So my daughter just had her first plane ride to Disney

[tjmw2727]

So everyone should pay extra, all children are misbehaved and we shouldn't expect them to behave anyway by what you've just said.

No - but if your back is that severly injured that two kicks from a 3yo to the back of a seat renders you unable to get off the aircraft - Yes maybe you should look into pre-boarding or purchaes EBCI.

IMHO a raised voice or a seat kick or two from a child who isn't old enough to know better isn't misbehaving. It sounds like the mom is involved or she would have never posted for help on the return. I would much rather hear the voices of kids - crying or not than the business meetings or over indulgent adults that fly.

The mom has gotten some great ideas and I am sure they will have a great ride home.

 

[stitchlovestink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LockShockBarrel

So everyone should pay extra, all children are misbehaved and we shouldn't expect them to behave anyway by what you've just said.

No - but if your back is that severly injured that two kicks from a 3yo to the back of a seat renders you unable to get off the aircraft - Yes maybe you should look into pre-boarding or purchaes EBCI.

IMHO a raised voice or a seat kick or two from a child who isn't old enough to know better isn't misbehaving. It sounds like the mom is involved or she would have never posted for help on the return. I would much rather hear the voices of kids - crying or not than the business meetings or over indulgent adults that fly.

The mom has gotten some great ideas and I am sure they will have a great ride home.

how is preboarding going to help????
preboards are seated FIRST! You don't have any option who sits around you...
So, again I ask, how will preboarding help??

I agree with you that this mom is being very proactive and the other woman should not have gone off on her the way she did. But I also agree the ONE movement of the seat the wrong way to someone who has back surgery can cause crippling pain and the bad part is when you are confined to a sitting position and that pain hits, it is AGONY! and it may be something someone else just cannot comprehend. While I understand the child didn't do it on purpose or to aggrevate, please try to understand the 'other' side of the fence. and I TOTALLY agree the other woman TOTALLY handled this wrong. But there are are a few of us that a small jar can cause excruitating pain and sitting is already the worst position for me as it is. By the end of a 2 hr flight I just want off of that plane SO BAD because I am in pain without anyone bumping me. A bump can increase that pain threasehold TENfold. just trying to give a different perspective.


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[GrnMtnMan]

if she has back trouble yes even the 2 kicks could cause her major problems getting off the plane.

But I also agree the ONE movement of the seat the wrong way to someone who has back surgery can cause crippling pain and the bad part is when you are confined to a sitting position and that pain hits, it is AGONY! and it may be something someone else just cannot comprehend.
...
But there are are a few of us that a small jar can cause excruitating pain and sitting is already the worst position for me as it is. By the end of a 2 hr flight I just want off of that plane SO BAD because I am in pain without anyone bumping me. A bump can increase that pain threasehold TENfold. just trying to give a different perspective.

No - but if your back is that severly injured that two kicks from a 3yo to the back of a seat renders you unable to get off the aircraft - Yes maybe you should look into pre-boarding or purchaes EBCI.

Or not fly at all on commercial aircraft....if a 3 YO kicking a seat could harm your back, then moderate-to-heavy turbulence or a rough landing could cause far more harm. Or the olympic gold medal winner of the decathlon could be on your flight and trip and shake your seat. Or an old man could need to hold onto your seat back to get up and down from his seat to go to the bathroom every 10 minutes. All are pretty equivalent to a rambunctious 3 year old kicking a seat. If you are really in this much jeopardy of an injury, then its time to look into other means of transportation.

On the train, you have a few bumps and sways, but nothing that should injure a person sitting in seat.

Anyway, I have two small children and we've addresses this problem by sitting 2 by 2, one row in front of the other. We put the kicker behind his big sister. On jetBlue, I've also paid-up for the even more space rows.

I suggest bribing a family with small kids to sit in front of you, if it's just the two of you. Some small coloring book or souvenir and a kid won't mind being occasionally bumped.

And sometimes you just have to ignore kid-haters on airplanes. That means preventing/doing everything you reasonably can to keep the kid from kicking/annoying other passengers, but also ignoring those who cannot be satisfied. Some people get annoyed at every little peep they can hear from a small child, all the while having a full volume conversation with other passengers in her row, so that 3 rows forward an backward of them hear every detail of her feelings about religion, politics, and how to raise children.

 

[GusGus77]

Do your best and try not to fret too much. If your daughter feels you are really stressed out and tense about her behavior on the plan it could escalate it instead of stopping it. Obviously treats and new toys to play with (like happy meal toys) might help. Of course, I am not against bribing my children in situations like this. When my daughter was young, if I had the opportunity I would briefly talk to the person in front of her. I would tell them I will try my best to keep her from kicking their seat, but if she did, please let me know and I will try to prevent it from happening again. I think this went a long way when she did kick because the person knew I was trying and not just ignoring the behavior and letting my daughter kick away.

