Mexican Children Begging???

[clawmachine]

I'm glad this subject came up, actually, because I had not been thinking about it and now I can prepare my kids should we encounter this situation. We adopted our first child from a developing country, not because we wanted to "save" a child, but because we very much wanted to become parents. However Americanized and privileged he is now, he still looks very much like those sweet-faced little ones we have seen in his birth country and possibly will see again in port cities. Had his fate been different, he might BE one of those kids. We have photos of the children we sponsor through Children Intl. on our fridge and I would be a complete hypocrite to try to explain why we help those kids but not others standing right in front of us. While I do understand everyone's point of view here, I can't imagine asking any of my children to turn their backs on kids their own age who have nothing. We will have to figure out a plan for how we can acknowledge the begging and help them out in the kindness way possible...and in a way that can lead to an educational discussion later. As someone said before, a vacation should not have to be stressful in any way, but it always can be a learning experience...

 

[elkesails]

I'm glad this subject came up, actually, because I had not been thinking about it and now I can prepare my kids should we encounter this situation. We adopted our first child from a developing country, not because we wanted to "save" a child, but because we very much wanted to become parents. However Americanized and privileged he is now, he still looks very much like those sweet-faced little ones we have seen in his birth country and possibly will see again in port cities. Had his fate been different, he might BE one of those kids. We have photos of the children we sponsor through Children Intl. on our fridge and I would be a complete hypocrite to try to explain why we help those kids but not others standing right in front of us. While I do understand everyone's point of view here, I can't imagine asking any of my children to turn their backs on kids their own age who have nothing. We will have to figure out a plan for how we can acknowledge the begging and help them out in the kindness way possible...and in a way that can lead to an educational discussion later. As someone said before, a vacation should not have to be stressful in any way, but it always can be a learning experience...

Beautifully said...thank you

 

[insureman]

Here's the sad truth about child beggars in Mexico that might make some to think twice about giving money to these unfortunate kids.
Excerpt "Additionally,
missionaries often comment that the major
economic export in the Oaxaca region is children
auctioned to handlers who exploit them as beggars.
Oaxacan children, some as young as three, are routinely
seen begging for money in the tourist areas
of Ensenada, Rosarito, and Tijuana. On a good day,
a begging child can net as much as $100 dollars
from tourists."
From page 81 of Military Review
http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/MilitaryReview/Archives/English/MilitaryReview_20080228_art012.pdf

 

[sayhello]

Here's the sad truth about child beggars in Mexico that might make some to think twice about giving money to these unfortunate kids.
Excerpt "Additionally,
missionaries often comment that the major
economic export in the Oaxaca region is children
auctioned to handlers who exploit them as beggars.
Oaxacan children, some as young as three, are routinely
seen begging for money in the tourist areas
of Ensenada, Rosarito, and Tijuana. On a good day,
a begging child can net as much as $100 dollars
from tourists."
From page 81 of Military Review
http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/MilitaryReview/Archives/English/MilitaryReview_20080228_art012.pdf

Wow! That article was an eye-opener! The storefront flyer from Ensenada really says a lot!

So very sad.

Sayhello

 

[Anjelica]

Wow! That article was an eye-opener! The storefront flyer from Ensenada really says a lot!

So very sad.

Sayhello

Agreed - Was interesting reading some of the history (not related to the store front flyer).

Thanks for the link insureman.

In terms of the flyer - St. Louis actually has outlawed pandering/begging. Instead St. Louis along with a great outfit call the McMurphy House (no relation) have been working with the general public to get people to direct the homeless into their facilities rather than giving them money. The McMurphy House actually helps people with not only bare necessities such as food and water but they also help them get jobs, etc.

The McMurphy House has a restaurant where many of the servers/waiters/waitresses were once homeless - we frequent it several times a year.

 

[elkesails]

Agreed - Was interesting reading some of the history (not related to the store front flyer).

Thanks for the link insureman.

In terms of the flyer - St. Louis actually has outlawed pandering/begging. Instead St. Louis along with a great outfit call the McMurphy House (no relation) have been working with the general public to get people to direct the homeless into their facilities rather than giving them money. The McMurphy House actually helps people with not only bare necessities such as food and water but they also help them get jobs, etc.

The McMurphy House has a restaurant where many of the servers/waiters/waitresses were once homeless - we frequent it several times a year.

Well... I am relieved to know that the people of St Louis are safe... I am sure that will help the poverty stricken people in the Caribbean..and in the event that a DCL ship ends up way off course we can refer everyone to the Murphy house

 

[Anjelica]

Well... I am relieved to know that the people of St Louis are safe... I am sure that will help the poverty stricken people in the Caribbean..and in the event that a DCL ship ends up way off course we can refer everyone to the Murphy house

And your point?

 

[Rogillio]

And your point?

