethically responsible and hasn't made any effort to do so.

If Josh were my son, I'd do all I could to get him to have a DNA test. There has to be a reason why he didn't think the child was his. What made him change his mind? If the mother believed he was the father, why didn't she push for a DNA test from day one?

Honestly, the young man may not have wanted to accept responsibility for the child, so he said she wasn't his. In her case, the mother may have decided that she would rather not have to deal with him so she let it go (I know of some people who would truly be better off to not have one of the parents in the equation due to their issues - as sad as that sounds). I hope the situation she is currently living in is more stable than her previous relationship.

 

[Maridw]

My DD is 23 (24 this year) and Josh is 30. They split up not long after she got pregnant. She started dating her new boyfriend after the baby was born. My DD gets WIC and some food stamps for my GDD, but it is a minimal amount. She found out at one time Josh was getting them, but she wasn't. That was why she went to Child Support Enforcement. They tried to locate him at the address listed on his driver's license and was told he did not live there. DD does not have a current address for him or know exactly where he is working. As I said he was doing some jobs under the table so he wouldn't have to report his wages.

I do try to stay out of my DD's business except to back her up and not let her get hurt by what other people are saying. I try to act just as a sounding board for her. When I heard what was "supposedly" being said, I called my BF to see if it was true. I didn't get into the situation except to verify its validity. But if someone is going to say things about my DD that aren't true, then yes I am going to get into it. I will not allow people to say things that aren't true and get away with it.

So far I have kept my mouth shut to the others in the situation. I just sat there and listened to Nina complain about how DD had turned her words around and how she couldn't see "Her" Nat Nat any more.

Josh is not on the birtth certificate because he left my DD with an unpaid cell phone bill, and was being a real jerk just before the baby was born. After the baby was born, she had some problems and he never once asked anyone about what was going on. She had 4 ER visits, with 3 overnight stays before they finally got her taken care of. If Nina's husband Tim had been as good friends as they are now with Josh, he would have been letting him know what was going on, but he didn't. DD kept in contact with Josh's sister so she knew what was going on. Did Josh EVER try to call DD about his daughter? NO!

My biggest problem with the whole situation is that people that I have been friends with for almost 20 years are turning their backs on me and my family to side with someone they barely know.

 

[Inigo]

If a DNA test is done, and Josh IS the father, I would think that not only would he need to pay child support, but that the court may also order that he pay retro-active child support back to when the child was born.

Back child support would only be ordered if mom and the child were on welfare, and therefore Josh would be required to reimburse the state. If she had not received welfare, he would only be obligated to support the child, once he is proven to be the father, from the point of the filing for child support.

Anything he gives the mother prior to being ordered to pay child support by a Court would be considered to be a gift. Let's say he did give mom money for the child before he was legally the father. If mom is on welfare, none of that money would count toward anything he would get ordered to pay if he is ordered to pay retroactive child support.

Originally Posted by tlbwriter
Not legally. But if he believes this child is his, and is making no effort to support her, then he certainly meets my definition of a deadbeat father.

He may meet your definition of a "deadbeat father" but he doesn't meet the legal definition. The child's mother is just as much to blame. She could have filed at any time to have Josh take a DNA test to be the child's legal father.

And as I said before, he would be an idiot to do anything before he takes a DNA test that proves he is the father of this child.

I have a client who went through the entire pregnancy with his girlfriend. He was there at delivery and cut the umbilical cord. He was under 18, and his mother would not let him sign the acknowledgment of paternity. She insisted he get a DNA test. He wasn't the father. Neither were the other three guys (so far) that have been DNA tested.

 

[Inigo]

If possible, get a list of the best custody attorneys in your area and just do an interview visit with all of them. Then, no matter who your daughter uses as her attorney, the other good attorneys will be unable to take the old boyfriend's case..

This is disgusting to me.

 

[dis-happy]

This is disgusting to me.

Why? If I knew someone were planning to go after full custody of my child and had people lined up against me to do that, I'd do everything in my power to do what I could to fight back. It was an attorney who once told me that this could be done.

And while I'm not divorced, I've seen several people close to me go through messy custody sitations where EVERYONE was lined up against them even though it was undeserved (including a cousin who is currently in a situation with the birth father of her 11 year old. He has been completely hands off for years and is now talking about getting custody. Even if he loses it will still be many sleepless nights and $$$$ on her part to defend herself, trying to keep her family unit stable. Doesn't help that very well heeled inlaws are pulling the strings behind the scene either).

