Public School State Mandated Tests

[luvsJack]

Our elementary teachers do not award kids after the test, since we get the results in the summer they really can't anyway. However they do have a big breakfast the morning of the test, that all students in the class share in.
It gives the kids a chance to relax and eat a good meal before they have to take it. I think its their way of acknowledging the work (and stress) the kids have dealt with in the weeks leading up to the test.

I like that idea! And its something for all the kids.

 

[Aneille]

You know, I'm not sure how I feel about this. And this is coming from a mom of a child who is advanced...I'm talking 280/280 scores. Maybe its because he doesn't really work at it, he is just naturally a very smart/academic minded kid. But I am not sure rewarding the kids for advanced scores is a good idea.

our school tries to emphasize that these tests are testing the teachers, not the kids, to try to keep the kids from stressing about the tests. giving rewards like this would backfire.

I need to think more on this one. Because even as I am typing, I am thinking to myself that yes, I do believe kids who work hard and get good grades deserve recognition...honor/high honor roles and such. I think those things give kids something to strive for. I think its rewarding the standardized test that is bugging me.

eta, to answer the original question, yes I share my son's scores with him (and will with the twins when they take them). never occurred to me not to.

I wanted to add something else for you to think about.

Kids that are gifted athletes or musicians or artists don't always work as hard as other kids either but they are often recognized for their results.

I am not going to debate whether, we as a society should award based on effort or results, but if a young track star gifted with great speed can be rewarded, why can't a young student gifted with a higher IQ or great work habits be rewarded as well?

Just something to think about.

And to answer the OP: Yes my kids see their MCAS scores. And the school does sort of recognize them for good scores. The principal brings groups of kids down to his office to congratulate them on perfect scores or scores that were the highest in the school.

Also last year an online paper printed out the names of every student in our town that scored perfect on their MCAS (3rd grade through 12th).

 

[MrsDuck]

My parents always shared my scores with me.

 

[ccgirl]

I just want to add that I see parents posting comments such as my child is an honor roll student but did bad on the test. Depending on the test, it may be compared to other districts, states etc. They very well may be an A student but that does not mean they are learning everything. For example, my DD is an A student and my neighbor's DD is an A student. One child goes to private and one child goes to public. They both took the IOWA test. One did much better than the other. After having discussion with the other parent who is also my friend, it turned out one school was way behind the other in teaching what they should. So, it can also point out areas for improvement for the schools because we all know not all schools are equal. Just my two cents, YMMV.

 

[mamamary]

I always tell my kids what their test results are.

 

[indimom]

We've always discussed the scores, just like we discuss grades on tests and assignments.
I look at it like any opportunity to evaluate how they are doing, what areas they are strong in, what areas they are weak in.
They don't make or break us, it's just more information.

 

[Poohforyou]

We've always told our daughter that the NJASK tests are to check whether our teachers are doing a good job not how good a student she is. That being said she's always scored in the top level and we've always shared these scores with her. Perhaps if she didn't do well we'd rethink how we handle this.

 

[Pigeon]

The kids with the high IQs are recognized and rewarded all the time. The mediocre students who study their butts off to get average grades are almost never recognized.

For things like music and athletic achievement, it is nearly always the case that the kids who do well are kids who put in a ton of practice, work with specialized tutors and coaches and generally bust their butts. They may have some level of natural ability, but natural ability alone doesn't account for the difference. See, for example, Outliers, by Malcolm Gladwell.

 

[okeydokey]

The kids with the high IQs are recognized and rewarded all the time. The mediocre students who study their butts off to get average grades are almost never recognized.

For things like music and athletic achievement, it is nearly always the case that the kids who do well are kids who put in a ton of practice, work with specialized tutors and coaches and generally bust their butts. They may have some level of natural ability, but natural ability alone doesn't account for the difference. See, for example, Outliers, by Malcolm Gladwell.

Our school gives an award for most effort and most improved as well.

