Hollywood Studios Refurb

[DDLand]

Personally, I think that the DHS overhaul is SO far overdue it's laughable! Before they even thought about Pandora or New Fantasyland, they should have gotten this park up to Disney standards. Made it an all day park, instead of the "ok.... lets get the 3 fastpasses as close together as possible, so we can ride the E tickets and go somewhere else" park. Then they could have built New Fantasyland and after that Pandora.. or whatever incarnation it would have become by that point.

Well I did read an article that apparently before Pandora came to life, Disney had originally been intending to build something along the backlog tour using Avatar. They fast tracked Avatar in the end. I did seem like for a time DHS was on track for big stuff.

Oh, and...

Edit: Here's the Quote:

It’s an understanding that goes well beyond Staggs’ training as a financial steward. Consider his creative input for a coming $500 million “Avatar”-inspired addition to Disney’s Animal Kingdom in Florida.

In 2011, Iger and Staggs had breakfast with James Cameron, the director of “Avatar,” and Jon Landau, who produced the movie. They were discussing a deal to make “Avatar,” which took in $2.8 billion worldwide, part of Disney’s Hollywood Studios theme park.


Out of the blue, according to Landau, Staggs floated a more ambitious idea: What about instead adding an entire “Avatar” land to Animal Kingdom, a park with an ecological theme that could use a kick in the pants?


“It was Tom who had the vision to say, ‘Hey, maybe this isn’t just part of a studio tour — let’s think bigger,’ ” Landau said. “Tom is not going to spend Disney’s money frivolously. But he is capable of making the best creative decision despite it not being the most economical decision, and that is crucial for the Disney brand.”

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/no-sure-ride-for-disney-prince-to-magic-kingdom-throne/

 

[101disneyfan]

Well I did read an article that apparently before Pandora came to life, Disney had originally been intending to build something along the backlog tour using Avatar. They fast tracked Avatar in the end. I did seem like for a time DHS was on track for big stuff.

Oh, and...

That would make the rumors of Avatar eventually going into the Disney Studios Paris make sense, if it was originally planned for Hollywood Studios.

 

[DDLand]

That would make the rumors of Avatar eventually going into the Disney Studios Paris make sense, if it was originally planned for Hollywood Studios.

Yeah, that's an interesting connection. I also think it could've gone where the "Scandinavian" Port (they can call it that all they want, but no one is going to be fooled it's anything more then a near carbon copy of Arrendele) is now. Especially considering the next few Avatars are supposed to include lots of underwater scenes. It would've made sense.

I added the quote and link for what I was talking about above.

 

[wallrock]

I think you've got it entirely backwards. Arguably Disney Parks is becoming more important to the "Disney" Robert Iger is trying to make. I'll finish that it in a moment. First:


Is there a "problem?" What is the problem? I don't think there is one. Except for HS, the parks are firing on all cylinders. (DAK is soft, but we saw what WOC can do) There's two reasons to build attractions:

1) Grow attendance- This can be superseded if another park around the globe is struggling aka DCA, HKDL, PD, WDS
2) Retain attendance- The higher law
3?) Iffy and new, MyMagic is system that is about improving experience, improving intent to return, and boosting guest spending. While not actually a traditional "attraction, it does somewhat fall into those characteristics. For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to stick with the first two.


If Disney doesn't expect to either grow attendance or doesn't need to retain customers then building is exactly the wrong thing to do. Our "problems" or desires are not their "problems."

This makes me agree with your next point:

If it's not directly effecting the 2 rules then it's not a "problem." You could argue there are subtle signs that the 2nd is being broken, but that's not played out yet.

