Has Disney let Universal Catch Up In All Market Segments?

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by Planogirl
So do I understand correctly that you want to avoid the teenage market? Unfortunately, many of us travel with kids approaching that age or already in it. As for "un-supervised, rowdy teenagers", we were at the parks during the annual cheerleader onslaught and I never saw so many unsupervised kids. But they weren't rowdy and strangely enough, didn't bother us at all. However, they were for the most part at the Disney parks so be careful, VERY careful....

There is the key word in the above post, "annual", it only happens once a year.

As for "un-supervised, rowdy teenagers", we were at the parks during the annual cheerleader onslaught and I never saw so many unsupervised kids.

I have noticed, as well as others that I've been on vacation with, that the behaviors and attitudes of certain groups differ between those at Disney and at Universal.

I'm fairly comfortable with the same old, same old even if it is shrinking a bit but kids seems to often want something new as they grow and Disney has quit being that something new.

So if every vacation down to Florida and you went to Universal your fourth grader wouldn't start to get bored either? Wouldn't it then start to be the "same old, same old"?

 

[Testtrack321]

I've seen we got a few more regular USF posters here than usual and let me tell you something, UC is still behind WDI. I'd hardly call the crapy AA in CitH better than Pooh with their vehicles.

As is best said by Jefferson Airplane in White Rabbit:

'Some pills make you large
Some pills make you small
The ones you mom gives you
don't do anything at all.'

UC hasn't all of a sudden developed a niche market of coasters and dark ride kids. People, you are kidding youselves here. Almost all of the people who go to USF or IoA are from Orlando and many still don't know about, or distinguish between, the two parks. Yet they can tell you what Epcot, Animal Kingdom, MGM, and MK are.

Don't cry to me about how we have more advertising power. Then why dosn't Universal plug in some things with the Spiderman ride and the movie?

 

[DisneyKidds]

I don't care how many smilies and twirling heads you use. Is that really all you got out of it? It sure is the impression you give. Or perhaps a good quip coupled with smilies is all you want?

OK Baron. Let's reaffirm the ground rules. This is all fun discussion. Now let's take the gloves off. No more smilies. No more cute attempts to get you to say something meaningful on the subject. Here it is. I got what you were saying about why you were in car 3. The other statements in your position make sense based on what I know of yourself. I can accept what you said and I got a lot out of it, even if I don't completely agree. However, on the subject at hand................

You made a rediculous statement regarding Universal catching up in every market segment. You are good at using bolds and caps when you want to make a point. Judging by your use of bold it would appear you were really making a point. So I try and get some discussion from you. You won't bite. A few quips. You still won't bite - other than to say your bold statement wasn't what you meant. You back away from your original statement and say virtually. I still find that to be WRONG!!!! and attempt to get you to elaborate on your thoughts. I thought you could perhaps elaboate on all the market segments you are referring to - but I get nothing. You hide behind nonsense and I have to ask why?

Do you know your statement to be incorrect? Is it just a gut feel with no basis to back it up? Do you just not feel like talking? What's the deal?

Heck, I get called to the mat because I (correctly) said months ago that a visit to the Bronx Zoo cost closer to $30 than $8. You make a very bold recent statement regarding Universal and I can't ask you to at least discuss it?

If that particular statement in that particular post was just you being caught up in the moment, say so. If not, explain yourself. Please. If you just don't want to talk about, say that. Just say something other than your drivel about me not getting anything out of your posts.

ps - please read the correct tone in this post. I'm not annoyed. I'm not trying to be cute. I just want to talk.

 

[crusader]

People, you are kidding youselves here. Almost all of the people who go to USF or IoA are from Orlando and many still don't know about, or distinguish between, the two parks.

who's kidding whom here.

So if every vacation down to Florida and you went to Universal your fourth grader wouldn't start to get bored either? Wouldn't it then start to be the "same old, same old"?

Probably. But this holds true for everything. If your family vacationed in WDW every single year are you more or less likely to repeat this annual tradition as an adult? There are those who grew up this way and have not returned.

 

[mojo-jojo]

ok guys i have been a lurker at the disboards for some time. And let me first say this i am a teenager, and im proud to be one. There's been a lot of talk about how Universal is for the "teenager" market. And that is completely true. Universal stands out of all the theme parks i have been to (trust me i been to a lot). Whats strikes me the most is that they dont try to be disney, they make there own magic. They know what Disney lacks, and makes it there strong point. They know that roller coasters bring in the people. They know that they will actually have to spend money to keep there theme parks looking nice. They know who they are catering to. I know there are a lot of die hard disney fans out there, and a few Universal die hards (myself included). But everyone seems to forget that a theme park is suppose to entertain people. Universal entertains me. DisneyKidds, Disney entertains you. Now to get back on topic here. I strongly believe that Universal has taken away from SOME of Disney's market, manly because of the market of adults and teenagers that want something more to there vacation.

