Race medal question....do all races give finisher medals to those who are swept?

[PRmamiDEdos]

So this thread moved on from the original topic but I'll weigh in anyway. At my own peril, perhaps! (But seriously, I enjoyed reading this discussion)

I believe the bottom line for Disney is financial profit, and secondly customer/guest service.

At the end of the day, Disney is organizing races to make a profit. Disney happily gives out the medals to the DNF folks as a means of guest recovery - keeping guests happy.

(As far as I know they don't explicitly advertise the practice -- before this thread, I never knew about it. So it's not like a selling point -- "sign up and you're guaranteed a medal" type of thing.)

They likely see zero gain by denying medals to DNF folks. The risk, on the other hand, is larger: if paying customers develop a negative view of Disney or the experience via being denied their medal, they will not return and will not spend more money.

Disney is not willing to risk that people are disenfranchised over the principle of finisher=medal. Giving medals to all who start/try is inexpensive, easy guest recovery.

Personally, I wouldn't want a medal if I hadn't completed the race. I wouldn't even wear the t-shirt. If I failed, I'd be motivated to try harder.

Other big races are not backed by the customer service-focused, vacation behemoth that is Disney. Other races don't have to live up to the magical experience standard the Disney (and runDisney) brand sets for itself. I think those other races can more easily deny medals to DNFs.

Races that follow Disney's lead by giving everyone a medal are perhaps thinking along similar lines, or trying to save time/volunteer work at the end of the race.

The Disney difference is obvious to me in every aspect of the race. As someone who has done a fair amount of running, and other big marathons, I still want to run Disney even though its finisher medal standards are less.

However, I honestly don't care who gets a medal and who doesn't. As long as they're not selling them at the Expo! Haha. I'm just so glad these Disney races exist for me to enjoy!!

I disagree. Disney has made many a decision to piss its guests off (ie: cutting PM EMH) and like the sheep we are, we keep coming back. These races sell out pretty quickly in my opinion, so I think there would still be plenty of people putting down a large amount if cash to run these races even if the ones who didn't receive a medal because they DNF'd no longer ran a Disney race. Even if they told their friends, who told their friends, etc., they would still sell these races out.

Jeff Galloway recommends going all the way out to 28 for time goal marathon training. I'm not doing that (not enough time left on the schedule). So, I'm doing 24 as a compromise. The reason he suggests the longer runs is to avoid the problem you described re digging deep for the last six miles. I think his philosophy is that if you've done the longer distance in training, the endurance has been built up already, therefore, less need to push the limits.

I agree that I'll definitely need to do a better pacing job during Disney. I am thinking about doing something similar to what you did . . . sticking fairly close to the 4:00 pace group and taking off only if I'm feeling good during the second half. I'm hopeful that the crowding won't be too big of an issue; I've run 20,000+ participant races before and haven't had a hard time navigating.

I want my first 26.2 to be at Disney so I'm going up to 25 miles and I'm praying Disney magic gets me to the finish line. LOL

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards. Please excuse the typos.

 

[sunshine girl]

I disagree. Disney has made many a decision to piss its guests off (ie: cutting PM EMH) and like the sheep we are, we keep coming back. These races sell out pretty quickly in my opinion, so I think there would still be plenty of people putting down a large amount if cash to run these races even if the ones who didn't receive a medal because they DNF'd no longer ran a Disney race. Even if they told their friends, who told their friends, etc., they would still sell these races out.

I don't think Disney makes decisions specifically to upset guests, I think Disney makes financial decisions. In the case of PM EMH, the financial upside -- the large amount of money saved -- outweighed the guest dissatisfaction downside. Big net gain of $$.

Disney has to prepare enough race medals for everyone. They can give medals to DNFs, potentially increasing guest/volunteer satisfaction with the event without cutting into their $$ bottom line at all. They avoid complaints and any chance of bad PR, for little or no extra cost.

