Homework rant

[Janepod]

Are you a Hoya?

 

[goofy4tink]

And this is why a teacher should make extra time before school and afterwards for students to be able to go and get help when needed. My main point is that other students should not be obligated to do what a teacher is paid to do. If a student does not understand how to do something the teacher should be able to have enough time through planning out their day to have extra time.



I work with a teacher who shares this same philosophy.

Friends are neve 'obligated', they are being friends. And I have to tell you...there is no way I'm going to be able to help my child out. I stopped that when she got to 5th grade math!!
But, we must be very fortunate....all our high school teachers have hours either before school or after school for extra help.
And here's the thing....some kids are not always going to be able to 'get it', even with hours of a teachers time. So, they have to get tutoring. There are times that a teacher just does not have the time needed. And that shouldn't be an obligation.

But weren't you the one who brought up that parents often don't get home until after 5? Transportation before/after school can be a big problem in some families.

I never suggested (and I didn't read it in goofy4tink's reply) that other students should be "obligated". I don't see a problem with a student reaching out to another with "I don't understand #3 on our assignment." ESPECIALLY if the students are friends.

Yep, my dd has had very good luck having friends give her some addtl help. She doesn't feel so 'nervous' about not getting it right away. She always felt that the teachers thought she should have figured it out more quickly than she did, so she got nervous if it took her longer to do it.
I don't get the whole 'its a teachers job to make them understand, not other kids'. Kids have been studying together for years...it works.

 

[MouseketeerMMC]

But weren't you the one who brought up that parents often don't get home until after 5? Transportation before/after school can be a big problem in some families.

And transportation is not a problem getting kids together for study groups? If a child is having issues a kid should be able to go before or after school very easily and get help in a very quick amount of time (unless it is a paper) and unless the child rides the bus, but a good teacher should easily be able to make time prior to class.

I never suggested (and I didn't read it in goofy4tink's reply) that other students should be "obligated". I don't see a problem with a student reaching out to another with "I don't understand #3 on our assignment." ESPECIALLY if the students are friends.

I think that is okay every now and then, but if it is a constant thing then no. Your original post made it seem like it was a 'go to' answer. My guess is that maybe it is a misconception. However, how would you feel if you were a friend, and weekly you would have to answer questions after school about a problem. It would be like a neighbor who comes over and asks to borrow or help for a project. It can become tiring. What can result is that a student will just start copying answers for his homework.

Friends are neve 'obligated', they are being friends. And I have to tell you...there is no way I'm going to be able to help my child out. I stopped that when she got to 5th grade math!!
But, we must be very fortunate....all our high school teachers have hours either before school or after school for extra help.
And here's the thing....some kids are not always going to be able to 'get it', even with hours of a teachers time. So, they have to get tutoring. There are times that a teacher just does not have the time needed. And that shouldn't be an obligation.

It comes off as taking advantage of your friends when you expect that a students friends should have to do that, and that a teacher has no obligation. Most students do not need hours but 5 to 10 minutes of alone time. And a teachers obligation is to make sure that a kid can get to the next advancement. If not, then the kid should be held back. Tutoring is another discussion.

 

[sam_gordon]

And transportation is not a problem getting kids together for study groups? If a child is having issues a kid should be able to go before or after school very easily and get help in a very quick amount of time (unless it is a paper) and unless the child rides the bus, but a good teacher should easily be able to make time prior to class.

I'm not talking about study groups. I specifically said "call or text".

I think that is okay every now and then, but if it is a constant thing then no. Your original post made it seem like it was a 'go to' answer. My guess is that maybe it is a misconception. However, how would you feel if you were a friend, and weekly you would have to answer questions after school about a problem. It would be like a neighbor who comes over and asks to borrow or help for a project. It can become tiring. What can result is that a student will just start copying answers for his homework.

I never meant to infer that asking for help would be a "constant" thing. I even went back and reread my post and don't see it. I simply said kids don't have to wait until parents get home at 5 to ask for homework help.