1 seems to be broken in a dramatic fashion. There's potentially millions of untapped ticket clicks waiting to happen. I agree with you there, but you start to lose me with:
And then what? They'll put the "For Sale" sign out front? That's ridiculous. Disney has added many offerings over the last decade, (not enough to fully satisfy 1, but enough to completely surpass 2) they're not going to walk away from billions of dollars. Walt Disney World is THE PREEMINENT TOURIST DESTINATION ON THE PLANET. You recently heard that Orlando is the number one tourist destination on Earth, guess who collects the Lion share of that? Disney. Arguing that Disney is on track to ruin Walt Disney World then try to claw their way back from the brink is silly. Theoretically if the public does eventually say enough is enough, it will slam them hard. It will effect not only WDW, but also Disneyland Resort, Disney Cruise Line, Disneyland Paris, and even Walt Disney Animation and Studios. WDW is the literal embodiment of Disney. If WDW has the reputation of being crap, that effects all of Disney. They're in it for the long game, even if backlot's replacement hasn't been announced yet.

When the heck were parks ever the "principal product?" Last time I checked, Michael Eisner came from Hollywood. Michael Ovits too. Jeffery Katzenburg yeah. Disney has always been movie and television focused first. Before Disneyland was a place, it was a TV show. That's not to say Disney Parks weren't creative contributors in their own way. Pirates the best example. They created content, and the movie studio created more content. They shared with each other and were better off for it. I'm of the mindset that Disney is the strongest when each of their now 5 creative hearts are beating (LF, WDA,WDI,WDS,MS). I'm not sure if WDI is what it once was, but the same could be said of WDA once too, so we never know when things will turn around.

I do think the parks will sadly lose some of their uniqueness to IP based stuff, but in a way that makes them even more critical to the company. They're now completely invested in the outcome of the parks because they're representative of the other divisions.
And??? Massive media conglomerates can do more then one thing at once. Making more movies doesn't mean anything for the parks. During the Eisner Era, they were cranking out tons of movies through WDS, WDA, Mirmax, TD, and Touchstone. One of the first things Iger did was drastically reduce the amount of movies released. I was actually struck by how few movies there were. Especially original...

You've got this part wrong. Guess which division's profit contracted? Guess which division is facing increased costs? Guess which division has a dozen tech companies breathing down its throat? Ain't Disney Parks and Resorts. I'd argue Disney's big bets with Shanghai Disney, Star Wars, Marvel, etc point them exactly the opposite direction. Besides Disney Channel, none of those channels build up the "Disney" Iger is trying to craft. They're increasingly looking like the outsiders to this massive Walt Disney Studios, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, Walt Disney Consumer Products, and Walt Disney Interactive... IP Party. They're one of the few divisions that hasn't really been able to leverage Marvel or Star Wars in a meaningful way (Agents of Shield and SW Rebels are small fries in the grand scheme of things). I could list dozens of reasons why Mickey Mouse is important to DPs, DCP, WDS, WDI, but I'd struggle to tell you why he mattered to ESPN. That lacks synergy. Something Iger has been all about.


That breaks up the "Disney" Robert Iger is trying to make. Having one part owned by some random company, and another owned by a different one breaks up the One Brand he's trying to create. Disney Parks is the literal embodiment of the company. There's no way they'd sacrifice all that good will, and fanatical fanboyism for no reason. Oh, and did I mention Disney Parks generates billions?

I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility. What would they buy though? Nothing immediately obvious. There's been an arms race for IP, I'm not sure where they'd go next. They could go after a bigger studio.

In closing, I'd say Disney Parks is not destined for obliteration. Could they (and should they) be building more and capitalizing on the potential growth? Yes. Are they moving in that direction? Looks like it. Are Disney Parks irrelevant? Nope, I'd argue they're more relevant to Disney then ever. Did Disney executives use clever spin tactics to avoid talking about MyMagic? I'm afraid so. Darn it Staggs. (Not really pertinent to anything I was saying, but I had to vent somewhere)

Where do we start…For one you’re reading way too much into what I’ve said.

To your first comments about Disney not seeing any problems in Orlando, I’m not sure if you’re reinforcing my statements or you’re against them. My statement was simple; the profits are rolling in from the Orlando campus therefore Disney doesn’t see any problems there. The guest’s perception of a problem is going to be different and not linked in any way with Disney management’s version. To us, a problem can be infrequent updates, high costs, mediocre offerings at the restaurants and shutting down of attractions without any thought of replacing them. From a Disney perspective, as long as we have our credit cards out they’re not going to put any concern on those topics.

