Guy with no kids spends a night in Cinderella's Suite

[MassJester]

I will say that I like the shows.. Nemo, Lion King, B&B.. those are pretty darned good. I guess they don't count?

Love those -- I liked Tarzan too. I think the quality of stage shows has definitely improved since the early 80's when I started visiting.

I will also say that I was deeply saddened when they got rid of the Golden Horseshoe at DW. I miss it. But.. things change.

I miss Captain EO (yes, yes, I know...but it was still a good show. In fact, I don't like antyhing they've done with that pavillion -- but they didn't ask me.

I do like the changes to the World of Energy (My Dad's division of Exxon put the solar arrays on the roof way back when, so I was ready to be critical of any changes). Ellen's show is fun.

I enjoyed the 20,000 leagues ride and hope it gets replaced by something equally entertaining.

The list goes on...

And yes.. I'd be thrilled if they cut the admission. But we all know THAT ain't going to happen.. So in the mean time, I will take my free four dollar churro that cost them 35c .. and eat it gladly.

J

My feeling, and it's just a feeling not born out of any research, is that admission hasn't gone up much differently than the cost of anything else over the past 25 years. If I had to target a cost cutting plan, I wouldn't hit park admission--room rates are a good place to start for me.

 

[Another Voice]

The logistics would be a nightmare.

Disneyland had a walkthrough through its castle for decades.

I guess they must of had a much larger castle...

And the logisitics of having people spend the night in castle - fire codes, plumbing, sewers, two emergency evac routes, internal support for all the new fixtures - those were easier than a walkthrough?

And what about all that "innovation" Disney keeps talking about. I guess it's just more marketing B.S.

I will say that I like the shows.. Nemo, Lion King, B&B.. those are pretty darned good. I guess they don't count?

What exactly is the new 'Nemo' show except a commerical for the DVD. Disney couldn't even bother coming up with an original story! It too is an example of marketing inplace of substance - it's real easy to resell a repackaged movie, but it's a risk to put on an original show.

Disney used to take risks. When those risks paid off people would come in the millions to see the latest new and unique offering from Disney. But there's nothing new or unique from Disney anymore. It's a giant marketing scam because it's easier and cheaper to con people than it is to honestly impress them.

 

[CanadianGuy]

I've been on the DL walkthrough.. Several times. I'm familiar with it. It's a tight fit. Its not (on my last visit) handicapped accessible.. and frankly.. it's kinda weak-sauce. And I don't recall meeting Cinderella in her sitting room on it. THAT is what would draw the crowds of princess-meeters.

The Florida park has no such walkthrough that I've ever seen. And I don't think there was ever space allotted for that kind of thing.

The castle suite had plumbing and electrical installed when the castle was built -- it was to be the Disney apartment in Florida. This would have been like the suite built above New Orleans Square at DL that is now the Art of Disney. Nothing was done to complete it till this year.

Innovention? I enjoyed Turtle Talk with Crush. I'm anxious to see how they do that with the Monster's Inc characters. It's kind of a break through thing when you see it in action. How about the Buzz Lightyear ride with the ability to interact with people on the internet? It's not the smoothest integration just yet, but it's a start and I think it's pretty darned interesting.

Vertical marketing across the corporate entity that Disney has now become is an unfortunate side effect. You got me there.

However.. The Hunchback live show that was at the Florida parks for years was something else. It was a re-telling of the movie story in a very grand form. Did you ever experience that? It was something else.

Disney tries something new, DCA for example, and people gripe that it's nothing more than a glorified Coney Island with glorified prices. Disney tried DisneyQuest, people complained that it was over-hyped and underwhelming. Disney tried Pleasure Island, and people complained that it was 'un-Disney". Disney launched the value resorts and people complained it would diminish the brand and water down the experience of staying at a Disney resort.

So, Disney also does the tried and true; sticking to the family themes of it's successful movies and those same people complain that they aren't trying new things. Which is it? Pick one.