Ooh and by the way

"Almost all of the people who go to USF or IoA are from Orlando and many still don't know about, or distinguish between, the two parks. Yet they can tell you what Epcot, Animal Kingdom, MGM, and MK are" Testtrack321

Of course they do. Everyone knows that Epcot is the learning one, MGM is the movie one and so on. Both Universal parks are in the same manner they both offer thrills compared to what Disney does and combine a theme and put it into one park.


"Don't cry to me about how we have more advertising power. Then why dosn't Universal plug in some things with the Spiderman ride and the movie?" Testtrack321

Well Universal doesnt own the rights to the movie of Spiderman, a little known company called Sony owns it. And by the way Universal is advertising the Hulk movie, which they do own the movie rights.

 

[Planogirl]

Originally posted by HauntedMansionFan
There is the key word in the above post, "annual", it only happens once a year.

I have noticed, as well as others that I've been on vacation with, that the behaviors and attitudes of certain groups differ between those at Disney and at Universal.

So if every vacation down to Florida and you went to Universal your fourth grader wouldn't start to get bored either? Wouldn't it then start to be the "same old, same old"?

As pertaining to the cheerleader groups, it does happen only once a year. From August to March to be precise according to a cheerleader Mom I spoke to. They appear to have many different events and levels and there's always something going on during those times.

So what you're saying is that the teenagers at Disney tend to be nice while those at Universal tend to be rowdy? That seems to be a bit biased but luckily we never dealt with problem teenagers at ANY of the parks. I certainly believe you when you say that the Universal parks can attract a wilder group because these parks definitely have more of an edge and a less sanitized approach than the Disney parks. I can well imagine that the Halloween celebration is an "interesting" event.

My child has been to WDW nine times now and Universal once. If he becomes bored with Universal after nine trips there I can see your point. But only time will tell particularly with Universal building new APPEALING things. As it is per the kid, Mickey and the other characters are cool but really for "little kids" but Universal has Spiderman and X-Men and the MIB just please don't make him go to Barney! And yes Jimmy Neutron and Shrek just happen to be favorites. At least both companies have dinosaurs.

We can go round and round about this forever. I can only go by my experiences as you can only go by yours. That doesn't make either of us right, we're just seeing different things going on here. I'm VERY glad that your perceptions are still good for you. I hope to get back to Car Number 2 but it just doesn't look real good at this time.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by Planogirl
So what you're saying is that the teenagers at Disney tend to be nice while those at Universal tend to be rowdy? That seems to be a bit biased but luckily we never dealt with problem teenagers at ANY of the parks. I certainly believe you when you say that the Universal parks can attract a wilder group because these parks definitely have more of an edge and a less sanitized approach than the Disney parks. I can well imagine that the Halloween celebration is an "interesting" event.

No, what I was saying was is that you tend to see less teenagers at Disney then you do at Universal. But kids are kids......

 

[All Aboard]

Almost all of the people who go to USF or IoA are from Orlando

I'd venture to guess that it's much fewer than half, certainly not "almost all." The on-site resorts will hold around 20% of their guests. There are many hotels very close by which were built in the last few years as a result of Universal growth. Plus, there are many WDW guests who venture up to Universal. [watch what happens when it starts raining at Universal, thousands of yellow Mickey ponchos come out.]

Universal does have a higher percentage of locals than WDW, but "almost all" is a big overstatement.

 

[DisneyKidds]

mojo - thanks for coming out of lurk mode. I always love it when a thread coaxes someone out of the shadows. I appreciate your perspective .

They (Universal) know who they are catering to.

Yes. This is something that Disney has forgotten to a certain extent.

I strongly believe that Universal has taken away from SOME of Disney's market, manly because of the market of adults and teenagers that want something more to there vacation.

I agree with you, especially on the teens. They have taken some of Disney's market. They will take more, for a variety of reasons. They are catching up in a few areas, but it seems most would agree they have not caught up. I don't believe they ever will completely. Now that isn't to say that there is anything wrong with Universal. They are great parks that have a lot to offer. However, knowing the specific market they are catering to so well kind of precludes them from catching Disney. That is not a bad thing and is not a knock on Universal in any way. I hope you don't think I am putting Universal down when I say they won't catch Disney, especially not in every market segment.

 

[YoHo]

Scoop, I only agree with the DL comparison, BECAUSE of the recent boneheaded decision by Disney managment to turn DL into a resort complex. Disneyland on its own attempts to be no more then a single park.

