New AK Ride In The Works

[raidermatt]

This is a fairly sizeable market segment. If you lose the kids now, you may not get them back when they get older.

This is not a new issue for Disney. The simple fact is, a coaster, while great for the segment you speak of, does little to nothing for the larger segment of Disney's guests that would prefer family-inclusive attractions (we've covered this before, family-inclusive does not mean a Pirates clone...)

With the limited amout of capital Disney is willing to spend, it makes little sense to use it on a smaller segment you are trying to capture, rather than a larger (and higher spending) segment you have but need to keep satisfied.

Further, a truly innovative and creative family attraction would still have value to the thrill-seekers.

Its the quality that counts, not the quantity.

No, it's both - neither of which the AK has

Again, AK has three thrill attractions. That's the same number as MGM, and only one less than MK.

If quantity is the problem, its an equal problem in the better drawing parks.

The young person attending WDW grows up and considers their particular experience when weighing the decision to revisit.

Same story, different day. What actually happens is the young kids grow-up, and have more young kids who can't ride thrill rides. So they go to the place that caters to them. Its been happening for decades.

I think WDW could stand to have a few rides for these kids.

Its not so much that there is NO place for these rides, its that they now make up the vast majority of the major additions and replacements.

When you have a philosophy of providing family entertainment with creativity and quality, you end-up with attractions like Pirates, HM, SE and even the recently discussed KS.

When you have a philosophy of capturing market segments, you look for things to provide that market segment. So, you provide something to keep group A happy, something for B, and something for C. But you don't provide much for A, B AND C.

Its the easy way out. Yes, you can make money at it, like Six Flag's has, but you don't make Disney money.

 

[KNWVIKING]

After all the past threads/post dealing with how US/IOA "gets it" and throw in the negatives about Cal Screamin in DCA, it seems strange to read so much resistance to a ride we really don't know much about, but from the few details we have sounds like it will be done properly. I doubt very much Everest will be a coaster on the level of Nitro or Dragster or even Hulk, (after all, if ME says it's going to be great,doesn't that really mean okay). We all agree AK needs more, and that doesn't mean more Dino, and it appears now we're going to get it. The fact that young males will like it is just a bonus,IMHO.

 

[All Aboard]

Vike, my position in this post really has nothing to do with Beastly Forbidden Everest. Rather, I was just responding (again) to the notion that some folks have the WDW needs to add more and more thrill attractions.

WDW needs more attractions that can appeal to the largest portion of the (as much as d-r will hate this) family as possible. That's been their success factor and I don't see why this needs to change.

I'm in agreement with the occaisonal teen ride that airlarry mentioned. But, I feel that the teen ride is becoming the norm. We've been down this road before, but since the end of 1998, it seems that every attraction that has been added to WDW has either been a thrill attraction with a height requirement, or a hub and spoke spinner. Nothing in between. No modern day Pirates or Haunted Mansion or 20,000 leagues or Jungle Cruise or Enchanted Tiki Room. Not clones of those, but modern day versions that have the effect of drawing in the entire family of today. Is that impossible?

 

[Testtrack321]

I'm happy.

I don't want to make any guesses untill I see pics, but I have a feeling that Mikie was a little more open to say this since Universal down the street is building their new coaster.

BTW, oh Landbarron?

What did you say before?

 

[KNWVIKING]

Point taken Scoop. "gets it" was just the my way to communicate all the good spin US/IOA seems to get.

 

[raidermatt]

Viking, gcurling covered my position as well. Its not about whether this attraction is well-done, with true story and themeing or not. That's a separate execution issue, and frankly, its one we have no real info about.

We all agree AK needs more, and that doesn't mean more Dino, and it appears now we're going to get it.

Before making this judgement, it might be prudent to go back and look at some of Disney's statements about Dino, DCA, etc.

The truth is, we really don't know what we are getting yet.

The fact that young males will like it is just a bonus,IMHO.

But see, this IS the point. Its a bonus, but there's the negative that younger males won't be able to ride it. Many adults just simply don't ride these either, for a variety of reasons.


