So my daughter just had her first plane ride to Disney

[TotalDreamer]

Three year olds can understand right from wrong for simple matters. Not kicking is pretty simple. And if they don't get it then I would hold the parent accountable for making sure the child didn't continually kick my seat back, if I was the one in front of them. Even if it meant the parent had to fly with their arms holding their child's legs down.

I think your viewpoint that people want children banned from certain things is pretty extreme. I don't know anyone who wants kids banned from flights. And most of us know kids will act up from time to time. However a parent throwing their hands up in the air and saying "She is 3. What can I do?" is not acceptable. You are the parent. You parent. You don't ignore the behavior because your child is 3.

+1 your last three posts. And most people know two kicks can turn into that dreadful constant *kick* *kick* *kick*. I thought op was asking for advice to make the next flight different, that turned into "oh she's three, let her kick the child hater in the back". I wouldn't want to see a child's legs being held down, and also wouldn't complain after only two kicks, but I'm also more patient than other people and that shouldn't be the only solution anyway.

 

[stitchlovestink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stitchlovestink

Is that what you suggest?

It's not what I'm suggesting for you, but there are quite a few child-haters out there who think kids shouldn't be allowed to fly...or take a train...or go to the movies, etc., until they can behave impossibly perfectly. Which means families with young children never vacationing...or flying to see sick family members, etc.

And I am seriously suggesting a train for you. Being from Bel-Air, you could catch the Silver Meteor or Silver Star from Wilmington or Baltimore. You'd have a reliably smooth-ish (swaying and the occasional small bump) ride, plus you can get up and walk around quite often, could also get a sleeper room and have complete privacy and no-risk of getting kicked by anybody but your travel companion.

And I'm not accusing you of being kid-hater, but I'm sure you know what I mean. I'm sure some of them are usually decent people outside of a aluminum tube that hurtles through the atmosphere, but they're out there.

Thank you for your suggestion. However without going into details that I really don't feel like I need to share here, train travel is definitely NOT safer for me than airtravel. It is in my best interest to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible. And it is Definitely NOT safe for me to attempt to walk on a moving object like a train. I have done so and came very close to having disasterous results. I understand why you would suggest it. But there is so much more to my issue than a straight up 'back problem'.


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[tjmw2727]

+1 your last three posts. And most people know two kicks can turn into that dreadful constant *kick* *kick* *kick*. I thought op was asking for advice to make the next flight different, that turned into "oh she's three, let her kick the child hater in the back". I wouldn't want to see a child's legs being held down, and also wouldn't complain after only two kicks, but I'm also more patient than other people and that shouldn't be the only solution anyway.

Many good pionts but I didn't see anyone saying seat kicking is ok - even for a 3yo!

Personally I don't think 2 inavertant kicks from a 3y is a big deal; in fact I had two younger school age children behind me playing "slap jack" on their tray table a few months ago. It wasn't pleasant for me but as soon as I nicely pointed it out the kids (and the parents!) they understood the issue and stopped. There was no need for yelling - the kids had no idea they were bothering me until I mentioned it.

My seat has been pushed pulled and slammed into by more adults than children and I fly almost monthly. Never mind the amount of times I am "bopped" in the head by people who forget they are wearing backpacks!!

I see an OP that did stop her child from kicking and is concerned about helping her child get through the trip home. I haven't seen anyone say its ok to kick the seatback?

In regards to the bad back issue - yes I have one and Yes there are lots of things to be wary of when flying but snapping at a baby/toddler becuase they made a mistake doesn't help the situation.

 

[ZoeBell]

Three year olds can understand right from wrong for simple matters. Not kicking is pretty simple. And if they don't get it then I would hold the parent accountable for making sure the child didn't continually kick my seat back, if I was the one in front of them. Even if it meant the parent had to fly with their arms holding their child's legs down.

I think your viewpoint that people want children banned from certain things is pretty extreme. I don't know anyone who wants kids banned from flights. And most of us know kids will act up from time to time. However a parent throwing their hands up in the air and saying "She is 3. What can I do?" is not acceptable. You are the parent. You parent. You don't ignore the behavior because your child is 3.

Would you rather listen to them scream for the duration of the flight? Because that's probably what's going to happen if a child is having a tantrum and a mother is holding their legs down.

