Major systematic problems with Oceaneer's club

[Desi]

We were on the Magic 11/14-21.
Our almost 4 yr old son, did not care for the club.
*I noticed everything that's already been mentioned.*
My son is shy. Does not care for strangers. But will go to a pretty girl
caretaker who shows him attention in a second.
He only stayed when when we went to Palo's for dinner and when we went ashore in Cozamel. He was in there a total of 4 times, If not for Palo ressies, I wouldn't have put him in at all. Everytime we came back to get him he was either watching cartoons unsupervised or if something was going on, on the little stage he was sitting with a councelor. He did not beg to stay or show any interest in staying past the time when we came to pick him up. I noticed when crafts were done, he never had one. It was because if they don't do it on their own, noone helps them. Did not see any councelor who went out of their way to help the shy or scared child. Alot of crowd control. Maybe when we go back on the Wonder in 2 yrs he'll be better, plus he'll have our grandson who's the same age to keep him company. We'll see.

 

[KSandbergFL]

Yesterday in the mail, we received a letter from DCL regarding changes to the kid's club format on the Wonder. The letter doesn't mention the Magic, so for now I'll assume this just applies to the 3-nt/4-nt cruises on the Wonder.

The letter says this (paraphrased):
Beginning in mid-December aboard the Wonder, children in the kid's clubs will be able to select only the events and activities they would like to participate in, without being restricted by age group.... Kids are free to select activities based on their interests, regardless of age. Also, if you have multiple children and they want to participate in the same activity together -- that's possible too!....

...Kids will be able to select their own adventures, from the daily Personal Navigator, just like adults.

This sounds like great news to us -- we only used the kids club once (in 4 cruises), because we didn't like the "one size fits all" structure. This might tempt us to use the kids clubs again on our next cruise (Jan 2010 - 63 days, yay!). We'll see how it works out.

There is a discussion thread here:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2334294

For those who might still be following this thread, another DIS'er found this recent review of the new kids club format on the Wonder. The reviewer has an 8yr old and a 3yr old, and reports a very positive experience.

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=1064

 

[beccawes7471]

We noticed the same things as most on this post on our 3 day wonder 4 years ago. Our ds was almost 6 at the time. He enjoyed himself and still remembers it as fun but what we noticed evertime we would pick him up or drop him off was pretty much chaos. It seemed to us way too many children for the number of counselers. Once when we went to pick him up they couldn't find him and tried telling us several times that "maybe you picked him up already" dh and i really started to panic while we all started looking for him. Turns out he was playing on the rope climbing thing by the slide. He wasn't hinding or anything. After that my husband and I were very uncomfortable with letting him go back and we really didn't need for him to go anyway, so we had our own fun as a family. It was so loud in there that I could def see it as overwhelming to a child, esp if they were not in school or daycare. We didn't complain, figured we were being overly concerned, glad you did and maybe they will make some changes. I really think Disney does such an amazing job with so much other stuff that the kids clubs would be top notch, more like Club Med is was I'm hoping they'll get to someday. Of course by then my little ones prob won't be so little anymore

 

[PizzieDuster]

I'm wondering if the CM's are better on one ship than the other?
It seems like there are more complaints about the Wonder than the Magic. Perhaps that is because on the Wonder children are there for less days and therefore some of the CM's have more of an "I don't care" attitude as they know they be able to connect with the children. !

I am curious about this too. Wonder v. Magic

 

[2littlestitches]

Let me preface this by saying, I'm a HUGE lover of all things Disney.....member of D23, annual passholder at WDW, frequent cruiser, been to Disneyland in CA as well as Paris.......but I'm not in love with the clubs on the ships.

I don't know....I just don't get that warm, fuzzy, feeling I was expecting from Disney in the clubs. My kids have been in both clubs, mainly because we wanted to go to Palo. The Oceaneers Club was SO chaotic when my kids were there......kids pushing, shoving, bullying on the slide. The castmembers not doing much about it. I didn't like it.

We also had an incident one time where they didn't find our son right away when we came to pick him up. It was scary. He was in the bathroom crying for seemingly a LONG time. Nobody noticed, apparently. Wow, we didn't like that one at all!

Last week, we sailed on the Wonder and my kids went to the Oceaneers Lab for about an hour and a half while we dined at Palo. There were no problems per se, but my kids both had NO interest in going back. They are 7 and 9 now, so old enough to voice their opinions and tell me what's going on. I actually hated leaving them there.....and almost didn't want to go to Palo because of it. But they were having a Wii tournament, and my kids like Wii. They agreed to go for just a little while so we could go to dinner. My oldest son said he really didn't want to go back there anymore. He just wasn't impressed. And we cancelled another reservation we had for Palo brunch, simply because we didn't want to send them there.