People get so emotional at the end of a race. It's a memorable moment and I see this as Disney working to make it more positive for DNFs. Making a more magical memory for no extra cost. This can't hurt the brand impression, and can only help the bottom line in the future!

Regardless of my tangent here, the point is moot, as we are all going to train hard and work to get that medal! Good luck to all!

 

[VernRDH]

Wow, not what I was expecting when I came back to this thread

Re: local races- there are 2 HUGE running clubs in my area, plus multiple small "teams"/clubs. These are the SERIOUS runners. They having uniforms and everything. And they are well represented at EVERY local race. But while they are fast, they are usually really nice people. Yes some of them can be jerks, but hey thats everywhere. And many of them have advice and words of wisdom to share with others.

One of my favorite local races is a 10k in April for Masters runners only (so 40+). The three big local teams make up most of the competitors (ok so there are usually only about 120 runners but who's counting) These folks are awesome. And where do I fit in? Running with the 80 year old WAAAAAAY at the back of the pack. Guess what? Those fast and 50 year olds tell me "good job" when they pass me on the out and back course. Am I intimidated? No, because I am out there doing MY thing. Trust me, you may think others are looking at you and discounting you, but they really aren't. And if they are, well they are not nice people any way and not worth your time.

If Disney is where you want to do your first race, so be it. But I still say its a "finishers" medal. Just my opinion.

 

[FFigawi]

Thanks for the suggestion. I actually tried to do that during my 20-miler long run on Sunday, which is why I did it in 3 hours (9:00/m pace). I'm a little concerned about pushing any harder than that during the long runs. Jeff Galloway has put the fear of God into me about getting injured by running too fast on the training runs. According to him, I should be running them at no faster than 10:30/m. I'm not really sure what I should do. I'm planning on doing a 22 and a 24 before Disney. My inclination is to try to do them at 9:00 to 9:15, but I'm concerned about injury. Any thoughts?

My own personal belief is that Galloway's philosophy and training plans are geared towards getting people across the finish line upright and in one piece. They're not generally focused on the higher intensity training that is required to get someone to really bust their old PR and start turning in times of sub-4 or sub-330, etc. Not to say it can't happen that way, but in my experience, the best way to run a fast marathon is to run fast in training. For my last marathon, nearly all of my long runs were done as intervals of some sort. For example, an 18-mile run with 2 miles at an easy pace (9:30 or so), 11 miles at MP+10 (8:55 to 9:00), and the last 5 miles at MP (8:45-8:50) was my last long run done two weeks before race day. The other ones, the 20s and the other 16s and 18s, were all similar, with intervals like 3 easy, 3 at HMP (8:30-ish), 3 easy, 3 at HMP, etc. Another one was start easy and drop the pace 5 seconds per mile after the first 3 miles, so you end up running the last few miles at or faster than marathon pace. Of course, you also need to be doing speed work of some sort during the week too - fartleks, ladders, track intervals, tempo intervals, etc.

 

[BikeFan]

My own personal belief is that Galloway's philosophy and training plans are geared towards getting people across the finish line upright and in one piece. They're not generally focused on the higher intensity training that is required to get someone to really bust their old PR and start turning in times of sub-4 or sub-330, etc. Not to say it can't happen that way, but in my experience, the best way to run a fast marathon is to run fast in training. For my last marathon, nearly all of my long runs were done as intervals of some sort. For example, an 18-mile run with 2 miles at an easy pace (9:30 or so), 11 miles at MP+10 (8:55 to 9:00), and the last 5 miles at MP (8:45-8:50) was my last long run done two weeks before race day. The other ones, the 20s and the other 16s and 18s, were all similar, with intervals like 3 easy, 3 at HMP (8:30-ish), 3 easy, 3 at HMP, etc. Another one was start easy and drop the pace 5 seconds per mile after the first 3 miles, so you end up running the last few miles at or faster than marathon pace. Of course, you also need to be doing speed work of some sort during the week too - fartleks, ladders, track intervals, tempo intervals, etc.

