Regrets?

[Dean]

I'm not sure if you have access to Fitchs ABS timeshare reporting but historically the annual default rate on timeshares has been just under 10 percent to over 20 percent. If not, you can google it and sign up for the service. Fitch has been tracking timeshares since 1997. These stats represent owners who finance timeshares. ARDA estimates 53 percent finance their timeshare.

I don't claim to be a math guy but if there are 9 million timeshare owners and more than half have financed and of that 4.5 million around 12 to 13 percent have defaulted annually on average since 1997, it's safe to assume 100 percent turnover in a 10 year period off this stat alone. Maybe I am wrong but it seems about right.

We'd have to have more information to make any judgements on that type of information. As a minimum it'd include a lot of people who buy on the whim and don't use the timeshares and likely some repeat offenders, both skewing the numbers dramatically. Any timeshare that loses 10% of the dues paying members per year ongoing isn't going to survive.

For me I personally try to get my money out of a timeshare. What that means is if I pay 10k towards a timeshare, better believe I will get this back in profit before I sell DVC by renting points. With DVC it is very easy to profit $7 pp. On BLT I can profit $10 pp.

I estimate that I would have to sell 1,420 points to get my 10k back @ $7 pp profit. I plan on doing this before I sell. Depending on the contract, it could take 7 years to 10 years to do this.

Again, many timeshares you cannot do this because the demand isn't there. But this is why DVC is such a good deal.

If you include the time value of money on the upfront an dues, it's generally a longer period to see a return but like many other things, it totally depends on the costs going in as the main variable. Plus one has to have at least some return of principle to look at it financially for DVC since the values will decrease over time, likely in absolute numbers but as a minimum when inflation is considered.

 

[djohn06]

We'd have to have more information to make any judgements on that type of information. As a minimum it'd include a lot of people who buy on the whim and don't use the timeshares and likely some repeat offenders, both skewing the numbers dramatically. Any timeshare that loses 10% of the dues paying members per year ongoing isn't going to survive.

If you include the time value of money on the upfront an dues, it's generally a longer period to see a return but like many other things, it totally depends on the costs going in as the main variable. Plus one has to have at least some return of principle to look at it financially for DVC since the values will decrease over time, likely in absolute numbers but as a minimum when inflation is considered.

I don't factor in TVM because I am using funds marked as entertainment. I follow the simple philosphy of 10% tithing, 45% bills, 25% savings, the rest to me. DVC falls in the category of the rest to me. No plans to invest DVC money because I already have 25% yearly going into my portfolio. That's more than enough.

ARDA has very similar numbers except they make it difficult to find, i think ARDA mentioned default rates in the 6% range for 2015. But, I think ARDA has a definite agenda so they do a good job of surpressing these stats as much as possible.

I am sure the numbers include lots of people who look at Timeshares as "the first to go" during times of trouble. But, that's the reality of the industry.

 

[EZMoney]

Bill,

I think I want to buy at Sarasota springs for what I perceive as value. The wife wants to buy at either the Floridian or Alunai because she doesn't think we will ever be able to book at those two in a prime window.

I would not buy into Aulani. You can rent points to get there any year from dvcrequest. As far as Floridian, I think the price per point there is too high and I would rather get more points for my money at Bay Lake Tower or Wilderness Lodge or Beach Club Villas. I think you really need to consider what type of vacations you plan on taking and how many points you will need. If I had to do it again, I would consider resales because the price seems far better, but I bought into Bay Lake Tower in the construction phase and sold it a couple of years later (when we received news of overseas opportunities) for a small profit. I'm glad we don't have to worry about annual dues, but if I knew that RCI was going to change their trading power policy so drastically, I would have hung on to DVC. For us, Disney runs plenty of specials to take advantage of anyway so we are plenty happy with that.

 

[AnnaGiselle]

We just purchased at Poly last weekend and every single person I asked said their only regret was that they didn't purchase sooner.

We're recently married and no kids yet with 50 years of DVC ahead of us. That means we will be able to take our children, and even their children. I cannot describe how giddy that makes me! I think it really depends on your situation if it's great for you. When we were deciding, I looked at my husband and said that I never wanted to NOT come back. It's my happy place and investing now was our best financial option

I'm in such a similar boat! I'm getting married in April 2016 and my fiancé and I both LOVE Disney World. We toured DVC on Monday and are thinking about all the same reasons that you listed (example, we just left WDW on Monday and I already can't wait to to be back in January for my bachelorette and do all the rides again!). Our biggest hesitations are 1) we still have a wedding to pay for, so that kind of comes first, and 2) we're hesitant to finance it because of Disney's somewhat hefty interest rate. Yet, how many people pay for 100 points outright?

