OT: To go to K or not to go to K? That is the question!

[Mom2six]

I was going to recommend you not send him to K because you do not think he is ready and neither does his teacher. But then I remembered you could send him to half-day K. That seems like the ideal mix. If he is not ready to give up his nap, he is not ready for full day Kindergarten even if he can physically make it through the afternoon. Can he make it without a nap day after day?

If he goes to half-day kindergarten he might catch up academically and with social skills. Then if next year he is not ready for first grade, full day kindergarten is an advancement too!

You know your child the best and you should not be intimidated by terminology. If he is ready, he is ready. If he is not ready do not make him do it. What does he think? Does Kindergarten sound fun to him or like torture to be there all day. Kids understand a lot! Good luck. I am sure you will make the right choice. Don't worry about fads or people thinking you are red- shirting him

 

[Mom2six]

I forgot to say that I think if he had a disability his pre- k teacher might have caught it too because with a class if peers, might stand out. If you worry about this (and I don't think you should worry if it is just the stuff you mentioned) you can always talk to his pediatrician to see if he is on target.

 

[msmama]

My thoughts:

I've heard that in districts with half day, the half day is filled with the more academic stuff and what they miss out on are the "enrichment activities" like art, library, gym, etc. So that's something to check about your district.

Is the 3 day/3 hour preschool your only choice if you don't do K of some kind? Sounds to me like that's not really going to help him "get ready" for K if it hasn't already.

Did you have any kind of K orientation or screening? If so, I'd suggest calling the school (or maybe do so anyway) and talking to the school psychologist or guidance councilor. They will have a better idea of the "readiness" of the other Kindergarteners, too to know whether or not he's average in his skills. He may know just what the other kids know.

You obviously have an idea of what it means to be ready for K. Ask yourself what you and your family can do to get him ready by next year? Are you sure you can do it? What if things don't change by next year? What if hey's still kind of "babyish" do use your words. (My son has been using scissors for years and is still notoriously bad at it so I know I can't use that as an example of what he "should" be able to do). (I don't mean any judgement by this or anything, just questions I think you should ask yourself to maybe get to the root of WHY you feel the way you do).

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Marionnette]

I would not send him. I don't call it "red shirting". Your son is too young & not ready. I was uneducated with my son and didn't know I could have not sent him as a very young k. Life would have been so different for him had I known & kept him out. It is a regret we have every year & it is more obvious now that we are at middle school. Trust your gut, you know what is best for your son!

I agree! "Red Shirting" is when you postpone the start of formal schooling because you want your kid to be the oldest, strongest, biggest in the class. Take the September birthday out of the equation and simply look at the readiness factors, not as dictated by the school alone, but how the parents feel about the child's emotional, social and physical readiness to enter school at this time.

I was given this advice from another parent and it helped me through schooling with 3 kids, who are all now successful college students:

"Childhood is a journey, not a race."​

Give your son the gift of time to allow him to grow. You will not regret the decision.

 

[jac1976]

From what you described, I would wait and give him another year before sending him to Kindergarten.

I taught pre-K last year and here are some of the things I looked for when it came to Kindergarten readiness-

- recognize at least 10 letters of the alphabet
- recognize numbers 1-10
- count to 20
- write name properly (first letter capitalized, the others lowercase)
- recognize and offer up rhyming words
- cut along a straight line
- recognize all of the colors
- recognize and copy basic shapes (circle, square, triangle, diamond)
- able to recognize and reproduce patterns
- separate from parent without getting upset
- can handle disappointment without crying

 

[mm1971]

It is BY FAR..not me that would "red shirt" him because I want him to be ahead of the game..he is actually only where a preschooler would be at the beginning of a year..(knowing a handful of letters, fumbling with scissors ect...), K is 5 not four..by November 1st..so even though you think he "sounds" like he is doing what 4 year old should be doing, they expect him to be doing what a 5 year old is doing.

For example..here is the of what the K expects him to know..GOING IN..