I'd agree with this.

 

[cobbler]

But it isn't a training hard medal or a starter's medal. It is a finisher's medal. I'm sure a lot of people start college and study very hard, even harder than some at the top of the class, but they drop out and don't finish. These people don't get degrees because they studied hard.

I have the utmost respect for anyone that trains to do a race and goes out with the best of intentions. If you don't finish you use it as motivation the next year or at a later race somewhere else to earn you medal. Not finishing a race will never make me look down on someone but taking a medal you didn't earn in the only way you can...by finishing...yeah, I have no respect for those people.

This is exactly it!! Our society has evolved (& not for the better) to this point. It's like field day at my son's elementary school. 2 years ago they stopped handing out ribbons for 1st - 4th places at the events because parents complained that their kid was feeling left out. So now they hand everyone 1 generic participant ribbon.

Now the kids aren't as motivated because they get the same as everyone else. Sure they have fun & still try to win but their work goes unrewarded. Failure creates (in some people) greatness because you learn from it and do better next time. That's why you read many around here say that the bad training runs are just as important as the good ones.

Our society is too coddling. To quote from The Incredibles.. "Because when everyone is super, then no one is."

 

[cewait]

My own personal belief is that Galloway's philosophy and training plans are geared towards getting people across the finish line upright and in one piece. They're not generally focused on the higher intensity training that is required to get someone to really bust their old PR and start turning in times of sub-4 or sub-330, etc. Not to say it can't happen that way, but in my experience, the best way to run a fast marathon is to run fast in training. For my last marathon, nearly all of my long runs were done as intervals of some sort. For example, an 18-mile run with 2 miles at an easy pace (9:30 or so), 11 miles at MP+10 (8:55 to 9:00), and the last 5 miles at MP (8:45-8:50) was my last long run done two weeks before race day. The other ones, the 20s and the other 16s and 18s, were all similar, with intervals like 3 easy, 3 at HMP (8:30-ish), 3 easy, 3 at HMP, etc. Another one was start easy and drop the pace 5 seconds per mile after the first 3 miles, so you end up running the last few miles at or faster than marathon pace. Of course, you also need to be doing speed work of some sort during the week too - fartleks, ladders, track intervals, tempo intervals, etc.

I'd agree with this.

I agree.

Even his "run for time" plan is really a maintenance of current ability plan in my eyes. While he gets thousands of runners across the finish line annually, his plan relies too much on the long run and leaves the mid week run to the runner's imagination. Most simply head out the door to run 45 minutes with no purpose. My experience demonstrates this well. I was a 14-15 mm runner using either the Galloway or USAFit plans. I was destined to remain there until I decided that I needed to learn the reasoning behind training.

Reading this, do not panic and bail to another plan. These plans will get you to the finish line. Just between January and the next race long take it upon yourself to learn about other plans. Take the spring season to do speed work. Learn about fueling and hydration. Work to wean oneself from the run/walk over a 5k race (this will allow you to set your own run/walk ratio in future races that fit your conditioning better) . Work on creating a better injury-proof body through strength training.

It's very doable and possible for anyone on this forum to make huge leaps in performance between the 2013 and 2014 events.

 

[IMGONNABE40!]

It's very doable and possible for anyone on this forum to make huge leaps in performance between the 2013 and 2014 events.

I thought that last bit was worth repeating!

I just followed a Galloway plan to get ready for the Wine and Dine (PR). I did add an extra workout per week as I thought just 2 during the week was not enough. I plan to do the Tinkerbelle in Jan. and the Princess in Feb. What I have decided to do is the Galloway speed program, again adding in a day during the week. What other plan would you suggest since I am now looking at working on speed?