One other thing I noticed on just about all the Disney cruises I've been on is a LOT of parents wanting to just ditch their kids in the club. And for long periods of time. I find this sad. It seems there is a mentality that "this is my vacation too" or maybe parents just are sick of being with their kids all day, I don't know. But this definitely happens a lot. I've seen it OVER AND OVER AGAIN! And I think this might be part of the problem with the clubs. Maybe the kids who are being put in there all day have other family issues, or parents ditching them. So they might not be the nicest, most balanced kids in the world, KWIM? I hate to say this.....I SO love Disney, but it is sadly true.

Now having said all that, would I use the clubs on my next Disney cruise?? Maybe, but just so I could dine at the fabulous Palo. And maybe, because my kids are getting older and I'm not as worried about them as I was when they were 3 and 5. They can probably entertain themselves with the video games for an hour or so, and then I could come right back to get them. And they will probably be fine. But would they want to go back??? Probably not.

Having sailed several times, my advice to cautious parents like myself is that the castmembers are nice, but mostly your kid is going to have to fend for himself. My son went one time for a Flubber making session.....I came back only to find out he didn't get a turn in making the Flubber at all. Why??? Because he's not very outspoken and didn't complain loudly that they skipped his turn. Maybe it was sort of his fault, maybe it was the fault of the kids who took his turn, or maybe it was the castmembers who weren't paying enough attention to notice that he didn't get a turn at all! It was disappointing. So make sure your kid can speak up. Or make sure he or she is old enough (i.e. experience in school) to deal with such situations. I think the castmembers have good intentions, but things don't run as smoothly as you would think. The clubs, for us, are a place to take the kids, not some magical fairy-tale type of place. Do I think they are unsafe? Not really. Does our family love the clubs. No!

 

[TROSELL14843]

Pur kids just loved it, the people, the kids and we knew them by names in the end and tried to make an overseas friend well beyond our economic statuts, but hey we tried. they really did look forward to going there it wasnt a "dump" for us.

wow cant believe it was viewed as that for soem of you

 

[Ted C]

Yep, we've done five cruises on the Wonder and the clubs counselor's have been very hit or miss. In fact on one cruise I really got into it with one of the counselors which resulted in serious disciplinary actions from her manager. I won't go into detail but I can say a lot of them need to go back home and stay there. Interestingly, on that cruise the contracts were up for a lot of the counselors and they were heading back home to Australia. Many were not planning on coming back from what I was told. The prevailing attitude was those leaving really didn't care what happened to them. Their behavior really reminded me of high school in the way they socialized. They have a very serious responsibility. There's no room for not paying attention every moment.

Now I've had some outstanding experiences too especially in the nursery. In fact going on our second cruise was based on the treatment we received there. There were a few in the clubs that were good too but they got over shadowed by the bad seeds around them. It's a hard job but that's no excuse. It takes a special kind of person to work this job. It's not for everybody. Disney should pay close attention when policing this area to make sure the highest standards are being upheld.

Disney charges too much not to be top rate in every aspect ESPECIALLY when they're taking care of your children. My experience with the Liberty's child care recently topped Disney. The attitude and attention to detail was just much better.

YMMV

 

[Woody's Mommy]

OP, I have not been on the DIS board in quite some time, but I posted a thread about this problem last year when we went on our Disney Cruise. My son was 3 years old at the time and I was floored by the fact that so many people left their small children with complete strangers on a cruise ship. We attended the activities with him. I really thought my mind would be put at ease when I saw how the CMs interacted with the kids but it was the total opposite. My husband and I couldn't believe the kids to CM ratio. Preschools would be shut down for having that many kids and not enough adults. You are dead on when you talked about the bullying and the other parents. It was also troublesome to see how different the CMs would act when they thought we weren't looking. We saw several of them sitting around on the tables not paying any attention to what the kids where doing. My son had fun but I wouldn't dare leave him in there to fend for himself at such a young age. I also made a very long comment on the card at the end of the cruise but I would be surprised if it did any good.

This being said, I would not let it keep me from booking another Disney Cruise. The overall experience was great and we (as a family) loved the Oceaneers Club. Would I recommend dropping your kids off there and going to Palo or to the Spa? No way!

 

[loveysbydesign]

Yikes....I can only hope that the kids clubs on the Dream will be better!