With my comment about the milking of the campus and the public saying enough is enough…where exactly are you interpreting those comments to mean that the ‘for sale’ sign is going up? Again you’re reading way too much into a simple statement; the public will say enough is enough and attendance will start dropping as price increases hit their threshold for acceptance. It happens all the time with luxury services when they get too expensive. Disney certainly isn’t blind to this yet they continue to jack up the prices and close attractions. Once again, as long as we continue to open our wallets Disney will continue the practice.

Regarding principal products…Throughout the Eisner era he went full out on expanding the park line, or did you not see the rapid expansion in Orlando? It’s safe to say that those expansion days are behind us and Iger is focused more on IP acquisition and on the reduced risk profits of overseas investors jumping in and licensing Disney IP. Iger’s been on the record regarding this philosophy more than once.

As far as the media division's position, feel free to read up on the annual reports and see which division pulls in the most. Shanghai's additional growth, and include Tokyo's by the way, has less to do with Burbank and more to do with the companies that run them. While a significant partner, Disney stands to gain more (i.e. assume less risk) with a cut of the profits because they're not the only ones dumping money into them (or hardly dumping at all). The two stateside campuses are the only ones they fully control and there are no plans on expanding in the US in the future (something else Iger has been on the record saying). Why do you think that Iger has been acquiring things like Pixar, Marvel and Lucasfilm? From what we've seen it isn't about putting them into the Orlando park. It's understood why Marvel doesn't go into WDW, but there hasn’t been one piece of evidence that suggests anything significant is coming to Orlando that is Pixar or Star Wars related. People can run and jump onto rumors and speculation all they want, but the execs have yet to announce anything. And I wouldn’t bother trying to compare Eisner’s work in film with Iger’s. I'll give Eisner credit on capturing Capital Cities, but he nearly ran the company into the ground and killed the relationship with Katzenberg - the true genius behind Disney animation at the time and their resurgence in the film business - and practically kills their relationship with Pixar. Iger steps in and saves the Pixar relationship and acquires Marvel and Star Wars. I think it’s safe to say that during Iger’s tenure movies have become more substantial in the Disney portfolio.

That breaks up the "Disney" Robert Iger is trying to make. Having one part owned by some random company, and another owned by a different one breaks up the One Brand he's trying to create. Disney Parks is the literal embodiment of the company. There's no way they'd sacrifice all that good will, and fanatical fanboyism for no reason. Oh, and did I mention Disney Parks generates billions?

This one I just had to emphasize...

Have you not been paying attention to what Disney is doing? Do you think for a moment that they want to end the relationship they have with Comcast? Comcast cuts Disney a check regularly and Disney doesn’t have to lift a finger on construction costs, maintenance or labor. Who do you think owns the majority of Tokyo? Shanghai? Hong Kong? Each of those places cuts Disney a check for the use of their IP material. Before the bailout by Burbank who owned the majority of Paris? Where in the current Disney environment do you see Iger standing up and trying to reel in all of these locations to be fully under his umbrella?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Wallrock...

Excellent points, as always...

The one battle I fight near constantly is when I point out that the themeparks are being approached in an almost entirely different fashion that they were even when Eisner was still around...

People are looking at It in the context of "they're building something"...and not what, how, why... And where's the money coming from...

They are almost building close to "net zero" on many of these "impressive" expansions... Especially at wdw.

When Disney doesn't want to build things to have new things to impress us with - and make us make us book more trips back...
We're in trouble.

 

[DDLand]

Where do we start…For one you’re reading way too much into what I’ve said.

Oh, I am?

To your first comments about Disney not seeing any problems in Orlando, I’m not sure if you’re reinforcing my statements or you’re against them. My statement was simple; the profits are rolling in from the Orlando campus therefore Disney doesn’t see any problems there.

Agreed here, and I was simply agreeing with their analysis of the situation.

