Seven Dwarfs Mine Train Progresses with Major Concrete Pour

Discussion in 'Disney Rumors and News' started by Rumors Rocks, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. StarWarsJez

    StarWarsJez Mouseketeer

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    Agreed again! This isn't Disney taking its time to create something perfect, this is stringing out development so they can spread the costs ver a longer budgetary period while still looking like they're investing in the parks.

    Despite my love for Disney I think I'd actually like Universal to blow them out the water when Harry Potter phase 2 arrives (in what HALF the time it's taken Disney to upgrade Fantasyland?). I feel there's a real arrogance at Disney that needs shaking out of them!
     
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  3. twebber55

    twebber55 DIS Veteran

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    totally agree.....everybody on this board obviously loves disney but man do we need to hold them to a high standard and not let this stuff slide by because they were great 10 years ago
     
  4. CtinaDitty

    CtinaDitty Disney Fanatic

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    Give me a break... Lol. We're all adults here. :lmao:
     
  5. mvk

    mvk Mouseketeer

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    I don't know if this is a joke or if you really believe they aren't matching Universal for investments.

    Unless you don't think it costs anything to maintain/landscape/upgrade 25 resorts, 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, and other guest areas while expanding MK, adding/expanding resorts, completely overhauling DtD, and planning AvatarLand.
     
  6. jdb in AZ

    jdb in AZ <font color=green>It could end up curdled<br><font

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    Not to mention two mega cruise ships in the past two years which cost close to a billion each.
     
  7. meggiebeth

    meggiebeth Have faith in your dreams and someday your rainbow

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    I think it's ridiculous it's taking over a year for a ride to be completed since New Fantasyland's Grand Opening. We are going to WDW in November and probably won't be returning for a while so it is disappointing that we won't get to see the Mine Train.

    I think it's silly for the new fantasyland expansion to take so long- noticeably the time the Mine Train is taking to get built AFTER the New Fantasyland opening. I mean- there's really no reason it couldn't have opened at the same time as the rest of New Fantasyland. Obviously Disney wants to stretch things out though. :(

    Meg~ Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards
     
  8. swebb0310

    swebb0310 Mouseketeer

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    I hate that there are parts that aren't open for those who have been or are going to go soon because many families can't afford to go at all or very often. I do understand the frustration. I was there last summer and new fantasy land wasn't open at all. Just the double dumbos. I was really disappointed. But they did open up parts at a time at least so that guests can experience Belle's Village and the little Mermaid area. They have opened a ride as part of New Fantasyland.
    I personally feel that one of the things I love about Disney is the attention to detail.
    For example... You may or may not know this already, but the Imagineers on the Be Our Guest project hand shredded all if the tapestries, paintings, and draperies in the West Wing. They looked just like those found in the other rooms when they arrived. According to Chef Michael, this not only took time and care, but also led to many disagreements over HOW it should be done.
    I feel the Disney motto is to do it right. What is right is not always easy, or fast. I'm sure that they would love to be able to have the work completed so that they will be able to move on to other projects.
    I know it sucks though to plan a trip and miss something that will be new. So, I am sorry for your feelings.
     
  9. DCTooTall

    DCTooTall <MARQUEE BEHAVIOR=ALTERNATE><img src=http://www.em

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    I'm not sure it's fair to compare general maintenance (which landscaping is a part) for the entire resort to the same for Universal. that would be like comparing the cost of maintaining (including power/gas/water) for your 4bdrm house to the guy down the street living in a studio apartment.

    What this is is talking about the upgrades/additions within the space they already have. The Guy in the studio Apartment adding a 50in plasma TV w/ 7.1 Surround sound system, while the guy in the 4bdrm adds a 36in LCD he got at Walmart and saying "Look! I got something new too!"

    And Disney isn't adding/expanding resorts. DVC doesn't count because it's a pure money printing machine for Disney. There is AoA which was added.... but an argument can be said about them just completing the second half of POP which they already started. More importantly, Disney was primarily addressing the 1 room segment which was WOEFULLY under represented onsite.... A room that can hold more than 4 people. Disney was starting to see a lot of 5+ person families/groups start to head offsite because the cost of 2 value rooms or a DVC Villa at rack rates was too much for people to justify on top of all the other Disney expenses.

    That being said, Universal is also building a brand new hotel with family suites and accomdations/perks that appear to match Disney Moderates at a cheaper than Disney Value price.

