Hollywood Studios Refurb

[rteetz]

I’ll stick with the theory I’ve had for a few years now…

Nothing substantial is coming to DHS regarding Star Wars or any other IP unless Burbank wants to pump in some serious bank to make it happen. Given that the crowds aren't diminishing despite the recent closings it makes me think that spending will be minimal. Translation: a gift shop mecca and maybe a themed restaurant around the IP (or IPs) of their choosing.

As Lockedoutlogic stated - trust the shovels. On a related note, let the attendance drop by five or ten points and the cranes and shovels would be at work the next day.

Gotta remember that this is the theme park that failed. The working studio concept wasn’t a bad idea but it just didn’t take off. Now they’ve got to figure out what to do with a plot of land that was never designed for heavy guest traffic, and the traffic present was to be heavily controlled (i.e. the backlot tour) in many areas. There is no hub and spoke layout here like at the other three parks so guest traffic can’t move efficiently. Put an E-ticket Star Wars attraction plus a few other items in or near Catastrophe Canyon and you’ve got a traffic jam of epic proportions. To fix the layout of the park will cost money, and a lot of it. Again unless the attendance drops there’s little motivation to re-arrange the furniture for an expansive Star Wars, Pixar or other IP presence.

While I agree to trust the shovels. I don't see a Star Wars attraction going in the backlot. I think they stay in the echo lake area. With that said I think within the next year we will see an announcement of big things coming to DHS or whatever it will be called soon after.

 

[rteetz]

I agree that Disney is aware of the shortcomings of both parks, but I suspect that they don't really know what to do with DHS. Again they're going to have to rearrange the foundation to improve foot traffic if they're going to plug in big ticket items. To spend or not to spend is the question, and Wall Street doesn't want them to spend. With the stock the way it is Iger is in agreement.

DHS has never really had a true vision. The park has needed help for over 10 years.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Refurb is the wrong word for these things. These projects are much larger undertakings.

It's a huge project...but they have provided little to generate any buzz/excitement on it yet...

The whole 5 years of shutdown: canceled redo is doing little to invoke "consumer confidence" either...

 

[rteetz]

It's a huge project...but they have provided little to generate any buzz/excitement on it yet...

The whole 5 years of shutdown: canceled redo is doing little to invoke "consumer confidence" either...

I agree The Landing was supposed to be finished in Spring of 2015 and that's when the name supposed to change to Disney Springs but I don't see it being finished by the end of Spring.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

One of the original attractions at Disney's Hollywood Studios is in its final week of operation ... Studio Backlot Tour to close for a near two month refurbishment.

I'm not following here...

Backlot closed permenantly in January without a peep.

It's in mothballs as currently situated.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I agree The Landing was supposed to be finished in Spring of 2015 and that's when the name supposed to change to Disney Springs but I don't see it being finished by the end of Spring.

I wasn't really commenting on the construction schedule...

More the reality that this is their second "grand plan" to redo the whole district and what they're rolled out so far is sunglasses hut and a flip flop shop.

They're trying to pump the boathouse currently...but it sure seems like hyper retail specialty restaurant nonsense...
They already have that all over property and they're now "pushing the envelope"

 

[Flyerjab]

I will never say that Universal is beating Disney, only because annual profits and attendance numbers do not bear that out. Disney absolutely kills the competition, even with the Boy Wizard being added. Having said that, add on the Sapphire Falls moderate Loews hotel, King Kong, and the monster water park that is coming to Universal, now the picture changes a bit (in Orlando). Comcast is not showing signs of slowing down and Universal will continue to find ways to build. They are even putting a lot of money into revitalizing City Walk.

I think that this is why the monster has been stirring a bit in WDW. All of the capacity expansion and New Fantasy Land stuff aside, this is why you are finally seeing Burbank spending cash like crazy in Orlando. They want to keep up and/or stay ahead of what Universal is doing. And for those who doubt that Star Wars won't be a 'force' in DHS in the future, well, I have to whole-heartedly disagree with you. Remember the mob of crazed fans that lined up through Universal when the Wizarding World first opened in 2010? I bet Disney did. Now, look how Universal's market share increased (permanently) as a result of that addition of a large, immersive, well-themed land. I bet Disney saw that too. In my opinion, that is why Pandora is as large as it is. And that is why Star Wars will be even larger. There is no way that WDW will have a Pandora expansion that dwarfs a Star Wars Land. And I can only imagine the legions of fanatics that will show up in their padawan robes and lightsabers for an opening day at DHS when that addition has its grand ceremonial introduction - cosplay heaven! If people don't see the potential for Star Wars as a money printing machine in Orlando (or Anaheim) they should think again.