P.S. Your MK bridal shoot in your signature is gorgeous! I love your dress.

 

[kniquy]

I'm in such a similar boat! I'm getting married in April 2016 and my fiancé and I both LOVE Disney World. We toured DVC on Monday and are thinking about all the same reasons that you listed (example, we just left WDW on Monday and I already can't wait to to be back in January for my bachelorette and do all the rides again!). Our biggest hesitations are 1) we still have a wedding to pay for, so that kind of comes first, and 2) we're hesitant to finance it because of Disney's somewhat hefty interest rate. Yet, how many people pay for 100 points outright?

P.S. Your MK bridal shoot in your signature is gorgeous! I love your dress.

This might be a little off topic and please do not take offense, but i really wish people would not spend so much money on one day (the wedding day). I know with gifts from people sometimes you can make out ok. I did a big wedding first time around and it really wasn't as enjoyable as I was hoping -- with taking photos and having so many people to go around to see - I didn't eat much, barely drank and poof the night was over and we had spent $25,000 (over 10 years ago so I know things are more expensive now)- not including the honeymoon. I remarried just this year and we did a small intimate family wedding and it was the most enjoyable day from start to finish. We still had a photographer, had our ceremony at a beautiful outdoor location and a dinner at an upscale local inn. I am sure it is too late now, but just think how you could purchase years of family enjoyment with a DVC contract vs putting the money into the wedding day. This is just me wishing i had done things differently the first time around - you live and learn a lot!!

You ask who pays for 100 points outright -- many do but that is due to the time and effort put into saving the money. We just purchased our first 120 pt resale and will be comfortable with the year MF payment. It rarely makes sense to finance an entertainment item. I believe there is small way of some tax write offs with financing, but i think that is only if you do direct from DVC. I have heard of some people financing but paying it off in a year or two. You just need to see what makes the most sense financially for the future, many things can change after you get married. If you plan on kids (+ daycare), home renovation or new home, need a new car. Those things that can make the loan payment plus the yearly MF for DVC a burden. We are comfortable with the yearly MF, but certainly would not want and additional monthly payment for the contract.

 

[AnnaGiselle]

This might be a little off topic and please do not take offense, but i really wish people would not spend so much money on one day (the wedding day). I know with gifts from people sometimes you can make out ok. I did a big wedding first time around and it really wasn't as enjoyable as I was hoping -- with taking photos and having so many people to go around to see - I didn't eat much, barely drank and poof the night was over and we had spent $25,000 (over 10 years ago so I know things are more expensive now)- not including the honeymoon. I remarried just this year and we did a small intimate family wedding and it was the most enjoyable day from start to finish. We still had a photographer, had our ceremony at a beautiful outdoor location and a dinner at an upscale local inn. I am sure it is too late now, but just think how you could purchase years of family enjoyment with a DVC contract vs putting the money into the wedding day. This is just me wishing i had done things differently the first time around - you live and learn a lot!!

You ask who pays for 100 points outright -- many do but that is due to the time and effort put into saving the money. We just purchased our first 120 pt resale and will be comfortable with the year MF payment. It rarely makes sense to finance an entertainment item. I believe there is small way of some tax write offs with financing, but i think that is only if you do direct from DVC. I have heard of some people financing but paying it off in a year or two. You just need to see what makes the most sense financially for the future, many things can change after you get married. If you plan on kids (+ daycare), home renovation or new home, need a new car. Those things that can make the loan payment plus the yearly MF for DVC a burden. We are comfortable with the yearly MF, but certainly would not want and additional monthly payment for the contract.

While I'm very happy with the wedding we're planning, I will be the first to admit that weddings have become an over the top industry. Not to get into financials, but we could potentially pay for the wedding and buy a DVC resale right now, but I'm a saver and just won't allow myself to do it haha! When doing the DVC tour, the guide told us that the majority of people finance it, which just didn't appeal to us (unless it was, as you point out, paid off in a year or two, but not the 10 years that Disney suggested). So I got the sense from him that not a lot of people bought outright, but maybe I'm wrong? We're really just now getting into the DVC research and deciding what would be best for us and our future.