As for US/IOA, I think you'll find we have varying opinions on them. I don't think anyone really thinks they "get it" in the true "Walt-like" sense. I think where they get praise, is that on a per-park basis, they seem more willing to expand and enhance with new attractions. Further, they understand their market is more teen-oriented, and while they are trying to become a family resort, they are not ignoring their base.

Disney is more family oriented, and in its efforts to reach out to teens, they seem to be neglecting their base.


ADDED IN EDIT: I didn't see the Viking/Scoop exhange before posting this.

 

[crusader]

WDW needs more attractions that can appeal to the largest portion of the (as much as d-r will hate this) family as possible. That's been their success factor and I don't see why this needs to change.

The attractions with "appeal" being referred to here were always few and limited - even back in the day. I keep reading over and over again about the need for a modern day pirates or haunted mansion or 20,000 leagues (which by the way was really not very good!). That's it. Did I miss something? There are four parks last time I counted and these are the best you can come up with? So if my calculations are correct, WDW hasn't given us anything in the past 35 years. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the present regime, it is a standard practice for this Co.

So why continue to regularly patronize an organization which has left you with less and less. There must be something driving the regulars there besides outdated technology.

 

[raidermatt]

Spaceship Earth, Hall of Presidents, American Adventure, Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln, Tiki Room, Horizons, World of Motion, Energy Adventure, Journey into Your Imagination, Fantasmic, Illuminations, Food Rocks, The Living Seas, Great Movie Ride, Kilaminjaro Safaris, People Mover, Railroad, Monorail, Jungle Cruise, Cranium Command, Maelstrom, Rio Del Tiempo, Skyway, Peter Pan, Its a Small World, and others that don't immediately come to mind.

Some are more tame than others, and of course they don't all appeal to everyone, but to say Pirates, HM, and 20K is it is a *slight* exaggeration.

 

[KNWVIKING]

"Before making this judgement, it might be prudent to go back and look at some of Disney's statements about Dino, DCA, etc."

My statement wasn't just based on what ME just said. Mostly it was based on recent posts here about leaked info on Forbid/Beast/Everest. Combining those posts along with ME statement led me to state " and it appears now we're going to get it".


"But see, this IS the point. Its a bonus, but there's the negative that younger males won't be able to ride it. Many adults just simply don't ride these either, for a variety of reasons."

There will always be rides that not everyone will ride. My DW won't get on TeaCups, makes her sick. Height requirements will always be there for certain rides, as I assume Everest will have, but since basically every coaster ride will have a height guide,why not make this one a little edgier for the sake of those-young & old- who appriciate rides like that. There are people that won't get on any coasters, building a more thrilling one will not affect cheat them out of a new ride any less then building a less thrilling one.

 

[pheneix]

>>>I can't really think of anyone around here who thinks Universal "gets it" as we use that term.<<<

Having seen the influence that the new management team in Orlando has had over the past year I can uinequivocally say that Universal "gets it" in spades.

>>>I think where they get praise, is that on a per-park basis, they seem more willing to expand and enhance with new attractions.<<<

A lot of it is that, but there have also been great strides in guest service and entertainment at their parks too. For anyone to claim overwise really says a lot about someone's ignorance of Universal's theme parks.

>>>I have a feeling that Mikie was a little more open to say this since Universal down the street is building their new coaster.<<<

I second that, but I think Mikey is going to be floored by what they are putting Mt. Everest up against.

 

[crusader]

Some are more tame than others, and of course they don't all appeal to everyone, but to say Pirates, HM, and 20K is it is a *slight* exaggeration

OK maybe - now where's the list of thrills. There aren't enough. And as I read your list I am reminded of how much has been installed for the slow riders. .

There are people that won't get on any coasters, building a more thrilling one will not affect cheat them out of a new ride any less then building a less thrilling one.

I agree. There's plenty of room for a real coaster at AK and I am certain it will drive the numbers up. This does not deter the theme element of WDW at all. It will simply be a welcome addition to the mountain attractions they have held for years.

 

[d-r]

y'all are so funny.

 

[Eyesnur]

Is it true that Universal is testing actual teleportation for their new rides? I hear 'Back To The Future' will be updated to really transport us back to the future...Man that Universal sure is the best...

 

[crusader]

I second that, but I think Mikey is going to be floored by what they are putting Mt. Everest up against.