I also don't get why people think that money is not being spent in Orlando - and yes, what is happening to DTD should absolutely be considered a large capital venture. Consider the following list:

1. DTD expansion - this is huge
2. Pandora expansion
3. Rivers of Light nighttime show
4. Night safaris
5. Capacity expansions everywhere in DAK for both food and merch
6. New TS restaurant in DAK
7. African Marketplace expansion for Harambe
8. The Hub expansion
9. New Jungle Cruise TS in Adventureland
10. Refurbs for Astro Orbiter, TTA, all of MSUSA, etc.
11. Soarin' expansion
12. Frozen addition/expansion in the Norway Pavilion
13. New additions coming to Innoventions East/West
14. Toy Story Midway Mania expansion
15. New DHS Flex Theater
16. The Polynesian Village Refurb
17. Wilderness Lodge Pool Refurb
18. Beach Club 20 month hard goods refurbishment
19. Grand Floridian 20 month hard goods refurbishment
20. Everyone's favorite enhancement - MM+

Not to mention, things recently completed:

21. New Fantasyland expansion (including 7DMT)
22. New bus load/unload for MK
23. GF DVC villas
24. New buses (including cool bendy busses)
25. Spice Road Table
26. Trattoria al Forno
27. Test Track redo

When I look at this list, Disney is definitely pumping money into WDW, and on a variety of different initiatives. I think the big problem for most people is that the construction is so spread out and all over the greater resort area, that it takes forever for something to be completed. Universal seems very good at targeting one, or just a few things, and really bangs it out fast. I have always felt that there is a long range plan to prepare this sight for WDW's 50th anniversary in 2021. That, though, is why the progress seems so slow. That and also the financial impact is obviously lessened when spread out over time. There has been a lot of focus on MK, DTD and now DAK. This will soon shift to focus more on DHS and EPCOT as DS and DAK are completed. That being said, expect to see more additions to the list, including Pixar and Star Wars lands in DHS. I have also heard rumors that new fireworks shows are being developed for both MK and EPCOT. There should be new DVC work being done in Wilderness Lodge soon as well. It seems to never end.

 

[rteetz]

I was really commenting on the construction schedule...

More the reality that this is their second "grand plan" to redo the whole district and what they're rolled out so far is sunglasses hut and a flip flop shop.

They're trying to pump the boathouse currently...but it sure seems like hyper retail specialty restaurant nonsense...
They already have that all over property and they're now "pushing the envelope"

The boathouse isn't doing so well selling its amphicar tours and rumors have it the other boat tours that are planned may be cancelled before they even start.

 

[beer dave]

Refurb is the wrong word for these things. These projects are much larger undertakings.

potato... potato....... huh-- that saying kind of looses it's effect when in writing.... potahto---- hows that? Or in the DTD case, potato potatoes.

 

[rteetz]

potato... potato....... huh-- that saying kind of looses it's effect when in writing.... potahto---- hows that? Or in the DTD case, potato potatoes.

I find refurb like when an attraction goes down for a month to get some fixing up or some plusing. Expansion and redo are better terms for Disney springs because it's changing its name and basically doubling its size. It's a massive project whether your for it or not.

 

[circus4u]

I'm not following here...

Backlot closed permenantly in January without a peep.

It's in mothballs as currently situated.

This person had spammed about five of the topics in this forum. One of the posts appeared to be an advertisement. Looks like they were all removed by the monitor.

 

[3 Hobbits 2 Disney]

Re Boathouse Amphibicars-- $120 for 25 minutes for 3 people is a lot of money. Love the concept but yikes! Re: DHS - would love to see something like a doors ride from Monsters Inc.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The boathouse isn't doing so well selling its amphicar tours and rumors have it the other boat tours that are planned may be cancelled before they even start.

Because their drive to extract more money for what largely remains the same vacation experience on all fronts is relentless and there are limits to what people will spend... Perhaps?

 

[rteetz]

Re Boathouse Amphibicars-- $120 for 25 minutes for 3 people is a lot of money. Love the concept but yikes! Re: DHS - would love to see something like a doors ride from Monsters Inc.

If you split it three ways it looks cheaper

 

[wallrock]

While I agree to trust the shovels. I don't see a Star Wars attraction going in the backlot. I think they stay in the echo lake area. With that said I think within the next year we will see an announcement of big things coming to DHS or whatever it will be called soon after.

I was using the backlot as an example. The point of the statement is that the layout of the park isn't conducive to large volumes of flowing human traffic no matter where you plug in the big ticket items. The Villians Unleashed event pretty much proved that.

As far as 'big things coming'...the same statements were made in early 2014 for DHS, and perhaps even earlier than that. Here we are nearly a third of the way through 2015 and all we've had in the official announcement world from Disney are closures.

 

[George4]

Because their drive to extract more money for what largely remains the same vacation experience on all fronts is relentless and there are limits to what people will spend... Perhaps?

I have been advocating this point for a quite a while. I'm not sure that Disney realizes that people don't feel like a vacation there is worth their dollar any longer. It is a small percentage right now, but that group will grow as more and more profit is "extracted" from customers. Once a customer is determined not to go someplace, it is incredibly difficult to change their mind to give it another chance.

