RCL Anthem in rough storm yesterday

[dmunsil]

One thing that came up in a huge and contentious thread on another forum is that the captain did a 20-ish minute talk with the cruise director just after they got out of the storm, which was broadcast on the ship. People recorded it and put it on YouTube. I found it fascinating, as they went through the weather maps and talked about how they ended up in the middle of a hurricane-sized storm. The captain says that less than 24 hours before the storm hit them they were still thinking they'd see 40-50 knot winds with 4-5 meter seas, which might be bumpy but totally manageable. So they certainly didn't predict the storm would be this big; whether they should have predicted it is a whole other question.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

One thing that came up in a huge and contentious thread on another forum is that the captain did a 20-ish minute talk with the cruise director just after they got out of the storm, which was broadcast on the ship. People recorded it and put it on YouTube. I found it fascinating, as they went through the weather maps and talked about how they ended up in the middle of a hurricane-sized storm. The captain says that less than 24 hours before the storm hit them they were still thinking they'd see 40-50 knot winds with 4-5 meter seas, which might be bumpy but totally manageable. So they certainly didn't predict the storm would be this big; whether they should have predicted it is a whole other question.

Except weather man and woman all over the USA, including Al Roker on Today, were showing written reports from Friday that the storm was going to be more severe then that and in line with what finially developed....AKK

 

[srferson]

Nothing legal to talk about....that is a politician looking for votes......

There is nothing to indicate the vessel was not sea worthy and he obliviously handled her well in the storm and she survived and is returning to port.

Now their maybe a civil issue ......but that is also unlikely to be directed to the captain directly they would be looking to deep pockets........RCCL...........

All in my opinion.

AKK

I assume you intended to type obviously. But I think your typo works well. Apparently they were oblivious.

 

[dmunsil]

Except weather man and woman all over the USA, including Al Roker on Today, were showing written reports from Friday that the storm was going to be more severe then that and in line with what finially developed....AKK

I think that will certainly be examined by RCI. Perhaps RCI relied on their own meteorological analysis, which said something different. Or maybe the captain relied on his own experience with weather patterns, which didn't include accounting for an unusual weather pattern like this one.

I think we can all agree that the captain didn't anticipate this storm, because no one would sail through a storm of that intensity intentionally. Whether he should have anticipated it is an open question. I'll let RCI and whoever else is looking into this figure that out.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I assume you intended to type obviously. But I think your typo works well. Apparently they were oblivious.

My pardon, between my stiff big fingers and the auto correct, I am never sure what ends up being typed!!! Sorry!

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I think that will certainly be examined by RCI. Perhaps RCI relied on their own meteorological analysis, which said something different. Or maybe the captain relied on his own experience with weather patterns, which didn't include accounting for an unusual weather pattern like this one.

I think we can all agree that the captain didn't anticipate this storm, because no one would sail through a storm of that intensity intentionally. Whether he should have anticipated it is an open question. I'll let RCI and whoever else is looking into this figure that out.

As I said before, I am not going to 2nd guess the Master, as I don't have all the facts.

AKK

 

[srferson]

My pardon, between my stiff big fingers and the auto correct, I am never sure what ends up being typed!!! Sorry!

AKK

No need to be sorry. I just thought it was an amusingly appropriate typo/auto correct.

 

[truck1]

Except weather man and woman all over the USA, including Al Roker on Today, were showing written reports from Friday that the storm was going to be more severe then that and in line with what finially developed....AKK

My one and only question, is that if the weather guessers were saying this was going to be bad etc.......... for what part of the ocean were they saying it was going to be bad? If they were saying near shore, up to 10 miles out, hurricane force winds, 30 foot waves etc, but 30 miles off the coast, its 50 mph winds, and 20 foot waves, How is it RCCLs fault if the storm was further out then predicted? I'm not defending RCCL in anyway shape or form, just throwing a what if out there. Not to mention that Al and the rest of the weather guessers and armchair quarter backs probably didn't have the info from the sea buoys and other ships in the area. Just because they say hurricane force winds doesn't mean that that the entire ocean will have hurricane force winds.

 

[ilovetexas]

I'm having a hard time believing RCCL knowingly sailed into a storm that rough. There is just no way. No one person makes that decision, it's a team of people. Surely the team of people isn't that stupid. I haven't studied this one too much, I've been busy, but the only thing that would really get my attention is if other cruise lines held ships in port that day. Off the top of my head, NCL Breakaway is home ported up there; did they sail or stay in NY?

I think they looked at weather maps and thought they had a way around it and sailed. All cruise lines do it all the time. Sometimes, they mis-calculate. I've been confined to my cabin with 20+ foot waves crashing around me, barf bags all over the ship and nothing to eat because everything was closed and nobody could move. It sucks but I wasn't mad at the captain or the cruise line. Regardless, makes me wish for more ocean liners and fewer cruise ships!!!