Write First Name? Yes
Recognize first name? Yes
Name all Capital letters in mixed order? NO
Rhyming Skills? No
Say the alphabet clearly without singing it? NO
Identify numbers 0-10-NO
Write Numbers 0-10-NO
Put numbers 0-10 in order (using a set of flashcards that are mixed up, put them in order 0-10)-NO
County aloud from 0-20-to 12ish they then they get crazy..so NO
Draw a picture including common objects: animals tree house person using basic shapes.-NO
Be familiar with the parts of a book: Cover, Text words, Where do you start Reading?-Kind of

So..this is not merely MY problem and "unreadiness" to send him..especially if the TEACHER is the first person to suggest it.

I'm pretty sure they are not EXPECTED to know all this stuff at the start of the year. I have one child that is younger than most of his classmates and a daughter that just missed the cut and is older than most in her grade. Both had very similar experiences to date in school.

If it were me and there were no underlying issues that would make starting K this year harder than on normal kids, I would send him. You can always repeat K next year if he isn't able to retain all that is taught this year and struggles. it's amazing how much our kids surprise us. I would suggest the half day though as a full day may be a tough transition from the information you provided.

Good luck with your decision. You know your son better than anyone.

 

[ktlm]

That's a tough one. Around here, I would say that he would not be ready based on what they are expected to know going in and what they are supposed to have learned by the end of the 1st quarter of the kindergarten school year (counting to 35, counting backwards from 10, writing numbers 1 to 10, reading a list of sight words, identifying all capital AND lower case letters and producing all their sounds and writing some of them; identifying shapes; identifying coins and values; etc). DD is in 1st grade his year, and I was shocked because in the 2nd half of the school year, they were expected to learn fractions! I sure don't remember learning about those when I was in 1st grade!

BUT, around here he would also not make the cut-off. Is it possible that your school district has changed the cut-off until later because they DON'T expect them to know as much going in? I think different school districts and areas, the expectations really vary in this regard. There may be a reason for a later cut off in your area.

I would talk to the school administration and/or counselor about what is expected of them going into kindergarten there and also look at the skills expectations for each quarter. I would talk to them about whether they believe he would be ready. Does your school have a kindgergarten website (or even just a page on the school's website) that sets out expectations, sight lists, assignments; etc. for the year? We do. That would be a good place to start looking if you have one. I think the decision should be based on what your grade school expects of him going into, and in, kindergarten.

We have 2 sets of friends who held their kids back, even though they met the cut-off by over a month because they thought they were too young and they were both smaller in size than a lot of their peers. Both of those kids were pretty advanced in what they could do at the time they were held back (already recognizing some sight words, writing a little etc.) As a result, they were pretty bored in kindergarten- although around here the teachers do a good job of moving everyone forward whatever level they are. In my opinion, those kids would have been fine, and probably should have gone ahead. I would not have held either of them back if they were my kids ( but there will be no question that they are now ready for 1st grade).

On the flip side though, DD is getting ready to go to second grade. Last year, one of the kids in her kindergarten class who barely made the cut-off, was just not ready to go on to 1st grade. He just was not ready to learn all the kindergarten skills due to his age. It was pretty rough on him the first part of the school year when he had to see all his friends in 1st grade, and has was back in kindergarten. I just heard from he family of one of DD's friend's who is also a close to cut off kid, and they advised me that they are holding DD's friend back in 1st grade this year, because she just doesn't have the maturity and attention span needed for 2nd grade, and is more comfortable socially with younger kids. She is doing okay academically, but it was just felt by everyone that in the long run she would do a lot better academically and otherwise if she was held back. Her family is now in the process of contacting all of her friend's parents, because they are worried about how it is going to be for her at school, and want all her friends to know ahead of time so they don't ask her a bunch of questions the first day and make it harder on her. Our school has a school body meeting every morning before class, so you do see everyone in their class groups every day. She will be walking to sit with her 1st grade class every morning looking at all of her friends in the 2nd grade class sitting in he rows behind her.

In my opinion too many people do hold back, BUT I also think it is better to have a delayed start than to be held back in the same school and watch all your friends in the year ahead of you. It is a rough decision, and I wish you luck in making it. It can be really hard to be a parent sometimes.