Now I am curious.

 

[pheneix]

Well, here is a little taste of what is going on in the halls of Universal Creative:

Link

It should be pretty obvious that the patent filed was for the Apollo 13 themed ride that Universal damn near built in the late 90's, and is not directly related to the current project(s) going on at Universal right now.

However, to say that the ride system patented is still "alive" would be QUITE the understatement, and several years of advancement in design and technology can cook up some interesting things...

 

[KNWVIKING]

Just curious on the Mt Everest abbreviation, isn't ME already taken ? Seems very familiar.

 

[raidermatt]

My statement wasn't just based on what ME just said. Mostly it was based on recent posts here about leaked info on Forbid/Beast/Everest. Combining those posts along with ME statement led me to state " and it appears now we're going to get it".

All we've really heard is some info on where the idea came from. I'm not saying there is any proof that the ride will stink, just pointing out that plans are constantly changed, and more importantly, scaled back from the original ideas we hear about.

Height requirements will always be there for certain rides, as I assume Everest will have, but since basically every coaster ride will have a height guide,why not make this one a little edgier for the sake of those-young & old- who appriciate rides like that.

So if you're going to eliminate X percent of your base, why not elminate X+Y percent?

OK maybe - now where's the list of thrills. There aren't enough.

Why is 3 or 4 enough for MK and MGM to draw 14 million and 8 million respectively last year, while AK only drew 7.3? Epcot only has 2 and drew 8.3 million.

Again, the quality of those three attractions is far more important than whether there's three or four.

Or forget all that, and just explain why Disney outdraws every thrill park on the planet... There seems to be more to it than just the number of thrill rides.

It will simply be a welcome addition to the mountain attractions they have held for years.

In business, everything carries an opportunity cost. The tighter the reigns on spending, the more important this concept becomes. In this case, the question becomes, will you get more benefit from those who will like this attraction than you would from an attraction that appeals to a wider section of your base.

Of course, it is easier to provide a coaster, since even if you skimp on story, themeing and show, some will still like it. Skimp on that stuff in a family ride and you've got something of little value.

But of course, that wouldn't have anything to do with Disney's decision-making, would it?

 

[petecaler]

Originally posted by raidermatt
Or forget all that, and just explain why Disney outdraws every thrill park on the planet... There seems to be more to it than just the number of thrill rides.? [/B]

Disney outdraws for one simple reason. Theming. Nobody drops thousands to go to six flags and ride all the pre-packed thrill rides. Sure,they're fun, but they are'nt anywhere near the totally immersive experience that you get at disney. DCA is a good example of disney forgetting the formula.

 

[crusader]

pheneix -

I want to thank you for that link. Absolutely great read!!!

Why is 3 or 4 enough for MK and MGM to draw 14 million and 8 million respectively last year, while AK only drew 7.3? Epcot only has 2 and drew 8.3 million.

I think I might be a bit lost here.

MK draws record numbers for so many different reasons - mainly because it is the true icon of Walt Disney World.
It is where "magic lives" and that is what every guest purchased.

MGM has two main thrill rides without which would probably do considerably less in attendance.

EPCOT has a marginal 1 thrill right now soon to be replaced by M:S.

AK has none that really fit this category.

Now look at these numbers carefully - MK draws over 40% more visitors than any of the other parks. There will be several theories here on the why but consider this - it is where "all" the rides are and isn't that what everybody wants in a theme park?

 

[DisneyKidds]

I believe you questioned my sanity recently over my belief that this would be built.

it seems strange to read so much resistance to a ride we really don't know much about

Welcome to my world guys .

There will always be rides that not everyone will ride. My DW won't get on TeaCups, makes her sick. Height requirements will always be there for certain rides, as I assume Everest will have, but since basically every coaster ride will have a height guide,why not make this one a little edgier for the sake of those-young & old- who appriciate rides like that. There are people that won't get on any coasters, building a more thrilling one will not affect cheat them out of a new ride any less then building a less thrilling one.

...........and well said Viking .

I'm sure that whatever they call it, whatever they do with it, this ride will get beat up around here. I think it will be a good addition. I think themeing is what makes people want to come to Disney. I hope they theme this coaster well. Can't wait to hear more details.