Enjoy the rest of your trip at Disney!!!! Hopefully your flight home will be much better than your flight out!

 

[LadyBeBop]

So everyone should pay extra, all children are misbehaved and we shouldn't expect them to behave anyway by what you've just said.

No, I didn't say all children misbehave. Most children are great on a plane. It's just a $10 insurance policy just in case you cannot tolerate sitting in front of a kicker. Me, it doesn't bother me.

 

[LadyBeBop]

how is preboarding going to help????
preboards are seated FIRST! You don't have any option who sits around you...
So, again I ask, how will preboarding help??

Unless you got A1, you'll always have the option of sitting in front of someone. 99.9% of the time, even an A4 or A5 will give you the option of sitting in front of an adult.

 

[kamik86]

Unless you got A1, you'll always have the option of sitting in front of someone. 99.9% of the time, even an A4 or A5 will give you the option of sitting in front of an adult.

When you preboard you board before they even start boarding the A's. The only others that would have been sitting would be other preboards and on some flights there aren't even any preboards at all so someone that preboards could easiliy be the very first person on the plane.

However sitting in the back row of the plane would guarantee no seat kickers.

 

[LadyBeBop]

When you preboard you board before they even start boarding the A's. The only others that would have been sitting would be other preboards and on some flights there aren't even any preboards at all so someone that preboards could easiliy be the very first person on the plane.

Me bad (I've never flown SW). I would think there would be enough preboards so that she could board (and sit in front of) another pre-boarder.

However sitting in the back row of the plane would guarantee no seat kickers.

True. However is it worth it to be the last one off the plane. Especially when you may have a tight connection? Or even if you want to get to Disney quicker?

However, sitting in the row in front of an exit row would help. You have to be a certain age to sit in the exit row.

 

[kamik86]

OP I think what I would do would depend not on the lady that freaked out but your assessment of the situation. Was your daughter really uncharacteristically anxious/nervous/misbehaved/etc? If yes then she might have an issue flying and something to help calm her might be a good idea. Many adults need to have something to fly whether its medicine or just their favorite adult beverage so I wouldn't feel bad giving a child something to calm them down if they needed it. If not and she was just being a normal 3 year old that got a bit anxious due to a new experience and start of a vacation and kicked a seat a few times I would just watch out for the seat kicking and try to sit behind another family.

 

[stitchlovestink]

Or not fly at all on commercial aircraft....if a 3 YO kicking a seat could harm your back, then moderate-to-heavy turbulence or a rough landing could cause far more harm. Or the olympic gold medal winner of the decathlon could be on your flight and trip and shake your seat. Or an old man could need to hold onto your seat back to get up and down from his seat to go to the bathroom every 10 minutes. All are pretty equivalent to a rambunctious 3 year old kicking a seat. If you are really in this much jeopardy of an injury, then its time to look into other means of transportation.

On the train, you have a few bumps and sways, but nothing that should injure a person sitting in seat.

Anyway, I have two small children and we've addresses this problem by sitting 2 by 2, one row in front of the other. We put the kicker behind his big sister. On jetBlue, I've also paid-up for the even more space rows.

I suggest bribing a family with small kids to sit in front of you, if it's just the two of you. Some small coloring book or souvenir and a kid won't mind being occasionally bumped.

And sometimes you just have to ignore kid-haters on airplanes. That means preventing/doing everything you reasonably can to keep the kid from kicking/annoying other passengers, but also ignoring those who cannot be satisfied. Some people get annoyed at every little peep they can hear from a small child, all the while having a full volume conversation with other passengers in her row, so that 3 rows forward an backward of them hear every detail of her feelings about religion, politics, and how to raise children.

You're not comparing apples to apples when you say some elderly person may use my seat as an aid to get up and down out of theirs...compared to getting kicked pretty much right in the region of where one has had multiple surgeries... and while it is possible that some could accidentally bump my seat, YES, that is possible...but it is an accident versus something that is 'technically' an avoidable situation. And I am not a kid-hater. I have kids of my own. And you're not going to hear any conversation from me!! I'm hoping to sleep!!
I have as much right to fly in reasonable comfort as the next person and if you watch the news it's the rambunctious children and their parents who get removed from flights. Like I stated before, the lady was wrong in how she approached it but sorry seat kicking is not okay even twice.

Unless you got A1, you'll always have the option of sitting in front of someone. 99.9% of the time, even an A4 or A5 will give you the option of sitting in front of an adult.