 

[ktlm]

I just noticed you said that if you send him to 1/2 day kindergarten, it would be at a different school than your "home" school. I would almost be tempted to do that. That way you can test the waters and see how he does. If he does not do well and he re-takes kindergarten, I don't think it will be that big a deal to him as it will be at a different school and he will not see his friends moving up without him. My only issue, is that if he is only in 1/2 day kindergarten and at a different school, will that put him behind the kids at his "home" school. How is the curriculum different? At the 1/2 day, do they just cut out gym, music, recess, and lunch? If so, it shouldn't be that big a deal.

Our 2 sets of friends that held their kids back, each had them in private Pre-K the first, year and then one put hers in a different private Pre-K the next year, and the other did pre-K at their "home" school. So their kids both did Pre-K twice. Which I think they were both more bored doing Pre-K a 2nd time, than they were in kindergarten, but they did fine.

 

[cheer25mom]

I agree! "Red Shirting" is when you postpone the start of formal schooling because you want your kid to be the oldest, strongest, biggest in the class. Take the September birthday out of the equation and simply look at the readiness factors, not as dictated by the school alone, but how the parents feel about the child's emotional, social and physical readiness to enter school at this time.

I was given this advice from another parent and it helped me through schooling with 3 kids, who are all now successful college students:

"Childhood is a journey, not a race."​

Give your son the gift of time to allow him to grow. You will not regret the decision.

No, in academic terms a redshirt is any child who doesn't start on tie according to the age cutoff set by their district. They are bucking the rules to give their kid a leg up, period. The "gift of time" is really only a gift to the parent. Most of the time the child suffers for it. They are babied and NOT prepared to handle the world on their own. I don't believe that trying to keep my kid a baby longer does her any favors. I think kids are much better off being pushed to achieve their potential than being held back from it.

 

[DaniMoon]

I am not sending my son. He turns 5 in August. Every single educator I have spoken to has said if you have any doubts, wait. I think my son would be OK academically, but maturity wise it would be frustrating for him. I know exactly what is expected, since my daughter just finished her K.

I do think it's a regional thing because here, it tends to be a 50/50 on waiting for late summer birthdays, while I know my friends in Texas were shocked that I was even considering it because it's not the norm there.

In the end, whatever you do will work out for the best because you won't know what the other way would have been. Bottom line, you know your child better than anyone else and you will make the right direction decision for your family.

 

[Marionnette]

No, in academic terms a redshirt is any child who doesn't start on tie according to the age cutoff set by their district. They are bucking the rules to give their kid a leg up, period. The "gift of time" is really only a gift to the parent. Most of the time the child suffers for it. They are babied and NOT prepared to handle the world on their own. I don't believe that trying to keep my kid a baby longer does her any favors. I think kids are much better off being pushed to achieve their potential than being held back from it.

Not every child matures at the same rate and to force a kid to enter an academic setting for which he is not prepared to handle emotionally just because his chronological age falls within the cutoff is doing the child a disservice. Age cutoffs are a guideline and not a strict rule. No one is saying that a kid should be held back from their potential. But a child who is not ready for school will only meet with frustration and disappointment.

You have some very strong opinions. I would love to see your data that supports your statement that "Most of the time the child suffers for it." I've seen plenty of studies to the contrary.

 

[cheer25mom]

Not every child matures at the same rate and to force a kid to enter an academic setting for which he is not prepared to handle emotionally just because his chronological age falls within the cutoff is doing the child a disservice. Age cutoffs are a guideline and not a strict rule. No one is saying that a kid should be held back from their potential. But a child who is not ready for school will only meet with frustration and disappointment.

You have some very strong opinions. I would love to see your data that supports your statement that "Most of the time the child suffers for it." I've seen plenty of studies to the contrary.

The best study there is, years of experience. It is a very rare child that meets the age cutoff but is truly not ready to function in K. Most of the time, parents see everyone else doing it and think their kid will be at a disadvantage if they don't do it too, so they convince themselves he is "not ready." If you give all of those "not ready" boys 3 months in a classroom with proper support at home, they do fine. If parents are not on board and foster the "he's not ready" attitude, they tend to struggle. Again, no study just years of experience. Take it or leave it, but it is what I see happen over and over. Give the kid a chance and they can do it. Convince yourself they can't and they know it and believe it too. I don't need a study to feel confident in what I have experienced myself time and again.