 

[kniquy]

While I'm very happy with the wedding we're planning, I will be the first to admit that weddings have become an over the top industry. Not to get into financials, but we could potentially pay for the wedding and buy a DVC resale right now, but I'm a saver and just won't allow myself to do it haha! When doing the DVC tour, the guide told us that the majority of people finance it, which just didn't appeal to us (unless it was, as you point out, paid off in a year or two, but not the 10 years that Disney suggested). So I got the sense from him that not a lot of people bought outright, but maybe I'm wrong? We're really just now getting into the DVC research and deciding what would be best for us and our future.

I think buying directly through Disney at their inflated prices -- most probably do need to finance. Even a small (minimum) contract could be $15-20K You could have your beautiful wedding and purchase a smaller resale contract and have a Disney honeymoon (doesn't just have to be in FL could be Hawaii!!). That way the money you would have spent on a honeymoon could actually be put towards a contact. On the regrets list some people have noted buying too large of a contract at one place vs a few smaller contracts. We started fairly small (120 pts for a little over 9K) but we shall see how that goes and will add on in the future if needed. If you are in the research stage then scour the ROFR thread to see what people are paying for different contracts for each resort. Looking at the actual DVC resale listing will give you an idea of pricing but the ROFR will tell you what has passed through and what people are actually paying price per point.

Good luck on the wedding plans!!

 

[crisi]

I'm in such a similar boat! I'm getting married in April 2016 and my fiancé and I both LOVE Disney World. We toured DVC on Monday and are thinking about all the same reasons that you listed (example, we just left WDW on Monday and I already can't wait to to be back in January for my bachelorette and do all the rides again!). Our biggest hesitations are 1) we still have a wedding to pay for, so that kind of comes first, and 2) we're hesitant to finance it because of Disney's somewhat hefty interest rate. Yet, how many people pay for 100 points outright?

P.S. Your MK bridal shoot in your signature is gorgeous! I love your dress.

A lot of us buy it outright. (I had a loan for three weeks for mine until my husband's bonus hit the bank because I didn't want to sell stock and rebuy it or drain my savings account just in case. And we have a HELOC so borrowing transitional cash is easy. And my husband's bonus more than covered our points - 150 worth of them)

And take a look at DVC in the scope of everything you want to do financially right now. You have a wedding to pay for. Do you own a house? Are you going to start saving for one? Do those expensive little things called kids come into the picture? How will Disney fit into the picture when you have four park tickets to buy? How about when the kids are teenagers and you are looking at tickets for four "Disney adults" and feeding two teenage boys? What are your other goals as you spend your life together? How are you going to finance them.

Now, the answers to those questions might be such that DVC will work out for you, or it may be something that three years from now, with $20k in daycare bills, you are regretting.

 

[cedricandsophie]

we have owned since 1998. Hav accumulated over 1400 points spread out over seven resorts including Aulani and Vero beach. Don't regret one penny. Some were direct buys and others resale. We don't do the parks very much anymore. Love the resorts, pools, restaurants, etc. have been to Aulani four times since we bought and will go again next year. Our maintenance fees are pricey but the way we use our points we feel like we get a lot of value for them. Over an 18 month period, we used or gave to family and friends over 60 days at Disney resorts. My very basic calculation...knowing that the two bedroom at Aulani goes for about 1500 to 2000 a night and we used it for 10 days or the three bedroom cottage at Vero which we used for three nights goes for about 800 to 1000 a night and that the smallest place we ever get is a one bedroom...I could assume the value of the rooms we used were in the area of around 40000 to 50000 over that period. I know accountants out there will say thsts a ridiculous way to look at it, but we would never pay 2000 a night for a room otherwise. And since our maintenance fees run about 9000 a year, it feels like a deal to us. Obviously we paid a lot for all the points...around 100,000 I'm assuming, purchased over a 10 or 12 year period and we didn't have to finance which is a blessing. But I do feel we get our money's worth every year.

 

[jerseygal]

We just purchased at Poly last weekend and every single person I asked said their only regret was that they didn't purchase sooner.

We're recently married and no kids yet with 50 years of DVC ahead of us. That means we will be able to take our children, and even their children. I cannot describe how giddy that makes me! I think it really depends on your situation if it's great for you. When we were deciding, I looked at my husband and said that I never wanted to NOT come back. It's my happy place and investing now was our best financial option

CONGRATS on your wedding and welcome to DVC! We really enjoy it; travel with our 2 older sons, travel by ourselves now, and looking forward to taking future grandkids! ALWAYS somewhere fun to go! ENJOY! PS.. Your wedding pics look BEAUTIFUL!

 

[jerseygal]

So I toured the floridian and I'm currently staying at the Marriott next to Aulani and toured there. It's beautiful.