The guest’s perception of a problem is going to be different and not linked in any way with Disney management’s version. To us, a problem can be infrequent updates, high costs, mediocre offerings at the restaurants and shutting down of attractions without any thought of replacing them. From a Disney perspective, as long as we have our credit cards out they’re not going to put any concern on those topics.

Agreed.

With my comment about the milking of the campus and the public saying enough is enough…where exactly are you interpreting those comments to mean that the ‘for sale’ sign is going up?

Lost me here before. Lost me here again. What the heck are you saying? If Disney raised prices to the point where they began ticking off millions, this would have irreparable consequences. They'd be hitting the self destruct button. Their entire company would be negatively effected. Simply slowing growth is different then having millions of consumers turn their back on Walt Disney World. If they ruined Walt Disney World in that manor it would become a major drag on the entire company. They're as good as saying WDW is dead.

Again you’re reading way too much into a simple statement;

Oh.

the public will say enough is enough and attendance will start dropping as price increases hit their threshold for acceptance.

Okay, your interpretation is simply WDW slowing growth through higher ticket prices? That's different then enough is enough. Enough is enough denotes mass drops in bookings. Destruction of the brand and everything it represents.

It happens all the time with luxury services when they get too expensive.

Except Disney isn't a luxury good. It's totally a nostalgic/emotional purchase. If Disney wrecks itself through either mismanagement or pricing consumers out, there will be longterm consequences company wide.

Edit: I want to re clarify some things here. Usually luxury denotes a certain level of extreme quality for upper classes. I'd argue Walt Disney World Resort's connection with the middle class is something more. They go out of their way to make that emotional connection something fundemental to the entire experience. It's that basic emotional connection that lays the framework for Walt Disney World entire success. Part of why WDW has this connection is it's for everyone. If they made it elitist they blow that relationship. There simply aren't enough wealthy individuals to support the entire Resort operation. Not even close. If this trust is broken, I don't know if the middle class will forgive them.

Disney certainly isn’t blind to this yet they continue to jack up the prices and close attractions. Once again, as long as we continue to open our wallets Disney will continue the practice.

I agree that we are giving them the go ahead.

Regarding principal products…Throughout the Eisner era he went full out on expanding the park line, or did you not see the rapid expansion in Orlando?

Yeah, it's not like Disney's more then doubled the cruise fleet, built Aulani, fixed DCA, fixed HKDL, are fixing DLP. I'm sorry, WDW is not the entire Parks and Resorts business. There's so much more to it then just that. Of course he has updated and expanded multiple attractions at WDW. Just is kind of silly to say they're decelerating.

It’s safe to say that those expansion days are behind us

Yep, Iger would never spend a billion dollars on a theme park land in the US... Wait.

and Iger is focused more on IP acquisition and on the reduced risk profits of overseas investors jumping in and licensing Disney IP.

It turns out at the same time Iger was working both the Lucasfilm and Marvel buyouts he was also working on DCA and HKDL additions. At the same time. He has no intention to "license Disney IP." The last time they did that it was in the late 1970s with a project that birthed Tokyo Disney.

Iger’s been on the record regarding this philosophy more than once.

I'd love to see Iger say that he'll do another Tokyo style theme park where they own 0 interest. Last time I checked TDL is regarded as one of the biggest blunders in WDC history because they didn't get any interest in it. Licensing is not fun when you don't get a chunk of the profits.

As far as the media division's position, feel free to read up on the annual reports and see which division pulls in the most.

Stop beating this into the ground. The media division (Minus Disney Channel) isn't part of the the core "Disney." You want to know what they do with those IP acquisitions they make? They integrate them into their parks, interactive, Studios, and DCP globally. That's what they use those buyouts for. Media Networks has almost always been the most important division. (For a while it's parts were in not fully consolidated). Once again I bring up the fact WDC can do multiple things at once, and I believe television is about to go through a disruptive period. Parks/the entire family of Disney brands are strong. They're leading the growth.

Shanghai's additional growth, and include Tokyo's by the way, has less to do with Burbank and more to do with the companies that run them.