 

[ilovetexas]

Then again, that storm I was caught in...Carnival and Disney held ships in Port Canaveral that night. We were trying to get back up to Jacksonville. RCCL sailed and damaged one of their ships and hurt some passengers. This was back in October of 2011. Maybe they are stupid...

 

[michellekcm]

There's an interesting court case going on in Australia at the moment about a Carnival cruise. It was meant to go to New Caledonia and some other islands, but because of a storm, instead of heading north from Sydney to the Pacific islands, it headed south and stopped in Melbourne and Hobart instead.

A group of passengers have launched a class action against Carnival saying that they should have told them before leaving that they weren't going to the Pacific, since they knew in advance, instead of only telling them once they had left port. (They did travel north a few hours before turning around.) Carnival is saying that their contract says no compensation for changes due to weather (like all of them do), so they owe nothing. IIRC, they didn't get any compensation at the time either, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

So, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Sail into the storm and you're in major trouble. Sail away from the storm and passengers will sue you. To be fair, I get that going to cold Melbourne and Hobart is nothing like warm Pacific Islands, so it's disappointing, but wouldn't you rather be safe??? Looking at the pictures from the Anthem, I'd much rather be in a cold but safe port than confined to my room with no food and things flying everywhere...

 

[truck1]

Then again, that storm I was caught in...Carnival and Disney held ships in Port Canaveral that night. We were trying to get back up to Jacksonville. RCCL sailed and damaged one of their ships and hurt some passengers. This was back in October of 2011. Maybe they are stupid...

No, I don't think they were stupid. What happened in that case, and almost a year to the date later, was that the weather info was grossly mis forecast. RCCL was the first ship to leave based on the available info. Instead of finding the predicted 10-15 foot waves, it was closer to 30 and the winds were way stronger then forecast. FOS called in and said hey this is bad. DCL and CCL stayed put until the storm passed. If I remember the CCL ship coming down from Jacksonville was saying the same thing about the same time. In 2012 during Sandy, DCL took the chance on the available info, and tried to slip up the coast behind the storm. Sandy had other ideas and pummeled the Fantasy. Fantasy was the ship this time saying this is bad. So CCL and RCCL stood off. Sandy broke a lot of long standing suppositions for hurricanes. Sandy was a storm that at one point, reached from Maine to the Fl keys.

In the end, the ships rely on a combination of sea buoys, weather guessers, satellite data, and other ships. All it takes is a storm to say I'm not following the rules and all bets are off.

 

[ilovetexas]

Yeah, I was kinda kidding; I don't think they were stupid. I think they did what they do and Mother Nature did what she does. I followed what happened in 2011 pretty closely since I was stuck in it. We were on the CCL Fascination headed back up to Jacksonville. The seas started getting ugly while we were in the Bahamas; we skipped Freeport, I guess trying to avoid the worst of the storm. We were unsuccessful. I understand that Anthem passengers were scared to death; we were too back then. It's frightening to be on a vessel you have no control over, seasick, can't stand up straight, listening to things crash everywhere, etc. BUT, if you're going to sail you have to deal with it. I've been on 14 cruises and only had that happen once. Well...Gulf of Alaska after Labor Day was a bit of a hay ride but that's to be expected!

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

My one and only question, is that if the weather guessers were saying this was going to be bad etc.......... for what part of the ocean were they saying it was going to be bad? If they were saying near shore, up to 10 miles out, hurricane force winds, 30 foot waves etc, but 30 miles off the coast, its 50 mph winds, and 20 foot waves, How is it RCCLs fault if the storm was further out then predicted? I'm not defending RCCL in anyway shape or form, just throwing a what if out there. Not to mention that Al and the rest of the weather guessers and armchair quarter backs probably didn't have the info from the sea buoys and other ships in the area. Just because they say hurricane force winds doesn't mean that that the entire ocean will have hurricane force winds.

Good Question and good points.....short answer.......we do not have the information and details to answer it.

The one mistake RCCL did make is sending out that notice that the storm was worse then they expected. That set the whole weather *guessers* as you put, it in a up roar, because they were predicting 100 mile an hour winds on Friday and they have the proof in the reports. That raised questions in some peoples minds of a cover up.


You are also right that winds in a storm circulation like that massive ones vary easily from 50 MPH to 100 MPH.

As I have said before, I will not 2nd guess the Master, and no one else here should either., I don't have the details of the weather reports he had. As you said, where was it 50 mph winds and where it was 100 mph, the track of the storm etc. We also don't now where he was and when and how the vessel was handling the weather. From what I have seen and hread, the Master is a great job in handling his vessel in severe weather conditions.

Just because there is a really bad storm out there, doesn't mean the Master should not have sailed. What I saw of his chart and he had a plan, but the storm beat him to the punch. It was a rough place with the coastal USA sitting there, limiting his choices.

As to was it RCCL fault if the weather changed?..................The Master is responsible for his vessel, it was his decision in the end whether to sail or not and where to go. If his actions were prudent, based on good principals of seamanship and the conditions,....No he was not at fault, neither the Master or RCCL was at fault. Now if he sailed just to complete the cruise and did not act prudently..........then both he and RCCL have some problems.

