Frustrated, sad, mad, and out of ideas

[Happy Snowman]

I drove a woman to a doctor's appointment a couple weeks ago. She first thought it was an appointment for her primary care doctor but it was actually to see a specialist for her osteoporosis. She was NOT happy. I was in the appointment with her because she is very hard of hearing and I write down the dr's questions for her to read. She was pretty upset about the appointment from the get-go. Finally she just told the doctor, at her age, turning 90 this week, she would expect to have issues and really did not care any more. Her family was coming for her 90th birthday and that was the only goal she had left in her life and after that, did not care what happened to her. The doctor was pretty flabbergasted but I understood. I think you get to a certain point where you just want to be done. This woman had lived a full life and had accepted that. I think it is hard for us to understand that. Maybe that is where your mothers are at now?

 

[lauradis]

"That ain't happening!"

What you mother said about moving into assistant living or retirement old people places is exactly how I feel about it. Never in a million years would I want to live like that. If one of my children ever thinks they can force me to go. hahahah.

As a daughter to an aging mother I understand your pain and worry..

But still Im in the camp of anti adult daycare places.

 

[Wishing on a star]

"I'm in a better place compared to when I posted this and was so mad and frustrated. I still am, but I now recognize that I have done everything I can do. She needs to do the right thing. She is that stubborn horse! I don't have the ability to change that and I realize I can't beat myself up over this anymore."

Yes, I think we can only send hugs!!!

 

[NewRVLady]

Lisa- love the chair thing from Frasier- LOL

 

[Happy Snowman]

"That ain't happening!"

What you mother said about moving into assistant living or retirement old people places is exactly how I feel about it. Never in a million years would I want to live like that. If one of my children ever thinks they can force me to go. hahahah.

As a daughter to an aging mother I understand your pain and worry..

But still Im in the camp of anti adult daycare places.

I'm already on the look out for potential assisted living or senior communities . Most of the places are very nice to luxurious and with the social interactions, activities, etc. it's what you make of it. I do NOT want to be in a situation where my kids have to choose between taking a vacation and staying home with me or whatever. We have Long Term Care insurance in place already if we need care and have earmarked some of our retirement portfolio to pay rent if need be.

 

[lauradis]

I'm already on the look out for potential assisted living or senior communities . Most of the places are very nice to luxurious and with the social interactions, activities, etc. it's what you make of it. I do NOT want to be in a situation where my kids have to choose between taking a vacation and staying home with me or whatever. We have Long Term Care insurance in place already if we need care and have earmarked some of our retirement portfolio to pay rent if need be.

Even the luxurious ones with same age range social interaction, activities only geared for seniors seems like jail to me, but what do I know im only in my 40s.

I personally would never make or require my children to choose a vacation or staying with me or whatever at any age.

I don't want long term care insurance, I want a DNR instead and to live my life free from supervision and length of leaving requirements.

 

[LisaR]

Even the luxurious ones with same age range social interaction, activities only geared for seniors seems like jail to me, but what do I know im only in my 40s.

I personally would never make or require my children to choose a vacation or staying with me or whatever at any age.

I don't want long term care insurance, I want a DNR instead and to live my life free from supervision and length of leaving requirements.

And in a perfect world, that's what I want, as well. Unfortunately, there is that grey area that many seniors encounter. No DNR needed, because they aren't dead. But they also aren't able to take care of themselves and their stubbornness becomes a burden to their children. It's all well and good to live free from supervision if you are truly able to do that. Betty White comes to mind. I hope I can have half her spunk at that age! My mom isn't Betty White. She had two major health issues while she was here this year. She never could have dealt with those things alone up north. I never would have been able to stop my life for six to eight weeks to fly up north and get her back to health. Thankfully, it happened while she was here. Next time, who knows? Some people need supervision/assistance. I would be the happiest person in the world if my mom was able to function alone. She isn't. She has a DNR. That's irrelevant. There's a lot of life in between there.

 

[LisaR]

I'm already on the look out for potential assisted living or senior communities . Most of the places are very nice to luxurious and with the social interactions, activities, etc. it's what you make of it. I do NOT want to be in a situation where my kids have to choose between taking a vacation and staying home with me or whatever. We have Long Term Care insurance in place already if we need care and have earmarked some of our retirement portfolio to pay rent if need be.

DH and I have checked out a bunch of places over the past few years and we always walk out joking that we are ready to move in now! These places are like living in a resort community. Yes, everyone is a "senior" but they do vary in age. My mom already lives in a condo complex that is 55 and older. Based on age, there is little difference. These places are a far cry from the nursing home environment my grandma was forced into when she fell and had to be carried out of her house!