Yes, Walt was upset about the other companies coming in and ruining the area around Disnyeland, but he never intended to make a full blown resort there in he first place.

universal on the other hand IS trying to become the all inclusive type resort. So in some sense Universal Orlando is trying to be WDW on Disneyland's property. I think its safe to say that they suceeded in that better then Disney did itself.

 

[Patch'sD]

My God, 10 pages of posts to praise or bash WDW or USO. It took this thread to stop the complaints about 3 or 4 Chicken Fingers and reduced services and defend Disney's honor with regard to how it compares to Universal. It is amasing to see the same people who complain about Disney's business practices defend the resort to their Death.

Let's get one thing straight Disney is no Universal and Universal is no Disney. They are both competing for the Orlando destination travel dollar. The only winner here is you and I. Rather than getting two parks (MK and EPCOT), you now have what ( SW, MGM, USF, AK, IOA and DC). What about the water parks rather than two now there are five. Entertainment options no longer just Church Street Station.

Like thrill rides go to IOA. Like Disney Characters and tame rides go to MK. Got your Grandma traveling with you go to EPCOT. Want to see some shows got to MGM and AK. It's your choice. Don't like Roller Coasters don't go to IOA at least you have a choice. Don't like to See Steel Superstructures don't go to IOA and please don't walk to far down from Splash Mountain. I think there is one overthere too.

I happened to like Cat in the Hat and the tracks never bothered me. I hope that guy never looks up in Peter Pans Magic Flight, he will be bummed. As for Roller Coaster Super Structures. Hulk fits in very well with the Theme from Marvel Super Heros as does Fear Fall. And I have allways enjoyed watching the near misses on Duelling Dragons. And please do take a look at the themeing at the Queue there, nothing in Disney even comes close to that Queue.

To Me and Mine Universal meets our needs quite well That is why after a two year absense we will be returning to USO for three or four days, staying at on-site resort that means something, and having a blast. The PRODUCT : Entertainment for a Preteen and Teen as well as ourselves. PRICE : A great deal for three or four day getaway. PLACE : Great Travel Destination, If we want maybe will take a day trip to MK. ( Look we are not teenagers and not from Orlando Area). PROMOTION not your ordinary theme park. You enjoy yours and I will enjoy mine, We both win.

 

[All Aboard]

And now for something completely different...

I'm anxious to see the reaction when I check in at the Hard Rock Hotel on Friday night and present my Disney Visa card as payment.

 

[raidermatt]

It is amasing to see the same people who complain about Disney's business practices defend the resort to their Death.

Its been said many times, but why not again...

You're talking about two different things. The direction WDW is being taken vs. where it stands today. By throwing Universal into the mix, a third variable is added. So its very easy to think that WDW is going in the wrong direction, has diminished its experience, yet is still better than Universal.

 

[TDC Nala]

Here's some drivel from another lurker.

I'm a pessimist, but I think Disney has Universal breathing down its neck like that Jurassic Park t-rex who is closer than he appears in the rearview mirror. I don't like that idea. I'm a Disney fan.

If Universal ever builds a Harry Potter park, Disney can say goodbye to the 8-12 age group, and JK Rowling will end up as the richest person in the world (if she isn't already).

I've heard pretty much unanimously that the Universal hotels are far superior to anything Disney has, but right now the Front Of The Line access thing is the real draw. I know many who are spending a couple of nights over at Universal just to get that. You can also get a room in most any Universal hotel for less than you can at a Disney deluxe if you know where to look. I think Disney has far too many hotels to implement this sort of thing effectively. It would have to do it only for the deluxe hotels and that would probably cause more trouble than it's worth.

Universal APs are a LOT cheaper than Disney's. Universal has discounts. Disney does not.

Personally I prefer Disney. I can't imagine spending more than a day apiece at IOA or Universal Studios. But I'm getting to be in the minority.

And then there's the fact that Disney has a problem with deciding which rides to add. If it adds adult thrill rides, the family group will be mad. If it adds family-type rides, the adult thrill ride group will be mad. If it adds both, both groups will be mad. I think Universal is well suited having a "thrill ride" park and a "non-thrill" park because it can add to either or both and market accordingly.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by Patch'sD
I happened to like Cat in the Hat and the tracks never bothered me. I hope that guy never looks up in Peter Pans Magic Flight, he will be bummed.

That would be me, and I never said anything about the tracks that carry the cars.. I said that it is pretty bad that they don't even try to cover up where and how the animatronics move. And for the record, I don't look up at Peter Pan's flight. Why? My eye is drawn to other things, unlike at Cat in the Hat where my eye is drawn to the character as it runs alongs its very visible track.