    Also.... Disney has noone but themselves to blame for their need to "overhaul" DTD. Most of DTD's problems, which the planned overhaul is primarily looking to address.... are self inflicted. Part by bad planning to begin with (West Side being seperated from the Marketplace by a gated section for adults), and then made worse by decisions made in response to trying to resolve issues caused by the bad planning. (Opening up Pleasure Island to pedestrian traffic to improve guest flow between West Side and Marketplace.....resulting in underage kids being in the area, or families complaining about the people clubbing/drinking/parting in the 21+ area at night, as well as a removal of the streetside type entertainment as a result of the cover charge to enter the island.... and the removal of the single-ticket cover resulting in each club suddenly having to justify it's individual existance and budget instead of being part of a larger district.... which led to the decision to just close all the clubs at pleasure island.... which has given us 4+ years of empty buildings in the middle of marketplace and westside that is very unattractive and makes it even more difficult to justify the walk between the two areas.)

    Again.... Comparing Disney Cruise Line investments to Universal's Florida Park investments.... not really comparing apples to apples. "Hey look! I just built a house!" "That's cool.... I just built a small city!" Not really the same thing.

    I'll be fair.... There is one perfectly valid reason for the mine train not opening at the same time as the rest of new fantasyland.... with a little bit of extra leeway given for logistical reasons.

    1. the Mine train was a late addition to the plan. Ground was broken on the project and work started on BOG and LM buildings under the original expansion plans. It was a couple months later once Staggs was moved into his position over the parks that the original plans for the location now occupied by the mine train were changed to put the mine train there and to 86 the original plans that called for a couple more stand alone princess meet and greet locations. With the late change of plans I'm willing to give them a bit more leeway because of the potential additional engineering work required from dusting off this idea and working it, getting the components into place, and the fact that if it was part of the orginal plan, the original construction timetable could've been put together to make better use of time and resources as it's obvious the coaster requires a more complicated and involved engineering and construction process than a couple simple meet and greet show buildings.

    2. The location which the mountain is being built was used as a construction staging area during much of the early work on the rest of the new fantasyland construction. Again... as a late addition to the construction plans, I'll give them a bit more leeway since when they started construction and decided to use that central ground as the staging area, the plan was for that space to be used by a couple of simple meet and greet show buildings that could've been put up pretty quickly and easily. By the time the coaster was added, they were alreday committed to using the space for the construction of the other buildings, so there was a delay in when they could start the excavation and prep work on the site for the coaster construction.


    Soooo..... There are reasons for the delay.... but I can't give them a complete pass. They could provide more resources to the construction if they wanted too. And this whole thing wouldn't have been such an issue if there wasn't such disfunction and a desire to do things on the cheap to begin with with the Expansion. (Meet&Greets? Sweet! We don't have to spend much to build those!.... Wait... people are complaining they want more than just more lines to meet the princesses? dammit.... now we actually have to spend some money on something! :sad:
     
  10. DanBoris

    DanBoris DIS Veteran

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    If it has been part of the original plan for the expansion then it would probably be done by now, but early in the project they changed course and the Mine Ride was a late addition. The mine ride construction started about 1 1/2 years after the rest of the expansion.
     
  11. lockedoutlogic

    lockedoutlogic DIS Veteran

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    I'm not debating your opinion by any means....but i do try to make it a point on the highlighted sentence that no disney park or product has EVER been advertised, promised, or marketed as being "value" or "available to everyone".

    this is a world of haves and have nots...and disney travelers are in 99.9% more of the haves.

    Disney is not providing a public service...they are making profit for both themselves and countless millions of stockholders each day who check to see if the stock went up each night on their iPad...while they sit and watch tv.
     
  12. beer dave

    beer dave Master of the obvious

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    So what we seem to have here is an example of Disney changing the plans of a construction project mid stream to INCREASE the spending and the quality of the project. From all the posts on this site, I was lead to believe they would never do such a thing.

    Truth is stranger than fiction.
     
  13. Tonka's Skipper

    Tonka's Skipper DIS Veteran

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    As mentioned here many times, the last 10-12 years, WDW has been governed by the bean counters, hold back the imaginers form doing the excellent works they always did. The bean counters reduced maintained and other special thing in the WDW parks etc.:confused3

    Now, look back over the last 2-3 years, there are changes being made in management ..........seems that Disney has woken up !. There is a big increase in maintance and major refurbishment! We see in the last 1 or 2 years. lots of closed attractions for major refurbishment, maintaince expending (EI monorail , with much fewer break downs in the last year)

    Look at the Massive plans for DTD, after the small, poor Hyperion studios plans put out 23 years ago and quickly withdrawn.

    Look at Carsland in DR........it is excellently done and reviewed.......piles of people and increased attendance............:thumbsup2


    Just my observations......and readings, etc. Hope I am right.