I would guess her point is this has nothing to do with the beggars in the Cozumel! And neither does the flyer posted in the boarder areas of Mexico. I've been all over Mexico and economies are vastly different on the US/Mexico boarder than they are in other parts of Mexico. Just as what goes on in St Louis is not what goes on in Detriot, Chicago or East LA.

This is exactly what I mentioned previously, if you are looking for a reason to not give, you can find one. But don't assume that what goes on in St Louis and TJ means that there are not needy people in Cozumel.

Let me just say this about Cozumel. If you can't bring yourself to give money to the beggars, at least buy their trinkets. Even if you don't need or want a bracelet, bottle of water or straw hat, buy one and throw it away later. You can pretty much bet that the thousands of dollars DCL pays in port fees, never filters down to the people who really need it.

 

[Anjelica]

I would guess her point is this has nothing to do with the beggars in the Cozumel! And neither does the flyer posted in the boarder areas of Mexico. I've been all over Mexico and economies are vastly different on the US/Mexico boarder than they are in other parts of Mexico. Just as what goes on in St Louis is not what goes on in Detriot, Chicago or East LA.

This is exactly what I mentioned previously, if you are looking for a reason to not give, you can find one. But don't assume that what goes on in St Louis and TJ means that there are not needy people in Cozumel.

Let me just say this about Cozumel. If you can't bring yourself to give money to the beggars, at least buy their trinkets. Even if you don't need or want a bracelet, bottle of water or straw hat, buy one and throw it away later. You can pretty much bet that the thousands of dollars DCL pays in port fees, never filters down to the people who really need it.

Giving an example of how one city tries to make a change in terms of poverty and begging is not off topic especially when people here spout off about people "giving at the office" as an excuse not to give to beggars.

Like I said before - coming on here and giving people a hard time about how they do give seemed harsh regardless of your passion. We all have things we are very passionate about but certainly doesn't give us the moral high ground to talk down to people.

 

[Rogillio]

Giving an example of how one city tries to make a change in terms of poverty and begging is not off topic especially when people here spout off about people "giving at the office" as an excuse not to give to beggars.

Like I said before - coming on here and giving people a hard time about how they do give seemed harsh regardless of your passion. We all have things we are very passionate about but certainly doesn't give us the moral high ground to talk down to people.

Still got your claws out eh? LOL

I was responding to your smart alex coment "and your point?" with the little "I'm cluess" icon. His/her point was obvious and it was obvious your were trying to be funny at his/her expense.

I never claimed to have the moral high ground....I'm just arguing for giving money to beggars and you're making snide comments.

 

[TheWog]

Well, let's just kill 'em! Becuase maybe if they don't get that next hit of herione, they might just die from the DTs! Unless you've been addicted to drugs, how can you possibly know what they are going thru? If they don't get a few dollars from you, maybe they will just have to sell their body into sexual perversion to 'earn' the money for their next hit! But that's ok becuase now you can go home and feel good that you did you part to 'ween that addict' from their addiciton! If it were your daughter out on the street, would you rather some stranger give her some money or would you rather she got it from her pimp or some perverted trick? What if it was your brother who witnessed his best friend get his head blown off in Iraq and now can't seem to find the will to go on? "Tough love" is often an excuse to cover ones lask of compassion and/or stinginess.

A phrase from this thread that was used several times just keeps running through my head: "....don't give them anything, it just encourages them!!"

OMG! We certainly don't want to encourage these beggars! The last thing they need is encouragement! We should give them stern/dirty looks, avert our eyes, act like we don't see them and do our best to discourage them! How dare they interrupt our tour of their poverty ridden community by asking for money from us!! Maybe if we kicked them as we passed by they would stop coming out to hound us! They need to know that Americans are not push-overs! We earned our prosperity and we don't just give it to lazy, shiftless beggars who won't work for a living!

Sorry for the harsh sarcasm but I'm embarrassed for America at the snobbish elitism indicated in this thread.

~Mike

Are you kidding? My two dollars is going to kill someone. I didn't put them in that state. You are correct in we not knowing what brought someone to this point in life, but it is not up to me to support the habit that will kill them eventually, whether they have that next hit or not. I have enough of addiction in my family to know what happens, why it happens and what the consequences are. I do not feel the overwhelming need to give away my money to someone who will not appreciate it and to assist them in furthering the desctruction of their lives. What about their family members who would love for them to stop doing the drugs. They have probably asked them for years to stop and would be very mad at the people who continually provide them with the resources to further the destruction. I'm sorry if you feel every person in this world is entitled to something and will only survive on the backs of others, but there comes a point where people need to make their own decisions. I have given money to homeless people, but never have I felt obligated to do so or bad if I decided not to.

 

[Anjelica]

Still got your claws out eh? LOL

I was responding to your smart alex coment "and your point?" with the little "I'm cluess" icon. His/her point was obvious and it was obvious your were trying to be funny at his/her expense.