Disney does do new things. Just not new things you LIKE. That's fair. But say as much. To say they don't try new things is another broad generalization that doesn't hold up -- like the previous one about DL in this thread. Disney tries new things all the time.. some work (Fantasmic) and some don't (LightMagic anyone?)

I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this. I guess. You have your own very firmly held opinions and I have mine. We can both do that. / and we have both hijacked this thread. (shame on us I guess)

As I've said -- I wish they'd bring park maintenance up to snuff before unloading any more new stuff. But.. I'm not running the place. So.. don't hold your breath on that "WISH."

J

 

[manning]

Walt’s philosophy was that everyone should be treated the same.

That's what frost us when you have to purchase a dessert party or have a corporate sponsor to be able to view illuminations from choice places. A CM told me they get big bucks for those locations from corporations.

 

[vancesmom]

The world is full of different opinions and different views of how things should be done. I guess this carries over to Disney as well. I respect that. As I can't agree with every "Disney" decision - I do not believe that the magic that Walt wanted to create has disappeared completely. I may as one of you said "been a fan for 5 minutes" - if 5 minutes equals my entire life of 30 years then ok.... however I know Disney. I know what it is suppose to be and I know that it may be different had Walt lived. But he sadly didn't and the world has changed. Money and Marketing aside - I just wish that everyone could see and appreciate what I still see. And I think that the fact that my first memories are of being in Disney World when I was 3 eating a frozen orange on main street speaks wonders. And this year I will return with my 4 year old son in hopes that he will remember the magic when he is my age. I think that's what Walt would have wanted.

 

[exDS vet]

Huh? Interactions between guests and cast members are part of what should make WDW a great vacation. I'm missing your point here (unless it was sarcasm) - don't you think a Disney vacation should be about more than just the characters and rides?

But does that have to be a major part of the marketing? I just heard a radio commercial today for DL. Bragging about how DL Cast Members "perform magic tricks AND create magical experiences for our Guests all the time, especially this year during our year of a million dreams." Give me a break.

I love the "especially" part. What is different about the CM's this year as opposed to any other year? Are they nicer? Better? More Professional? How many of these Cast Members have Mickey pins on their name tags? A better question would be how many CM's know the names of all 7 Dwarfs. Even that fake Eisner couldn't answer this question when asked by Barbera Walters on "The View", several years ago.

Sure, a Disney vacation should be more than about characters and rides. It should be about memorable experiences shared with family and friends. But about CM interactions? Puhleeeezzze! More people complain about bad experiences with CM's than praise the good ones. It's just a fact of life. We expect great Guest Service at Disney and nothing less. I think Disney reminding us of how great their CM's are is a bit arrogant. It sets them up for even more problems when the bad apple upsets a guest.

After this year's marketing scheme is done, they will need another one. It would be appropriate to expect a large scale celebration of Mickey Mouse's
80th birthday next year. Right? Wrong! We saw in the case of Disneyland, that they couldn't just honor "the original", they had to make it about all of the parks. So I am expecting a year or longer campaign celebrating "80 years of Disney characters". If one park couldn't have the spotlight, then a stupid mouse ain't gonna get it either. Even if it all DID start with him.

 

[CanadianGuy]

I find it interesting.

When I lived in Southern California, the Disneyland die-hards had a very 'Anaheim-centric' view of the Disney universe.

Of course those who live in Florida have a very 'Orlando-centric' view.

I live in Canada so the view of both is pretty good from here. But what I'm sensing on this thread is DL die-hards are upset. Well.. sorry.. but DL die-hards have been upset since the early 90's (and probably way before) when I actually moved to California in the first place. I don't recall one year (and this was before the internet was big) .. where Disneyland 'regulars' weren't upset about this or that.

I'm not saying that they didn't always have reason to be. But good lord, some of the stuff you're complaining about .. picking adjectives from advertisements?