I assume you don't understand how preboarding works...preboards are infront of A1. So unless it is a connecting flight, the plane will be empty, when preboards are taken on. And some flight attendants have preboards sit in particular spots, especially rows, not necessarily seats in the rows, but particular rows

Me bad (I've never flown SW). I would think there would be enough preboards so that she could board (and sit in front of) another pre-boarder.



True. However is it worth it to be the last one off the plane. Especially when you may have a tight connection? Or even if you want to get to Disney quicker?

However, sitting in the row in front of an exit row would help. You have to be a certain age to sit in the exit row.

Not always... and preboards are EXPECTED if not assigned to sit in the first couple of rows of the plane. Now this part is just my opinion, but I think that "they" (as in SW) think if you need to preboard it is too difficult for you to make it to the back of the plane otherwise you could be a part of the general boarding process, so as a medical preboard you are Clearly EXPECTED to sit in the front of the plane when you board. And some of the F/A will direct you to a row in which they expect you to sit while some allow you to choose you own. Just depends on the flight attendants...

 

[GrnMtnMan]

seat kicking is not okay even twice.

I'm going to re-post my message, bolding the take-away

Or not fly at all on commercial aircraft....if a 3 YO kicking a seat could harm your back, then moderate-to-heavy turbulence or a rough landing could cause far more harm. Or the olympic gold medal winner of the decathlon could be on your flight and trip and shake your seat. Or an old man could need to hold onto your seat back to get up and down from his seat to go to the bathroom every 10 minutes. All are pretty equivalent to a rambunctious 3 year old kicking a seat. If you are really in this much jeopardy of an injury, then its time to look into other means of transportation.

I don't think it's okay for a kid to kick a seat. But it is a risk once you get on an airplane that has other members of the general public. There could be misbehaved kids, loud people, smelly people, etc, and the manner in which those people behave could have an impact on you. It would be nice if everyone was polite and considerate, but they're not.

The reality is that the bubble of personal space is much smaller on an airplane. If someone coming into that space, intentionally or unintentionally, poses a danger to you then you need to look out for your personal safety and find alternate means of transportation.

 

[stitchlovestink]

I'm going to re-post my message, bolding the take-away
I don't think it's okay for a kid to kick a seat. But it is a risk once you get on an airplane that has other members of the general public. There could be misbehaved kids, loud people, smelly people, etc, and the manner in which those people behave could have an impact on you. It would be nice if everyone was polite and considerate, but they're not.

The reality is that the bubble of personal space is much smaller on an airplane. If someone coming into that space, intentionally or unintentionally, poses a danger to you then you need to look out for your personal safety and find alternate means of transportation.

A Seat Kick is not going to cause injury to me but it certainly could cause me a Great Deal of Pain. And I DO realize that it is a risk that I take whenever I go out in public! Trust me, I run a HIGHER risk riding in a car because I am much more likely to be injured in a car accident (than on a plane) and that will Definitely SCREW up my back even more! I am not a heartless person when it comes to kids or medical issues. I wouldn't wish chronic pain on my worst enemy! But car travel is a far worse risk for me. And sitting is the worst position for my condition as well. So I am to stay in my home and never go anywhere or do anything? Is that what you suggest?

All I was saying in my other post was offering a different point of view regarding that kicking a seat can 'be painful' for someone else but it clearly never gives them the right to 'go off' on someone else's child. I was NOT the one who said it would leave me being in a position to be so disabled I would not be able to get off of the plane. I would be in agony, but I could deplane. It wouldn't put my vacation off to a good start, but neither would being stuck on a train or in a car for 20ish hours sitting. My body couldn't handle that either.

I agree a little bit of kindness can go a long way and you can't control others. Like I tell my kids...you can't control what others do, you can only control how you react to what they do.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

Is that what you suggest?

It's not what I'm suggesting for you, but there are quite a few child-haters out there who think kids shouldn't be allowed to fly...or take a train...or go to the movies, etc., until they can behave impossibly perfectly. Which means families with young children never vacationing...or flying to see sick family members, etc.

And I am seriously suggesting a train for you. Being from Bel-Air, you could catch the Silver Meteor or Silver Star from Wilmington or Baltimore. You'd have a reliably smooth-ish (swaying and the occasional small bump) ride, plus you can get up and walk around quite often, could also get a sleeper room and have complete privacy and no-risk of getting kicked by anybody but your travel companion.

And I'm not accusing you of being kid-hater, but I'm sure you know what I mean. I'm sure some of them are usually decent people outside of a aluminum tube that hurtles through the atmosphere, but they're out there.

 

[maxiesmom]

I'm not seeing how not wanting a child repeatedly kicking the back of your seat makes you a child hater. People shouldn't jump down a parent's throat because their child twitches a bit. But neither should a child repeatedly kicking the seat in front of them be ok and excused just because they are a child.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

I'm not seeing how not wanting a child repeatedly kicking the back of your seat makes you a child hater. People shouldn't jump down a parent's throat because their child twitches a bit.

