It Never Ends

[robinb]

Until you have been the victim of this time of crime, you really don't know how it feels, you can have compassion all you want, talk all you want, but you HAVE NO CLUE what it is like.. We lost everything, and boy let me tell you we had a fabulous business. Two young drug addicted youths took that away.. I tried for months, I couldn't do it.. I saw them, we had no option.. Had I had a gun (NEVER WOULD I) I would have never had the time to pull it out.. And perhaps my innocent customers would have been caught in the middle of all this.. I did seek some therapy, it did nothing.

{{hugs}} It's terrifying isn't it?

 

[luvsJack]

Nobody needs a gun.

Depends on your definition of "need" and "gun". Are you talking about hand guns or any gun?

If someone uses their gun to obtain food, which is a need; does that make the gun then a need?


Also, wasn't there a high school boy that went on a spree recently with a knife? Stabbing several people?

Laws against having guns do not work. That is apparent in the cities that have/had those laws. It simply does not work. If you could zap all guns out of existence, maybe, but the way it is now, if a person wants to obtain a gun they can. And a person wanting to kill a bunch of people and commit suicide is not too worried about obtaining it legally.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Depends on your definition of "need" and "gun". Are you talking about hand guns or any gun?

If someone uses their gun to obtain food, which is a need; does that make the gun then a need?


Also, wasn't there a high school boy that went on a spree recently with a knife? Stabbing several people?

Laws against having guns do not work. That is apparent in the cities that have/had those laws. It simply does not work. If you could zap all guns out of existence, maybe, but the way it is now, if a person wants to obtain a gun they can. And a person wanting to kill a bunch of people and commit suicide is not too worried about obtaining it legally.

I think that last point is one everyone needs to understand. Obviously, I stand at one extreme of this issue. But those at the opposite extreme need to recognize that even if you could change my mind, you simply cannot legislate 300 million firearms out of existence. And guns are durable goods. One from 100 years ago with proper maintenance is still probably working today. What's more, there haven't been any significant advances in firearms since late in the 19th Century. It's unlikely much more will change going forward.


So, whatever plan you may want to sell to "my side", one must keep the above in mind.

 

[Lanshark]

People who are pro gun will argue anything.. A beer, a pool anything.. I get it. You want to argue for your rights... I am not American, but i DO THINK those should be re evaluated.. Those were meant for centuries ago, not today..

I am an American and I totally agree

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Laws against having guns do not work.

How do you know that? There is no state in this country that says you cannot own a gun.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

How do you know that? There is no state in this country that says you cannot own a gun.

Chicago has some of the toughest gun control laws in the country and some of the highest gun violence rates. Salt Lake City has some of the most lenient gun control laws and the lowest gun violence rates. Just making the law does NOTHING. You have to change the culture. And, people will turn this around and say that Chicago might have strict gun control laws but surrounding cities make it easier for them to get guns. That does little to help their point. People will always be able to get guns. Always. Until you change the culture, you will have gun violence. The laws won't change that.

 

[luvsJack]

How do you know that? There is no state in this country that says you cannot own a gun.

You can own a gun in any state but there are places with stricter gun laws than others, and not a lower violent crime rate.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

Nobody needs a beer.

Or television. Or internet. Or a cell phone. Or candy bars. Or Coca Cola. Or a swimming pool. We could do this all day.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Nobody needs a beer.

Bite your tongue....I'll give up my gun but don't go near my beer.

 

[Jennasis]

So these two Las Vegas lunatics walked up to two ARMED policemen eating lunch in a restaurant with (presumably) their weapons not concealed and shot them...and the good people of Texas think that carrying guns (long, short, whatever) will deter the nut jobs?

That's sum fuzzy logic right thar.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

So these two Las Vegas lunatics walked up to two ARMED policemen eating lunch in a restaurant with (presumably) their weapons not concealed and shot them...and the good people of Texas think that carrying guns (long, short, whatever) will deter the nut jobs?

That's sum fuzzy logic right thar.

The truly nuts are the exception rather than the rule. The hindrance is more toward the criminal element.

That said, 2 nuts attacking armed citizens will certainly take a few down. But, that's where it stops. Luby's takes everyone being unarmed.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

So these two Las Vegas lunatics walked up to two ARMED policemen eating lunch in a restaurant with (presumably) their weapons not concealed and shot them...and the good people of Texas think that carrying guns (long, short, whatever) will deter the nut jobs?

That's sum fuzzy logic right thar.

Do you think outlawing guns will deter the nut jobs? That seems like fuzzy logic to me.

I don't know of anyone who thinks that a gun will stop a nut job from acting. I know plenty who think it will help to protect and save lives, though. You have to look no farther than the Charles Whitman shootings to see where they get this logic from.



Personally, I think that things like this need to spark discussions about what is wrong with medical care for those with mental issues, rather than gun control. The guy in LA who killed many with his car and stabbed many others before opening fire shows that crazy people who want to kill will find a way to do just that - gun or no gun. What we need to do is treat the disease and not the symptoms.

 

[luvsJack]

An insane person who is intent on killing will kill or at the very least obtain a way to kill. I agree with Jenna, this should be more about the health care for mental illness than about gun control.

Many shooters are, in fact, stopped by an armed citizens. Doesn't make the death count 0 but makes it a whole lot lower than it could have been.

 

[RadioNate]

Depends on your definition of "need" and "gun". Are you talking about hand guns or any gun?

If someone uses their gun to obtain food, which is a need; does that make the gun then a need?