 

[BeautyFan]

I am sorry to hear of your bad experience and want to thank you for posting. Up til now I've only heard terrific reviews of the clubs and nursery. I am leaving for my first cruise next month, still plan on trying out the nursery for my 3-yr old to see if it's a good fit. I now realize that the club might not be right for her just yet. We may try to take her to the club while we are in attendance if we want to just check it out.

 

[Ted C]

Go and have fun, just pay attention. Here's the deal, it's not like anything "awful" happened. It 's just the feeling given the wrong circumstances something "could" happen and they wouldn't be prepared for it because they were in "high school" mode. I really feel it's a mistake to let the CM's get so "buddy- buddy" when they have such a huge responsibility. Part of the problem, as with all cruise ship employees, is they work them to death. If they're not counselors today, they're cleaning up Castaway Cay, etc... They get tired. Unlike truckers, pilots, and air traffic controllers who are forced to take breaks these people are not really regulated. We all know how hard it is to take care of kids, especially you Mothers. Without some kind of break it's easy to loose your focus even with your own kids. Throw in the fact these aren't their kids, and the fact they get little sleep due to to their schedule, partying, and other ship duties, and you have the inattention possibilities we're speaking of which also sometimes manifest into the I don't give a _____ attitude mentioned in various posts. They're also part time employees in a lot of cases which fuels the fire especially near the end of their contracts.

Moral of the story? We all love Disney but completely trusting everything Disney does, especially when it comes to our children, is probably not a good idea. Heck I don't even do that with our own personal babysitters. Just evaluate the situation daily, check in on them, and report anything you see amiss and all should be fine, just like you'd do at home.

 

[Raven9 Studios]

After reading some of the replies to my original post, I think I should clarify a few things ...

Let's be honest ... it doesn't take much effort or skill to entertain younger kids when you have a cool playground, Disney movies playing non-stop on the TV, character appearances, and scripted activities throughout the day. In fact, most kids would probably have a blast hanging out in the club even if all of the counselors were totally incompetent or not even present.

But how many of you parents out there would feel comfortable dropping off your child at the club if it was just a play area with no adult supervision? Most kids would still have a good time, sure, but it would hard to have a good time as a parent knowing a problem might come up and no counselor would be there to handle it.
I really have no motivation to follow up with DCL about my experience as many have suggested (although DCL did recently call to follow up, somewhat rudely, with the poor rating we gave on the comment card). If there had been only one or two problematic counselors or one specific incident, I might consider, but the problems I described are systematic and cannot be fixed by a DCL apology or superficial change to their policies so I really don't see the point.

THANK GOD I wasn't the only one who felt this way. This thread took forever to find. I wrote on my comment card this was the only negative and very disappointing part of my trip. I actually ended up staying with my son who is 3 in the kids club all 7 days when he got bored with the movies and pool areas. I have to say there is a limited few who were EXCELLENT with children and disney should have hired more like them not just any 18 yr old who thinks its cool to be working for disney.

I witness my son being GRABBED in the arm roughly and yelled at "WE SLIDE ON OUR BOTTOMS here not forward" Mind you he is 3, just turned 3 a simple hey we have to go down the slide on our bottoms would have been better then screaming at him. When he saw me he tried to wiggle from her and she said I AM TALKING TO YOU and wouldn't let go of his arm. So he took his free hand and swatted at her arm. She then screamed HE HIT ME we need to call his parents. I looked over where she could see me and said I am here and saw that whole thing. I suggested if she'd let go of his arm he would listen to her. She let go and then immediately changed her tone with him and asked him what was on his shirt. He quickly responded to her new tone and told her a lion.

My point is that was just one instance and one of many that I watched as a parent in the background. I saw other counselors grabbing children mostly 5 and under in inappropriate holds and grabbing them, talking down to them or loudly expressing that child's bad behavior. I def let the counselors know I was there even tho it wasn't my child involved.

I was shocked. I thought this was disney and that the staff would be incredible. My son cut his finger in the elevator and a night time groundskeeper came over and quickly startedjoking with jacob. He put a bandaid on him and got him smiling again. Another worker came over to see if he was ok. I looked at the men and told him they should be working in the club not swabbing the decks. They obvioiusly had kids and loved them.

I spent and knew I couldn't trust the staff in the club at that point in the 2 days I was just watching. I did see alot of parents pick up and go and drop kids off so they could go out. I know alot of the kids were upset wanting to spend time with their parents afterall it is vacation and that explained 90% of the actions for the kids 5 and under. It was WAY OVERCROWDED and maybe 4 adults to all those kids. I didn't like the fact they shut down the slides while wendy time was going on not all kids want to listen to a story at 9am in the morning.