 

[MouseketeerMMC]

I simply said kids don't have to wait until parents get home at 5 to ask for homework help.

And that is the problem with homework. When a question arises someone has to be available. Who do you ask? And where do you get help? It becomes a burden not only for the child, but for others surrounding the child.

 

[scrapquitler]

Just curious how long your school day is if the periods are 70 minutes long? Our periods are on average 40 minutes here.

Here the class periods are 88 minutes long, but the high school has block scheduling, so there are only 4 classes each day. As a result most classes are every other day only. For example on "a" days my daughter has study hall, statistics, gym and English. On B days she has calculus, photography, Latin and Chemistry.

 

[Jennasis]

And that is the problem with homework. When a question arises someone has to be available. Who do you ask? And where do you get help? It becomes a burden not only for the child, but for others surrounding the child.

Not true. There is the internet...something I didn't have as a child but would have REALLY loved, considering neither of my parents could offer me a lick of help with my homework, though they were home. It was well beyond their comprehension.

 

[Janepod]

And that is the problem with homework. When a question arises someone has to be available. Who do you ask? And where do you get help? It becomes a burden not only for the child, but for others surrounding the child.

Says who? We all made it through school just fine in the pre-internet, pre-cell Dark Ages.

 

[sam_gordon]

And that is the problem with homework. When a question arises someone has to be available. Who do you ask? And where do you get help? It becomes a burden not only for the child, but for others surrounding the child.

If I were a student and I got to a problem that I didn't understand, here would be my steps...
1) Call/text a friend.
2) Call/text/email the teacher
3) Check with a parent/older sibling
4) Try the internet
5) Skip the problem

I don't see where you get that someone HAS to be available.

 

[MouseketeerMMC]

Says who? We all made it through school just fine in the pre-internet, pre-cell Dark Ages.

If you can not figure out something on your own, especially the basics, and the building blocks, you do need someone to help you figure it out or you can not move forward. How can one do fractions if they do understand multiplication?

 

[sam_gordon]

If you can not figure out something on your own, especially the basics, and the building blocks, you do need someone to help you figure it out or you can move forward. How can one do fractions if they do understand multiplication?

How many students are learning multiplication and fractions on the same day (so the homework would cover learning both of them)? The "building blocks" come over time. I still don't understand what you're trying to say.

 

[disney1990]

She has AP history, Chem H, Pre-Calc H, ELA H and Spanish H next year.. I think she's nuts.

Maybe she can test out of a year of college.. that would be nice.

It took her two hours to finish the math packet and she said the SS is at least another two hours.

This doesn't happen every night.. it definitely goes in waves. But I didn't think the first day back from break they would lay it on so thick. At least it was only two teachers.

Good luck with that logic. Several kids I know took AP classes in high school, got good grades and did well on the test. Then they started college thinking they could skip to the next class. Most of them could not handle the class and had to go back and retake the class they took as an AP class in high school. Unfortunately, most AP classes are not on the same level as college classes - even though they tell us they are.

 

[Janepod]

If you can not figure out something on your own, especially the basics, and the building blocks, you do need someone to help you figure it out or you can move forward. How can one do fractions if they do understand multiplication?

Huh?

I cannot figure this out on my own.

Well, I'll try, without asking someone.

If you need someone to help you figure it out, you ask the teacher in class, or right after class, or before the end of the day. But presumably one is not "doing" fractions before understanding multiplication. Because if they don't understand multiplication, they should have figured that out before concluding the multiplication unit and moving on to fractions, right?

No one has to figure anything out on his or her own. That's what teachers and class time are for.

 

[declansdad]

And transportation is not a problem getting kids together for study groups? If a child is having issues a kid should be able to go before or after school very easily and get help in a very quick amount of time (unless it is a paper) and unless the child rides the bus, but a good teacher should easily be able to make time prior to class.

Easier said than done.