Remember the.. "We're talking to Mary from Buena Park about Disneylands new 'LightMagic' night-time spectacular.." THOSE were some bad ads.. for a downright AWFUL presentation.

Remind me tho.. when they did the 25 years of WDW in Florida.. did they make it about ALL the parks.. or just Florida? What about 30 years of WDW in Florida? All the parks or just FL?

Back in 1995.. was the 40th anniversary all about DL or about all the parks? And did they celebrate 45? How was that focused?

IIRC .. the 2005 celebration for Disneyland was the first time they didn't make it ALL about Disneyland for a DL celebration.

And this YOAMD promotion is just that yes.. a promotion. But sometimes things set up for promotions become part of the long term business model (ie: Magical Express in FL) .. why? Because they make good business sense.

After all our whining and complaining about the magic - it's a business. It's gotta make a buck. So if giving away free churros and nights in the castle keeps people more loyal to the Disney brand for their vacation spending -- I'd suspect you'll see more of it in the years to come... and not just till this promotion ends.

J

 

[Another Voice]

After all our whining and complaining about the magic - it's a business.

Exactly.

The question becomes how make Disney successful? Do you create and maintain wonderful experiences for many to have - or do you set up a very elaborate "dream" that only a tiny few get to see.

There has been a deep shift in the way Disney operates. In the past - let's call it through The Lion King - there was a confidence and pride in the work. Disney create something it hoped would be well recieved, presented it to the public and watched people line up.

But doing quality work is difficult and expensive. When the Big Bosses' only interest is money, that becomes the goal. Instead of creating work that they were proud of, Disney began to chase the public. They tried to figure out what the public was willing to buy and then just made more of it.

The public bought Winnie the Pooh merchandise - so we were flooded with Pooh. Pooh series, Pooh DVD, Pooh T-shirts, Pooh nightlight, Pooh snowglobes, Pooh, Pooh, Pooh, Pooh, Pooh.

Lilo and Stitch did a hundred mil at the box office - THROW STITCH EVERYWHERE! Wait a minute, our movies tanked but Pixar's are going great - GET ME A WOODY AND A BUZZ NOW!

The company's given up creating new things for people to enjoy and now only wants to resell them stuff. It's all marketing without creativity. The 'Year of a Twenty Million Instant Losers' falls right in line. Disney can't be bothered to make a good movie, so they'll throw David Beckham in tights. Disney can't be bothered to make a ride people will pay to see, so we'll con them with a chance at a cruise.

 

[CanadianGuy]

Last I checked they were successful. Parks and resorts brought in more money than most other divisions..

J

 

[Mickmse2002]

Exactly.



The public bought Winnie the Pooh merchandise - so we were flooded with Pooh. Pooh series, Pooh DVD, Pooh T-shirts, Pooh nightlight, Pooh snowglobes, Pooh, Pooh, Pooh, Pooh, Pooh.

How has this changed though? The Disney company has always marketed stuff with character and movie tie-ins. This is not a post Lion King phenom.

 

[Another Voice]

Yet WDW draws fewer people today than it did way back in 2000. And just imagine how much more money the place would be making without all those discounts, free food and other gimmicks required to entice even the current guests to bother to show up. I mean, when you have to launch a fifty million dollar TV ad campaign to tell people "it's affordable - on sixteen hundred bucks!!!!", something's wrong.

It's the difference between honesty - providing an honest value at high quality - and today's corporate carny game. If Disney really offered a place that people wanted to see, there would be no need for free dining plans and churro giveaways.

'Year of A Million Dreams' is just evidence that today's management doesn't understand Disney. Worse, it is also a sign they don't care either.

 

[raidermatt]

If anything.. things have gotten better in the randomness department. Disney used to pick very nice-looking, all American (read white).. families to be the parade marshalls. Never pick anyone without kids except for the lovely grandparents (also white).

Yeah, that first family in the castle that got all the publicity sure was a nice cross-section of America.