Now my daughter who was 9 opposite. she went to the cooking school and loved the computers but she is an easy kid and low maintence. The older kids knew they could play video games or experiment or see goofy or whatever but way easier for some 18 yr old to manage when all they have to do is watch instead of interact.

There was 2 people who stood out for me in the club. I wish I could remember her name but she was on there level and enjoyed what she did. She was also a life guard in the pool area during the day and a young man named scott I think? He was like oh your kid remind me of myself when I was younger he's a great kid.

Those 2 people were the only saving grace to the kid clubs. The dining staff and other staff I met seemed to understand kids sooo much more then those chose to be working in the clubs. I hope this changes soon or I wont take my kids on a disney cruise again till they are both older.. which is sad.

 

[Ted C]

Let me put it in perspective, how many of the counselors have kids? Pretty much sums it up...

I'm sorry you had a similar experience. If she'd have grabbed my kids arm, poop would have hit the fan.

These are just a bunch of Australian kids, for the most part, on a college program with very basic training and no REAL experience having or dealing with children. There were a few excellent ones too, but not enough to offset or overcome the bad ones. Sad thing is you could tell the good ones new this too...

Disney, listen up.

 

[Raven9 Studios]

Let me put it in perspective, how many of the counselors have kids? Pretty much sums it up...

I'm sorry you had a similar experience. If she'd have grabbed my kids arm, poop would have hit the fan.

These are just a bunch of Australian kids, for the most part, on a college program with very basic training and no REAL experience having or dealing with children. There were a few excellent ones too, but not enough to offset or overcome the bad ones. Sad thing is you could tell the good ones new this too...

Disney, listen up.

Disney listen up is right but who do we contact? I would love to send this link to someone who WOULD do something about it. I thought as a travel agent and knowing the 23rd was the only cruise they offer for us to book using our rate that everything would be top notch especially the clubs considering our impact on outside clients etc. I also thought the comment card would mean something which is why I took the time to express my gratitude to our wait staff and to fergy our room mgr.

I have NOT received any kind of contact in regards to my comment nor have I been able to find a link to anywhere that it would matter to write too.

 

[loveysbydesign]

It's a shame that Disney doesn't realize that cm's who deal with children non-stop need a break. I have been teaching/caring for children for over 15 years and as much as I LOVE children I still need a break now and then. We were booked on the Wonder for this Nov. and bumped it to the Dream in May 2011. I can only hope that the cm's on the Dream aren't as worn, tired and irritated by children as the ones many of you have encountered. Disney needs to get with the program!
Also wanted to add that I think this thread should be cross-posted in the regular Disney cruise forum for other dis'ers to read!

 

[Raven9 Studios]

Just started a new thread on the boards linking this since this thread took forever to find and as a parent I wish I had read prior to booking. Thank you to who started this

 

[poohbear luvs grumpy]

My family was on the wonder in May 2008. Over all the club experience was great. We only used the clubs for specific activities that the kids wanted to do. The only situation we had was with our five year old. We dropped her off and my husband asked what time the activity would be over we were told in 45 minutes so we left and my husband had planned on going back to get her in 40 minutes (he hates to be late for anything). Five minutes before he planned to leave my sister came knocking on the door and told us that they were taking her to dinner we never expected anyone else to pick her up so we didn't put my sister on to check her out. My sister told them that my daughter was supposed to eat with the family but they said they only contact the parent when the child requests it. My husband ran to find her but when he asked where she had been taken he received incorrect information. He finally found the group she was in and was able to get her so she could eat with the family. So even using the clubs for short activities can still cause some problems and if you are traveling with a group put every responsible adults name on the list to check out your child.

 

[kobesam]

I totally agree 100%. My DD was 4 on our cruise and I thought the kids club was just a glorified daycare and experienced the same as was previously posted. This was my 5th cruise (1st with Disney) and I was extremly disapointed. But beware of the Disney cruise lovers I had posted something negative before regarded the kids club and was completly slammed by Disney lovers.

