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Help I Need to Know the GOOD, BAD and the UGLY about Purchasing DVC!

Discussion in 'Purchasing DVC' started by shaycamp21, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. dhorner233

    dhorner233 Disneyophile

    Oh, okay. I just read somewhere there were 4 main ones. I see the ad on this page in front of my face now that you mention it :goodvibes

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  3. bakerworld

    bakerworld Mouseketeer

    The Good: onsite accommodations at moderate stay price

    The Bad: you're making the cheapest items in the 'pkg' deal cheaper but the expensive items are still there - tickets, dinning, spending

    The Ugly: short planned trips are gone unless you're really easy to please. We used to always plan about 4 months out and that is pretty much gone because as much as we like the larger resorts they all mean big bus time and we're not into buses.
  4. dhorner233

    dhorner233 Disneyophile

    I swear I heard the CM on the phone say that when you bought a DVC time share, it was yours for 49 years. But, I haven't seen that written anywhere. Is that true?
  5. lodge

    lodge Mouseketeer

    If you purchase a new resort... The exact dates of each resorts expiration can be found in the Purchasing DVC Stickie....lots of good info there.
  6. disneynutz

    disneynutz <br><img src="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/i

    Depends on when the resort was released for sale by Disney.

    New resorts start at 50 years.

    :earsboy: Bill
  7. SarahInMN

    SarahInMN Really my username should be SarahInOR now

    This is the best piece of advice, IMHO. Know yourself! We knew we would only be happy at an EPCOT resort (no monorail resorts were built when we purchased) because we like being able to walk to parks and wanted a "quieter" resort, so we bought BCV because we'd be disappointed if we had to stay somewhere else during F&W but that's just us. We have friends who love, love, love Saratoga and hate staying at BCV.

    We would only buy at a place where we'll be happy staying and would not buy at a less expensive price with the gamble of being able to book at 7 months out.

    The AP discount is nice, the TiW is also nice, but it is a huge cost upfront. That said we only would stay at a deluxe on cash, so for us it feels like a great deal (especially since with a 1 bedroom we get a kitchen, washer/dryer, king bed, and a separate shower).
  8. Deb & Bill

    Deb & Bill DVC-Trivia Contest, Apr-2006: Honorable Mention

    All DVC resorts have an end date. That date doesn't change no matter when you buy your points for that resort. Many of the original resorts have an end date of Jan 31, 2042. OKW has two end dates, Jan 31, 2042 and Jan 31, 2057.
  9. dhorner233

    dhorner233 Disneyophile

    Thanks. Guess I'm still learning how to navigate around the Disboards.

    Ooooohhhhhh! Thanks!
  10. lovin'fl

    lovin'fl Mouseketeer

    Great post! So true!

    The good: We bought in to get a villa (separate bedroom for us parents and washer/dryer and big jetted tub and kitchen and balcony...) and there was NO WAY we could pay cash for a stay in a villa on Disney property (way too much $$$). With 5 of us (now 3 are teens), this space is really important. We started off, in 2006, staying in 1BR villas and now we need a 2BR. If we didn't have DVC, we surely wouldn't be doing WDW trips (we'd have to rent a condo off site...and that just isn't the same to me and wouldn't make me want to go to WDW).

    The bad: We quickly discovered that our WDW trips were still costing a ton of $$$ because of park tickets and dining and airfare (once we moved 5 hours north). But, we found a way to work around that slightly. We get APs and do 2-3 trips using them (in that 12 months) and then the following year we use our DVC points to do a beach trip (did HH and VB...added on HH points just for this purpose and we will go there every other year, like next year). Now, this year we bought the PAPs that were offered last winter at a great low price for DVC members...so you sometimes get some great perks. Trip #2, this year, is coming up for Food and Wine (sans kiddos...can't wait). And for dining...I recommend getting the TIW card. So....you can work around the bad (all the costs)...or at least minimize it a bit.