If you think any mother(or father) wants to deal with a kicking, screaming child then you don't know many mothers. I doubt many ignore the situation..but there is only so much that can be done. When all options are exhausted WHAT do you want the parents to do? I'm sure many parents on her would like some suggestions so that they as well can have a peaceful flight.

 

[goofyfigment]

Please don't flame me. My only thought to this is does this child kick the seat while in a car? This could be why they did it on a plane.

I have raised a child (she's 19) and been through the travel craziness. Up until my daughter was 13 she took draminine before flights and when she was younger had her favorite stuffed animal, travel games and coloring books with her to occupy her while on the plane. Several times we were delayed and sat on the plane for 2-3 hours before take off and as long as she was engaged in something she didn't stress or act out. Maybe i was just lucky.

 

[dsneprincess]

I am sorry but it is NOT acceptable for a child to kick the back of the seat for an entire flight. And assuming that just because they don't like it the people are crabby?

If you want your child to have that freedom one of you take the seat in front of your child the other one sit next to her.

I love the "she's three so she can do whatever" tone this board is taking. One of my niece's pre school teachers sat my SIL down YEARS ago and said "if you let her walk all over you now how do you plan to maintain control when she's 14" Woke her up BIG TIME!

Really? The OP said it was 2 kicks. 2 kicks from a 3 year old....and the person is not considered crabby to call over a FA & glare at a 3 year old. It was later said she was flying SW. Lady could've should've chosen another seat. I didn't say "she can do whatever". I said, "she's 3, flying for the first time & excited". I will stand by crabby. OP also said it was just her & her dd3, so no other seating option.

 

[North of Mouse]

to take the kicking from other woman's piont of view, if she has back trouble yes even the 2 kicks could cause her major problems getting off the plane. this could hold up unloading for everone as the bring in staff to get her off. yes i have been there, nonDisney trip. diffently not good way to start a trip.

I am definitely *with* you here. I have fibromyalgia, and it doesn't take many kicks to really upset me. I don't fly to be kicked the whole way.

Just wonder about the *couple* of kicks the OP said her daughter did to get the woman upset. If it was only two, why would she have to hold her daughter's legs down as much as possible for the rest of the trip

Doubt very many people would get upset by only 2 kicks on a 1 1/2 hour flight. I will gladly understand and tolerate that much.

 

[shanemc921]

Thank god for first class!

(yes, I know SW doesn't have it)

 

[maxiesmom]

Would you rather listen to them scream for the duration of the flight? Because that's probably what's going to happen if a child is having a tantrum and a mother is holding their legs down.

If you think any mother(or father) wants to deal with a kicking, screaming child then you don't know many mothers. I doubt many ignore the situation..but there is only so much that can be done. When all options are exhausted WHAT do you want the parents to do? I'm sure many parents on her would like some suggestions so that they as well can have a peaceful flight.

Where did the OP say her child was screaming? You are making a huge leap. They said a couple of kicks, not that their child went crazy.

I will go off that cliff though and say that if someone has a child who can't fly without having a tantrum the whole time (and kicking and screaming is a tantrum) then they shouldn't fly. The whole plane shouldn't have to put up with one child's bad behavior for a few hours. No different than dining out or going to the movies. If your child is not ready, and can't behave appropriately, you don't go.

I love how some parents seem to think that everyone else has to suck it up and accept it when their child behaves badly. No one else should have to choose between a child's 2 bad behaviors. One is not better than the other. If anyone should have to suck it up it should be the parent(s). Your child can't fly without upsetting the rest of the airplane? You should be the ones seeking alternate transportation.

 

[sam_gordon]

I will go off that cliff though and say that if someone has a child who can't fly without having a tantrum the whole time (and kicking and screaming is a tantrum) then they shouldn't fly. The whole plane shouldn't have to put up with one child's bad behavior for a few hours. No different than dining out or going to the movies. If your child is not ready, and can't behave appropriately, you don't go.

I don't disagree with you. The problem is how do you know how your child will react? For the OP, it was the 3yo's first plane ride. Yes, you can GUESS based on past behavior, but it's kind of hard to emulate the flying experience.