This is just wrong. Disney owns 42% interest in Shanghai Disneyland and a 70% interest in the ownership company. Apart from direct profit contributions from those two companies Disney also collects other fees and dues. I'd expect Disney to walk away with 50%ish of the profit. Partially they had to invite partners in so they could gain access to the country. Tokyo is true, and they're doing everything in their power to never repeat that mistake.

While a significant partner, Disney stands to gain more (i.e. assume less risk) with a cut of the profits because they're not the only ones dumping money into them (or hardly dumping at all).

It may do you some good to check out Disney's last few quarterly earnings. I think you'd be surprised that Disney's costs have been rising significantly due to Shanghai Disneyland opening expenses.

The two stateside campuses are the only ones they fully control and there are no plans on expanding in the US in the future (something else Iger has been on the record saying).

I think it's worth thinking about how they recently acquired a massive portion of Euro Disney and how in 2009 they expanded their ownership interest in HKDL. Just sayin. Also there're still actively investing in both of their Resorts. Just because they're not increasing the number doesn't mean they're not interested.

Why do you think that Iger has been acquiring things like Pixar, Marvel and Lucasfilm?

Brand synergies.

From what we've seen it isn't about putting them into the Orlando park.

That's part of a grander picture. It's not all about Orlando.

It's understood why Marvel doesn't go into WDW, but there hasn’t been one piece of evidence that suggests anything significant is coming to Orlando that is Pixar or Star Wars related. People can run and jump onto rumors and speculation all they want, but the execs have yet to announce anything.

That may be an understatement, it's true nothing firm yet. Every other park in their portfolio either has one of the brands in a major fashion or are building attractions around them.

And I wouldn’t bother trying to compare Eisner’s work in film with Iger’s. I'll give Eisner credit on capturing Capital Cities, but he nearly ran the company into the ground and killed the relationship with Katzenberg - the true genius behind Disney animation at the time and their resurgence in the film business - and practically kills their relationship with Pixar. Iger steps in and saves the Pixar relationship and acquires Marvel and Star Wars. I think it’s safe to say that during Iger’s tenure movies have become more substantial in the Disney portfolio.

I disagree fundamentally. Arguably the film studio is a tiny part of the companies picture. It's when multiple parts can leverage a movie that it's best. Check the annual report.

This one I just had to emphasize...

Have you not been paying attention to what Disney is doing? Do you think for a moment that they want to end the relationship they have with Comcast?

Yes.

Comcast cuts Disney a check regularly and Disney doesn’t have to lift a finger on construction costs, maintenance or labor.

They also aren't maximizing their profit, and they're weakening the brand picture Disney is trying to make.

Who do you think owns the majority of Tokyo? Shanghai? Hong Kong?

Tokyo I mentioned before. Shanghai, about half Disney. Same with Hong Kong. They've dumped billions into those two parks.

Each of those places cuts Disney a check for the use of their IP material. Before the bailout by Burbank who owned the majority of Paris? Where in the current Disney environment do you see Iger standing up and trying to reel in all of these locations to be fully under his umbrella?

He can't, they deliberately choose to accept other partners in order to enter those markets. Those governments would never sell.

 

[rteetz]

think it's worth thinking about how they recently acquired a massive portion of Euro Disney and how in 2009 they expanded their ownership interest in HKDL. Just sayin. Also there're still actively investing in both of their Resorts. Just because they're not increasing the number doesn't mean they're not interested.

Paris is a mess they had no choice but to step in and fix it. HKDL has a new hotel and iron man coming with rumors of more of course but China is paying for some of that. Disney doesn't pay for these projects unless they are necessary.

Stop beating this into the ground. The media division (Minus Disney Channel) isn't part of the the core "Disney." You want to know what they do with those IP acquisitions they make? They integrate them into their parks, interactive, Studios, and DCP globally. That's what they use those buyouts for. Media Networks has almost always been the most important division. (For a while it's parts were in not fully consolidated). Once again I bring up the fact WDC can do multiple things at once, and I believe television is about to go through a disruptive period. Parks/the entire family of Disney brands are strong. They're leading the growth.