    The ugly: Nothing Disney can be done on short notice anymore...ADRs and now FP+....uggghhh. So, I have learned (and I actually enjoy) how to be a great WDW trip planner. We go with extended family a lot (SIL also owns DVC and MIL/FIL pay us to use 100 of our points each year) and I plan out the trips for us all. And if you are happy to stay at any of the DVC resorts, well then it won't be so bad to plan a trip on shorter notice. We have our order of preference, but ultimately are glad to be at WDW in any of the DVC resorts. There are some times that are tougher to book on shorter notice than other times. So, it does take some effort and early planning sometimes to get the trip you want.

    Good luck in your decision. And if you decide to buy, happy hunting for your contract (I also recommend buying via resale).
  11. crisi

    crisi DIS Veteran

    Also know that with a family of five, you can't stay in Studios (except at the VGF - its possible that at some point in the future more "sleep 5 studios will be added). IF you are comfortable in a sleeps five Deluxe hotel room, DVC isn't likely to save you money as you must move to a one bedroom. But the one bedrooms are wonderful (and the two more so with teenagers).

    My rule is that I get nervous when people ask if DVC is for them and talk about saving money. It is my opinion, backed up by observation of what people on these boards talk about, that few of us SAVE money (and if that is the priority, I'd rent an offsite timeshare through Skyauction). Most of us trade a little more money for a better experience. I don't think the rooms are as nice as Deluxes, and I like daily housekeeping - for me the better experience is having space away from my kids and having a washer dryer in the room and making up a few eggs in the morning for breakfast. Other people have other opinions.

    And a few people do save money - they were staying in regular Deluxe hotel rooms and stick to studios - they don't suddenly take extra trips or bring family - if they stay in a room with a kitchen, they make more use out of it than cocoa puffs in the morning and save on dining expenses.

    I see nothing in your post that leads me to believe you are driven to this primarily because it will be cheap (it won't be), but that you believe it will be better (it likely will).

    I will take someone's post above on the ugly and expand - Disney is a business. DVC is a division of that business - specifically the timeshare arm - if the word timeshare scares you, well, that is the reality of DVC - it isn't a club, or a piece of the Mouse (buy stock if you want that), its a timeshare. When you are tied to them a little closer through a decades long legal contract, sometimes you see the underbelly of the business perhaps much closer than someone booking a pixie dust package will. They'll make decisions not because they bring us delight, but because they maximize profitability - in some cases, those two might intersect and we are all happy. In other cases, we are disappointed. They also have a legal obligation to be good stewards of our dues - which means that what delights you needs to be paid for by all of us - if its not going to delight the majority of us and give us value for our dues - DVC isn't likely to do it.
  12. Plutofan

    Plutofan Mouseketeer

    I would only buy DVC if I planed on using the points at DVC resorts. You do not typically get a fair value when using points to trade outside of DVC or using points for a Disney cruise.
  13. Andrew015

    Andrew015 WL Guru

    Many people here keeping citing the high costs of DVC ownership as a bad thing. If anyone  DVC or non DVC member - expects to stay in any Deluxe WDW accommodations cheaply, then Im not sure if your expectations are real. WDW is one of the most expensive places to vacation in the U.S. no matter how you slice it. For those of us who enjoy annual or semi-annual WDW getaways, DVC is a vehicle for locking in the resort portion of your annual vacation costs at todays rates. If you buy into DVC through resale, then you can significantly reduce the initial investment cost, but you still must be cognizant of the annual maintenance fees, which will always be there and will increase year over year.

    In the long run - and people must look at this investment in terms of a 30, 40 or 50 year commitment (depending on the resort that you are buying into) - DVC can save a significant amount of money on the resort portion of your annual WDW vacations. Yes  you still have to pay for park tickets, food and transportation to and from. DVC ownership offers perks that can and does save money on many of those things as well& such as AP discounts, TIW membership, DME complimentary transportation, etc. However, those perks could be taken away at a moments notice. I dont suspect that these perks will go anywhere anytime soon, but one should not count on these discounts being there indefinitely as part of their financial justification for purchasing into DVC.