 

[lauradis]

And in a perfect world, that's what I want, as well. Unfortunately, there is that grey area that many seniors encounter. No DNR needed, because they aren't dead. But they also aren't able to take care of themselves and their stubbornness becomes a burden to their children. It's all well and good to live free from supervision if you are truly able to do that. Betty White comes to mind. I hope I can have half her spunk at that age! My mom isn't Betty White. She had two major health issues while she was here this year. She never could have dealt with those things alone up north. I never would have been able to stop my life for six to eight weeks to fly up north and get her back to health. Thankfully, it happened while she was here. Next time, who knows? Some people need supervision/assistance. I would be the happiest person in the world if my mom was able to function alone. She isn't. She has a DNR. That's irrelevant. There's a lot of life in between there.

Honey, Im not trying to be mean. I'm sure your heart is in the right place.

I don't see it as a burden to their children. Its a choice and option. One I don't want for myself, maybe your mother sees it that same why. That the reason I posted in the first place.

I fully understand there is a lot of life in between Retirement and when your body starts to fall apart and then the mind.

My grandparents made the choice to stay and live till they died at home. Its not wrong or right. It was an option they choose. Many in the family disagreed and wanted them to live in an assisted living place.

It should be your mothers decision if she chooses to live outside "Adult jail" or not.

If and when my grown child decided to tell me its time to go to "Adult jail" lovely, I would lovely tell them, no thank you.

 

[mnrose]

It's hard at the end of life. My Dad resisted living in an assisted living facility, but once he started to fall (once where he laid for HOURS unable to get back up), we told him living alone was simply not an option. PP, is that what you want? I know people who view these places as "adult jail" and I get that, but if you don't want it, what are you going to do when (a) you CAN'T live alone for health reasons (can't care for yourself, can't cook adequate meals, can't take care of the home or apartment, etc, and (b) moving in with your adult children isn't an option (many reasons for this), exactly what are you going to do?

My MIL's plan (seriously) is to end her life rather than do a nursing home or assisted living.

Personally, I think there are many lovely assisted living facilities. My aunt lives in one, and it is fantastic. I would totally live in a place like that. People are active and vibrant. You get your own apartment. You can cook for yourself if that is what you choose. There are a host of activities that appeal to people of that age range. If you haven't seen one of these places, I would encourage you to search them out and at least see them. They are NOT cheap, but a way less expensive than a nursing home. And, probably less expensive (overall) than hiring care in your home (which is another option).

I don't want to be in a nursing home. But, when you get to the point that my Dad and FIL were both at at the end of their lives, there simply is no other rational option....unless you count suicide as a rational option. My father was completely unable to care for himself. He needed someone to feed him. He was incontinent. He could not walk. Could not shave himself, etc. No choice other than nursing home care. My FIL suffered from MS for nearly 40 years. He literally could.not.move the last 18 months of his life. Could not speak. His eyes moved. His eyes would "light up" when people he knew came to visit. His lips could "mouth" yes or no. That was it. His wife cared for him at home as long as was humanly possible....and probably about 6 months longer than she should have (risk of injuring herself lifting him, etc). But again, what other option was there?!?! No one "wants" to be in a nursing home. But, for many seniors as they age, there simply is no other choice, other than actively choosing to die. And, you can think all you want that it "won't" happen to you, but if you live long enough, it is something you will have to confront.

 

[NewRVLady]

In our research , assisted living does not change diapers , will not get you out of bed or dispense meds
Those things my late Mom needed and so was in a nursing home.

 

[Mkrop]

Those who refuse assisted living and nursing home care and insist that their children help them either directly or indirectly like OP's mom are very selfish IMHO, and I will have no problem telling my mom that when the time comes. In fact, she has said no way as well, she is still young at 69. But I told her then she better figure it out...she also had no problem putting her MIL in a nursing home when things got to hard for her and my dad to care for her, so she shouldnt be so quick to say no.

 

[Colleen27]

Even the luxurious ones with same age range social interaction, activities only geared for seniors seems like jail to me, but what do I know im only in my 40s.

I personally would never make or require my children to choose a vacation or staying with me or whatever at any age.

I don't want long term care insurance, I want a DNR instead and to live my life free from supervision and length of leaving requirements.

Your opinion on that may change as you age, especially if you find yourself in the position of caring for a senior loved one whose decline is hastened by isolation. My grandmother was adamant about staying in her own home and we moved heaven and earth to make that happen... but we know full well it wasn't what was best for her. After my grandfather passed she was very isolated because she didn't drive, and a growing body of research points to that sort of social isolation as increasing the risk of dementia and speeding it's progress. And boredom and physical inactivity complicated her other medical issues too because she'd cook/eat out of boredom and didn't get out to exercise because she didn't feel comfortable walking alone around a rapidly changing neighborhood, particularly after she began having minor mobility issues and worried about falling.

My great aunt, on the other hand, gave in to pressure from her kids to sell the house and move into a senior facility and in hindsight she feels like it was the absolute right choice for her. She has made a lot of friends, participates in a book club and bible study and a knitting group, gets out to shop via the facility's bus, and has a very active lifestyle for a 90 year old woman. Her husband passed away two years ago and while she misses him, having all those connections, friends checking in on her every day, "happy hour" in the rec room, etc. has helped her not fall into the sort of depression older people can experience after a loss like that.

