I missed the memo as well Kevin...

[roomthreeseventeen]

Dawn... Great post. However, you aren't living on the $79, right? I assume most tables tip well. Disney serves a berry international population, and many people are not used to tipping. There may even be Americans who do not eat out much and may have no idea what to tip.

 

[Mmouse1026]

Dawn... Great post. However, you aren't living on the $79, right? I assume most tables tip well. Disney serves a berry international population, and many people are not used to tipping. There may even be Americans who do not eat out much and may have no idea what to tip.

No thank goodness I'm not living on my paycheck alone! How could you? I would say a few table tip well but those appear to be the exception not the rule. Sadly I've found on an average Disney guests tip 10% and yes the international folks tip less. But as a sever I've learned you have to take the good with the bad and pray at the end of the day it all works out. It's the nature of the business

 

[DisneyKevin]

Just please keep in mind that many of these servers work harder than anyone I know and do pay their bills with tips not a weekly paycheck.

Please understand that I am not begrudging anyone the opportunity to make a living.

I swear, I am not questioning whether or not a server deserves to be tipped or should be tipped.

My only question was "when did it change from the 15% I was brought up believing was the appropriate amount"?

And to reference the quote above.....

If you are working harder than anyone you know and are not making enough to survive, than it is time to find a profession with a higher pay scale that doesnt depend on the generosity of strangers.

As for getting a raise....with the price of food increasing and the suggested percentage jumping from 15 to 18% or 20 - 25%, it seems that tips should be higher.

Again....please understand that I'm not questioning whether or not a server should be tipped.

Just questioning the change.

 

[*NikkiBell*]

If you are working harder than anyone you know and are not making enough to survive, than it is time to find a profession with a higher pay scale that doesnt depend on the generosity of strangers.

This was my thinking as well.

 

[Mmouse1026]

Please understand that I am not begrudging anyone the opportunity to make a living.

I swear, I am not questioning whether or not a server deserves to be tipped or should be tipped.

My only question was "when did it change from the 15% I was brought up believing was the appropriate amount"?

And to reference the quote above.....

If you are working harder than anyone you know and are not making enough to survive, than it is time to find a profession with a higher pay scale that doesnt depend on the generosity of strangers.

As for getting a raise....with the price of food increasing and the suggested percentage jumping from 15 to 18% or 20 - 25%, it seems that tips should be higher.

Again....please understand that I'm not questioning whether or not a server should be tipped.

Just questioning the change.

I completely understand your questioning the change and I apologize if my response came off sounding accusing or otherwise. I was just putting some facts out there about what a server's actual pay is before a gratuity is considered. I suppose my point got lost in my ramblings. You can see now why I lurk instead of posting. My point was it doesn't really matter when it was changed or why because in my experience those recommendations don't come into play when most guests are deciding on a gratuity. In general the why or when or should it have changed debate is a pretty comical to me. I don't believe most people us those guidelines anyway. I am personally very lucky that I have the income I do and a husband with a full time job and rarely complain. Believe me another profession with better hours, easier work and a higher pay scale would be lovely but this is what I'm qualified to do at this point in my life and I do it well so it is what it is.

 

[juliebug1997]

Please understand that I am not begrudging anyone the opportunity to make a living.

I swear, I am not questioning whether or not a server deserves to be tipped or should be tipped.

My only question was "when did it change from the 15% I was brought up believing was the appropriate amount"?

And to reference the quote above.....

If you are working harder than anyone you know and are not making enough to survive, than it is time to find a profession with a higher pay scale that doesnt depend on the generosity of strangers.

As for getting a raise....with the price of food increasing and the suggested percentage jumping from 15 to 18% or 20 - 25%, it seems that tips should be higher.

Again....please understand that I'm not questioning whether or not a server should be tipped.

Just questioning the change.

Sadly, it's not always that easy. Recession?

I start with a 20% tip and work my up or down depending on how I feel it went. My brother was a server until he decided to quit his job and stay home to take care of my dad. I've heard the stories about bad customers.

 

[gretchenohar@hotmail]

If you are working harder than anyone you know and are not making enough to survive, than it is time to find a profession with a higher pay scale that doesnt depend on the generosity of strangers.