Smart kids who are recognized also put in a lot of effort and should be recognized. Once the kids here get to middle school, the awards are for the one kid with the highest average in each class. These awards have meant a lot to my kids, because their hard work is being recognized and I appreciate that. It's nice that an academic achievement is also being seen and not just the athletic ones.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Yes. I don't see why we wouldn't. They don't get rewards or anything though, either from us or the school.

 

[JoiseyMom]

Of course we do. Why wouldn't we. To repeat other posters, they took the tests, why wouldn't I share their grades/scores with them??

 

[Aneille]

The kids with the high IQs are recognized and rewarded all the time. The mediocre students who study their butts off to get average grades are almost never recognized.

For things like music and athletic achievement, it is nearly always the case that the kids who do well are kids who put in a ton of practice, work with specialized tutors and coaches and generally bust their butts. They may have some level of natural ability, but natural ability alone doesn't account for the difference. See, for example, Outliers, by Malcolm Gladwell.

I'm confused about your second statement about kids doing well at music and athletic achievement work hard but those with high IQ's don't.

I am sure great athletes work hard but lots of kids win races, score lots of goals and do nothing but be themselves and show up for the game. Especially at the recreational level but even as you move up the ranks, there is always someone more athletic that makes it all look so easy.

Children with high IQ's, in a regular classroom will be recognized over the children with average IQ's just like the more athletic child on the soccer field.

Those same high IQ kids when placed in a more rigorous school environment will then have to put more effort in to achieve the same rewards. The same as the athlete as they move forward in their sport.

Life isn't fair and there is always someone with more natural talent or that have more things fall in place (as Gladwell wrote about), so it’s my job to teach my kids to control what they can and set achievable goals.

To feel good about themselves even if they are not recognized by others.

So I don't mind if kids get recognized for doing well in school or in sports or anything else even if they didn't put in as much effort as my child.

 

[luvsJack]

I'm confused about your second statement about kids doing well at music and athletic achievement work hard but those with high IQ's don't.

I am sure great athletes work hard but lots of kids win races, score lots of goals and do nothing but be themselves and show up for the game. Especially at the recreational level but even as you move up the ranks, there is always someone more athletic that makes it all look so easy.

Children with high IQ's, in a regular classroom will be recognized over the children with average IQ's just like the more athletic child on the soccer field.

Those same high IQ kids when placed in a more rigorous school environment will then have to put more effort in to achieve the same rewards. The same as the athlete as they move forward in their sport.

Life isn't fair and there is always someone with more natural talent or that have more things fall in place (as Gladwell wrote about), so it’s my job to teach my kids to control what they can and set achievable goals.

To feel good about themselves even if they are not recognized by others.

So I don't mind if kids get recognized for doing well in school or in sports or anything else even if they didn't put in as much effort as my child.

But when kids with high IQ's are constantly recognized for scoring high on a standardized test, and the student with a lower IQ is constantly made to feel inadequate, there is a problem. The student with the lower scores cannot always just work harder.

IME, it can be different in sports. DS was one of the most naturally talented baseball players that most of his coaches had seen (their words not mine). He never once just showed up for a game. He practiced for hours. He practiced at the formal practices and when he didn't have practice he was outside doing something to improve his skills. Playing at the level he played was hard work even with his natural talent. His brother, otoh, was not a natural athlete but does have very high IQ. Nothing older DS did was going to make him score higher on a standardized test than his brother. Older DS studied harder and worked harder through hs. He made an 18 on the ACT. Younger ds played through hs and made a 29.

When the same dozen or so kids are going bowling every year from 3rd grade and up because of their high scores, obviously its not doing anything to encourage higher scores. If it was, there would be some kids that "finally made it" and got to go on the trip.

I am not taking away from the kids who do work hard in school. Smart kids do work hard. But are state test really supposed to seperate the "smart kids" from the not as smart kids? Besides so much of a standardized test isn't about working hard or studying, its just about test taking.