 

[SEA333]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please tell me what you think. Because I am racking my brain trying to decided on this.
Here is our story..dunnn...dunnn....lol

My DS4 is going to be 5 in September. He JUST makes the cut off for going to K this year as it has now been changed to November 1st. So he will be 4 when he starts.

My son seems so babyish to me still. He sounds a little babyish when he talks and you cannot make out every word he says. He still carry's a blankie and still takes a nap. He can get through the day without one..but at 6:30pm he is the devil.

He was in preschool when he was 3 and it was only 1 day per week and I was there with him, it was a mommy and me program.

This past year being 4 he was in a preschool program where he went 3 hours per day, 3 days per week which was costing me $145 per month.

Our school district used to have this program called the young fives program which I knew three years ago I would want him to be in. Unfortunately they did away with this program.

Where he is with his learning is..he can write his first name, he can recognize his first name..he can't cut very well and sometimes holds the scissors wrong..he only knows 5 letters of the alphabet and can count to about 13. He has a short attention span. He gets frustrated easily. DS 10 has ADHD and I hope that DS4 will not have it..but I know chances are stacked against us. Preschool teacher recommended either half day or preschool again..because she doesn't want him to get overwhelmed and hate school.

So now, our choices are...pay for preschool again...if we cant get a spot..

go to HALF day K in which case I will drive and pick up on my lunch hour. not a biggie.

OR go for it and go to full day K

Here is a list of my pro's and cons..

Half Day..Pro's..he will not be so overwhelmed with all the academics and not get as frustrated having to sit all day. He will still be able to come home and take a nap.

Con's-He will not get as much socializing or play, and they will try to cram just as much information into his brain with less time..I am worried he will be completely lost and a total crying mess and shut down..because he still seems like a baby to me..I will still have to have my mother in law over (paid) to watch him half a day.

Full day..Pro's..he can take the bus with his brother (DS10 who is in 5th grade and this will be his last year there before MS). He will get to have lunch at school, more time for friends and socialization and more reinforcement of subjects..Con's..I am truly afraid he will get lost there..He is not that great at following directions..and is easily distracted..i am scared he will get in trouble all the time for not sitting and not listening..or just truly not understand what is being said to him. I know that all I can do is try..but I just don't want to make him hate school and feel bad about himself and it is also not so good for my mommy ego either..He cannot take his blanket with him..

Also, if he is going to preK OR half day K these are at different schools than our "home" school. They only have the full time..at our home school.

So these are the K thoughts that are rattling around in my brain...Please let me know what you would do..or have don with your children..

Thanks!!!!

If you are having ANY qualms, and it sounds like you are, with a late fall birthday and a Nov. cutoff, I would wait and send him to K next year. I've only skimmed a few of the posts, so I admit that I haven't read the entire thread, but the "red-shirting" that I saw PP's referring to doesn't seem apply here. You have a legitimate reason for wanting your child to stay back - he is not ready to go. I'm so sorry that your district did away with the young-fives program...that is a perfect transition for *young fives* between preschool and full-fledged K.

I have two kids born at the very end of June, and in Michigan, where they started school, the age cutoff is December 1. They were always one of the youngest kids in their classes because we *did* offer a young 5's for kids born between July 1-Nov30th, which my kids with birthdays on June 28th and June 29th did not qualify for but everyone younger than them did. We have since moved to Illinois, where the age cutoff is September 1, so now, not only are they almost the VERY youngest, they are almost 2 years younger than some of the kids in their class. My DS13, for example, is going into 8th grade and JUST turned 13 a few weeks ago, while some of his friends have been 13 for a whole year and will be turning 14 soon. Some will even be turning 15 in a few months.

My youngest, who was born in Feb. is usually in the "younger" 1/2 of his class, too, because of all the kids who didn't make the Sept.1 cut-off. His best friend will be turning 8 on Sept 6th. He's almost 6 months older than my February-born child!

Here is my experience, for what it is worth:

Your child may struggle as a young 5 in Kindergarten, or he may not.

Once your child reaches Middle School, you will see a HUGe difference in the maturity level between your son and the kids who are a year (or more) older than he is. My oldest was always one of the youngest kids, but always a head taller. Once he reached 6th-7th grade, everyone started growing except for him, which makes sense becuase he was a Whole Year Younger! So now he is not "tall", and looks small(er)for his age. Not the hugest deal for us because now he looks more "typical" LOL, but if your child is on the smaller side to begin with, expect that everyone else in his grade will tower above him throughout Middle School.