Look, nobody played the "pick the white bread" card around here, so it's probably best if you just not try to counter it.

Logisitics? So this wonderfully innovative magically magical company can't figure out the logistics of a castle walk-through?

And to counter the equality argument you bring out a tour you got from a friend? How it that relevant in anyway to Disney's marketing practices? (Hint... it's not)

After all our whining and complaining about the magic - it's a business.

So if Disney talks about Magic it's a magically magical pixie dust infected Marketing promotion, and if anyone else does, it whining and complaining. Brilliant.

So if giving away free churros and nights in the castle keeps people more loyal to the Disney brand for their vacation spending -- I'd suspect you'll see more of it in the years to come... and not just till this promotion ends.

Wow, you've mastered both the obvious and the irrelevant all in the same post.

The point is this isn't the best way to build long-term brand loyalty and increase vacation spending. You're argument of "it must because Disney does it" isn't going to hold water anywhere that doesn't leave trails of pixie dust when you move your cursor.

 

[Mickmse2002]

The point is this isn't the best way to build long-term brand loyalty and increase vacation spending. You're argument of "it must because Disney does it" isn't going to hold water anywhere that doesn't leave trails of pixie dust when you move your cursor.

While I am no big fan of this current marketing scheme how do you know it won't work? I think it is too early to tell whether or not it will lead to long-term brand loyalty for some. It may not work for any of us jaded Dineyholics but how can we judge, at this point, the impact on a Disney novice?

 

[daber]

While I am no big fan of this current marketing scheme how do you know it won't work? It may not work for any of us jaded Dineyholics but how can we judge, at this point, the impact on a Disney novice?

It's working, from my perspective. My niece loves the ads on TV, can't wait to go in Sept. and really hopes to win the night in the Castle. Now she wants me to work some magic and make it happen. So, I'll have to come up with "You've won second prize......"

 

[CanadianGuy]

Logisitics? So this wonderfully innovative magically magical company can't figure out the logistics of a castle walk-through?

With a meet & greet Cinderella room? The lines would be astronomical and there is no place to put a line like that currently at the castle in Florida. That was my point. If you wanna take Cinderella meet out of that -- then I think it's relatively easy of course.

Did you read ANY of what came before in this thread?

And to counter the equality argument you bring out a tour you got from a friend? How it that relevant in anyway to Disney's marketing practices? (Hint... it's not)

It goes to the fact that who you know.. and sometimes how much money you have... has always affected how you experience the parks. Read back in the thread where someone said "Every ticket has the same opportunities in the parks" -- That's simply not true. Never has been since day one. To say that this promotion is somehow 'unequal' is b.s. It's a non-sensical argument.

Again - did you read before you posted?

So if Disney talks about Magic it's a magically magical pixie dust infected Marketing promotion, and if anyone else does, it whining and complaining. Brilliant.

Huh? When you figure out what you meant here.. get back to me.

Wow, you've mastered both the obvious and the irrelevant all in the same post.

Thanks for the insults. Try to argue the points and not be rude to the person, Mr. Magical.

The point is this isn't the best way to build long-term brand loyalty and increase vacation spending.

That's your opinion. I don't necessarily disagree with you on all points, but the fact remains.. your opinion in this matter holds about as much water as anyone else's.

You're argument of "it must because Disney does it" isn't going to hold water anywhere that doesn't leave trails of pixie dust when you move your cursor.

Ok - now I KNOW you never read what came before in this thread. My point NEVER was that it "must be because Disney does it." - where the heck did you get that?

My point was that *if* they see increases and decide it's because of this promotion -- elements of this promotion may carry on. I even used the word "IF" in the sentence you quoted.

Jeez.. I AM going to chalk this thread up to mal-contents from Anaheim. Because most of the negative posts in this thread all 'magically' live near there.

Hey.. I'm sorry you don't like how things have been run and that you think it all stinks to high heaven -- but here's a headline - millions of others don't agree with you.