I've read the forums and scoured the resale sites. I just can not decide where to buy.

What regrets or I would have done this differently stories does everyone have?

NO REGRETS here! Really enjoy it! GOOD LUCK with your purchase decision!

 

[djohn06]

According to ARDA 47 percent finance a timeshare. However, the average owner is age 51. You can probably guess that most under 35 are financing.

Financing is a personal decision. What are these funds allocated for in your budget? If it's entertainment, and you are already saving at least 20 percent of your yearly earnings, I say go for it! Nobody does your job like you. No one knows what makes you happy in life.

I find people blow money everyday. Some blow it on shoes, their house, some buy lots of pets, some go to sporting events, some love cars. For me I blow it on vacationing only and it is 100% worth it. Oh and when the Mrs. Djohn06 wants jewelry.

 

[michelleiada]

I love my DVC. My only regret is not buying sooner. I did not purchase DVC as a financial investment. I purchased DVC to make family memories. That said, my contract at BCV is worth much more today than what I paid in 2012....but I'm not selling so that doesn't really matter.

 

[emmybee]

My hubby and I have thought about DVC in the past, and since taking a tour this past week, we are thinking about it again. We are West Coasters, and if we went through Disney directly, we would be buying into Aulani. The salesperson made it sound like we could easily make accommodations at the Grand Californian 7 months out in either the villas, or a regular hotel room at the Grand. I am just now starting to comb through the forums, but it seems that this flexibility does not actually exist in practice? People have also mentioned outgrowing Disney, which I get, but again, the salesperson stated that you can use your points outside of Disney for stays w/ their partner companies not just in the States, but in properties around the world. Seeing as how many people here seem to have multiple contracts on the East Coast, is the DVC really best suited for folks who live in that region?

 

[disneynutz]

My hubby and I have thought about DVC in the past, and since taking a tour this past week, we are thinking about it again. We are West Coasters, and if we went through Disney directly, we would be buying into Aulani. The salesperson made it sound like we could easily make accommodations at the Grand Californian 7 months out in either the villas, or a regular hotel room at the Grand. I am just now starting to comb through the forums, but it seems that this flexibility does not actually exist in practice? People have also mentioned outgrowing Disney, which I get, but again, the salesperson stated that you can use your points outside of Disney for stays w/ their partner companies not just in the States, but in properties around the world. Seeing as how many people here seem to have multiple contracts on the East Coast, is the DVC really best suited for folks who live in that region?

Best use is for you to buy where you will stay the most. VGC is a challenging to book at 7 months, Aulani is expensive and worth owning there if you want to vacation there every year. WDW ownership is worth it because IMO you get more bang for your buck, more parks and more resorts. DVC points can be used outside of Disney but using them for a DVC room is where the best savings is.

All resorts can be purchased at a savings via resale from a prior owner.

Bill

 

[staceymay00]

So I toured the floridian and I'm currently staying at the Marriott next to Aulani and toured there. It's beautiful.

I've read the forums and scoured the resale sites. I just can not decide where to buy.

What regrets or I would have done this differently stories does everyone have?

I have no regrets - we bought resale at OKW almost six years ago. The one thing I might have done differently is buy at BWV for walking distance to two parks. We like BWV and it is more difficult to book at 7 months than OKW. Then again, I think there will come a time when we want to book OKW GVs and owning there can be necessary for that. So, even today we might still choose to buy at OKW because we like it and have no problem being "stuck" there. If you want to regularly stay at a few different resorts, I would buy the one that is most difficult to book at 7 months...unless there is a huge price difference, then I would weigh cost as well unless I only wanted to stay at the more expensive resort.

 

[Drewski77]

My hubby and I have thought about DVC in the past, and since taking a tour this past week, we are thinking about it again. We are West Coasters, and if we went through Disney directly, we would be buying into Aulani. The salesperson made it sound like we could easily make accommodations at the Grand Californian 7 months out in either the villas, or a regular hotel room at the Grand. I am just now starting to comb through the forums, but it seems that this flexibility does not actually exist in practice? People have also mentioned outgrowing Disney, which I get, but again, the salesperson stated that you can use your points outside of Disney for stays w/ their partner companies not just in the States, but in properties around the world. Seeing as how many people here seem to have multiple contracts on the East Coast, is the DVC really best suited for folks who live in that region?

My wife and I live on the West Coast and we just completed a resale purchase at the Grand Californian. I would suggest going this route as the Grand will be extremely difficult to book at 7 months out while Aulani should be much of an issue. Plus the annual MF are cheaper for the Grand, and I would imagine Aulani's will continue to go up more than most given its location.