    Ive posted this in other threads, and my case might be different than others, but this is worth sharing. My 2012 purchase of VWL (resale) virtually paid for itself within the first two years of ownership on one trip alone. I purchased my interest in early 2012. I used all of my 2012 and 2013 points for a 10 day stay in two studios at VWL this past May. In looking at the total cost of my resale investment including closing costs, plus my 2013 maintenance fees, my total buy came in virtually identical to what it would have cost me for two rooms at WL for 10 days out of pocket. So essentially, I have broken even on the initial buy-in with just one trip and two years of ownership. Moving forward, the resort portion of all future Disney vacations will just cost me my maintenance fees, which are currently around $870 per year. So next years 10 day vacation at VWL is going to run me about $96/night. Comparing that to well over $300/night cash, Id say that the cost of ownership should definitely fall into the good category rather than the bad.

    Once again, this is my experience only. If you choose to buy direct from Disney and/or choose to finance, then your payback period will be significantly longer than 2 years before you start saving money. Its ultimately up to each individual family to determine what is right for you. There are many factors that play into the financial justification, and for me, buying DVC via resale was a no-brainer. Your experience may vary. Arm yourself with as much information as possible, ask tons of questions (even if you think theyre stupid or have been asked a number of times), and make the best decision for your situation.
  14. Deb & Bill

    Deb & Bill DVC-Trivia Contest, Apr-2006: Honorable Mention

    BUT, if you would never book the exact same lodging for cash direct from Disney without any discount, your numbers are flawed.

    We usually stay in a one bedroom villa (or larger) using our points. But the times we pay cash, we don't stay in one bedroom villas. We book moderates at AP rates or deluxes with big discounts (those are rare anymore). Big difference.
  15. radmcg

    radmcg Member

    I second what Plutofan said. I would not buy If I weren't going to DW at least every 2 years. I purchased DVC in 2012 and used it that December. Since then we have been 4 times taking family with us each time. Something I would have never done had I had to pay cash for the rooms. In the 3 years before that we stayed at the polynesian twice and the boardwalk 3 times. Had I already owned I would be pretty close to breaking even. That being said I do not believe DVC saves me money personally. It does exactly what Disney intended it to do, it makes me go more and experience the resorts in ways I never would have had I been going on cash. If you go to DW frequently I think DVC is great but I would not buy to "save money". It just makes you want to go more.:)
  16. Andrew015

    Andrew015 WL Guru

    I don't quite understand how the logic is flawed. We needed two rooms for our May trip at Wilderness Lodge, regardless of whether or not I owned DVC. What we would have paid for these rooms on a cash reservation was equal to the cost of my initial DVC investment. I'm not talking about rack rates, either. I'm comparing this against figures that I have actually paid in previous trips prior to my DVC ownership, some of which were with AP discounts. Whichever accomodations I choose to stay at for future trips is irrelevant, as the investment already paid for itself on this one trip alone.

    I think what you are trying to convey is this. If you do not always stay in Deluxe accommodations, perhaps DVC is not worth the investment? This statement I would agree with. It does not apply to me, as my Disney vacations always revolve around staying at Wilderness Lodge, my home away from home.
  17. crisi

    crisi DIS Veteran

    Yep. We'd be able to put four in a standard hotel room - with DVC we happily get a two bedroom - but it isn't cheaper. Without DVC we'd go every three or four years - and probably be done by now - with DVC it was every other year with at least one more trip to go. With DVC, its always been onsite - without DVC, we'd probably have spent the last trip at Windsor Hills or Bonnet Creek.