Yikes - a little harsh, no?
I can think of a few instances where this might be difficult, such as a single parent, someone recently widowed without previous work experience, an unemployed or underemployed person in our present economy....
I know you are a sensitive person, Kevin and I'm certainly not trying to inflame here - but some people don't have much choice in the matter.... And with the price of a college education these days, I shudder for our (collective) future...

 

[*NikkiBell*]

I am not Kevin, but I think I may understand where he is coming from...or my thinking regarding this comment. I believe it was meant as if you are in a position where your paycheck relies solely on a hit or miss (like a tip), then it might be better to find something that has a steady pay. In this way, you won't have to be concerned with whether or not a customer "likes" your service and will get paid regardless. I realize that the economy is rough out there, but positions in retail, for example, come to mind.

 

[WebmasterMike]

Kevin is giving the same advice that I have given to relatives and friends. Sometimes in life you must take a step back to take a step forward. I have done that. Yes it is hard, but with motivation, anything is possible.

But, back to the topic, gratuity...

A tip (also called a gratuity) is a voluntary extra payment made to certain service sector workers in addition to the advertised price of the transaction. Such payments and their size are a matter of social custom. Tipping varies among cultures and by service industry. Though by definition a tip is never legally required, and its amount is at the discretion of the patron being served, in some circumstances failing to give an adequate tip when one is expected is a serious faux pas, and may be considered very miserly, a violation of etiquette, or unethical. In some other cultures or situations, giving a tip is not expected and offering one would be considered at best odd and at worst condescending or demeaning. In some circumstances, such as with U.S. government workers, receiving of tips is illegal. Some restaurants require a tip, euphemistically called a gratuity, if many patrons are present at a table.

Restaurants
Tipping is customary in restaurants offering traditional table service. While the amount of a tip is ultimately at the discretion of the patron, the customary tip until the 1980s was from 10-15% of the total bill before tax, for good to excellent service, and since then has risen to 15-20% before tax. Tipping percentages may fall when the economy is poor.

 

[gretchenohar@hotmail]

NikkiBelle - I'm certain neither of you meant to imply any negativity in your posts. But, retail pays minimum wage - not nearly enough to support a family, either. I think that's why alot of people choose waitstaff positions - there is truly a possibility to make more money - but it's much more physically demanding, in most cases....
I've never worked as a waitperson, so I'm not speaking from experience - but 2 of my children put themselves through college that way.

 

[juliebug1997]

I am not Kevin, but I think I may understand where he is coming from...or my thinking regarding this comment. I believe it was meant as if you are in a position where your paycheck relies solely on a hit or miss (like a tip), then it might be better to find something that has a steady pay. In this way, you won't have to be concerned with whether or not a customer "likes" your service and will get paid regardless. I realize that the economy is rough out there, but positions in retail, for example, come to mind.

Where do you live because I have a lot of former students who are in college that needed summer jobs this year.

My dad always told me that a job is a job is a job and to never quit one unless you were starting another one. Of course he started working at the young age of 8.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I think probably a lot of hard working people at Disney are underpaid as well. But they stay for the love of working there.

 

[*NikkiBell*]

Where do you live because I have a lot of former students who are in college that needed summer jobs this year.

My dad always told me that a job is a job is a job and to never quit one unless you were starting another one. Of course he started working at the young age of 8.

I live in New Jersey. I have seen jobs at local stores and shops in the malls, food stores, and fast food chains.

I totally agree that one should not stop a job unless another is had. I never stated this in any of my replies. Instead, I was agreeing that sometimes one must look at the gains of a job and see if they are suitable. If not, one must look elsewhere to find something better. Once again, the economy is tough, but there are means to improve.

 

[paulasillars]

I wish things were like New Zealand. Give everyone a proper wage and no tipping is necessary. If you don't do your job, customers still have the right to complain.

Here in NZ, you give crap service, you run the complaints to your manager and run the risk of loosing your job if it continues. And although there is a minimum wage here, if you do a good job, you will be rewarded with a salary increase.

Of course wait staff here love you American tourists because you just can't help yourselves and tip anyway

I have to say, we always get excellent service when we dine out here. I can't think of a single occasion where I would have found anything to complain about.

Sadly I've found on an average Disney guests tip 10% and yes the international folks tip less.