 

[Planogirl]

Originally posted by TDC Nala
I've heard pretty much unanimously that the Universal hotels are far superior to anything Disney has, but right now the Front Of The Line access thing is the real draw. I know many who are spending a couple of nights over at Universal just to get that. You can also get a room in most any Universal hotel for less than you can at a Disney deluxe if you know where to look. I think Disney has far too many hotels to implement this sort of thing effectively. It would have to do it only for the deluxe hotels and that would probably cause more trouble than it's worth.

Universal APs are a LOT cheaper than Disney's. Universal has discounts. Disney does not.

Personally I prefer Disney. I can't imagine spending more than a day apiece at IOA or Universal Studios. But I'm getting to be in the minority.

And then there's the fact that Disney has a problem with deciding which rides to add. If it adds adult thrill rides, the family group will be mad. If it adds family-type rides, the adult thrill ride group will be mad. If it adds both, both groups will be mad. I think Universal is well suited having a "thrill ride" park and a "non-thrill" park because it can add to either or both and market accordingly.

Besides no one expects as much from Universal. There's enough people still around insulting their parks so that Disney is expected to be a zillion times better.

Your comment about the Universal resorts really hit home. I found a good deal for the Portofino. I could have gotten a room for $169/ night and from what I understand this is far from the BEST deal. I decided not to go for it because it just couldn't be that great, it was at Universal! We toured two of the resorts and wow, did I ever make a mistake. Both Portofino and the Hard Rock are super and I can only begin to imagine what the new one must be like. Of course, they are run by Loews so I should have known better.

 

[capemom]

Originally posted by TDC Nala

I've heard pretty much unanimously that the Universal hotels are far superior to anything Disney has, but right now the Front Of The Line access thing is the real draw.

Disney resorts get my vote ... there goes the "unanimous" sentiment.

In terms of theming, service (yes. it has delined in recent years, but is still superior to UO), options, and, yes, even price at times, Disney still beats UO ... IMHO.

I also think that while FotL is a great business strategy, FP is superior in that it is available to everyone, making it more fairly spread out amongst all visitors. Even though, as we normally stay at WDW, in my own selfish way, I secretly wish they would make FP a resort perk.

 

[Testtrack321]

Originally posted by gcurling
And now for something completely different...

I'm anxious to see the reaction when I check in at the Hard Rock Hotel on Friday night and present my Disney Visa card as payment.

That's just evil..

wow...

I'm shivering....

 

[ChrisFL]

Originally posted by capemom
I also think that while FotL is a great business strategy, FP is superior in that it is available to everyone, making it more fairly spread out amongst all visitors. Even though, as we normally stay at WDW, in my own selfish way, I secretly wish they would make FP a resort perk.

Not sure if you know this or not, but Universal has its own version of FastPass called ExpressPass.

I realize it's still different than having everyone get the same experience, but I've seen a lot more positives from on-site guests than negatives from people who know about it but can't use it.

I might go look up some satellite photos again of the land that Universal owns, see if I can make some more observations about it.

Really, the only time I really notice that IOA isn't in a place by itself is on Dr. Dooms Fearfall and on Dueling Dragons (But I CAN point straight at my old High School!! hehe)

 

[KNWVIKING]

Way back at the beginning of this thread,something about the OT bothered me-sorta comparing apples & oranges- but I didn't know how to put it into words. Maybe the beginning of Baseball season helped. I want to rephrase the OT,( BTW, this analogy would work better if the Rams were still in L.A.)

Debate: Have the 49'ers allowed the Angels to catch up in all market segments ?

After years of futility, the Angels are finally champs. Attendance is up, new fans, media attention, value of franchise up, etc. Does this diminish the 49er's ? No. Are die hard 49er fans taking notice of the Angels ? Yes. Are 49er fans going to Angel games ? Yes. Are the giving up their season tickets ? NO WAY. The success of the Angels is not a threat to the 49ers.

Car 3'ers, feel free to substitute Angels with Raiders if it makes it easier to tell me why my analogy is wrong

As a side note,my analogy got me thinking about the Niners and Disney. Using a wide brush and taking several liberties, consider this:

Decades ago, the Niners/Disney were down & going nowhere. Then along comes Walsh/ME who do amazing things with the Niners/Disney and in a few years they are dynasties. Then the rest of the NFL/Theme parks see what has happened,learn the Niner/Disney system,think outside the box, and low and behold the other Teams/IOA start to catch up, winning isn't as easy. Soon Assistant Coaches/Disney Exec are looking for Head Coach/CEO positions. Niners/Disney are still competitive, still a quality team/product, but they need new blood again.......

This is where their histories divide. The Niners are aggresively trying to get the dynasty back. Several years ago, the Cincy Bengels were in the Super Bowl. Now players out number fans.