 

[kamik86]

One thing I have to wonder... is did the child REALLY only kick twice. Or did mom only notice twice. i have definitely been kicked and had the parents take forever to even notice... generally having to say something to them to get them to notice at all to even attempt to tell the child not to kick.

As for what to do about kicking there were multiple suggestions on this thread from not having a car seat so they can't reach, removing shoes so it doesn't impact as much, and the hobble pants idea with pajamas.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

I will go off that cliff though and say that if someone has a child who can't fly without having a tantrum the whole time (and kicking and screaming is a tantrum) then they shouldn't fly.

I actually agree with this. But if you're a mom, you know that you can't absolutely predict how a child will react to a new experience. The title of this thread included the phrase "first plane ride"...this was a new experience for the child.

I love how some parents seem to think that everyone else has to suck it up and accept it when their child behaves badly.

I have to suck it up when some loud, obnoxious person sitting near me won't lower his voice, or smells of cigarettes, or someone decides to use my seat-back to lift themselves....why shouldn't others have to respectfully indulge a few moments of rambunctiousness from a 3 year old? Plenty of other people behave badly on airplanes, and children should get just as much leeway.

Now repeated kicking that won't stop is another thing, but I take the OP at her word that this was 2 (or so) kicks.

ETA: I was just thinking...I bet the loud, cigarette smelling, use-seat-back-as-lift people are the ones who make no effort to improve their child's behavior. let make the whole family get a tattoo so the rest of us can fly a bit more pleasantly....

 

[aubriee]

I will go off that cliff though and say that if someone has a child who can't fly without having a tantrum the whole time (and kicking and screaming is a tantrum) then they shouldn't fly. The whole plane shouldn't have to put up with one child's bad behavior for a few hours. No different than dining out or going to the movies. If your child is not ready, and can't behave appropriately, you don't go.

I love how some parents seem to think that everyone else has to suck it up and accept it when their child behaves badly. If anyone should have to suck it up it should be the parent(s). Your child can't fly without upsetting the rest of the airplane? You should be the ones seeking alternate transportation.

I agree! This past Sept, I was talking to a solo traveler, while waiting to board our plane. There was a little girl about a year old, sitting near us that was really acting up (just wanted down to run around and was fighting and screaming to do so), who was traveling with her grandparents. This little girl had the shrillest voice, I've ever heard on a child. The lady sitting next to me, leaned over and made the comment that she hoped neither of us got stuck sitting next to this little girl. Sure enough, I was sitting in the aisle seat right across from them and the lady I had been talking to was sitting directly in front of the grandmother. To make it worse, they were traveling with the little girl as a lap child. That child screamed, kicked the back of the seat, pulled on the back of the seat in front of them, and hit the grandmother for the full 2 1/2 hours it took us to fly from Dallas to Orlando. That poor grandmother was exhausted, but so were the rest of us, just having to listen to the kid scream. The grandmother even made the comment as they were taking their seats, that she felt sorry for everyone on the plane because the little girl was not a good traveler and always screamed anytime she flew but also screamed any time was placed in her car seat. She said the parents couldn't go anywhere with her. What was bad, was she also said her daughter, son-in-law and their older kids had also left early that morning and were driving down there, and would be meeting them down there the next day. The grand parents decided to fly and bring the baby with them, (even though they knew she would probably cry the whole flight), because there was no way the parents could handle her in the car for 22 hours. The GM said they figured it would be easier for them to deal with her for 2 1/2 hours than to have her go through a 22 hour drive screaming. According to what the grandmother said, they knew from experience that this kid screamed and fought during flights, but in order to make it easier on the parents, decided to go ahead and subject the whole flight to her temper tantrums. Sorry, but that was just rude. Since part of the party was driving anyway and they knew this kid was terrible on flights, those parents should have taken her with them in the car and not subjected the whole flight to her screams. The kid was like 11 months and had already traveled enough, according to the GM for them to know she was a horrible traveler. It was a bad flight for all of us, but I really felt sorry the lady in front of them. Not only was the kid screaming for the full flight, but she was kicking and flinging her arms, standing up in the grandmothers' arms and lunging for the seat back in front of her. I've been on some flights with some bad kids, but usually can just tune them out, but this little girl was horrible. She was actually hoarse by the time we landed at MCO. What was really bad, was that we were stuck on the same flight home with them a week later and it was the exact same thing. This time they were two rows back on the opposite side. She again screamed and fought the grandparents for the entire flight. No one could believe she couldn't cry herself to sleep. She didn't though. She spent both flights trying her best to get out of the grandmothers arms, screaming the whole time.