 

[MouseketeerMMC]

How many students are learning multiplication and fractions on the same day (so the homework would cover learning both of them)? The "building blocks" come over time. I still don't understand what you're trying to say.

If you NEVER learn how to do something and simply skip over it, HOW can you move forward and be able to do it? Of course you need someone to teach you how to do it if you can not.

My multiplication and fractions was an example of just that.

 

[Janepod]

If you NEVER learn how to do something and simply skip over it, HOW can you move forward and be able to do it? Of course you need someone to teach you how to do it if you can not.

My multiplication and fractions was an example of just that.

Who is saying skip over things?
Obviously you need someone to teach you. That's why we have teachers.

 

[Janepod]

Who is saying skip over things?
Obviously you need someone to teach you. That's why we have teachers.

ETA -- I don't mean you, poster. I mean "one."

 

[sam_gordon]

If you NEVER learn how to do something and simply skip over it, HOW can you move forward and be able to do it? Of course you need someone to teach you how to do it if you can not.

My multiplication and fractions was an example of just that.

I mentioned "skip the problem" if a student can't figure out how to solve it. Is that what you're referring to? Presumably the student would ask the teacher for help during class the next time.

You seem to be focused on long-term issues with a student not understanding a concept (like multiplication). That's not what a friend's help is for. Heck, that's not what a parent's help is for either. If someone doesn't understand multiplication, the teacher will find out about it (either because the student/parents say something or the student does poorly on tests & quizzes).

 

[Liberty Belle]

I'm a high school math teacher, and I absolutely agree with the OP.

My classes have what we lovingly call the "20 minute rule."

You need to spend 20 minutes per night doing your math homework. No texting, no snacking, no Facebook, no phone... 20 minutes of quality time with a pencil (or pen) and your math textbook.

At the end of those 20 minutes, finished or not, you can close the book.

If you're the only one who struggled, I'll expect to see you in extra help. If everyone struggled, then I messed up-- either my explanation wasn't clear or I underestimated the difficulty or length of the assignment.

You're also allowed to miss, then make up for full credit, up to 3 assignments per marking periods. Hey, sometimes life gets in the way of homework. Either you come home sick, or it's Grandma's birthday, or the appointment at the orthodontist's runs long.

There are no "math emergencies" that should require any kid to spend hours on my math homework.

I wish more teachers, at the end of a long day, had to spend a few hours helping their young kids with homework. I think they would see the frustration of a kid who KNOWS he's doing busy work, and the fear in the eyes of a conscientious kid who simply doesn't get the material but needs to finish it.

I have 180 days in which to cover the syllabus. It's my job to ensure that it's done well and that I've utilized my time well. I work from bell to bell, we don't play games or have days when we ease up. If you miss a day of my class, you've missed a lot. Miss a week, and you're in a pretty deep hole. But 180 days of one 38 minute class, plus 20 minutes of homework per day, is all I need.

Thank you!

Thank goodness, finally, my son has a teacher like you this year. Even though he has an IEP (ADHD) which includes a reduced workload (he consistently scores very superior on his MAP tests), his past teachers would not reduce his workload. This year, the teacher only gives out about 10-20 minutes of homework a night, period (4th grade). He's now completing his work even if he knows it's busy work because he sees it's not that big of an issue/not going to take him long. Before, he would not even attempt to do it.

 

[disney1990]

If your kids want to go to a top 20 - or really, even a top 50 - college, they will need to pack their schedule with honors and AP classes. Those universities don't accept students with "regular classes only." But really, it's up to each family to choose the path that is right for them.

Sorry to disagree with you. My daughter took regular classes and didn't do well in high school at all. She then went to community college and became an honor roll student. She transferred to a college ranked 17th by Newsweek and graduated with her degree in Biology and her Masters in Entomology (with a full scholarship). No, she has never taken an AP class or an Honors Class and she can't speak a foreign language. Plus, she had no major after school activities to list on her college application.