OT: To go to K or not to go to K? That is the question!

[jameyh]

Not entirely the same situation, but our son did a private kindergarten from 8-12 when he was 5 and then did public k when he was 6. Our decision was based on drs & teachers recommendations because of our sons ADHD. In my opinion doing k5 twice was/is going to be less traumatic than if he had done public k5 & then had to do it again while his friends moved on, or heaven forbid it happened in the 3rd + grade.our son is almost 7 and will be In the first grade this year.

 

[Alexle2007]

Here's another article on the impact of delaying kindergarten- http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/opinion/sunday/dont-delay-your-kindergartners-start.html?_r=2&. The article also helped me know that I had made the correct decision to move my son ahead to 1st grade last year when his principal suggested it. I know when I was making the decision to move him or not, I did lots of research of the pros and cons but the real decision was my son's since he would be the one impacted for the rest of his life. He chose to go to 1st grade and did outstanding. His birthday isn't until March so he will always be the youngest in his class..

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

Here's another article on the impact of delaying kindergarten- http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/opinion/sunday/dont-delay-your-kindergartners-start.html?_r=2&. The article also helped me know that I had made the correct decision to move my son ahead to 1st grade last year when his principal suggested it. I know when I was making the decision to move him or not, I did lots of research of the pros and cons but the real decision was my son's since he would be the one impacted for the rest of his life. He chose to go to 1st grade and did outstanding. His birthday isn't until March so he will always be the youngest in his class..

Wow, that is an interesting article. Thank you for posting!

 

[SEA333]

What you are not taking into account is that when states change the cutoff, they are also changing the curriculum and expectations to line up with that cutoff. Programs are designed so that the overwhelming majority of children who meet the cutoff age will be able to be successful. The problem comes when parents begin redshirting and artificially inflate the age range in the classroom. The state says he is eligible because their program s designed so that this age child can be successful. A state that says he needs to wait will have a program designed for older 5s.

Good point, except I do take this into consideration, and I have witnessed it firsthand as well as having done Masters Level research on educational theory for my psychology degree. Michigan has almost the "youngest" age requirement of all states with a cutoff date of December 1, yet the expectations in my kids's schools (where 2 of my three started in 3-year old preschool in the district's preschool program and went on to K and older grades before we moved to Illinois when DS1 was in 5th grade) were that K children would be mature enough to dive right into reading and writing the first week of school. They *expected* Kindergartners to know and understand the rules and expectations of how to behave. Honestly, there was no difference, SOCIALLY, between the expectations of the Kindergartners in Michigan and the "older" Kindergartners here in Illinois when my youngest went to K 2 years ago.

Academically, I think that the Illinois K is harder - I will say that. However, I do not know if it is because the school district takes into consideration the fact that the kids are older, or if they are really, really proud of their high standards and ranking within the state and feel they need to prove themselves. Probably both, to be honest, but the point is that, especially with the advent of common core curriculums, more and more of the individual district/states decisions about what to teach and when are being taken away, so even *if* the district/state is accomodating a younger vs. older K class, in the very near future, it will be too similar to have to be accounted for.

I absolutely *do* agree with you that the practice of holding kids back has led to artificial inflating of age groups in the classroom. Like I said, two of my three children suffer the consequences of this. I agree that if the majority of 5 year olds are not ready for Kindergarten, states should start looking to push back the cutoff date to accomodate this, so that even though they are older when they start, they will ALL be old 5's and 6. I hate that my son is in 8th grade this year with 15 year olds and my DD is in 4th with girls who will be turning 11.

But, at this point, until the states catch up with reality, kids born in the fall (or the summer, in my state's case) should not be peanalized.

 

[amym2]

We have friends who moved here from MI mid-year and their DD who has a Sept. birthday went into 1st gr even though in IN the cut-off is Aug. 1. She really struggled, and her mom said the expectations here in IN are much higher than in MI. After 2nd gr they moved and switched schools and she repeated 2nd gr and is doing so much better. I am curious with Common Core being implemented, if states will adjust their cut-off dates.

 

[letsgoreds]

We have friends who moved here from MI mid-year and their DD who has a Sept. birthday went into 1st gr even though in IN the cut-off is Aug. 1. She really struggled, and her mom said the expectations here in IN are much higher than in MI. After 2nd gr they moved and switched schools and she repeated 2nd gr and is doing so much better. I am curious with Common Core being implemented, if states will adjust their cut-off dates.

That is a very good point. With the playing field being leveled, so to speak, with Common Core, it would only make sense that the cut-off should be standardized as well. It might take a couple of years (or more) as I am sure schools are implementing at different rates.