The OP's child probably would not bother me. A couple of kicks wouldn't be a big deal. After a third kick, I would probably glance back at the parent to make sure they noticed the kid was kicking. After a fourth kick, I would probably say something to the parent and then if it continued, I'd say something to the FA, asking if I could be moved and if not could the parent control their child. If it was actually only two kicks, it wouldn't have bothered me though.

 

[maxiesmom]

I actually agree with this. But if you're a mom, you know that you can't absolutely predict how a child will react to a new experience. The title of this thread included the phrase "first plane ride"...this was a new experience for the child.

I have to suck it up when some loud, obnoxious person sitting near me won't lower his voice, or smells of cigarettes, or someone decides to use my seat-back to lift themselves....why shouldn't others have to respectfully indulge a few moments of rambunctiousness from a 3 year old? Plenty of other people behave badly on airplanes, and children should get just as much leeway.

Now repeated kicking that won't stop is another thing, but I take the OP at her word that this was 2 (or so) kicks.

ETA: I was just thinking...I bet the loud, cigarette smelling, use-seat-back-as-lift people are the ones who make no effort to improve their child's behavior. let make the whole family get a tattoo so the rest of us can fly a bit more pleasantly....

I agree with you. That post was more a general post, than directed at the OP. I wouldn't be bothered by a child kicking my seat a few times. If it continued for quite some time, I would be.

 

[maxiesmom]

I agree! This past Sept, I was talking to a solo traveler, while waiting to board our plane. There was a little girl about a year old, sitting near us that was really acting up (just wanted down to run around and was fighting and screaming to do so), who was traveling with her grandparents. This little girl had the shrillest voice, I've ever heard on a child. The lady sitting next to me, leaned over and made the comment that she hoped neither of us got stuck sitting next to this little girl. Sure enough, I was sitting in the aisle seat right across from them and the lady I had been talking to was sitting directly in front of the grandmother. To make it worse, they were traveling with the little girl as a lap child. That child screamed, kicked the back of the seat, pulled on the back of the seat in front of them, and hit the grandmother for the full 2 1/2 hours it took us to fly from Dallas to Orlando. That poor grandmother was exhausted, but so were the rest of us, just having to listen to the kid scream. The grandmother even made the comment as they were taking their seats, that she felt sorry for everyone on the plane because the little girl was not a good traveler and always screamed anytime she flew but also screamed any time was placed in her car seat. She said the parents couldn't go anywhere with her. What was bad, was she also said her daughter, son-in-law and their older kids had also left early that morning and were driving down there, and would be meeting them down there the next day. The grand parents decided to fly and bring the baby with them, (even though they knew she would probably cry the whole flight), because there was no way the parents could handle her in the car for 22 hours. The GM said they figured it would be easier for them to deal with her for 2 1/2 hours than to have her go through a 22 hour drive screaming. According to what the grandmother said, they knew from experience that this kid screamed and fought during flights, but in order to make it easier on the parents, decided to go ahead and subject the whole flight to her temper tantrums. Sorry, but that was just rude. Since part of the party was driving anyway and they knew this kid was terrible on flights, those parents should have taken her with them in the car and not subjected the whole flight to her screams. The kid was like 11 months and had already traveled enough, according to the GM for them to know she was a horrible traveler. It was a bad flight for all of us, but I really felt sorry the lady in front of them. Not only was the kid screaming for the full flight, but she was kicking and flinging her arms, standing up in the grandmothers' arms and lunging for the seat back in front of her. I've been on some flights with some bad kids, but usually can just tune them out, but this little girl was horrible. She was actually hoarse by the time we landed at MCO. What was really bad, was that we were stuck on the same flight home with them a week later and it was the exact same thing. This time they were two rows back on the opposite side. She again screamed and fought the grandparents for the entire flight. No one could believe she couldn't cry herself to sleep. She didn't though. She spent both flights trying her best to get out of the grandmothers arms, screaming the whole time.