ESPN, ABC, numerous Disney channels all make boat loads for Disney. ESPN is huge for Disney. Disney can't do a whole lot with Marvel stateside and has yet to do much with it else where. They have owned marvel since 2009 and iron man opens in 2016, 7 years later with no more marvel additions anywhere else in sight. Marvel has been on the record saying tho that they don't care so much about the parks they care about their movies. Disney has also been active in getting exclusive things to Netflix like marvel series DareDevil.

I'd love to see Iger say that he'll do another Tokyo style theme park where they own 0 interest. Last time I checked TDL is regarded as one of the biggest blunders in WDC history because they didn't get any interest in it. Licensing is not fun when you don't get a chunk of the profits.

This I'll agree with but TDL is highly successful and I don't think Disney minds just getting a licensing check from them. I definitely don't think Disney would ever do that again tho.

eah, it's not like Disney's more then doubled the cruise fleet, built Aulani, fixed DCA, fixed HKDL, are fixing DLP. I'm sorry, WDW is not the entire Parks and Resorts business. There's so much more to it then just that. Of course he has updated and expanded multiple attractions at WDW. Just is kind of silly to say they're decelerating

Here's my take on this part. WDW is there flagship resort, it's the most iconic of them all. I think more people recognize WDW than they do Disneyland. WDW isn't treated as that flagship anymore. The parks aren't updated and as clean as they once were. The number of outdated things keeps growing. DCA I understand that's was necessary. Aulani wasn't necessary while nice and is supposed to be the best Disney hotel anywhere. Aulani also didn't sell as well as they wanted it too. Even Disneyland celebrating 60 years this year they are getting updates all over the place. WDW barely celebrates an anniversary when they should. DHS 25th last year was absolutely nothing some pins a t shirt and Cockerall giving a quick speech along side some CMs that have been there since day one. Epcot could be a huge fantastic park again with just some simple updates but doubtful Disney will do that at least anytime soon. Their cruise line is highly successful and extremely high priced but still small. I think Eisner would've added those two ships if he would've stayed. WDW is the biggest money maker for parks and resorts it should be treated as such.

In terms of Shanghai we both know that there is some sketchiness in that project. Shendi is in control and Iger seems to be the puppet. While I'm sure the park will be stunning Shendi seems to be more in control than Disney likes.

I agree with Wallrock that Igers biggest thing will be movies. He acquired Pixar, Star Wars, and Marvel. We are at a point in where this could be the second Disney Renaissance. Movies is definitely the biggest takeaway from Iger. Marvel and potentially Star Wars will be some of the biggest movies of all time.

 

[DDLand]

Paris is a mess they had no choice but to step in and fix it. HKDL has a new hotel and iron man coming with rumors of more of course but China is paying for some of that. Disney doesn't pay for these projects unless they are necessary.

I'll jump in my friend, let's see. Well you and I both know the speculation behind Paris. Why/how did Paris get to that horrible awful place? Spirit tends to believe Disney specifically slammed it with bad managment. Why? Because they wanted to buy it out. So they "had no choice" only because they wanted to have no choice.

The HKDL construction that currently is underway is financed partially by China, that's true. Still it shows their continued willingness to jump in. Spirit said that first Hong Kong expansion cost a billion straight from Disney's pocket. Now they're spending more.

ESPN, ABC, numerous Disney channels all make boat loads for Disney. ESPN is huge for Disney.

No doubt about all this. 0. ESPN is one of the most profoundly important and powerful channels ever. This reminds me of several companies that have had divisions make tons, but those divisions have almost nothing to do with the core mission of the company. There's almost no synergies between ESPN and Disney. Marvel and LucasFilm? Yep. ABC is more middle of the road. All I'm saying is just because a division makes money doesn't mean that it takes all the focus away from the other half of the company. Especially when Disney Parks is more critical to building up the "Disney" Iger is trying to create.

Disney can't do a whole lot with Marvel stateside and has yet to do much with it else where. They have owned marvel since 2009 and iron man opens in 2016, 7 years later with no more marvel additions anywhere else in sight.