 

[3doodlebugsmom]

In the end cut off dates really don't matter because no matter what month you use as a cut off, someone is going to be the youngest. Case in point. A few years ago RI had a cut off date of Dec 30. So a lot of people chose to "red shirt" or "give the gift of time" to their Oct, Nov, and Dec. babies, (especially boys), leaving boys born in July, August, and September as the youngest in the class.
DD has an October birthday- she was 4 going into school- In second grade there were 5 kids in her class with October birthdays, but 3 of them (2 boys, one girl) turned 8 while DD and another boy turned 7. Were they really peers? Who knows, but they were all in the same class.

It got a bit dicey at Christmas time in third grade when she had a boy who was 9 and a few months away from turning 10 telling all the kids in the class that Santa wasn't real. No I was not ready for my just turned 8 year old to give up the magic of Christmas, but that is what can happen when ages in classrooms become inflated.


Now the cutoff is Sept. 1. So what happens? Kids (especially boys) with June, July and August birthdays are being kept out. So that made my DS whose birthday is the end of March one of the youngest boys in his class, and the year he entered Kindergarten he was 5 1/2 going in. (Which didn't bother me BTW). (I know of a few instances of kids(boys) born in April/May who were not sent to school the year they turned 5- that means they turned 7 while still in kindergarten.)

To the OP just from reading what you wrote, you should not send your child to school because it sounds to me like you've made up your mind that he isn't ready and doesn't know enough. If he doesn't do well, you will second guess yourself for his entire school career. Keep him home and be done with it.


But to everyone who red shirts, or gives the gift of time to their kids for whatever reason, I don't want to hear how smart...mature... or how well behaved your kid is... he SHOULD be.. after all he is a whole year older than some of the other kids, and it's really not fair to compare him to kids who went to school when they were supposed to.

But a lot of people do it.

 

[squirrel]

Not entirely the same situation, but our son did a private kindergarten from 8-12 when he was 5 and then did public k when he was 6. Our decision was based on drs & teachers recommendations because of our sons ADHD. In my opinion doing k5 twice was/is going to be less traumatic than if he had done public k5 & then had to do it again while his friends moved on, or heaven forbid it happened in the 3rd + grade.our son is almost 7 and will be In the first grade this year.

This is what I wanted my sister to do. My niece was diagnosed with ADD after starting grade 1. She had it all set up and could have done it but pushed her into grade 1 when she already was struggling with Kindergarten. I do think that the private school expected too much from them and set children that already had learning problems to fail and since she hadn't been diagnosed with a learning disability they thought she wasn't trying.

Go with your gut! You know your child best. I would rather someone keep their child back and them do well then to push them into starting when they truly aren't ready. I don't think many people up here in Canada red shirt, and if they do it's because the child isn't ready for Kindergarten. I've never heard of anyone up here holding their child back just so they can be the oldest/biggest. Now that we have full day Kindergarten, it's the opposite. Parents want to send them early since it means they don't have to pay for full day daycare.

 

[Mom2six]

In the end cut off dates really don't matter because no matter what month you use as a cut off, someone is going to be the youngest. Case in point. A few years ago RI had a cut off date of Dec 30. So a lot of people chose to "red shirt" or "give the gift of time" to their Oct, Nov, and Dec. babies, (especially boys), leaving boys born in July, August, and September as the youngest in the class.
DD has an October birthday- she was 4 going into school- In second grade there were 5 kids in her class with October birthdays, but 3 of them (2 boys, one girl) turned 8 while DD and another boy turned 7. Were they really peers? Who knows, but they were all in the same class.

It got a bit dicey at Christmas time in third grade when she had a boy who was 9 and a few months away from turning 10 telling all the kids in the class that Santa wasn't real. No I was not ready for my just turned 8 year old to give up the magic of Christmas, but that is what can happen when ages in classrooms become inflated.


Now the cutoff is Sept. 1. So what happens? Kids (especially boys) with June, July and August birthdays are being kept out. So that made my DS whose birthday is the end of March one of the youngest boys in his class, and the year he entered Kindergarten he was 5 1/2 going in. (Which didn't bother me BTW). (I know of a few instances of kids(boys) born in April/May who were not sent to school the year they turned 5- that means they turned 7 while still in kindergarten.)

To the OP just from reading what you wrote, you should not send your child to school because it sounds to me like you've made up your mind that he isn't ready and doesn't know enough. If he doesn't do well, you will second guess yourself for his entire school career. Keep him home and be done with it.


