Is it "here we go again" !!!!!!with recent low attendance? update 3/11

[KMovies]

What business isn't cutting back?

It's like a movie theatre...

LOTR plays on multiple screens, largest theatres.

Attendance goes down.

You drop a couple of prints, move it to smaller theatres.

Attendance goes down.

You go to one print, small theatre.

Attendance goes down.

You play it a couple times a day.

Attendance goes down.

LOTR ends.

When attendance drops - you adjust park hours. you adjust entertainment. It only makes sense.

We want 100% of the Magic all of the time. We all do. It just can't happen with today's economy.

Even if attendance is the same - is spending the same? Not always - more local discounts may keep the attendance the same, but spending still dips.

Why keep the cart that sells ice cream open if it isn't selling enough ice cream. It isn't the only place to get ice cream.

If the park closes an hour early - big deal, if the lines are shorter, you still have plenty of time to do everything that you wanted to do in less time.

20 attractions in 9 hours
20 attreactions in 10 hours

Gee - what day is more enjoyable. If the extra hour was spent in lines, it wouldn't be that day.

If you want longer hours - go in the summer - take the heat - take the lines - buy more Coke to make it through the day - and have great memories of your longer day at Disney.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

A few folks mentioned the Character Caravan... just a random tidbit... at the time, the CC was actually more popular, and well liked than Early Entry. It gave guests a more personal time to interact with the characters, and the kids especially loved that. I always loved when they'd come visit me on the Monorail platform... that was great. Or when Pluto came to catch a ride on my train. The memories

Early Entry is great, but all to often, I encounter folks who accidentally slept in (It's a vacation, you should sleep in anyways), and ended up missing it. The Caravan was available as late as 9:45... giving those folks plenty of time to take advantage of it.

All things considered, the Caravan (imho) was not a cutback, but rather the introduction of a different Resort Perk.

 

[All Aboard]

If the park closes an hour early - big deal, if the lines are shorter, you still have plenty of time to do everything that you wanted to do in less time.

I was at the Magic Kingdom today. During Early Entry I was able to do one attraction - it took me almost 50 minutes to get through Space Mountain. I arrived 5 minutes before 8:00am. Shortly thereafter, Pooh had a 90 minute queue, Space was nearly up to that in the afternoon. Splash was up to 60 minutes. Town Square was shoulder to shoulder when the characters were out with roughly 30 folks waiting for each. Oh the crowds were there, the lines certainly weren't short, and the park closed nice and early at 7:00pm.

 

[Another Voice]

You know, there may be many reasons to close a park for a day.

I wonder how the economics work out - is it better to have one park open with 30,000 guests and a second with 15,000 guests (both moderatly busy crowds for their respective park), or is it more economical to have the just one park open with 45,000 guests (making that park busy)?

Perhaps it's not so much the size of the crowd that matters as the cost structure they require...

 

[Atlantis~crystal]

OIY VEY!

 

[HB2K]

Originally posted by Another Voice
You know, there may be many reasons to close a park for a day.

I wonder how the economics work out - is it better to have one park open with 30,000 guests and a second with 15,000 guests (both moderatly busy crowds for their respective park), or is it more economical to have the just one park open with 45,000 guests (making that park busy)?

Perhaps it's not so much the size of the crowd that matters as the cost structure they require...

If the 45,000 all accept this and show up to the one park. It's a risky assumption I'm sure Ei$ner is oblivious to....

P.S. I'm sure there was sarcasm in your post AV. I was just astounded at how upper management thinks thier customers are all brainwashed and will go with whatever is demanded of them....

 

[crusader]

I was just astounded at how upper management thinks thier customers are all brainwashed and will go with whatever is demanded of them....

You mean like rush to the ee park or buy a furby or spend $130 for a pair of sneakers. Funny!

Not those Disney consumers though, they're much too smart for any marketing ploys. Magic and pixie dust are real!

 

[HB2K]

Originally posted by crusader
You mean like rush to the ee park or buy a furby or spend $130 for a pair of sneakers. Funny!