Sure, theme park attendance at parks of all brands in North America are down since 2000. Maybe you missed the giant tourism DUMP that happened sometime back September of 2001? Or that Six Flags practically went bankrupt. Yah, they were doing things right....

The crowds for most theme parks have been growing steadily again since the summer of 2003 .. but yah, the numbers are still off the 2000 highs. Last I checked tho, Magic Kingdom in Florida was still # 1.

J

 

[Another Voice]

While I am no big fan of this current marketing scheme how do you know it won't work?

Which of the following quotes are you more likely to hear in ten years:

"I went to Disney World back on 2007 and I had a chance to win a nights stay in a fake castle. I didn't win, of course - they'd given it to some reporter - but I swore right there that any company willing to give away such a magically magical magic prize is going to get my vacation dollars for the rest of my life!."

or

"I just got back from WDW and, like wow!, it was amazing - there's this one new pavilion called "Frontiers" that was the most increadible thing I'd ever seen. You like go into this building and there you sit outside around a campfire. You see the stars overhead and then this guy starts to talk about how humans have always looked to heavens. And then the stars start to form constellations and he talks about the dreams and wonders people have had had about going to the stars when - WHOOSH - suddenly we're at a space port, seriously I don't know how they did it but it's like one minute your outside and the next - poof. It was like magic. And so you're at this spaceport an you borad a shuttle to a space station. Man, it felt so real it was kinda scary. But my little girl, she was scarred at first but then liked it she wanted to go on it again. And then you get to station and then like WOW all over again. It's huge - and you can see the earth and the start spinning outside. There's a giant restaurant were you can watch all the activity at the base out these huge windows and its so real too. Then we saw this giant screen movie about a trip through the solar system that was so awesom my son had to buy a book on the planets. Then over on the other side they had a real video link to the real astronauts in the real space station and you could ask them questions and really talk to them. The whole place was just like - there's no other place anywhere were you could see and do so much. My kids are already planning our trip next year!"

 

[raidermatt]

While I am no big fan of this current marketing scheme how do you know it won't work? I think it is too early to tell whether or not it will lead to long-term brand loyalty for some. It may not work for any of us jaded Dineyholics but how can we judge, at this point, the impact on a Disney novice?

It depends on what you want to do.

Do you want to just evaluate what Disney does after the fact, or do you have ideas about what would benefit it most in the future?

If its the former, then there is nothing to do but wait a couple of years until we can see what happened, and honestly, don't bother reading anything else I post.

If its the latter, then we have to make a judgement before we get to that point. It's true that nobody listens to us, but if that stopped us, there wouldn't be a board in the first place.

With that out of the way, I didn't exactly say it won't work. What I said was that it wasn't the best way to build long-term loyalty and increase vacation spending. That doesn't mean it will be a complete and utter failure and attendance will plummet. It means that I truly believe there are better ways to accomplish the goals than this "marketing celebration".

Disney has fallen in love with these things. They see them, along with other marketing initiatives, as the primary drivers for long term growth. This is not my opinion, this is what they have stated.

I see this as basically a style over substance strategy. My opinion is that they would do BETTER if they focused on the substance of what they offered, and then used marketing to highlight that substance.

There's no need to start listing new attractions/shows and saying they are focusing on substance, because I'm not saying they don't build anything new. I'm talking about where the focus is, and again, this is not up for debate as it has come from the mouths of Disney execs themselves. Yes, they talk about new attractions and offerings, but when they talk to investors, they have told them the primary driver for growth is marketing.

To makes matters even worse, they are making the celebrations generic in nature, jamming them in without gaps, and trying to rebrand WDW and DLR as "Disney Parks".

Like I said, I think there are better ways to go about this. If you have not opinion and just want to take what they do as the only option, that's fine. But otherwise, tell me why you agree or disagree.

 

[DisOrBust]

Nope it would be impossible for a castle walk-through to be developed because they wasted all their talent on creating a place for you to eat with Cindy for the price of your paycheck!