 

[rie'smom]

I have a client who went through the entire pregnancy with his girlfriend. He was there at delivery and cut the umbilical cord. He was under 18, and his mother would not let him sign the acknowledgment of paternity. She insisted he get a DNA test. He wasn't the father. Neither were the other three guys (so far) that have been DNA tested.

This happened to my friend's son! She and her daughters welcomed the girl into their home, they went to the baby shower and grew attached to the new baby
that was going to enter their lives. Her son though thought something was hinky and had a swab done right after the baby was born to test for paternity. When the results came in, he was not the father. The whole time the girl swore up and down it had to be him. When caught in her lie, she admitted it could have been 2 or 3 other guys.

 

[RitaE]

It sounds to me like the best support you could provide for you daughter would be to help her pay for a lawyer. I'm a little confused how you can go to Child Support Enforcement when it doesn't sound like Child Support has ever been ordered? But the details do get mixed up over the internet.

Regardless, it is time for you daughter to insist that the 30 year old man help pay for his daughter's welfare and get her off WIC and food stamps other public assistance. If he is the Father. If he isn't, then ... well that's a different bridge to cross.

As far as the "drama." Quit talking about your daughter's personal problems to anybody. Facebook, the DIS, and your friends.

 

[Inigo]

It sounds to me like the best support you could provide for you daughter would be to help her pay for a lawyer. I'm a little confused how you can go to Child Support Enforcement when it doesn't sound like Child Support has ever been ordered? But the details do get mixed up over the internet.

Because children being supported by their parents is in the best interests of the child and the community. The county prosecutor or district attorney has a division set up for child support. They don't handle visitation and custody, but the parent(s) can request those issues be addressed by the Court in the same Cause Number. The state just won't help with those issues. The state (prosecutor) will do the child support portion to get child support set up, and will help with collection efforts if the parent doesn't pay. I think it's Title IV-D.

dis-happy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inigo View Post
This is disgusting to me.

Why? If I knew someone were planning to go after full custody of my child and had people lined up against me to do that, I'd do everything in my power to do what I could to fight back. It was an attorney who once told me that this could be done.

And while I'm not divorced, I've seen several people close to me go through messy custody sitations where EVERYONE was lined up against them even though it was undeserved (including a cousin who is currently in a situation with the birth father of her 11 year old. He has been completely hands off for years and is now talking about getting custody. Even if he loses it will still be many sleepless nights and $$$$ on her part to defend herself, trying to keep her family unit stable. Doesn't help that very well heeled inlaws are pulling the strings behind the scene either).

Because that is just gaming the system. It's unethical. I would never hire an attorney that gave this advice as I would wonder what other areas of law he is unethical in.

Josh is not going to get primary physical custody of this child as long as the mother is fit. He may, and should, get joint legal custody and visitation with his child.

And just so everyone realizes this: Once visitation is put into place, as long as Josh is the legal father, he is entitled to that visitation. Even if he fails to pay his Court-ordered child support. Child support is not an admission ticket to get visitation to the child. Child support and visitation are two separate issues. Once ordered to pay child support, he should face sanctions for failing to support his child, up to and including incarceration. But even if he doesn't pay, he still gets his Court-ordered visitation.

If visitation is ordered and mom fails to made the child available to the father, she can face contempt charges and risks losing custody of the child. Dad isn't obligated to take the visitation, but if the Court ordered it and he wants it as ordered, he gets it.

Now if he fails to exercise visitation and fails to support his child, mom would have more standing to file for termination of his parental rights. For most courts, they are going to want to have mom's husband (ofmore than one year) adopt the child at the same time. Courts hate to *******ize children. Just filing for termination doesn't mean it will happen. Dad has a right to fight it, even if he doesn't see the child or doesn't pay support. But if he has had no contact, once the legal father, that gives mom more oomph in her fight to terminate his rights. Oh, and even if he doesn't see the child but has paid some support, that still counts as contact. And this is only after he is the legal father. Until the Court says he is the legal father, he doesn't have a child and therefore no obligations to said child.

 

[Disney Doll]

I am going to go off on a different tangent.

Tell your DD to think long and hard about n aming Josh as the father and getting child support from him. All of that gives him more rights and leverage.