I never claimed to have the moral high ground....I'm just arguing for giving money to beggars and you're making snide comments.

Responding to ones obnoxious comments with a snide one is really all you can do now isn't it?

You aren't "just arguing" for giving money to beggars. You BELITTLE folks who don't agree with giving money to beggars. You jumped on people right away when they didn't agree with your stance yet when someone questions why you seem to have a chip on your shoulder you want to start throwing out assumptions, etc.

I find your comments really unnecessary when you start to attack folks. If you had come on here and basically stated your opinions in a non-attacking way it would be a non-issue.

 

[m&m's mom]

Well... I am relieved to know that the people of St Louis are safe... I am sure that will help the poverty stricken people in the Caribbean..and in the event that a DCL ship ends up way off course we can refer everyone to the Murphy house

Wow! That was very rude! The anominity of the internet help you much there?

 

[Rogillio]

Responding to ones obnoxious comments with a snide one is really all you can do now isn't it?

You aren't "just arguing" for giving money to beggars. You BELITTLE folks who don't agree with giving money to beggars. You jumped on people right away when they didn't agree with your stance yet when someone questions why you seem to have a chip on your shoulder you want to start throwing out assumptions, etc.

I find your comments really unnecessary when you start to attack folks. If you had come on here and basically stated your opinions in a non-attacking way it would be a non-issue.

I don't accept your forensic analysis and characterization of my posts. You got offended and have been on the attack ever since. I find your comments and language intentionally inflamatory.

I spoke in generalities that I did not feel giving to organized charities is a good reason to turn your back on people in need right in front of your eyes. Obviously you think it does. If you think that belittles you, I am sorry. Personally I think people who have a heart to give to organized charaties are MUCH more likely to be the ones to give to someone with their hand out asking for food money. But that's just my opinion.

BTW, you've already use the "you've got a chip on your shoulder" dig once. Please try to come up with new barbs.

 

[Rogillio]

Wow! That was very rude! The anominity of the internet help you much there?

Pot/kettle. In only two sentences too!

 

[m&m's mom]

Pot/kettle. In only two sentences too!

That is just funny.

 

[wcw57]

M-I-C

see you real soon....


K-E-Y


Why? because we like.....uh, tolerate......uh, disagree.......ummmm....HATE YOU


NOW, NOW, FOLKS.....play nice or the MOD fairy will take away your pixie dust privileges........

 

[Rogillio]

Are you kidding? My two dollars is going to kill someone. I didn't put them in that state. You are correct in we not knowing what brought someone to this point in life, but it is not up to me to support the habit that will kill them eventually, whether they have that next hit or not. I have enough of addiction in my family to know what happens, why it happens and what the consequences are. I do not feel the overwhelming need to give away my money to someone who will not appreciate it and to assist them in furthering the desctruction of their lives. What about their family members who would love for them to stop doing the drugs. They have probably asked them for years to stop and would be very mad at the people who continually provide them with the resources to further the destruction. I'm sorry if you feel every person in this world is entitled to something and will only survive on the backs of others, but there comes a point where people need to make their own decisions. I have given money to homeless people, but never have I felt obligated to do so or bad if I decided not to.

Well I understand your thinking....I don't agree with it, but I understand. There is a fine line between enabling and helping. I've dealt with enough addition to believe that once someone is on the streets begging for money, they have passed the proverbial 'bottom' that was supposed to drive them to rehab. It is my opinion what they need at this point is to survive long enough until they can get real help. It's hard for people to understand that the addict does not necessary need or want food. That is why you sometimes get the violent reaction when you offer to by them a meal. They don't want what you think they need! Most of the time they just want something to help them make it thru the day....that might be a bottle of wine or it might be food or it might be herione or crack. They will get it one way or the other. Either they will steal, rob or sell their body...but they will get what their body tells them they 'need' to survive.

 

[Rogillio]

M-I-C

see you real soon....


K-E-Y


Why? because we like.....uh, tolerate......uh, disagree.......ummmm....HATE YOU


NOW, NOW, FOLKS.....play nice or the MOD fairy will take away your pixie dust privileges........

Very nice! Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Anjelica]

I don't accept your forensic analysis and characterization of my posts. You got offended and have been on the attack ever since. I find your comments and language intentionally inflamatory.

I spoke in generalities that I did not feel giving to organized charities is a good reason to turn your back on people in need right in front of your eyes. Obviously you think it does. If you think that belittles you, I am sorry. Personally I think people who have a heart to give to organized charaties are MUCH more likely to be the ones to give to someone with their hand out asking for food money. But that's just my opinion.

BTW, you've already use the "you've got a chip on your shoulder" dig once. Please try to come up with new barbs.

Never once did I say that giving to organized charities is a good reason to turn your back on people in need right in front of your eyes - not sure where you got that from.

The "chip on a shoulder" - not a dig just an observation. Not attacking you in the least - I'm sorry if you feel that its coming off that way.