Not those Disney consumers though, they're much too smart for any marketing ploys. Magic and pixie dust are real!

No, I'm not referrencing pricing....I'm talking about a magic Kingdom customer buying EPCOT since it's open and MK isn't.

I don't think 100% of the MK customers will just take what's open. That's my point.

 

[raidermatt]

Kmovies- That LOTR analogy is just plain off. If one chooses to see LOTR at any point in its run, they get the entire movie...same as those that went opening weekend.

The don't shut the movie off 10 minutes early.

A few folks mentioned the Character Caravan... just a random tidbit... at the time, the CC was actually more popular, and well liked than Early Entry.

Again, Tyler, thanks for the info, but I really having a hard time reconciling this statement.

If EE was a big enough factor in resort bookings that WDW was forced to bring it back, why would they then discontinue the even more popular CC? After all, it was apparently a business decision to bring back EE...why would they then cut a CC program that was even more popular, and therfore, profitable?

Further, we know that Guest Relations received quite a few complaints about EE going away...judging by the lack of chatter about CC complaints, it would seem there are much fewer. Is that a misconception? Are there really just as many, or even more, complaints about CC going away than EE?

 

[airlarry!]

We want 100% of the Magic all of the time. . .It just can't happen with today's economy. . .If the park closes an hour early - big deal, if the lines are shorter, you still have plenty of time to do everything that you wanted to do in less time. . . .If you want longer hours - go in the summer

M. KMovies,

The cuts in hours, as documented by Friends of Full Day Parks goes well before any trouble with 'today's economy.'

During the busy season, which as a regular I am sure you know that from President's week/Mardi Gras through Easter is one of the busiest, there is no excuse for shorter hours, because for the most part, there are no shorter lines during this time.

And going in the summer? Comparatively speaking, there is less time there, too. More crowds, and the cutback in hours since way, way before 9/11 make it tough to understand your argument.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by raidermatt
Again, Tyler, thanks for the info, but I really having a hard time reconciling this statement.

If EE was a big enough factor in resort bookings that WDW was forced to bring it back, why would they then discontinue the even more popular CC? After all, it was apparently a business decision to bring back EE...why would they then cut a CC program that was even more popular, and therfore, profitable?

Further, we know that Guest Relations received quite a few complaints about EE going away...judging by the lack of chatter about CC complaints, it would seem there are much fewer. Is that a misconception? Are there really just as many, or even more, complaints about CC going away than EE?

The NUMBER ONE complaint that Disney has gotten in the past few years is not enough characters. That's why the Character Caravan was brought into place. As for why EE returned, and CC stopped... well... the only thing I can think of is that the Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Also... you are correct, Early Entry is a perk that draws people to Disney Resorts. Of course, that doesn't mean they'll actually get around to using it.

While EE may be a more sellable perk, the CC was more popular in actual attendance.

 

[raidermatt]

You mean like rush to the ee park or buy a furby or spend $130 for a pair of sneakers. Funny!

Not sure who's buying furbies at WDW for $130, but maybe I'm just out of the loop...

As for EE, since its included in their park admission and resort price, why shouldn't they take advantage of EE? That's taking advantage of what you paid for, not paying the same for less.

Not those Disney consumers though, they're much too smart for any marketing ploys. Magic and pixie dust are real!

Just like anything else, some are sheep and some are not. The sheep will flock to the Disney name no matter what, the rest look at the value they are getting.

 

[raidermatt]

As for why EE returned, and CC stopped... well... the only thing I can think of is that the Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

While EE may be a more sellable perk, the CC was more popular in actual attendance.

Ok, makes sense. Since the CC characters are in the lobby, its going to get a lot of spontaneous attendance, making it possible its more heavily attended. But the lack of "squeaks" at its demise, coupled with the impact when EE was taken away, makes it clear which has the higher value to guests.

 

[Another Voice]

Hmmmm.....