If it generated income I bet that "walk through" would be built next week!

The whole YOAMD reminds me of a Publishers clearinghouse giveaway. The nasty part is they are praying on kids dreams and expectations for that I have really been turned off.

I also was slow going into car 3/4 but when they made 9yos adults and basterzied/standardized the restaurants there wasn't much choice.

 

[raidermatt]

With a meet & greet Cinderella room? The lines would be astronomical and there is no place to put a line like that currently at the castle in Florida. That was my point. If you wanna take Cinderella meet out of that -- then I think it's relatively easy of course.

Did you read ANY of what came before in this thread?

Yes, I did, and my point is they could figure out a way to make it work if they wanted to.

It goes to the fact that who you know.. and sometimes how much money you have... has always affected how you experience the parks. Read back in the thread where someone said "Every ticket has the same opportunities in the parks" -- That's simply not true. Never has been since day one. To say that this promotion is somehow 'unequal' is b.s. It's a non-sensical argument.

Actually, unless you paid your friend, it has nothing at all to do with how much money you had. Further, you getting a tour from a friend has nothing to do with how Disney markets these "special perks", which is the point of the discussion.

Which you would know if you read, and comprehended, the earlier posts in the thread.

You getting that tour does not counter the equality argument in anyway.

Huh? When you figure out what you meant here.. get back to me.

Its English. There's only so much I can help you with in this forum.

Thanks for the insults. Try to argue the points and not be rude to the person, Mr. Magical.

You get what you give. My record of being willing to discuss the points of a discussion in a logical, rational manner is well documented on this board. But like I said, you get what you give.

That's your opinion. I don't necessarily disagree with you on all points, but the fact remains.. your opinion in this matter holds about as much water as anyone else's.

Actually, its the personal choice of the reader who determines how much water the opinion holds. So you're opinion about my opinion, is, well, your opinion. You're welcome to it.

Ok - now I KNOW you never read what came before in this thread. My point NEVER was that it "must be because Disney does it." - where the heck did you get that?

Because you continue to argue with and insult those who criticize Disney's decisions without offering any relevant arguements to support your position. You shoot suggestions down by saying they just can't do it. You counter points about Marketing strategies with a tour you buddy gave you.

You are exhibiting the traits of the classic fanboy.

Jeez.. I AM going to chalk this thread up to mal-contents from Anaheim. Because most of the negative posts in this thread all 'magically' live near there.

Yeah, that makes sense. Go with that.

Hey.. I'm sorry you don't like how things have been run and that you think it all stinks to high heaven -- but here's a headline - millions of others don't agree with you.

Never said it all stinks to high heaven, so those millions don't disagree with me.

Sure, theme park attendance at parks of all brands in North America are down since 2000. Maybe you missed the giant tourism DUMP that happened sometime back September of 2001? Or that Six Flags practically went bankrupt. Yah, they were doing things right....

I didn't say anything about the recent attendance figures, which you'd know if you read and comprehended what I posted.

I also never said anything about Six Flags. I don't use Six Flags as a bar for Disney. Disney doesn't either. They are not a tourist destination, and therefore are nothing but a minor blip on Disney's competition radar.

The crowds for most theme parks have been growing steadily again since the summer of 2003 .. but yah, the numbers are still off the 2000 highs. Last I checked tho, Magic Kingdom in Florida was still # 1.

Disney's primary competition is not other theme parks. Its vacation destinations. That point is fundamental to understanding Disney's business.

 

[exDS vet]

Jeez.. I AM going to chalk this thread up to mal-contents from Anaheim. Because most of the negative posts in this thread all 'magically' live near there.

I don't live in or near Anaheim.

I hope you have enjoyed reading your own words. It's gibberish at best, but you're in Canada, so I guess it all makes sense up there. Maybe Disney can put a park in Tagamagush or Shunamacash and you'll have something to be mad about.