 

[LMCmom25kids]

OMG.... I just read every single post on this thread and I had an idea.... Just wondering if anyone out there thinks this would accomplish anything positive? Hopefully it wouldn't back fire on us. I thought perhaps I could speak with someone....(not sure whom as this will be our 1st Disney cruise. It would def have to be someone in charge of the counselors) BEFORE we take our children 6,10,11 to any of the clubs, labs etc... Let them know about some of the postings here on this thread.... maybe even go as far as to have a few printed off. (not just the negative ones, but the positive ones too.) Tell them that we are VERY concerned about the CM to child ratio in the younger groups. Our daughter will have just turned 6 one month before our cruise. She's pretty shy... not sure she would speak up if her turn to make flubber (or anything else) got over looked or taken by an overly aggressive child. I can not stand to see this! From my experience, it tends to happen due to the parents of this kind of child also being overly aggressive. (Can anyone say: Attention Hogs?) LOL. Trying to lighten the mood here. I have no problem letting them know that I as well as others in our family... will be stopping by from tiime to time to "observe." I would be very nice about it of course. I would never talk down to them as I know that will get us no where. They could also possibly have an attitude and could( in a worse case scenerio) take it out on our child. (Yes, I have thought of this.) Anyway.... my point here... just to re-cap is to KINDLY and ever so delicately, let them know I'm just a concerned parent just like all the rest.... and that I'm not really thrilled with the postings that I have seen here on the boards. I have read the same thing over and over again.... child to adult ratio is not making any of us parents "Disney Happy." We are not the kind of parents that would dump our kids off just to get rid of them.... After all, it's a FAMILY VACATION! I WANT to spend time with my kids.... and I'm a stay at home mother. Sure there are times that I need a break cuz my kids got on my nerves.... but myself and my husband want FAMILY memories of our Disney Cruise.... not just memories of he and I getting drunk at the bar and having a so called blast! We are not big drinkers, but we will no doubt have a Bahama Mama or two. Can't wait for our cruise. I'm keeping my fingers crossed as well as praying for great weather and cast members! Opinions please...

 

[Raven9 Studios]

OMG.... Anyway.... my point here... just to re-cap is to KINDLY and ever so delicately, let them know I'm just a concerned parent just like all the rest.... and that I'm not really thrilled with the postings that I have seen here on the boards. I have read the same thing over and over again.... child to adult ratio is not making any of us parents "Disney Happy." We are not the kind of parents that would dump our kids off just to get rid of them.... After all, it's a FAMILY VACATION! I WANT to spend time with my kids.... and I'm a stay at home mother. Sure there are times that I need a break cuz my kids got on my nerves.... but myself and my husband want FAMILY memories of our Disney Cruise.... not just memories of he and I getting drunk at the bar and having a so called blast! We are not big drinkers, but we will no doubt have a Bahama Mama or two. Can't wait for our cruise. I'm keeping my fingers crossed as well as praying for great weather and cast members! Opinions please...

That was my whole point in bringing attention to this. I was hoping to get feedback that MAYBE just MAYBE this was just isolated instances. My concern was def the ratios. There was always more counselors in the lab and the vibe in there was much less chaotic but alot of that has to do with the way it is set up. You have areas for video/lab/crafts/computers and a play area in the middle for story. Its set up very well. I witnessed counselors playing video games with the kids and talking to them. I was told as anyone is that they are welcome to come and play and observe at anytime and they welcome it.

Club has too many little ones at one time and by shutting down areas forcing all to do one activity is bound to have reactions. Kids feeling dropped off or left behind also adds to that. The main lady in the club was AWESOME she is which one who said to me it is really crazy right now in here lots of kids but later this evening or first thing in the morning there isn't as many kids many 10 or so. At that point there was well over 45 kids in there and only 4 or 5 counselors which one is on the computers checking in and one is stationed at the top of the slide. one by the bathrom so that leaves 2 which were in the computer area one playing video games and the other starting up bingo.

So think about the fact that 5 kids were playing bingo and maybe 4 playing the video that left over 30 kids running around with adults in sight but not interacting. I am just suggesting bring a few more in the room especially with the little ones which is why there are state guidelines in place.
Grabbing a child and jerking them to attention is UNCALLED for. Some of the other instances also make me worry alittle. I love the parents on here who talked to the counselors or advise of special situations. I am a disney fan LOVE disney and believe in his dream. I had a great time and the staff was excellent especially the servers. This is not a bashing to disney so please quit taking it as that. Trying to improve an area involving your kids is a GREAT thing. Imagine you come back from palo and you look over and someone has grabbed your child's arm and talking to them. Your child looks scared. Is it really worth the blindness because it has a disney name? No. I think the clubs are a ton of fun but need more employees in there so maybe the few that are in there don't feel so overwhelmed. Maybe they welcome parents in there so maybe it will help get some adults in there since not every daycare/babysitting situation is perfect. And no the employees do NOT all have education degrees its a job/intern. I did go by the nursery and wish I could have put him in there. They had pluto in there and 3 employees when there was only 2-3 kids in there. It was quiet and everyone was laughing. I think the nursery deserves an award.