Holy Moley!!! Me being me, I would have probably asked good old grandma how she though the rest of her fellow fliers felt about her decision.

 

[CPT Tripss]

I agree! This past Sept, I was talking to a solo traveler, while waiting to board our plane. There was a little girl about a year old, sitting near us that was really acting up (just wanted down to run around and was fighting and screaming to do so), who was traveling with her grandparents. This little girl had the shrillest voice, I've ever heard on a child. The lady sitting next to me, leaned over and made the comment that she hoped neither of us got stuck sitting next to this little girl. Sure enough, I was sitting in the aisle seat right across from them and the lady I had been talking to was sitting directly in front of the grandmother. To make it worse, they were traveling with the little girl as a lap child. That child screamed, kicked the back of the seat, pulled on the back of the seat in front of them, and hit the grandmother for the full 2 1/2 hours it took us to fly from Dallas to Orlando. That poor grandmother was exhausted, but so were the rest of us, just having to listen to the kid scream. The grandmother even made the comment as they were taking their seats, that she felt sorry for everyone on the plane because the little girl was not a good traveler and always screamed anytime she flew but also screamed any time was placed in her car seat. She said the parents couldn't go anywhere with her. What was bad, was she also said her daughter, son-in-law and their older kids had also left early that morning and were driving down there, and would be meeting them down there the next day. The grand parents decided to fly and bring the baby with them, (even though they knew she would probably cry the whole flight), because there was no way the parents could handle her in the car for 22 hours. The GM said they figured it would be easier for them to deal with her for 2 1/2 hours than to have her go through a 22 hour drive screaming. According to what the grandmother said, they knew from experience that this kid screamed and fought during flights, but in order to make it easier on the parents, decided to go ahead and subject the whole flight to her temper tantrums. Sorry, but that was just rude. Since part of the party was driving anyway and they knew this kid was terrible on flights, those parents should have taken her with them in the car and not subjected the whole flight to her screams. The kid was like 11 months and had already traveled enough, according to the GM for them to know she was a horrible traveler. It was a bad flight for all of us, but I really felt sorry the lady in front of them. Not only was the kid screaming for the full flight, but she was kicking and flinging her arms, standing up in the grandmothers' arms and lunging for the seat back in front of her. I've been on some flights with some bad kids, but usually can just tune them out, but this little girl was horrible. She was actually hoarse by the time we landed at MCO. What was really bad, was that we were stuck on the same flight home with them a week later and it was the exact same thing. This time they were two rows back on the opposite side. She again screamed and fought the grandparents for the entire flight. No one could believe she couldn't cry herself to sleep. She didn't though. She spent both flights trying her best to get out of the grandmothers arms, screaming the whole time.

The OP's child probably would not bother me. A couple of kicks wouldn't be a big deal. After a third kick, I would probably glancde back at the parent to make sure they noticed the kid was kicking. After a fourth kick, I would probably say something to the parent and then if it continued, I'd say something to the FA, asking if I could be moved and if not could the parent control their child. If it was actually only two kicks, it wouldn't have bothered me though.

Grandma's a masochist! No way I'd take that kid on a nice vavation with me.

 

[stitchlovestink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxiesmom

I will go off that cliff though and say that if someone has a child who can't fly without having a tantrum the whole time (and kicking and screaming is a tantrum) then they shouldn't fly. The whole plane shouldn't have to put up with one child's bad behavior for a few hours. No different than dining out or going to the movies. If your child is not ready, and can't behave appropriately, you don't go.

I love how some parents seem to think that everyone else has to suck it up and accept it when their child behaves badly. If anyone should have to suck it up it should be the parent(s). Your child can't fly without upsetting the rest of the airplane? You should be the ones seeking alternate transportation.