    DVC being expensive isn't a good thing, or a bad thing - its sort of a neutral thing - IF you can afford it. But a lot of people don't realize how much its going to add up over time. Its six figures in dues over the life of your contract. PLUS food, transportation and park tickets (and those under three kids are Disney adults in the blink of an eye). Or aren't disciplined in its use - a lot of us take friends and family on our points - would you pay for your brother's family's hotel room? And there should be the recognition that you give up some flexibility - without DVC there may be years where offsite or Pop make more financial sense - even if you are currently a "we'd only stay Deluxe" family (like the year you get your FAFSA score :)).

    Andrew - with a certain sized family and the desire to remain onsite, DVC makes more financial sense than a lot of the alternatives (although my frugal cousin does the cabins at Ft. Wilderness with her brood).
  18. jillmc40

    jillmc40 Mouseketeer

    I have a question about comparing the price if dvc to a cash stay. I recently made a spreadsheet that totals up when I would break even. When figuring out how much it would cost me I put in the cash price column how much it would be to rent points, not stay on cash. That price is pretty different and I am wondering if I am missing something with my math or logic doing that. I would not stay at a value or a moderate. The times in the past when I stayed on property I either rented points or payed cash for gf with a ap discount. Now that Vgf will be there I would rent points. Or do you think my logic of always thinking I could rent points is wrong? Or am I just being anal retentive? ;)
  19. lovin'fl

    lovin'fl Mouseketeer

    I think you've made a good comparison as that is how you would typically stay at WDW.

    We 1st stayed at POR (a moderate) when my 3 kids were little and then bought DVC the following year. We knew that 5 of us could not stay in a regular WDW room, moderate or deluxe (just too cramped for us). We needed condo or villa style accommodations. We would not pay cash to book a villa on DVC property and would have to go off property and that would take away the magic for me and we likely wouldn't have gone (or go) as often (or at all). While it would not be reasonable for me to compare my owning DVC to paying cash for a villa (same accommodations), I also cannot compare to renting a regular room as we just would NOT do that (maybe would rent 2, like we tend to do with hotel visits in other places). Trying to find a comparison is difficult unless you already always stay in certain accommodations at WDW...like you do.

    Just to see, I just checked our Dec dates at POR...for 1 room it is $1423 (12/20-12/25). We are booked in a 2BR at AKV-Kadani. So, 2 rooms at POR would be $2846. We used 189 points. $3280 for a room at AKL...so $6560 for 2 rooms...yikes!
  20. Andrew015

    Andrew015 WL Guru

    I now see the point that you are trying to make, and I apologize, as I had assumed that we were comparing the cost of DVC as compared to other, similar deluxe accommodations. Absolutely – when comparing the cost of a DVC purchase to the cost of staying in value or moderate resort, then DVC becomes increasingly difficult to justify. As mentioned above, for my situation, it was a no-brainer based on my vacation habits, as WL is my go-to spot.

    Jill – Without seeing the spreadsheet, I cannot really comment on your math or logic. A few things that I can recommend is to take a historical look at year-over-year maintenance fee increases, come up with an average % for that particular resort, and be sure to factor in these annual increases into your calculations. Be sure to also apply similar logic on the “cash” side by taking into account price increases on cash reservations. Other things to consider on a DVC purchase are misc. transactional expenses like closing costs, title fees, brokerage fees, etc., all of which are negotiable between you and the seller. I can’t offer much insight on developing a model for comparing a DVC purchase vs renting points, as I do not have much experience with this, but I know that renting can be a cost-effective option (if you have some patience to get what you want or the flexibility to take whatever is available at that time). I believe the average going rate these days is $14/point via the main brokers.
  21. jillmc40

    jillmc40 Mouseketeer

    I have a column for MF's and I add 4% every year to it, since I thought I heard that seems to be the average. I was really just wondering why people used the cash number instead of the renting points number. I guess if nothing was available on the points side you would have to pay cash, but I doubt I would...Comparing it that way (renting points) I certainly don't break even for a while, but I am ok with it since I am 99% guaranteed VGF in December if I want it :cool1:

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