 

[DrMomof3]

I've been doing Galloway e-coaching since June. One of the biggest changes in my training is that he has me doing specific work-outs during my mid-week runs whereas previously I had just used my imagination (as Coach said!). I do half mile repeats at 30 sec faster than race pace on Tuesdays and hill repeats on Thursday. I ran an 8 min PR on my most recent half marathon so it did help me get faster. Obviously I'm not looking at a sub-4 hour marathon any time soon (or likely in my lifetime!) so I can't comment on that.

Amanda

 

[Rupert B Puppenstein]

I follow Galloway's intervals from time to time, but I follow Hal Higdon's training plan because they are based on distance and not time. I like the feeling of training at a certain distance so much better than just doing a 30 minute run. That is just me.

 

[FFigawi]

I follow Galloway's intervals from time to time, but I follow Hal Higdon's training plan because they are based on distance and not time. I like the feeling of training at a certain distance so much better than just doing a 30 minute run. That is just me.

The real key is to make sure that your distance run or your time run is not just a run. Your workouts should be done with purpose and not just a 4-mile run or a 30-minute run. There should be some thought and intent behind them, whether it's to run at a certain pace (tempo run), do some fast intervals along the way (ladders and fartleks), or to increase strength by running hills. I know from my own prior experience that just running X number of miles at any old pace a few times a week and then a long run on the weekend doesn't make you any faster. It keeps your endurance up so you can finish, but it prevents your body from learning how to run faster and run faster longer.

 

[Rupert B Puppenstein]

The real key is to make sure that your distance run or your time run is not just a run. Your workouts should be done with purpose and not just a 4-mile run or a 30-minute run. There should be some thought and intent behind them, whether it's to run at a certain pace (tempo run), do some fast intervals along the way (ladders and fartleks), or to increase strength by running hills. I know from my own prior experience that just running X number of miles at any old pace a few times a week and then a long run on the weekend doesn't make you any faster. It keeps your endurance up so you can finish, but it prevents your body from learning how to run faster and run faster longer.

That makes sense. Thanks for the tips.

 

[Ariel484]

I agree.

Even his "run for time" plan is really a maintenance of current ability plan in my eyes. While he gets thousands of runners across the finish line annually, his plan relies too much on the long run and leaves the mid week run to the runner's imagination. Most simply head out the door to run 45 minutes with no purpose. My experience demonstrates this well. I was a 14-15 mm runner using either the Galloway or USAFit plans. I was destined to remain there until I decided that I needed to learn the reasoning behind training.

Reading this, do not panic and bail to another plan. These plans will get you to the finish line. Just between January and the next race long take it upon yourself to learn about other plans. Take the spring season to do speed work. Learn about fueling and hydration. Work to wean oneself from the run/walk over a 5k race (this will allow you to set your own run/walk ratio in future races that fit your conditioning better) . Work on creating a better injury-proof body through strength training.

It's very doable and possible for anyone on this forum to make huge leaps in performance between the 2013 and 2014 events.

So agree with this. I used a Galloway plan for my first half (the 2011 Princess Half) and while it got me across the finish line I found toward the end of training that I didn't like the two 30-45 minute runs that seemed like they had no purpose. And strength training has helped me more than I thought it ever would.

I thought that last bit was worth repeating!

I just followed a Galloway plan to get ready for the Wine and Dine (PR). I did add an extra workout per week as I thought just 2 during the week was not enough. I plan to do the Tinkerbelle in Jan. and the Princess in Feb. What I have decided to do is the Galloway speed program, again adding in a day during the week. What other plan would you suggest since I am now looking at working on speed?

I follow Galloway's intervals from time to time, but I follow Hal Higdon's training plan because they are based on distance and not time. I like the feeling of training at a certain distance so much better than just doing a 30 minute run. That is just me.

Another vote for Higdon's plans. I took a couple of his plans and sort of modified/combined them to create one that works for me. Specifically I take the Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday runs from his advanced plan and the long runs from his intermediate plan (and I juggle the days around so that it fits my schedule). So one day of speedwork, one tempo run, one goal pace run and one long run per week. This way I feel like every run has a purpose. I think 4 days per week of running + 2 days of strength training is my sweet spot, so this works for me.