 

[Aneille]

We will just have to disagree and that is okay. Or I am misunderstanding.

Unless a school is actually telling the student with the lower score that they are inadequate, there isn't a problem in my mind. Although a bowling party seems over the top. That does seem a bit unfair and improvement of scores would probably be a better indicator for who should go on the trip.

Its my job to teach my kids to try to reach their fullest potential and not worry about others successes, but concentrate on their own. We all have limits to how high we can go in anything. I teach my kids to set their own goals that they can achieve and not worry about the kid next door or their sibling. The goals for the poorer student wouldn't be the same for the better student.

Your son that was good at baseball could have done nothing and still spent the first few years of baseball with lots of recognition. You said yourself he had so much natural talent.

A kid that is small for his age, uncoordinated, slow, not focused enough, would not make the all star team, not be able to hit the ball, not picked for the travel team, not recognized or rewarded.

It wouldn't matter if he played the same amount as your son working at baseball if he wasn't going to ever get fast enough, tall enough or strong enough. He could get better but he wouldn't beat out your son.

Yet it would be okay if your baseball son got awards and the other kid was left watching from the sidelines.

Why is it okay for the athlete with natural talent to be recognized and not the student?

You seem to have a double standard for high IQ and sports. Or maybe I am just misunderstanding and there is more to the bowling story.

You are born with certain talents and it is what it is. You can nurture them and challenge them and get better and be more sucessful but life never starts out at a level playing field in anything and it never ends even either.

Our school doesn't do anything to recognize students really. Just pulled into the office and congratulated.

 

[Aneille]

Smart kids do work hard. But are state test really supposed to seperate the "smart kids" from the not as smart kids? Besides so much of a standardized test isn't about working hard or studying, its just about test taking.

I clipped your response because I wanted to respond this last part and forgot to in my large rambling response above

It is about test taking but lots of kids actually study for these tests to improve their scores, like your son did in baseball. They just start out with more natural talent as your son did in baseball.

And the tests and grades should seperate the "smart" kids so they are challenged and pushed like your son did when he moved up the ranks in baseball. You said he needed to work hard "to play at the level he was playing at". Its the same for the kids with high IQ's. Your son is better off learning how to work hard at baseball, its the same for the "smarter" kids. Some will want to work hard and try to be the best at the Ivy school or the AP or Honors class.

The effort you put in gets your the rewards in life. If everything is easy, you don't learn to work.

 

[Pigeon]

I don't have a problem with having academic awards in general, but the idea of treating just the kids who do well on a particular standardized test does rub me the wrong way. There is already far, far too much emphasis placed on these tests. Kids who are highly successful academically are already rewarded and recognized already in so many ways.

With the academic awards at our schools, they are given for a variety of types of accomplishments. There are awards for high averages overall, in various subjects, and awards for improvement and effort. Classes are tracked, so it is possible for a kid who isn't at the top of the IQ charts to get an academic award. The awards are based on a variety of assessments and include classwork and homework and are a much better reflection of overall accomplishment than a single politicized, highly manipulated state test.

I've got one kid who is both an accomplished violinist and a top scholar. She's smart, does the work that's expected of her, and puts in a reasonable amount of effort. But she doesn't put in any more time or effort than her less academically gifted peers.

Music is a different story. Yes, she's got a lot natural talent. But she works her butt off at it, practicing for hours, studying with a tutor and passing up a whole lot of social activity to be in a regional orchestra and play in a quartet. I suspect the same is true of most kids who are top athletes, artists, etc.

 

[GaSleepingBeautyFan]

Yes, I tell my kids how they did. But I do it individually just like when we discuss report card grades.

I figure they do the work so they should know how they did on the test.

 

[luvsJack]

We will just have to disagree and that is okay. Or I am misunderstanding.

Unless a school is actually telling the student with the lower score that they are inadequate, there isn't a problem in my mind. Although a bowling party seems over the top. That does seem a bit unfair and improvement of scores would probably be a better indicator for who should go on the trip.