But to everyone who red shirts, or gives the gift of time to their kids for whatever reason, I don't want to hear how smart...mature... or how well behaved your kid is... he SHOULD be.. after all he is a whole year older than some of the other kids, and it's really not fair to compare him to kids who went to school when they were supposed to.

But a lot of people do it.

No matter what, you always will have the potential to have children a year apart in the same class. If your cut-off date is September 1, there are some children who will have a birthday of Sept 2 (like my daughter) and someone will have an August 31st birthday. The August 31 birthday will be newly 5 in Kindergarten and the September 2nd birthday will be newly 6, and in both cases they would have been following the rules.

If your child is truly not ready for school, there is no good reason to send him or her. If he or she is ready, then they should go. The age doesn't matter than much really! It should be about maturity level and whether or not the child is ready for it. Now, saying that, I've always been of the mind for my kids to start early (except my DS5 I guess - though with all his therapy, maybe he started earliest of them all at 18 months!), but we homeschool so that is not a big issue.

 

[cheer25mom]

No matter what, you always will have the potential to have children a year apart in the same class. If your cut-off date is September 1, there are some children who will have a birthday of Sept 2 (like my daughter) and someone will have an August 31st birthday. The August 31 birthday will be newly 5 in Kindergarten and the September 2nd birthday will be newly 6, and in both cases they would have been following the rules.

If your child is truly not ready for school, there is no good reason to send him or her. If he or she is ready, then they should go. The age doesn't matter than much really! It should be about maturity level and whether or not the child is ready for it. Now, saying that, I've always been of the mind for my kids to start early (except my DS5 I guess - though with all his therapy, maybe he started earliest of them all at 18 months!), but we homeschool so that is not a big issue.

But we are not talking about a year. Redshirting creates a 2 year age span in many classrooms. In DDs class (September 1 cutoff) there were 2 girls who were 4 when we started in August and turned 5 before September 1 and 4 boys who turned 7 during the year. 2 of those before Christmas. IMO, that is entirely too much of an age span for one classroom. A just turned 5 year old has no business in a classroom with 7 year olds. To use and old euphemism, it's simply not a fair fight and those parents who held back have given their kids an unfair advantage. Of course the 5 year old, who is the one who is ACTUALLY supposed to be in K will look immature next to a 7 year old. There needs to be state mandated age based placement so that all those almost 7 year olds go into 1st grade where they belong.

Another issue our school system is facing that is not being addressed here is what happens when a redshirted child needs to be held back somewhere down the line. In systems with age based promotion many of them cannot repeat another grade until they reach high school because they will be legally too old for that grade in the middle of the year. The school's hands are tied and no matter what they are passed on all the way to 9th grade. These kids know that no matter what they do or don't do they will pass on to the next grade, and we are seeing major problems with many of them in middle school. They know that they don't have to do the work to pass.

 

[Lolsmum]

I listened to my sister debate this for my nephew, who has a May birthday and is in Texas. He's been diagnosed with Aspergers. She ended up going with a private school but at the "right" age. In the public school, he would have been the youngest boy in the kindergarten, which seems absurd to me given the cut off date is months later.

I'm actually quite glad that this isn't an issue in the UK. The cut off is August 31. If you are 4 by that date, you start reception. If not, you don't. My son has a November birthday so he started at almost 5. My daughter is the baby of her class with an August birthday. In the US, I would have had no problem starting him, but really would have worried about starting her. (Especially as we now know she has a medical problem with her bladder but then we didn't know why she had so many accidents. Luckily the preschool and school here took her anyway.) I really thought she seemed so young. She's just finished year 1 and has really loved the last two years of school and done brilliantly. It amazes me to realise that in the US she still might not have started Kindergarten by this point.

I would think that barring a delay, starting kindergarten and repeating it if it proves necessary would be a much better option than holding back a child who might well be able to achieve well in the "correct" year.

 

[Ceryssa]

My two cents would be to send him to K. If he doesn't progress by the end of the year, have him repeat K. There is no stigma at that age to repeat K if he is not ready by 1st grade at the end of the K school year.

It is just my personal opinion that I would send my son to K the first year he was eligible. If he didn't progress to be ready for first grade, I would have him repeat K. At least you can say you made the attempt and the school and you agreed he wasn't ready for first grade. A lot can happen in a year.

This would be my advice too. I was concerned with sending my kids too, my oldest because she had a late birthday and my youngest because she doesn't seem emotionally ready. A former teacher friend suggested that sending her might help her mature better than holding her back would.