 

[Quiksilvr]

Thanks for all of the responses; I appreciate the recommendations.

Finishing the marathon is not my concern. I've finished two this year at a sub-4:30 pace. It's getting to below 4:00 that I've found troublesome. As I mentioned in one of my previous comments, I had some injury issues that I think prevented me from hitting it a few weeks ago. I came in at 4:10, which is fine, but I'd like to chop off that last 10 minutes.

I haven't followed a Galloway plan religiously since I first started running back in 2009. Since then, I've used some sort of modified plan that is essentially a combination of his ideas and Higdon's. I do respect Jeff's opinions on injury prevention though, which is sort of what prompted this (extremely tangential) line of the thread. I've been reluctant to push too hard during the long runs.

My mid-week runs are fine. I usually do high-intensity intervals two days, mile repeats another, and I always finish the week with a no-walk-break 10K just to see how I'm doing (I'm at about 49:00). It's running close to marathon pace during the long run that has had me concerned. I did 20 miles last Sunday at 9:00/m, and felt pretty good after, so I think I'm coming around to the idea of running the long runs faster than Galloway recommends.

Anyway, thanks again for all of the comments.

 

[lerxst]

To answer the OP question as it applied to WaD tonight, on the way to the car today at about the 3 hour point of the race I saw a sweeper bus offload about 20 athletes into a totally separate finish area in another parking lot. They had the same powerade water food boxes set up, and all were given (and accepted) medals. Based on the timing I'm guessing they made it half way or less? Some were actually laughing about how they didn't have to finish to get the medal and would now have more energy and time for the after party. Different strokes for different folks...

That is a shame. I could never in good conscience even think of accepting a medal if I dont finish. I refuse to even wear a race shirt until I cross the finish line.

Matter of fact, I bought the W&D "I did it" shirt at the expo, and felt guilty having not yet finished --let alone started-- the race. But had I not finished, I would have donated it to the first person I saw that had finished.

 

[cewait]

That is a shame. I could never in good conscience even think of accepting a medal if I dont finish. I refuse to even wear a race shirt until I cross the finish line.

Matter of fact, I bought the W&D "I did it" shirt at the expo, and felt guilty having not yet finished --let alone started-- the race. But had I not finished, I would have donated it to the first person I saw that had finished.

I actually have an issue with the "I Did It" shirts... but not as much as the medal. I really feel like they should be only offered only at the family reunion area or in a designated outlet once a runner has completed the race. Then the runner should have to provide their bib number to purchase that or any other finisher gear. OK no stones as I understand that this is not how Disney or RNR handle finisher gear. So since the race offers a limited number of I Did It stuff, then I fully understand the need to lock in the purchase pre-race. If one does not, then the gear is sold out be the time one actually did it.

I would not wear the gear until I actually did it, and if I failed, I would return the shirt to the ESPN store for credit. Simply bad mojo to wear a shirt noting that you did something you really did not do. Likewise, I would not wear a race shirt for which I did not start or volunteer.

 

[MightyDuck001]

If my experience at Wine and Dine has taught me anything it's this:
The feelings of self-respect, discipline, and physical and emotional health I get from running on a regular basis far outweighs the metal on a ribbon I get from races as a reward. So we're all getting something intangible, whether we finish or not.
Now the alcohol at the end of the race, there was a reward that far outweighed anything else...

 

[Rupert B Puppenstein]

I actually have an issue with the "I Did It" shirts... but not as much as the medal. I really feel like they should be only offered only at the family reunion area or in a designated outlet once a runner has completed the race. Then the runner should have to provide their bib number to purchase that or any other finisher gear. OK no stones as I understand that this is not how Disney or RNR handle finisher gear. So since the race offers a limited number of I Did It stuff, then I fully understand the need to lock in the purchase pre-race. If one does not, then the gear is sold out be the time one actually did it.