    AKK
     
  14. twebber55

    twebber55 DIS Veteran

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    i ll feel better about it when dirt is actually being moved in both DHS and DAK but i agree hopefully the tide is turning
     
  15. rteetz

    rteetz DIS Veteran

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    I completely agree
     
  16. lockedoutlogic

    lockedoutlogic DIS Veteran

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    x3
     
  17. Prock

    Prock Mouseketeer

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    Another reason for the mine train taking so long is that it's an incredibly complex construction. Its easy to either build a coaster all indoors or all outdoors, but its really hard to do both, and then to add show scenes to it makes it even more complicated.

    The amount of excavating that was required for it was ridiculous, almost all of the coaster is below the surface of the magic kingdom, with some of the track going below the bottom of the utilidors.
     
  18. swebb0310

    swebb0310 Mouseketeer

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    Lockedoutlogic, I totally agree. :) I just understand how people can be disappointed by not getting to see whatever upcoming thing they are prepping because they know they won't get to go back or awhile. I don't think it's fair to be upset that Disney is not able to open the new attractions just because they are not going to be able to go back soon.
     
  19. DRDISNEYMD

    DRDISNEYMD *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* *+*~The Snow Queen~*+* ~A gi

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    ~You keep saying this, but how can I agree, when in turn you pat Mr. Pirate on the back when he refers to Disney as pandering to the people of Wal-Mart. Which one is it? It can't be both or can it? I have trouble defining who Disney appeals to -- working class, middle class -- the waters are murky, could be all of the above. You say Disney doesn't market value, but we have "value" resorts and free dining with refillable mugs. I'm not trying to argue, I just want to form my own opinion -- but I just don't have enough, I really don't know. But, when you agree with Mr. Pirate, you contradict yourself. Mr. Pirate's message is crystal clear, he feels Disney has become Walmart, your message is not clear.

    ~I'm with you Tonka, I really hope, so. My issue is that Disney's efforts appear to be reactive instead of proactive. There's a difference between a company that desires to redefine how we experience theme parks with new innovative experiences versus a company that's become complacent and does only what they have to just to save face. You made a comment about Carsland, but made no mention of the New Fantasyland. There was a time, when we didn't have to "hope" about being right -- it was expected. With that said, I really hope you're right.
     
  20. DanBoris

    DanBoris DIS Veteran

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    My understanding is that they did not increase the budget on the project, they cut Pixie Hollow to pay for the mine ride.
     
  21. DCTooTall

    DCTooTall <MARQUEE BEHAVIOR=ALTERNATE><img src=http://www.em

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    The problem is that the "Value" resorts, aren't really a value ($150/night for a bunch of oversized props outside a glorified motel 6?)... and "Free Dining" isn't a great deal either for most people..... and it's also being phased out now that the big travel downturns are starting to reverse. Even the refillable mugs are starting to get chipp'd to make them not so unlimted refill-y anymore. (And honestly, Soda and soda water are cheap.)

    Disney can pander to the masses... while still pricing themselves above the masses. If you look at their advertising campaigns, You can see how they are trying to play themselves off as the "wonderful, magical, once in a lifetime experience". They are counting on the walmart masses to save up for a year or 2 and blowing all their money on a big disney trip.

    :thumbsup2:thumbsup2

    If they increased the budget... it wasn't by much. they cut 3 glorfied meet and greet attractions/areas for 1 coaster style attraction. However, I think most of the prep work was already done and sitting on a shelf. It also benefited from a changing in guard.... and a big public outcry about how unexciting the original plans were.

    First off... You have a changing of the guard. The new guy comes in early in a major capital project and wants to put his stamp on it. It happens all the time when a new guy comes in and changes things that his predecessor started in order to leave a legacy of his own.

    Second... You have some rather loud public complaints about the original plan because Disney was spending all this money and hyping it as a HUGE addition to the parks.... and ultimately all they were giving us was a new restaurant, a new omnimover ride, and a bunch of Meet and Greets. All of it, Princess centric. You had 2 camps complaining, 1 that were complaining that it was all very girl-y and there wasn't much boys would enjoy... and you had the camp complaining about how Disney was spending all this money, but a majority of what we were getting was big glorified versions taking up a ton of real estate for what we already had pre-updates in the Toontown tents..... IOW's.... Disney wasn't really giving us anything new with all that construction and spending but was just shuffling around the existing offerings.


    So.... We ended up with a change (and potential budget increase) because someone in power wanted to show he did something and contributed to the project.... and someone realized that Disney was potentially heading to a huge PR mess from another large project not meeting expectations and potentially generating complaints. (ie... Imaginations Refurb 1, AK.... DCA Version 1.... etc etc).
     

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