I know with boys especially there is always concern about sending them young. In the end you know him best, and you'll do what you think will benefit him most. I know it's not an easy decision; I'd go ahead and send him, and stay in touch frequently with the teacher about how he is progressing. There are always kids that don't know as much as they "should" going in. Most of them catch up quickly. If at the end of the year his teacher thinks he is still not where he needs to be, he can repeat.

 

[SEA333]

But to everyone who red shirts, or gives the gift of time to their kids for whatever reason, I don't want to hear how smart...mature... or how well behaved your kid is... he SHOULD be.. after all he is a whole year older than some of the other kids, and it's really not fair to compare him to kids who went to school when they were supposed to.

LOL LOL LOL

 

[DopeyDame]

But to everyone who red shirts, or gives the gift of time to their kids for whatever reason, I don't want to hear how smart...mature... or how well behaved your kid is... he SHOULD be.. after all he is a whole year older than some of the other kids, and it's really not fair to compare him to kids who went to school when they were supposed to.

But a lot of people do it.

I always roll my eyes when I hear people bragging about their kindergartner reading. Your kid is almost seven years old! Of course they're reading!

I actually hate that schools allow parents to decide to redshirt kids, but don't allow parents to decide to skip kids. Either schools trust a parents judgement about their child's readiness, or they don't. Either a school says "age is what's important, and we will accomodate all kids born between Sept 1 and Aug 31 in this year" OR they say "academics and maturity is what's important" in which case, they should test kids and place them appropriately regardless of age.

This mish-mosh of 18 month age spans totally dictated by parents on the older end is just setting up classrooms for failure.

 

[zoemurr]

I always roll my eyes when I hear people bragging about their kindergartner reading. Your kid is almost seven years old! Of course they're reading!

I actually hate that schools allow parents to decide to redshirt kids, but don't allow parents to decide to skip kids. Either schools trust a parents judgement about their child's readiness, or they don't. Either a school says "age is what's important, and we will accomodate all kids born between Sept 1 and Aug 31 in this year" OR they say "academics and maturity is what's important" in which case, they should test kids and place them appropriately regardless of age.

This mish-mosh of 18 month age spans totally dictated by parents on the older end is just setting up classrooms for failure.

This is my major complaint too. Any one can red-shirt for any reason, but a child that is just a few days or weeks past the cut-off can't start early for any reason ever. Our preschool had suggested we ask the school to test DD before K so they could evaluate her. They agreed that she did not need K but skipping it "just is not done". So, we started her on time and it was a disaster. To their credit they did put her in first part way through the year. She is starting 10th this year and has been very successful.

Our cut-off here is Dec. 1. Honestly, I think it's done to trick the parents. This way, the youngest is about Sept. 1. My son is early July, and in K there was only one child younger than he is. I thought that was crazy.

Good luck OP. I personally hate red-shirting unless there is an extreme case. I would send him and repeat if necessary, but fortunately my kids have earlier birthdays so I'll admit this is not a position I was in.

I read an interesting story once about a woman who was having a C-section scheduled. She had an older child who was very bright and was not allowed to start early even though he was just a bit after the cut-off. Her c-section was scheduled a few days into Sept. She begged the dr. to do it a bit earlier, so she could choose what year her child went, instead of it being dictated by the school. (He did.) Why is a child born Aug. 31 ready either year, but one Sept. 2 can't go for a whole 'nother year. (and in a different state that child would be ok to go until Dec. 1.)

 

[DOREEN1779]

My DS is a September baby. We held him back. Best decision we ever made.

 

[jubelee1872000]

OP Here..

For right now my choice is the half day Kindergarten program. The reasons are simply that he is not doing half of the things that are required to enter K and while I will continue to help and work with him everyday, unless he can do more than half of this required list (and yes it does say required), I will start him in half day. If he, his teacher and I think he could be ready for full time in the middle of the year, then I can always switch him. I cannot go the other way though, as the half day program is full. If he does need to repeat after a year of half K, then at least it will be a different school, where he does not have peers that know he was "Held back" and only the adults would know. If he does great and is ready to move into first grade next year, then he will go right to first grade and either way it will be at a different school. This is because there is only one half day program offered in our school district and it is not our home school..

I hope that everyone knows that I would never hold my child back for stupid reasons like sports advantage..ect..I don't even want him to have an "advantage" per se..I just want him to be at the same level going in. I don't want to set him up to fail. Him being a September baby gives us this option yes, BUT it is not the reason that I am basing the decision on. The decision is based on his readiness and attention span, eagerness to learn, maturity level..ect..