True, but with rumors abounding of Marvel additions to WDS RnR, DCA, and construction at HKDL we'll be seeing more. (Especially if Disneyland is really scared of Harry Potter, I'd expect construction to move at a rapid clip)

Still Marvel has been integrated into the movie studios, Interactive, and DCP extremly quickly. Even parks has had upside from all this. Same goes for Star Wars. 4 of the 5 divisions have benefited enormously. Goes back to my point above about Media Metworks lacking synergy.

Marvel has been on the record saying tho that they don't care so much about the parks they care about their movies. Disney has also been active in getting exclusive things to Netflix like marvel series DareDevil.

Indeed. I can't figure out why Marvel is so down on theme parks. Seem odd if you ask me. Luckily it's not up to marvel to make those types of calls. Those have been interesting moves on their part.

This I'll agree with but TDL is highly successful and I don't think Disney minds just getting a licensing check from them. I definitely don't think Disney would ever do that again tho.

There have really been 5 blockbuster theme parks in the history of the world. Disney owns 3. Two are riding free collecting hundreds of millions with the Disney name and with their rides. People sometimes talk about the frustration that Disney must feel about Marvel at IOA. I've got a feeling it's not compared to what they feel when they go to TDL.

Here's my take on this part. WDW is there flagship resort, it's the most iconic of them all. I think more people recognize WDW than they do Disneyland. WDW isn't treated as that flagship anymore. The parks aren't updated and as clean as they once were. The number of outdated things keeps growing. DCA I understand that's was necessary. Aulani wasn't necessary while nice and is supposed to be the best Disney hotel anywhere. Aulani also didn't sell as well as they wanted it too. Even Disneyland celebrating 60 years this year they are getting updates all over the place. WDW barely celebrates an anniversary when they should. DHS 25th last year was absolutely nothing some pins a t shirt and Cockerall giving a quick speech along side some CMs that have been there since day one. Epcot could be a huge fantastic park again with just some simple updates but doubtful Disney will do that at least anytime soon. Their cruise line is highly successful and extremely high priced but still small. I think Eisner would've added those two ships if he would've stayed. WDW is the biggest money maker for parks and resorts it should be treated as such.

I agree with a lot of the stuff here. I would say that while upgrading DCA just seems like a no brainer now, I'm not sure if at the time it was so obvious. It was gutsy, and I don't think we should forget that.

In terms of Shanghai we both know that there is some sketchiness in that project. Shendi is in control and Iger seems to be the puppet. While I'm sure the park will be stunning Shendi seems to be more in control than Disney likes.

It does seem like something is going on there. I'm just not sure if Iger isn't the one who knows what he's doing. I can't help but feel like Disney does have the upper hand. Disney has proven to be ruthless at times.

I agree with Wallrock that Igers biggest thing will be movies. He acquired Pixar, Star Wars, and Marvel. We are at a point in where this could be the second Disney Renaissance. Movies is definitely the biggest takeaway from Iger. Marvel and potentially Star Wars will be some of the biggest movies of all time.

I think that's too simplistic. I think he'll be remembered as the guy who took incredible movies and leveraged their brands across multiple parts of the company to create billions. The movies are just one part of the puzzle.

 

[wallrock]

Wallrock...

Excellent points, as always...

The one battle I fight near constantly is when I point out the the themeparks are being approached in an almost entirely different fashion that they were even when Eisner was still around...

People are looking at It in the context of "they're building something"...and not what, how, why... And where's the money coming from...

They are almost building close to "net zero" on many of these "impressive" expansions... Especially at wdw.

When Disney doesn't want to build things to have new things to impress us with - and make us make us booms more trips back...
We're in trouble.

Agreed.

It seems people have become content with a theme park’s progress when they expand a shopping mall, put in a bathroom, repackage the same activities and put ‘exclusive’ or ‘premiere’ in the title and sell it for the cost of a day’s admission. All this coming from a theme park that set the bar for the industry and was light years ahead of the competition regarding theming, interaction and creating the ‘wow’ factor. Sadly, living off of a brand name has become enormously profitable.