Its my job to teach my kids to try to reach their fullest potential and not worry about others successes, but concentrate on their own. We all have limits to how high we can go in anything. I teach my kids to set their own goals that they can achieve and not worry about the kid next door or their sibling. The goals for the poorer student wouldn't be the same for the better student.

Your son that was good at baseball could have done nothing and still spent the first few years of baseball with lots of recognition. You said yourself he had so much natural talent.

A kid that is small for his age, uncoordinated, slow, not focused enough, would not make the all star team, not be able to hit the ball, not picked for the travel team, not recognized or rewarded.

It wouldn't matter if he played the same amount as your son working at baseball if he wasn't going to ever get fast enough, tall enough or strong enough. He could get better but he wouldn't beat out your son.

Yet it would be okay if your baseball son got awards and the other kid was left watching from the sidelines.

Why is it okay for the athlete with natural talent to be recognized and not the student?

You seem to have a double standard for high IQ and sports. Or maybe I am just misunderstanding and there is more to the bowling story.

You are born with certain talents and it is what it is. You can nurture them and challenge them and get better and be more sucessful but life never starts out at a level playing field in anything and it never ends even either.

Our school doesn't do anything to recognize students really. Just pulled into the office and congratulated.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have an issue in the world with the kids who work hard in school being recognized just as much or more than a star athlete. Actually, I think they deserver more recognition.

I think the difference, at least at the school dd just left, is that the kids that get straight A's or A's and B's are not recognized. They get no reward. But the kid that makes Advanced and Profiecient on the MCT, gets to go on a special trip and have a pizza party, etc. I, personally, think the priority is wrong.

And truthfully, dd did go on the special trip and had the pizza party because of MCT scores. Some years she would not have gone had it been dependent on her grades.

 

[sam_gordon]

With the academic awards at our schools, they are given for a variety of types of accomplishments. There are awards for high averages overall, in various subjects, and awards for improvement and effort. Classes are tracked, so it is possible for a kid who isn't at the top of the IQ charts to get an academic award. The awards are based on a variety of assessments and include classwork and homework and are a much better reflection of overall accomplishment than a single politicized, highly manipulated state test.

Sorry, Pigeon, don't mean to pick on you, but you prompted a thought... isn't the above the equivalent to the "everyone gets a trophy" process that many decry in sports?

Does it make someone feel better to get an award? Possibly. But aren't you watering down the rewards by handing out so many of them?

As someone mentioned above, there will always be someone better than you (ok, with rare exception). Why can't kids do their best to make THEMSELVES feel good? "Oh Timmy, you tried hard, here's a ribbon" doesn't cut it for me. We've got a lot of adults that want things handed to them. They don't want to push themselves. Is that what we're encouraging kids to be like when they get older?

 

[luvsJack]

I clipped your response because I wanted to respond this last part and forgot to in my large rambling response above

It is about test taking but lots of kids actually study for these tests to improve their scores, like your son did in baseball. They just start out with more natural talent as your son did in baseball.

And the tests and grades should seperate the "smart" kids so they are challenged and pushed like your son did when he moved up the ranks in baseball. You said he needed to work hard "to play at the level he was playing at". Its the same for the kids with high IQ's. Your son is better off learning how to work hard at baseball, its the same for the "smarter" kids. Some will want to work hard and try to be the best at the Ivy school or the AP or Honors class.

The effort you put in gets your the rewards in life. If everything is easy, you don't learn to work.

I get what your saying and would agree with you if our state tests worked that way. They don't.

Our kids do not study for them. There is no study guide. They take these ridiculous "practice tests" throughout the year that do not have the same material on them. They are tested to death. By the time the MCT comes around they are sick of taking tests.

Some kids do well, some do not. But, at least here, it has nothing to do with anything but having the ability to test well. If a kid has test anxity or doesn't feel well on test day, they are not going to do well.