 

[AulaniNutz]

My hubby and I have thought about DVC in the past, and since taking a tour this past week, we are thinking about it again. We are West Coasters, and if we went through Disney directly, we would be buying into Aulani. The salesperson made it sound like we could easily make accommodations at the Grand Californian 7 months out in either the villas, or a regular hotel room at the Grand. I am just now starting to comb through the forums, but it seems that this flexibility does not actually exist in practice? People have also mentioned outgrowing Disney, which I get, but again, the salesperson stated that you can use your points outside of Disney for stays w/ their partner companies not just in the States, but in properties around the world. Seeing as how many people here seem to have multiple contracts on the East Coast, is the DVC really best suited for folks who live in that region?

I am a West Coaster as well and own at Aulani and am about to close on BLT resale. Since I bought into the Aulani, I've been watching the availability and it seems to have plenty of availability at seven months for what I like, studio or 1 bdrm Ocean View. The standard view stuff seems to go faster. So for now, I sort of question my investment in Aulani, maybe I should have bought VGC. It is pretty hard to get into VGC at seven months for a studio. Looking today, I see that the seven month mark is booked. We have successfully waitlisted twice and failed once for VGC in the past three years. I am waitlisted right now for the second weekend in Dec, and I did that at 8AM at 7 months.

That all said, Aulani can be had at ~$100/point while VGC is ~$150. And if you are patient you can get an Aulani deal with the subsidized MF. I don't know what VGC was going for when I bought Aulani, so I can't second guess myself too much..

We like to go to Hawaii every year or two, and we use to go in off-seasons when airfare was less expensive. Right now with DD and her school, we need to travel during the peak times , so airfare is more expensive, to either Florida or Hawaii. At least with Hawaii, if you get an Alaskan Airline card you get a companion fare to Hawaii for $120/year. You can usually get a decent fare to MCO from SFO or LAX. And VGC is a six hour drive for us. Once DD is on her way and out of the house, both locations will be fairly inexpensive to travel to -- assuming oil doesn't go back over $100/barrel!

I don't believe in using DVC points for Grand Californian regular hotel rooms -- better to rent out your points and then just pay cash. You have to pay a fee to get a hotel room with DVC points and you lose flexibility - IMHO cash is king for the hotel room.

We plan on using BLT points to augment our needs to Hawaii, and then trips to Disneyworld for F&W, SWW, garden show, and just fun. We chose BLT as it is on Monorail, has reasonable points/room, reasonable availability, reasonable buy in price (that's relative!), and walking distance to MK. I have been lucky getting BWV for two SWW trips, so I'm going to just keep trying to get lucky for BWV and if I don't get in, I still get to "stay where I like".

I'm presently happy with my Aulani, though I wish I knew more about resale when I had bought -- I bought direct. I believe the mouse got me for about $20 more pp than I should have paid.

Aulani -- go resale and look for subsidized MF.
VGC -- go resale and you know you'll get in when you want and you can still use for Aulani.

YMMV.

 

[dsnydaddy]

So I toured the floridian and I'm currently staying at the Marriott next to Aulani and toured there. It's beautiful.

I've read the forums and scoured the resale sites. I just can not decide where to buy.

What regrets or I would have done this differently stories does everyone have?

You are in much the same position that I found myself in last year. I was staying at the Marriott Ko Olina and LOVED IT!. Then spent one night at the Aulani and was amazed. Learned two things on that trip. One, it is far easier to travel with two kids (one a teen and the other a pre-teen) when staying in a one or two bedroom rather than a studio. And Two, DVC will get me back to that paradise!

Now, on to your question. VGF was not really that big of a deal for us as I didn't much like it. (I like nice stuff, but that place really made me feel out of place. Like staying in a museum. Can't touch anything!) So, SSR was an excellent choice for our budget. I asked my wife a dozen times what might be better for her but she really doesn't mind as long as she's in WDW. It was a choice between buying Aulani or SSR and the Aulani can be had during most times of the year at 7 mos so SSR won. If that changes then I might buy a second contract there. But for right now we are very happy with our decision.

 

[purplegirl1818]

CONGRATS on your wedding and welcome to DVC! We really enjoy it; travel with our 2 older sons, travel by ourselves now, and looking forward to taking future grandkids! ALWAYS somewhere fun to go! ENJOY! PS.. Your wedding pics look BEAUTIFUL!

You are too sweet. Thank you so much!