When in the US, we have also found that as soon as a waiter hears our accent they expect us to give a poor tip so we don't get great service ... its a catch 22 situation ... then we don't leave a great tip which then enforces the perception that internationals don't tip well. We are always prepared to pay 15-20% if warranted.

I remember one cruise we did, the wait staff tripped over themselves to provide "exceptional" service to our American dining companions. They barely glanced at us and while we couldn't fault the service, they just didn't give us the same level of attentiveness they did for our fellow diners - I can only assume they thought we wouldn't tip or would give them a poor tip.

 

[pittsburghmarc]

Let me bring this down a little. Like other threads, this has taken a different turn.

I was curious what a table server's sales are on an average day. Know the sales, estimate the tip income...minus tip outs to support staff.

 

[SamSam]

When in the US, we have also found that as soon as a waiter hears our accent they expect us to give a poor tip so we don't get great service ... its a catch 22 situation ... then we don't leave a great tip which then enforces the perception that internationals don't tip well. We are always prepared to pay 15-20% if warranted.

I remember one cruise we did, the wait staff tripped over themselves to provide "exceptional" service to our American dining companions. They barely glanced at us and while we couldn't fault the service, they just didn't give us the same level of attentiveness they did for our fellow diners - I can only assume they thought we wouldn't tip or would give them a poor tip.

I usually tip 20%, if I tip less because of poor service, I leave a note explaining why so that the server knows that I'm just not a poor tipper, but that thier service was the reason.

 

[jcb]

To answer Kevin's question, it probably started on April 1, 1983, which was the date the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982, began applying to payrolls. Among other things, TEFRA required employers of tipped employees to report to the IRS information, including gross sales and tip employee's reported to the employer. If the reported tip income was less than 8 percent of gross receipts, the employer was required to allocate to the employees an amount equal to the difference between 8 percent of gross receipts and the amounts reported to the employer as tip income by employees.

While tips had long been held to be taxable income, TEFRA not only reduced a tipped employee's ability to fail to report a sizable amount of tipped income, it increased the income reported to an employer causing more to be withheld from checks for tax and social security.

The move was quite controversial with several newspapers (Eugene Herald, Daytona Beach (AP story), Merced Sun - for contemporaneous articles available on google) coming out against it. A bill was introduced to repeal the provision but it never passed.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I was just putting some facts out there about what a server's actual pay is before a gratuity is considered.

FIrst, I thought your post was wonderful and please dont hesitate to keep posting. It's what keeps these boards interesting and alive. Sharing ideas and information is what this is all about.

Also...please understand that I wasnt judging you and I am not against tipping. I do it every time I dine out and because of my job...that's a lot.

My point was that if you are working harder than anyone you know and making $79 take home every two weeks.....than any retail / clerical / entry level position will probably be easier work and guarantee at least minimum wage. My actual point was that you might be able to find easier work at a higher rate of pay. The downside of that is that you make the same rate if performance is just acceptable or if your performance is stellar.

I hope I did not offend you. That was never my intent.

Yikes - a little harsh, no?

No. See above.

After just a short walk through a local shopping area, I found 3 help wanted signs.....and I was barely looking.

Again...this would guarantee a better wage than $79 every two weeks, but the possibility of bringing home more than that is not there.

If I take the figures posted of 4 shifts a week at $1000 - $1300 a shift and take 10% of that, we are talking about $400 - $520.00 per week. at 15%, we are talking $600 - $780 per week. I realize that is prior to taxes and tip sharing.

At the current minimum wage of $7.31 per hour and a standard work week of 40 hours...we're talking $292.00 per week prior to taxes for a minimum wage job.

While the work will be easier, it would almost undoubtedly be a cut in pay.

There are certainly tradeoff to an incentive based job.

 

[mdvlprof]

It's nuts what is becoming the standard. My standards?

15% for normal service
20% for great service
0-5-10 for a buffet, depending on what the server actually does.

 

[Disney Dad Canada]

At the current minimum wage of $7.31 per hour and a standard work week of 40 hours...we're talking $292.00 per week prior to taxes for a minimum wage job.

Ouch, $7.31 an hour? It's $10.25 here in Ontario and I thought that was low.