Also, wasn't there a high school boy that went on a spree recently with a knife? Stabbing several people?

Laws against having guns do not work. That is apparent in the cities that have/had those laws. It simply does not work. If you could zap all guns out of existence, maybe, but the way it is now, if a person wants to obtain a gun they can. And a person wanting to kill a bunch of people and commit suicide is not too worried about obtaining it legally.

Nor are they particularly worried about someone else with a gun killing them….

 

[luvsJack]

Nor are they particularly worried about someone else with a gun killing them….

But if someone with a gun killed or injured them, it may stop them from killing others.

School shooting in my state, kid shot several at the high school and then walked out headed to the jr. high. Assistant Principal went to his truck and got his gun. No more kids were killed that day.

 

[EMode]

People who are pro gun will argue anything.. A beer, a pool anything.. I get it. You want to argue for your rights... I am not American, but i DO THINK those should be re evaluated.. Those were meant for centuries ago, not today..

In 2004, after ten years of owning our family business, I was the victim of an armed robbery.. 2:30pm it was... My husband had just left with my young children.. I thank God for this EVERY DAY.....

They were caught later on.. Both guns were loaded.. I gave them the money obviously, my life was worth more to me.. However, we sold the business months later, for virtually a song. I remain, to this day, terrified of guns, ski masks, tattoos on necks.. I was 34 years old, and all that went through my head was my babies had left minutes earlier, and they may have been killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Until you have been the victim of this time of crime, you really don't know how it feels, you can have compassion all you want, talk all you want, but you HAVE NO CLUE what it is like.. We lost everything, and boy let me tell you we had a fabulous business. Two young drug addicted youths took that away.. I tried for months, I couldn't do it.. I saw them, we had no option.. Had I had a gun (NEVER WOULD I) I would have never had the time to pull it out.. And perhaps my innocent customers would have been caught in the middle of all this.. I did seek some therapy, it did nothing..

My heart goes out to all these victims.. It breaks my heart, and I often have to stop reading...

I know exactly what its like, and I'm still pro gun.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

I'm sorry you went through that, but I really think it only proves the point that you cannot disarm criminals.

I agree. Also, this was posted:

Two young drug addicted youths took that away..

I'm assuming this means that the poster believes that drugs played a role in what happened. Perhaps, while we are banning guns to keep this sort of thing from happening, we should also ban drugs. Oh wait...


My point is, you cannot stop bad things from happening by banning the tool used. Criminals are criminals. Crazy people are crazy people. Laws don't tend to deter these people.

 

[EMAW_KSU]

People who are pro gun will argue anything.. A beer, a pool anything.. I get it. You want to argue for your rights... I am not American, but i DO THINK those should be re evaluated.. Those were meant for centuries ago, not today..

In 2004, after ten years of owning our family business, I was the victim of an armed robbery.. 2:30pm it was... My husband had just left with my young children.. I thank God for this EVERY DAY.....

They were caught later on.. Both guns were loaded.. I gave them the money obviously, my life was worth more to me.. However, we sold the business months later, for virtually a song. I remain, to this day, terrified of guns, ski masks, tattoos on necks.. I was 34 years old, and all that went through my head was my babies had left minutes earlier, and they may have been killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Until you have been the victim of this time of crime, you really don't know how it feels, you can have compassion all you want, talk all you want, but you HAVE NO CLUE what it is like.. We lost everything, and boy let me tell you we had a fabulous business. Two young drug addicted youths took that away.. I tried for months, I couldn't do it.. I saw them, we had no option.. Had I had a gun (NEVER WOULD I) I would have never had the time to pull it out.. And perhaps my innocent customers would have been caught in the middle of all this.. I did seek some therapy, it did nothing..

My heart goes out to all these victims.. It breaks my heart, and I often have to stop reading...

Why did you have to sell your business?

 

[penn19]

I saw that one of the victims confronted the gunman in Walmart but didn't realize his wife was with him and of course armed and shot him. So what good does it do for "everyone to be armed"? I don't know what the answer is. I wish I did. But, what is going to take for all this to STOP!? And the worse thing is that it seems like we are all immune to it. Oh, another shooting. Ho hum.

 

[Colleen27]

Our instructor was a police chief. He even told us when he stops someone if they hand over their CPL along with their driver's license he knows he hasn't stopped some crazy person with a gun. You have to go through a background check and you can't have felonies, mental issues, etc. in order to get your CPL.

That's pretty naive. My father had a CPL for a very long time despite mental health problems (if you don't seek treatment there's no record for a background check to turn up!) and association with a known criminal organization.

Actually, the Supreme Court recently overruled that statute, which was handguns only IIRC. But yes, it was pretty ineffective to say the least.

Local gun control always will be. So long as you merely have to cross city or state lines to obtain a weapon there's no impact at all. But that isn't an effective argument against broader gun control. The vast majority of illegally owned weapons in this country were purchased legally and then stolen or re-sold on the black market.

The comparison to drugs isn't any more apt - guns take up a lot more room and show up on even cursory inspection, while drugs are compact and more easily concealed in other substances. Show me someone who can hide a gun in a can of baby formula to get through airport security or smuggle them in by having mules swallow them...

In a perfect world I'd be all for gun rights but in a perfect world background checks would be thorough and effective and there would be no such thing as an irresponsible gun owner. But in the real world the fact that a man like my father can own guns and you have idiots like that guy who dropped his handgun on a ride at Animal Kingdom, I do think the flow of firearms needs to be dramatically checked.