Your child will always be hanging out with peers that are between 1-2 years older than he is - again, not a big deal in K, but once Middle School and high school start, he will still be thinking Cartoon Network and his peers will be thinking rated R movies. he will still be thinking girls are gross, but his peers will have girlfriends.

Lastly, I would encourage you to talk to people who have decided to delay K for a year with a young 5. I have yet to meet a parent who kept their kid out of K for that extra year who REGRET it, but I have met LOT of parents who pushed their kid into K as a young 5 and have suffered the reprucussions year after year, both socially and academically.

Also remember, no matter what you decide to do, the best indicator of academic success is parental involvement. Partner with your child's teacher and work TOGETHER every year to help your child with whatever he needs to succeed.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[SEA333]

The best study there is, years of experience. It is a very rare child that meets the age cutoff but is truly not ready to function in K. Most of the time, parents see everyone else doing it and think their kid will be at a disadvantage if they don't do it too, so they convince themselves he is "not ready." If you give all of those "not ready" boys 3 months in a classroom with proper support at home, they do fine. If parents are not on board and foster the "he's not ready" attitude, they tend to struggle. Again, no study just years of experience. Take it or leave it, but it is what I see happen over and over. Give the kid a chance and they can do it. Convince yourself they can't and they know it and believe it too. I don't need a study to feel confident in what I have experienced myself time and again.

I'm sorry, and not attacking here, but I don't know how else to say it, - there are many flaws in that thinking, which is why so many states have adopted September 1st cutoffs instead of November or December. In Illinois, this parent wouldn't have a choice - her son would automatically go next year instead of this year. Would she still be making "excuses" and setting her son up to fail if it was mandated by the state that he wasn't eligible to go?

Of course not.

 

[cheer25mom]

I'm sorry, and not attacking here, but I don't know how else to say it, - there are many flaws in that thinking, which is why so many states have adopted September 1st cutoffs instead of November or December. In Illinois, this parent wouldn't have a choice - her son would automatically go next year instead of this year. Would she still be making "excuses" and setting her son up to fail if it was mandated by the state that he wasn't eligible to go?

Of course not.

What you are not taking into account is that when states change the cutoff, they are also changing the curriculum and expectations to line up with that cutoff. Programs are designed so that the overwhelming majority of children who meet the cutoff age will be able to be successful. The problem comes when parents begin redshirting and artificially inflate the age range in the classroom. The state says he is eligible because their program s designed so that this age child can be successful. A state that says he needs to wait will have a program designed for older 5s.

 

[SEA333]

I'm pretty sure they are not EXPECTED to know all this stuff at the start of the year. I have one child that is younger than most of his classmates and a daughter that just missed the cut and is older than most in her grade. Both had very similar experiences to date in school.

Ummm....yes, they are. In my school district at least. And in First Grade, they are expected to read 75 words+ a minute. My February-born 1st grader was put into reading-improvement last year because he was a "slow reader". He is going to summer school starting Monday also because of this. For his grade, in our district, he is "behind" because he is reading level 1-2 books with 6-10 sentences on a page and reading 50-55 words a minute. Other kids in his class are reading full-fledge chapter books.

My district is ranked #15 in the state (in 2012) for college-preparedness.

The amount of information kids are expected to know before school now is mind-numbing.

 

[henry72]

OK - I did NOT read all the other posts. I will say that we held DS out of K for a year. Here the cut off is Sept 1 and I always assumed when he was 5 he would go to Kinder. He attended preschool at 3 for 3 mornings a week. At 4, he attended every morning. His preschool teacher in the 4s is the one who recommended we hold him back. (He has a summer birthday.) She felt he was ready academically but not socially. It took him until April to even talk to her. OMG - what a difference that year made. They had a special program at his preschool called "Gift of Time" which was for "younger 5s". We sent him to that. He grew so much in that year! He would interact with others - talk to adults.