 

[wallrock]

DDLand...


I’m not sure if you’re method of responding, meaning just taking strips of what I say and pulling them out of the context of the whole, is being done for kicks or it’s how you’re really interpreting what’s being said. I’m not going to quote every line you’ve put here so I’ll summarize by saying you’re looking at the parks one way and I’m looking at them in another. Like it or not, Disney is a luxury – meaning no adverse consequences will come to your well-being if you can’t go. And a luxury isn’t a class-based item. It’s something that you can do without regardless of how you classify it or categorize those that consume it. You raise the price on a luxury item enough and paying customers will start to walk away. It’s a simple fact of economics.

The media division is the biggest revenue generator in the company. Can’t say it any clearer than that. To remove it from the Disney ‘core’ as you say because you don’t like the numbers, what it represents or whatever reason you have doesn’t help the discussion much, however I wish you well on your crusade. Let me know how many stockholders you convert to your way of thinking.

 

[DDLand]

DDLand...


I’m not sure if you’re method of responding, meaning just taking strips of what I say and pulling them out of the context of the whole, is being done for kicks or it’s how you’re really interpreting what’s being said. I’m not going to quote every line you’ve put here so I’ll summarize by saying you’re looking at the parks one way and I’m looking at them in another. Like it or not, Disney is a luxury – meaning no adverse consequences will come to your well-being if you can’t go. And a luxury isn’t a class-based item. It’s something that you can do without regardless of how you classify it or categorize those that consume it. You raise the price on a luxury item enough and paying customers will start to walk away. It’s a simple fact of economics.

The media division is the biggest revenue generator in the company. Can’t say it any clearer than that. To remove it from the Disney ‘core’ as you say because you don’t like the numbers, what it represents or whatever reason you have doesn’t help the discussion much, however I wish you well on your crusade. Let me know how many stockholders you convert to your way of thinking.

I do that to make sure 1) I don't miss a key line(I find many posters drop key parts of my posts and respond to only what they want to respond to. They like to take one line of my posts and point a finger at it without the greater whole. I feel like this detracts from the conversation. So I did it to give you the dignity and respect you deserve) 2) To drill down into the key points. I find working with smaller blocks of text easier.

I don't think I've done anything to directly take you out of context. If you'd enlighten me, I'd love to see where.

Well @wallrock, I suppose that is indeed a very simple way of looking at things. Very simply. In a way it is somewhat elegant, we avoid the riff raff of differing view points and opinions and settle... Nothing.

I interpreted your usage of "luxury" to mean "the state of great comfort and extravagant living." Few would call a Used Toyota Corrola a "luxury" good, but it's true it's technically unnecessary when you could always walk to work. It's the same way few would typically call a WDW vacation "luxury" next to a trip to a Beachside Villa. I'm sorry I misinterpreted your usage.

Oh, and it just so happens that many quintessential luxury (using my definition of course) goods (BMWs, French Wine, Gold Watches) happen to be bought by wealthy people. Just sayin.

Who the heck said I was saying they should spin off media networks?

Actually I've liked that idea for a while... I expect ESPN to be squeezed by higher costs, and Disney's portfolio of channels to sell to cable companies for lower subscription costs as that industry is disrupted. I believe Media Networks is the most vulnerable division in the company, and the most likely to lead to billions in lost value. I'd argue spinning it off due to these risks and lack of synergies. An IPO for ESPN, and a rebranded ABC News would do the trick. Either offer shares in the new company or straight up return cash to the shareholders.

I think ABC and Disney Channel should survive. They represent the most synergy with their other brands. The new Walt Disney Company would consist of their core strength in IP Managment and unique experiences. Also of note, because Walt Disney Parks and Resorts is a highly stable business it would offer security when making investments in movies. De Capital Cities themselves.

Before you mock too much just remember one thing...

Never bet against Apple.

Well I need to start a website before I can start converting people to my side. It's not like it happens overnight.