I have to pick something and stick to it, as I am driving my self CRAZY..so right now this is the plan..

 

[Angel Ariel]

You are going to get lots of people on the Dis telling you that holding them back is always better, the older kid has the advantage, ect but as an educator I will say that I would NEVER hold back a child without some sort of developmental delay that warranted it. A typical child will, in the vast majority of cases, do just fine if the parent is working with the teacher and upholding the expectations presented in the classroom.

both as a teacher, and as a child with a late birthday, i agree with this. ETA: in your situation, I'd probably send him to 1/2 day K.

When i was born, the cut off date was sometime in dec. I was born in mid-november. I was 4 when I started school, and 17 when I graduated HS.

I loved school. I did very well academically and socially. Throughout school I had friends in teh grades above and below me. because of an out of state move heading into 9th grade, I ended up moving into a district where I was actually younger than some of the kids in 8th grade. It made absolutely no difference either academically or socially.

It took me a bit longer than 4 years to graduate college, but that was a result of changing majors and prerequisite requirements I needed to catch up on.

DD is a July birthday. Right now she does have some developmental delays, and we're working with early intervention to catch her up. If she does catch up, as I have hope she will, we'll send her to school when she's eligible. If she hasn't caught up, we'll re-assess then, but only if she has delays that would affect her in school.

 

[DopeyDame]

Thought this was an interesting and relevant article:
http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2009/08/30/pressure_cooker_kindergarten/

Clearly K isn't what it used to be. And it seems like we're just caught in a vicious circle.
Instead of having a classroom full of 4 and 5 year olds (a Jan 1 cutoff that people actually followed), we now have a classroom of 5 and 6 year olds, with the occasional 7 year old thown in. So it makes sense the expectations are different. But then parents see the higher expectations, so they hold kids back (in a genuine desire to do what is right in most cases), so the kids are even older, so the expectations get even more scewed... and on and on we go.

 

[DisneyMomma81]

I vote stay home one more year.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please tell me what you think. Because I am racking my brain trying to decided on this.
Here is our story..dunnn...dunnn....lol

My DS4 is going to be 5 in September. He JUST makes the cut off for going to K this year as it has now been changed to November 1st. So he will be 4 when he starts.

My son seems so babyish to me still. He sounds a little babyish when he talks and you cannot make out every word he says. He still carry's a blankie and still takes a nap. He can get through the day without one..but at 6:30pm he is the devil.

He was in preschool when he was 3 and it was only 1 day per week and I was there with him, it was a mommy and me program.

This past year being 4 he was in a preschool program where he went 3 hours per day, 3 days per week which was costing me $145 per month.

Our school district used to have this program called the young fives program which I knew three years ago I would want him to be in. Unfortunately they did away with this program.

Where he is with his learning is..he can write his first name, he can recognize his first name..he can't cut very well and sometimes holds the scissors wrong..he only knows 5 letters of the alphabet and can count to about 13. He has a short attention span. He gets frustrated easily. DS 10 has ADHD and I hope that DS4 will not have it..but I know chances are stacked against us. Preschool teacher recommended either half day or preschool again..because she doesn't want him to get overwhelmed and hate school.

So now, our choices are...pay for preschool again...if we cant get a spot..

go to HALF day K in which case I will drive and pick up on my lunch hour. not a biggie.

OR go for it and go to full day K

Here is a list of my pro's and cons..

Half Day..Pro's..he will not be so overwhelmed with all the academics and not get as frustrated having to sit all day. He will still be able to come home and take a nap.

Con's-He will not get as much socializing or play, and they will try to cram just as much information into his brain with less time..I am worried he will be completely lost and a total crying mess and shut down..because he still seems like a baby to me..I will still have to have my mother in law over (paid) to watch him half a day.

Full day..Pro's..he can take the bus with his brother (DS10 who is in 5th grade and this will be his last year there before MS). He will get to have lunch at school, more time for friends and socialization and more reinforcement of subjects..Con's..I am truly afraid he will get lost there..He is not that great at following directions..and is easily distracted..i am scared he will get in trouble all the time for not sitting and not listening..or just truly not understand what is being said to him. I know that all I can do is try..but I just don't want to make him hate school and feel bad about himself and it is also not so good for my mommy ego either..He cannot take his blanket with him..

Also, if he is going to preK OR half day K these are at different schools than our "home" school. They only have the full time..at our home school.

So these are the K thoughts that are rattling around in my brain...Please let me know what you would do..or have don with your children..

Thanks!!!!