I agree! This past Sept, I was talking to a solo traveler, while waiting to board our plane. There was a little girl about a year old, sitting near us that was really acting up (just wanted down to run around and was fighting and screaming to do so), who was traveling with her grandparents. This little girl had the shrillest voice, I've ever heard on a child. The lady sitting next to me, leaned over and made the comment that she hoped neither of us got stuck sitting next to this little girl. Sure enough, I was sitting in the aisle seat right across from them and the lady I had been talking to was sitting directly in front of the grandmother. To make it worse, they were traveling with the little girl as a lap child. That child screamed, kicked the back of the seat, pulled on the back of the seat in front of them, and hit the grandmother for the full 2 1/2 hours it took us to fly from Dallas to Orlando. That poor grandmother was exhausted, but so were the rest of us, just having to listen to the kid scream. The grandmother even made the comment as they were taking their seats, that she felt sorry for everyone on the plane because the little girl was not a good traveler and always screamed anytime she flew but also screamed any time was placed in her car seat. She said the parents couldn't go anywhere with her. What was bad, was she also said her daughter, son-in-law and their older kids had also left early that morning and were driving down there, and would be meeting them down there the next day. The grand parents decided to fly and bring the baby with them, (even though they knew she would probably cry the whole flight), because there was no way the parents could handle her in the car for 22 hours. The GM said they figured it would be easier for them to deal with her for 2 1/2 hours than to have her go through a 22 hour drive screaming. According to what the grandmother said, they knew from experience that this kid screamed and fought during flights, but in order to make it easier on the parents, decided to go ahead and subject the whole flight to her temper tantrums. Sorry, but that was just rude. Since part of the party was driving anyway and they knew this kid was terrible on flights, those parents should have taken her with them in the car and not subjected the whole flight to her screams. The kid was like 11 months and had already traveled enough, according to the GM for them to know she was a horrible traveler. It was a bad flight for all of us, but I really felt sorry the lady in front of them. Not only was the kid screaming for the full flight, but she was kicking and flinging her arms, standing up in the grandmothers' arms and lunging for the seat back in front of her. I've been on some flights with some bad kids, but usually can just tune them out, but this little girl was horrible. She was actually hoarse by the time we landed at MCO. What was really bad, was that we were stuck on the same flight home with them a week later and it was the exact same thing. This time they were two rows back on the opposite side. She again screamed and fought the grandparents for the entire flight. No one could believe she couldn't cry herself to sleep. She didn't though. She spent both flights trying her best to get out of the grandmothers arms, screaming the whole time.

The OP's child probably would not bother me. A couple of kicks wouldn't be a big deal. After a third kick, I would probably glancde back at the parent to make sure they noticed the kid was kicking. After a fourth kick, I would probably say something to the parent and then if it continued, I'd say something to the FA, asking if I could be moved and if not could the parent control their child. If it was actually only two kicks, it wouldn't have bothered me though.

What a shame the pilot didn't have to listen to it while the plane was being loaded and warned the grandmother to get her under control or she would be removed. This is a perfect example of the type of situation that SHOULD be removed from the plane. An entire flight should not be disrupted because of one child. Sorry, just not a reasonable expectation. Take them in the car with YOU or don't go. Your problem to be miserable not the rest of the public's.


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[Peaseblossom]

A one-year-old is, in my mind, still at the point where parents can only do so much. Still an infant technically, no? In that situation, the only thing that can possibly make things right is for the the airline to hand out free drinks to other passengers.

Ages 3+, not so much. If the parents aren't in charge, then who exactly is? Sorry, but sometimes you have to be the bad cop.

 

[scrapper2k]

The child kicked two times that the op knows of because the lady turned around twice. Maybe she was kicked numerous times and couldn't take it anymore. I think each parent is in charge of and responsible for their child.

When I traveled with a two year old and he kicked, not only did I apologize profusely, I turned the child sideways so he only kicked me. I also put him near the window to distract him, brought coloring books and toys (today I'd bring an ipad) and kept him busy. Obviously, it doesn't always work but I don't think just shrugging it off is acceptable.

 

[stitchlovestink]

A one-year-old is, in my mind, still at the point where parents can only do so much. Still an infant technically, no? In that situation, the only thing that can possibly make things right is for the the airline to hand out free drinks to other passengers.

Ages 3+, not so much. If the parents aren't in charge, then who exactly is? Sorry, but sometimes you have to be the bad cop.

bolding is mine....
sorry disagree here...parents can do so much. make alternate travel arrangements that don't affect others (i.e. car travel)...she can scream in a car where only they have to hear it. Don't want to listen to it yourself, find someone else to watch the child at home or don't go. I think we are seeing that 'ME' generation entering parenthood! Let everyone else on a plane suffer so WE can travel in peace. Doesn't get more self-centered than that!




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