I will say this, I do not believe the Master sailed just to complete the cruise.

I hope this made sense

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I'm having a hard time believing RCCL knowingly sailed into a storm that rough. There is just no way. No one person makes that decision, it's a team of people. Surely the team of people isn't that stupid. I haven't studied this one too much, I've been busy, but the only thing that would really get my attention is if other cruise lines held ships in port that day. Off the top of my head, NCL Breakaway is home ported up there; did they sail or stay in NY?

I think they looked at weather maps and thought they had a way around it and sailed. All cruise lines do it all the time. Sometimes, they mis-calculate. I've been confined to my cabin with 20+ foot waves crashing around me, barf bags all over the ship and nothing to eat because everything was closed and nobody could move. It sucks but I wasn't mad at the captain or the cruise line. Regardless, makes me wish for more ocean liners and fewer cruise ships!!!

Hi there Ilovetexas.

Your wrong!.............sort of!

With the money and other things at stake, yes of course the Master is calling to any number of people in the office, the vessel manager, executives, weather services, etc. However in the end, the office can order him not to sail but they cannot order him to sail. The one and only person who orders that vessel to sail is the MASTER. if he say no its no (of course he better have really good reasons). if he says sail, he does.


I have one liner coming out in a few years.........S/S United States! (I hope)

AKK

 

[truck1]

Good Question and good points.....short answer.......we do not have the information and details to answer it.

The one mistake RCCL did make is sending out that notice that the storm was worse then they expected. That set the whole weather *guessers* as you put, it in a up roar, because they were predicting 100 mile an hour winds on Friday and they have the proof in the reports. That raised questions in some peoples minds of a cover up.


You are also right that winds in a storm circulation like that massive ones vary easily from 50 MPH to 100 MPH.

As I have said before, I will not 2nd guess the Master, and no one else here should either., I don't have the details of the weather reports he had. As you said, where was it 50 mph winds and where it was 100 mph, the track of the storm etc. We also don't now where he was and when and how the vessel was handling the weather. From what I have seen and hread, the Master is a great job in handling his vessel in severe weather conditions.

Just because there is a really bad storm out there, doesn't mean the Master should not have sailed. What I saw of his chart and he had a plan, but the storm beat him to the punch. It was a rough place with the coastal USA sitting there, limiting his choices.

As to was it RCCL fault if the weather changed?..................The Master is responsible for his vessel, it was his decision in the end whether to sail or not and where to go. If his actions were prudent, based on good principals of seamanship and the conditions,....No he was not at fault, neither the Master or RCCL was at fault. Now if he sailed just to complete the cruise and did not act prudently..........then both he and RCCL have some problems.

I will say this, I do not believe the Master sailed just to complete the cruise.

I hope this made sense

AKK

I agree, and it goes back to the DCL trip during Sandy, the FOS the year before that, the list goes on. I wasn't on the bridge and I didn't get a phone call asking my opinion and I doubt anyone on this board did either. Well never know what went back and forth between corporate and any of the other players in this case, and I'm not going to 2nd guess what his intentions were. Al and his friends might be really good at predicting weather on land but at sea, its a totally different animal. Theres probably only a handful of people that can do that, and even fewer that are really good at it.

 

[ilovetexas]

Hi there Ilovetexas.

Your wrong!.............sort of!

With the money and other things at stake, yes of course the Master is calling to any number of people in the office, the vessel manager, executives, weather services, etc. However in the end, the office can order him not to sail but they cannot order him to sail. The one and only person who orders that vessel to sail is the MASTER. if he say no its no (of course he better have really good reasons). if he says sail, he does.


I have one liner coming out in a few years.........S/S United States! (I hope)

AKK

Well, sure! That's what I meant, you just said it better. No captain worth his salt is going to go on a pleasure cruise with 6,000 people onboard if he thinks it's dangerous.

I just looked and Breakaway sails on Sundays. I assume they sailed since I don't see anything on CC indicating they didn't. They leave out of New York, headed to the Bahamas. Wouldn't they have sailed into this nonsense, too? I can't use AIS Vessel Tracking to save my life!!

 

[truck1]

Well, sure! That's what I meant, you just said it better. No captain worth his salt is going to go on a pleasure cruise with 6,000 people onboard if he thinks it's dangerous.

I just looked and Breakaway sails on Sundays. I assume they sailed since I don't see anything on CC indicating they didn't. They leave out of New York, headed to the Bahamas. Wouldn't they have sailed into this nonsense, too? I can't use AIS Vessel Tracking to save my life!!

Ill look. Give me a few minutes.

 

[ilovetexas]

It seems they are down in the Caribbean. Not sure if they were scheduled for that this week. I think they usually stop at Port Canaveral and the Bahamas.

Never mind. They are doing a 14 day so they were already gone when this hit.

 

[truck1]

She is off of Dominica, and she is heading home for NY. Working on her past course hx.