It was twice...I wouldn't call that repeatedly.

Here response to the situation was what made her a child-hater.

Of course, kids shouldn't kick seats. But the complainant made the situation worse. That's what put's it in the child-hater category for me.

But neither should a child repeatedly kicking the seat in front of them be ok and excused just because they are a child.

Are you suggesting that this was grounds for removal from the aircraft? That the child should have been punished right there and then? What punishment do you suggest? Remember, this was a 3 year old....at that age they still don't get consequences yet.

Summary of the OP:

She kicked the seat in front of her twice and the lady went bollistic and called the fight attendant over to get onto us. She is three by the way.
...
I think the lady took it too far especially glaring at my child.

 

[maxiesmom]

Wow, not sure how you get a child shouldn't be kicking the seat in front of them turned into a child should get thrown of the aircraft. I'm getting the feeling you just want to argue, and I'm not in the mood to oblige you.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

I am sorry this happened to you. Please remember there are crabby people everywhere who just live to be mean. 2 kicks to a seat on a plane is NOT a big deal! Did you have her in a carseat? If so, flying home maybe go without the seat because then their legs don't reach the seat ahead when they kick. My DS2 doesn't fly that great either & he's flown a bunch of times. I put him at the window seat, he pulls the shade up & down, I let him stand when the seatbelt sign is off, we give him a pacifier or lollipop for his ears. If you are flying an airline like SW where you can pick your seat, try to sit near someone else with kids. Or put your child behind a child so if she hits the seat it is not a big deal.
Do NOT let this person wreck your trip. It is a 90 minute plane ride home, not the end of the world. We have been with screaming children (sometimes our own!) for longer than that in flight. Enjoy your vacation & don't worry about the trip home; it will work out.

I am sorry but it is NOT acceptable for a child to kick the back of the seat for an entire flight. And assuming that just because they don't like it the people are crabby?

If you want your child to have that freedom one of you take the seat in front of your child the other one sit next to her.

I love the "she's three so she can do whatever" tone this board is taking. One of my niece's pre school teachers sat my SIL down YEARS ago and said "if you let her walk all over you now how do you plan to maintain control when she's 14" Woke her up BIG TIME!

 

[GrnMtnMan]

Wow, not sure how you get a child shouldn't be kicking the seat in front of them turned into a child should get thrown of the aircraft.

I was pointing out, in practical terms, that there's really not much to be done in this situation. A parent could try to punish (verbally or corporeally, if that's your thing) a child for kicking the seat, but that would likely make the child's behavior worse in the short-run.

Removing the child from the flight is pretty much the only way to absolutely prevent the seat from being kicked again. Otherwise, its a 3 year old we're talking about and there no way to know how they will behave in a new situation. You can prepare them, comfort them, etc., but s/he might just kick the seat again.

It comes down to what you mean by 'not excusing' the child. My opinion is that 'excusing' or 'holding-accountable' dosen't apply in this situation....the perpetrator (3 Year old) can't comprehend either way.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

I love the "she's three so she can do whatever" tone this board is taking. One of my niece's pre school teachers sat my SIL down YEARS ago and said "if you let her walk all over you now how do you plan to maintain control when she's 14" Woke her up BIG TIME!

Curious if you are a parent or have raised a three year old?

In raising my two children, I've found there's only so much you can do in a single situation to address behavior. You think you have one issue solved, and then another pops up. I often have to address poor behavior at another point for practical reasons (like no place to do a time-out on an airplane).

Being children, situations that are ordinary to you are brand-new to them and you never know what will cause them to be thrown out of there usual behavior. This dosen't make kicking a seat acceptable, but the only certain remedy is pretty draconian: removing the kid from the airplane.

I'd say that why some people are more dismissive/accepting/understanding of this situation than others. I know some would like children below a certain age banned from airplanes, but that's not the time and place we all live in right now live.

 

[maxiesmom]

It comes down to what you mean by 'not excusing' the child. My opinion is that 'excusing' or 'holding-accountable' dosen't apply in this situation....the perpetrator (3 Year old) can't comprehend either way.

Three year olds can understand right from wrong for simple matters. Not kicking is pretty simple. And if they don't get it then I would hold the parent accountable for making sure the child didn't continually kick my seat back, if I was the one in front of them. Even if it meant the parent had to fly with their arms holding their child's legs down.

I think your viewpoint that people want children banned from certain things is pretty extreme. I don't know anyone who wants kids banned from flights. And most of us know kids will act up from time to time. However a parent throwing their hands up in the air and saying "She is 3. What can I do?" is not acceptable. You are the parent. You parent. You don't ignore the behavior because your child is 3.