Before we made our decision to hold him back, we talked to lots of people - the counselors at his school, teachers, other parents. Not one of them had heard of anyone regretting holding back their child. Here in Texas they do serious testing in third grade and more teachers felt it was better to hold him back and have have prepared for that. They said many kids struggled with testing and that the extra year could help.

Now could he have gone to K when he was 5 and done okay? Maybe. I think he would have been one of the shy kids in the class and would have not interacted as well as he did by being a year older. Yes, he is one of the oldest kids in his class but only by a few months in some cases (for those who miss the cut off.)

Don't worry about those who tell you that you should push him into K because that is the "norm." (My mom did that to us.) You need to do what is right for your kid - not someone else kid.

Good luck in your decision.

 

[theelfqueen]

My 17 year old started Kindergarten at four, bucking the district cutoffs by attending a private school.

From an academic standpoint - it was the right choice for him. He's always been the top of his class (just graduated in the top ten percent and is headed for college on a Full Ride scholarship this fall...) and taken advanced classes and made Eagle Scout and so-on and so-forth. From the beginning we were interested in the academic challenge and felt that he was in need of it.

As he grew older the age difference between him and the other kids became more apparent at times. Many times he just plain wasn't as mature as other kids in his class -- some of whom were nearly two years older- the difference between a ten year old and a twelve year old; or a thirteen year old and a fifteen year old can be pretty intimidating, especially when they're both 9th graders!! His freshman year of high school he was literally the YOUNGEST kid in the entire high school. Socially this sometimes created big difficulties for him. Even now -- he's off to college in the fall, at 17. Talk about mama flutters!!!

If you are at all doubting it -- I'd WAIT. This is NOT just a decision about Kindergarten -- it's about the next 12+ years.

 

[brymolmom]

My 17 year old started Kindergarten at four, bucking the district cutoffs by attending a private school.

From an academic standpoint - it was the right choice for him. He's always been the top of his class (just graduated in the top ten percent and is headed for college on a Full Ride scholarship this fall...) and taken advanced classes and made Eagle Scout and so-on and so-forth. From the beginning we were interested in the academic challenge and felt that he was in need of it.

As he grew older the age difference between him and the other kids became more apparent at times. Many times he just plain wasn't as mature as other kids in his class -- some of whom were nearly two years older- the difference between a ten year old and a twelve year old; or a thirteen year old and a fifteen year old can be pretty intimidating, especially when they're both 9th graders!! His freshman year of high school he was literally the YOUNGEST kid in the entire high school. Socially this sometimes created big difficulties for him. Even now -- he's off to college in the fall, at 17. Talk about mama flutters!!!

If you are at all doubting it -- I'd WAIT. This is NOT just a decision about Kindergarten -- it's about the next 12+ years.

Bolded - mine. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone sent their kids to school on time - THEN there wouldn't be such a huge age difference?? Then the playing field would be way more even - with all kids within a 12 month age span. Ah - we can always hope that it will be legislated and will be this way in the future.

 

[squirrel]

Is there a way for him to do a 1/2 day this coming year to prep him for a full day next year?

My sister had my niece who was born premature and near the end of our cut off (Dec. 31) start on time at a private school. She struggled. My sister was going to switch schools anyway for Grade 1 and I suggested that she just enroll her in Kindergarten again, since only the family and possibly a teacher or two and the principle would know. My sister just let her move into Grade 1. She still struggled and now that she is in Grade 3 has almost caught up but they have had tutors for her for quite a while and she has had extra support at school.

I would not rush your child into Kindergarten. I know a friend held her child back, not because she was behind but because she wasn't mature enough to be without mom. She finished Kindergarten this year and did really well (of course she was fine academically since she was almost a year older than a lot of the kids).

Yikes, I saw the list of things that someone posted that Kindergarten kids need to know. Our schools are way tougher. My niece was expected to read by the middle of Kindergarten in the private school. It was too much for her and she started to hate school. Up here the kids are tested before they even start Kindergarten and parents are told what their child needs to work on. One of my daycare kids was fine on everything but could work on his similar and differences of two objects.

I'm fairly certain they want the children to know the alphabet and be able to recognize their name and be at least starting to write it. Count to 20 (might even be higher). Know what books are and how to use them (hold them correctly and turn the pages from right to left). I'm sure I have the information downstairs somewhere in the daycare.