Here's how I see it:

Your DD got pregnant by a guy who seems to be a bit of a bum...didn't want to meet his baby etc. His name is not on the birth certficate as the father, so technically, he's not.

I'd keep it that way. I have visions of Josh demanding time with his child if he is named as the father and starts to pay child support. He sound sliek a bit of a loser...do you all want the kid exposed to him????

I have a freind who got pregnant young, married the baby's father, was divorced a year later...big huge mess involving custody, child support and so forth. She always says that if she had it to do over again, she'd say "I have no idea who the father is".

 

[Hannathy]

I am going to go off on a different tangent.

Tell your DD to think long and hard about n aming Josh as the father and getting child support from him. All of that gives him more rights and leverage.

Here's how I see it:

Your DD got pregnant by a guy who seems to be a bit of a bum...didn't want to meet his baby etc. His name is not on the birth certficate as the father, so technically, he's not.

I'd keep it that way. I have visions of Josh demanding time with his child if he is named as the father and starts to pay child support. He sound sliek a bit of a loser...do you all want the kid exposed to him????

I have a freind who got pregnant young, married the baby's father, was divorced a year later...big huge mess involving custody, child support and so forth. She always says that if she had it to do over again, she'd say "I have no idea who the father is".

I don't agree with this at all. She thought he was good enough to sleep with so she chose him for a Father.

I also think it is horrible to keep someones child from them.

If you do do this and not name the father even when you know then you better be able to provide 100% for that child and NOT ask strangers ie the public to pay anything for the child's care. No food stamps, medical care etc.

It take 2 to make a child and they both should be paying for it not me.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I'd keep it that way. I have visions of Josh demanding time with his child if he is named as the father and starts to pay child support. He sounds like a bit of a loser...do you all want the kid exposed to him????

What a tragedy it would be for a child to know his or her father.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I am going to go off on a different tangent.

Tell your DD to think long and hard about n aming Josh as the father and getting child support from him. All of that gives him more rights and leverage.

Here's how I see it:

Your DD got pregnant by a guy who seems to be a bit of a bum...didn't want to meet his baby etc. His name is not on the birth certficate as the father, so technically, he's not.

I'd keep it that way. I have visions of Josh demanding time with his child if he is named as the father and starts to pay child support. He sound sliek a bit of a loser...do you all want the kid exposed to him????

I have a freind who got pregnant young, married the baby's father, was divorced a year later...big huge mess involving custody, child support and so forth. She always says that if she had it to do over again, she'd say "I have no idea who the father is".

Any woman who does this, is just as bad as the man. If Josh is the father, she won't be punishing him, she'll be punishing her child.

 

[Inigo]

I am going to go off on a different tangent.

Tell your DD to think long and hard about n aming Josh as the father and getting child support from him.

Since the taxpayers are supporting this child, through welfare, mom doesn't get a choice. Since she can't support the child without the help of the public, she is required to give the father's name. If she doesn't want to name him as the father, she needs to pay back all the welfare benefits she has gotten for the child since birth, and never again get welfare for the child.

That's the law when it comes to welfare, not my opinion or policy.

All of that gives him more rights and leverage.

She choose him to be the father, so why shouldn't he get rights to his child? If she didn't want him to have her rights to her child, she shouldn't have had sex with him. She thought he was fine and dandy as daddy material then, and she doesn't get to change her mind now.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Honestly, the young man may not have wanted to accept responsibility for the child, so he said she wasn't his. In her case, the mother may have decided that she would rather not have to deal with him so she let it go (I know of some people who would truly be better off to not have one of the parents in the equation due to their issues - as sad as that sounds). I hope the situation she is currently living in is more stable than her previous relationship.

Or maybe they both knew/know that someone else could be the father.

My DD is 23 (24 this year) and Josh is 30. They split up not long after she got pregnant. She started dating her new boyfriend after the baby was born. My DD gets WIC and some food stamps for my GDD, but it is a minimal amount. She found out at one time Josh was getting them, but she wasn't. That was why she went to Child Support Enforcement. They tried to locate him at the address listed on his driver's license and was told he did not live there. DD does not have a current address for him or know exactly where he is working. As I said he was doing some jobs under the table so he wouldn't have to report his wages.

So Josh was getting food stamps as well?

Didn't they ask about the father when she applied for food stamps? Did she name Josh as the dad at that time? If she didn't, why not? If she did, how could they not find him, if they had his contact information on his food stamp application?