 

[George4]

1. DTD expansion - this is huge
2. Pandora expansion
3. Rivers of Light nighttime show
4. Night safaris
5. Capacity expansions everywhere in DAK for both food and merch
6. New TS restaurant in DAK
7. African Marketplace expansion for Harambe
8. The Hub expansion
9. New Jungle Cruise TS in Adventureland
10. Refurbs for Astro Orbiter, TTA, all of MSUSA, etc.
11. Soarin' expansion
12. Frozen addition/expansion in the Norway Pavilion
13. New additions coming to Innoventions East/West
14. Toy Story Midway Mania expansion
15. New DHS Flex Theater
16. The Polynesian Village Refurb
17. Wilderness Lodge Pool Refurb
18. Beach Club 20 month hard goods refurbishment
19. Grand Floridian 20 month hard goods refurbishment
20. Everyone's favorite enhancement - MM+

Not to mention, things recently completed:

21. New Fantasyland expansion (including 7DMT)
22. New bus load/unload for MK
23. GF DVC villas
24. New buses (including cool bendy busses)
25. Spice Road Table
26. Trattoria al Forno
27. Test Track redo

I hate quoting this whole list, but I think it is an important part of my thoughts. As you look over most of this list, very little of it relates to increased capacity for customers (to lessen waits for attractions). Most of it is geared towards increasing the number of people that can get into the parks without adding in-park capacity. Things like hotel improvements, new and larger buses, hub expansions, Maelstrom for Frozen ride trade, moving theaters from one place to another, etc. don't improve the customers experience, they simply get more customers into the parks.

The items that should increase capacity are still a year or more away (TSMM, Pandora, etc.) are still a year or more away. If you increase the park capacity by 10% between now and then, and only add 2% more attraction capacity, you aren't solving your problem, you are exacerbating it. Could they do more to make things better, absolutely! Was New Fantasyland helpful? To some extent, because some of it was an expansion, but you had to get rid of toontown to do it, which was simply trading one attraction for another. They probably did expand some capacity for MK with this one, but not a huge amount.

You have MK virtually busting at the seems for half the year. EPCOT is busting at the seems for some attractions, and completely empty for others. DHS doesn't even have many all day visitors any more, so you get your gate visit checked, but they don't really stay the whole day, so you are losing potential revenue by not having them stick around.

They need to start focusing on fixing one problem at a time - similar to what they did with Disney Springs. Spend 2 years and completely overhaul all of the issues with an area, not spending 2-5 years each on 20 different solutions. Sit down with all of the decision-makers and ask what is wrong in each park, now and 10 years down the road. Give the list to the Imagineers and give them 6 months to come up with a plan to solve 80%+ of those issues. Get the ball rolling on a plan instead of looking at the pile of money they keep pulling in. Once the pile starts to shrink, it will be hard to make it grow again. Learn from the mistakes of Kodak, early IBM, and to some extent Apple - you can't rest on your laurels once you have made one great product. You have to keep reinvesting in that product to keep it growing. When you get complacent is when things completely fall apart. Disney is starting to get complacent because they don't see the end of the money. Neither did the real estate market in 2007.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I have been advocating this point for a quite a while. I'm not sure that Disney realizes that people don't feel like a vacation there is worth their dollar any longer. It is a small percentage right now, but that group will grow as more and more profit is "extracted" from customers. Once a customer is determined not to go someplace, it is incredibly difficult to change their mind to give it another chance.

Indeed...
Somebody once made a quote that is the perfect counterbalance to driving away consumers the way you are describing (and I 100% believe):

"In the end...quality will win out" (directly and paraphrased 100 times)

I think it was confucsious

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The "expanded capacity" in magic kingdom is filling in the lagoons for firework viewing and the path past little mermaid...

That's it.

If you want to Include huge lines at the Anna and Elsa meet and greet and the mine train...as capacity...

Well then jeez...how little is the money worth to you.
That's not what Disney would have you believe it is - 'magical memories to last a lifetime'

It's a decade+ of poor planning/lack of initiative to make a real improvement.

 

[George4]

The "expanded capacity" in magic kingdom is filling in the lagoons for firework viewing and the path past little mermaid...

That's it.

If you want to Include huge lines at the Anna and Elsa meet and greet and the mine train...as capacity...

Well then jeez...how little is the money worth to you.
That's not what Disney would have you believe it is - 'magical memories to last a lifetime'

It's a decade+ of poor planning/lack of initiative to make a real improvement.

I don't really disagree with you , but with the New Fantasyland, they added BOG restaurant, Little Mermaid Ride, SDMT, the Circus area, and a second Dumbo and they only removed the Mickey village/Toon Town area. That was a net gain, although not substantial versus the substantial number of visitors each day since the last real expansion in MK (1983 or 86 I think). You are correct that it is a lost decade, and in that decade they have lost a lot of future repeat customers. I just don't think they really realize that yet, and when they do, it could be too late.