I would not wear the gear until I actually did it, and if I failed, I would return the shirt to the ESPN store for credit. Simply bad mojo to wear a shirt noting that you did something you really did not do. Likewise, I would not wear a race shirt for which I did not start or volunteer.

I agree. I have never bought any of the "I did it!" merchandise at the Expo for that very reason. I was rushing past the area, but I am 99% positive that at the Marine Corps Marathon the finishers merchandise was after the finish line. I didn't buy any because I didn't have enough time, but I think like a lot of races, Disney should have their merchandise for sale at the end of the race. Think about those great endorphins and how people may be in a better mood to buy, buy, buy! So, for now, I have no finishers shirts. Just the ones they give you when you pick up your bib.

 

[FFigawi]

I like the races (Dublin and Houston being two that I've run recently) that give out finisher shirts. No need to buy a separate "I did it" shirt because there's no other way to get a finisher shirt than to finish.

 

[hungrygreenhippo]

This thread has gone in so many directions!

In regards to improving marathon times, what worked for me was increasing mileage. During my 12 weeks of training, I ran six 20+ mile long runs, two 18 mile long runs, and a bunch of 13-ish mile runs during the week. I did very little speedwork/tempo runs. I was able to bring my PR down from 3:54:xx down to 3:41:26. Not saying this is necessarily the right way to go, but just sharing what worked for me.

---

I'm with those that think finisher's medals should only be for finishers and I don't like Disney's practice of giving medals to everyone. I definitely don't think people should be registering for a Disney race just to get the medal with no intent of finishing, but that's got to be an extremely small minority of people. I want to believe that most people who are swept did try their best and had no idea that Disney would even offer them a medal for not finishing. Someone in the thread mentioned that the volunteer was pretty adament about giving out the medal and at that point I really can't fault a swept person for accepting it.

I think it's interesting that the general vibe of this thread seems to focus on the participant being in the wrong for accepting the medal rather than Disney for giving out the medals. Especially if those being swept are newer runners, they may not even know the proper "etiquette". I know this isn't exactly the same thing, but I still remember not really knowing what to expect at my first 5k (local race). I had to look around and follow other people's lead for how to pin on my race bib. If Disney, or rather a volunteer on behalf of Disney, is handing out the medal, the person who was swept might think this is normal.

---

The original question asked whether there are other races that give out medals to everyone. I'm guessing the blog post that sparked the question is written by now, but I still wanted to share about a local race I stumbled upon. The official name and logo on the website call the race the "Run Like A Girl Half Marathon", but on the About page it then goes on to say:

"Run Like a Girl is a non-competitive event for those who just want to get out and have some fun. Never participated in a half-marathon before? No problem! You can go as far as you feel comfortable. There’s no pressure to complete the entire 13.1 miles.

Worried about the pace? Please understand that we use the word “run” loosely. Go as slow or as fast as you’d like. Most of our participants walk. And if you’re concerned you won’t make the 4 hour cut off, get an early start or turn around early!

Pick up your shirt & bib at our carb-loading dinner the night before, or the morning of the race. And just for crossing the finish line you’ll earn a beautiful finisher’s medal hand-made by a local artist."

There's a place for fun events and I'm glad they state up front that it's non-competitive. But it really irritates me that they call it a half marathon but then go on to say that you don't even have to finish the distance. I don't know this for sure, but if they're encouraging people to turn around early (it's an out and back course), then I'm guessing everyone who crosses the finish line whether they did the full 13.1 or just a couple miles gets a medal. Here I put all the responsibility on the race organizers. I feel as though they're diminishing the effort it takes to finish 13.1 miles by calling it a half marathon but then saying you can do any distance you want. Because of this stance, I wouldn't do the race even if it was free. Luckily there are plenty of other races in the area to choose from.