Actually the number one complaint is "you guys charge too much!!!", but that question doesn't make it onto all those PowerPoint presentations used in the budget meetings. What people really say, and what they say in answer to a structured quetionnaire, are very different things.

The sad "rumor" is that very little actual guest serveying is used to improve guest statifaction. But an awful lot of it gets used to justify why my budget cuts should be smaller than your budget cuts. When waging a corporate political battle you reach for all the ammo you can.

The chances of anyone actually answering the question: "Which do you prefer more, Early Entry or the Character Cavalcade" is really remote because that question was never asked. Instead vague responses to "would you like more opportunities to see the characters" (without any hint of the trade-offs involved) got graphed in multi-colored bullet points on meeting handouts across the property.

 

[dahess]

Maybe it's just my family planning a trip. Last time we went to WDW, parks closed at 7pm & there were major cut backs.

 

[All Aboard]

The funniest thing about the whole CC for EE thing is that while "You spoke and we listened and took it as a wakeup call" was the single deepest load of BS ever attempted to be delivered; it would have been absolutely dead-on accurate as a description of why it got reversed.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by gcurling
The funniest thing about the whole CC for EE thing is that while "You spoke and we listened and took it as a wakeup call" was the single deepest load of BS ever attempted to be delivered

I wouldn't say that. Guests wanted more characters. They asked for it. Disney responded. Character Caravan gave them that.

 

[All Aboard]

I WOULD say that. I guess I should not have neglected the other half of the message: "You spoke and we listened. Many of you weren't using EE and many of you said you wanted to see more characters. So, we took it as a wakeup call. Suprise Mornings have been replaced by a new kind of Magic. Now the characters you've come to love, come to you for a visit!"

What a downright patronizing (and quite honestly insulting) spin to put on such a thing.

How about, "Many of our guests were not using the resort pools and we sure have gotten a lot of complaints about the roughness of the toilet paper. So, we listened. We've shut down the resort pools and are now providing a new kind of Magic - Charmin in all the resort bathrooms!"

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by Another Voice
Actually the number one complaint is "you guys charge too much!!!", but that question doesn't make it onto all those PowerPoint presentations used in the budget meetings. What people really say, and what they say in answer to a structured quetionnaire, are very different things.

Yeah, but isn't that the number one complaint everywhere? How many top tourist destinations do you go to where you don't cringe at how much you have to spend for stuff? And honestly ... how much would someplace like Disney need to cut their prices for people to think it was significant? If Disney said, "Hey .... park passes are 5% lower this year!", that would be pretty major for a company like Disney. But there would still be a raft of complaints that started with "Oh ... wow ... big deal ... 5%." And it's not like the shareholders are clamoring, "Gee ... people think we charge too much. Let's cut prices." Honestly, it just doesn't happen. So, they go down to the next thing on the list, which is "More Characters." Or whatever.

The chances of anyone actually answering the question: "Which do you prefer more, Early Entry or the Character Cavalcade" is really remote because that question was never asked. Instead vague responses to "would you like more opportunities to see the characters" (without any hint of the trade-offs involved) got graphed in multi-colored bullet points on meeting handouts across the property.

But it's not like those in-park surveys are the only way that Disney is gathering information about what Guests want. There are focus groups and comment cards and other means of Guest feedback. Not to mention all the guest letters and Guest Relations complaints and comments and even the message board complaints or comments. Did you follow any of the threads that were online when Early Entry first went away? Do you think Disney doesn't read that stuff? The people who write those letters or leave those comments aren't reacting to a series of yes / no questions on a survey.

 

[airlarry!]

I see your point, M. Travis.

But I see it two ways.

One: People want to see more characters. Let's save some money, cut out EE, and give 'em characters at the resorts. They'll learn to love it, we can get out 10/10 again, and Cou$in Mike is happy!

Two: People want to see more characters. I'm worried that people won't want to come back if we cut out magical perks. Let's bring all those people who sleep in and miss out on EE (and maybe even skip a park that day or head to Seaworld or Universal) a van with characters right at their door...for free!

Hmm.....