My mom used to feel the same way you do, until the last 10 years or so of dealing with my grandmother's decline and then taking up teaching knitting classes at the complex my great-aunt lives in. Now she's working on sorting the accumulated clutter of 50 years in the same home with an eye towards selling and buying a condo in a senior complex near me, because she sees that type of community as a good way to stay active and remain connected to others in her later years.

 

[SmallWorld71]

It's hard at the end of life. My Dad resisted living in an assisted living facility, but once he started to fall (once where he laid for HOURS unable to get back up), we told him living alone was simply not an option. PP, is that what you want? I know people who view these places as "adult jail" and I get that, but if you don't want it, what are you going to do when (a) you CAN'T live alone for health reasons (can't care for yourself, can't cook adequate meals, can't take care of the home or apartment, etc, and (b) moving in with your adult children isn't an option (many reasons for this), exactly what are you going to do?

My MIL's plan (seriously) is to end her life rather than do a nursing home or assisted living.

Personally, I think there are many lovely assisted living facilities. My aunt lives in one, and it is fantastic. I would totally live in a place like that. People are active and vibrant. You get your own apartment. You can cook for yourself if that is what you choose. There are a host of activities that appeal to people of that age range. If you haven't seen one of these places, I would encourage you to search them out and at least see them. They are NOT cheap, but a way less expensive than a nursing home. And, probably less expensive (overall) than hiring care in your home (which is another option).

I don't want to be in a nursing home. But, when you get to the point that my Dad and FIL were both at at the end of their lives, there simply is no other rational option....unless you count suicide as a rational option. My father was completely unable to care for himself. He needed someone to feed him. He was incontinent. He could not walk. Could not shave himself, etc. No choice other than nursing home care. My FIL suffered from MS for nearly 40 years. He literally could.not.move the last 18 months of his life. Could not speak. His eyes moved. His eyes would "light up" when people he knew came to visit. His lips could "mouth" yes or no. That was it. His wife cared for him at home as long as was humanly possible....and probably about 6 months longer than she should have (risk of injuring herself lifting him, etc). But again, what other option was there?!?! No one "wants" to be in a nursing home. But, for many seniors as they age, there simply is no other choice, other than actively choosing to die. And, you can think all you want that it "won't" happen to you, but if you live long enough, it is something you will have to confront.

Well said!
Count my 85 year old grandmother as one of those who unrealistically thought she could plan out the end of her life and things would go the way she wanted to. The worst thing she ever did for herself was not be open to options as now that things haven't gone the way she planned she can't mentally handle it. She was so sure my grandfather was going to care for her in their home until she died and got to the point where he did EVERYTHING for her. Like a PP, she naively thought that a DNR was all she needed. God had other plans, however and my grandfather unexpectedly died of cancer last summer after a brief illness. My grandmother found herself no longer able to care for herself, not wanting to live with family and refusing a nursing home. Her mind could not handle it. She thinks she is dying but her health is near perfect. She is currently living with me but I know she is not happy.
If we've learned one thing from her mistakes, it's to be open to all ideas as you have no idea what life has in store for you.

OP - Best Wishes

 

[lauradis]

My MIL's plan (seriously) is to end her life rather than do a nursing home or assisted living.

Yea there is that option as well, quality of life is more important to me then length of life. Its not a popular idea, but seems like a better solution then wasting away for couple of years in a rotten body with a sound mind.

You guys are pretending like there isn't depressed people in old people homes.

 

[Colleen27]

Yea there is that option as well, quality of life is more important to me then length of life. Its not a popular idea, but seems like a better solution then wasting away for couple of years in a rotten body with a sound mind.

You guys are pretending like there isn't depressed people in old people homes.

Oh, there certainly are. And the quality of the facility is huge. A bad senior facility is probably worse than being home alone, but I think a good one can often be the best choice. Our communities just aren't what they used to be, in terms of walkability, connections with neighbors, church or community groups as social hubs, etc. Good senior facilities recreate that sort of atmosphere for residents and there are a lot of benefits associated with that.

 

[lauradis]

Oh, there certainly are. And the quality of the facility is huge. A bad senior facility is probably worse than being home alone, but I think a good one can often be the best choice. Our communities just aren't what they used to be, in terms of walkability, connections with neighbors, church or community groups as social hubs, etc. Good senior facilities recreate that sort of atmosphere for residents and there are a lot of benefits associated with that.

Your right there, but it depending on where you live.

 

[mnrose]

Yea there is that option as well, quality of life is more important to me then length of life. Its not a popular idea, but seems like a better solution then wasting away for couple of years in a rotten body with a sound mind.

You guys are pretending like there isn't depressed people in old people homes.

Of course there are! The key, I think, is to PLAN for your end of life care. People who are depressed and sad are ordinarily those without a plan who are "forced" into these situations by circumstance. If you PLAN you can choose what you want to do, and where you want to be. And by planning I mean more than "i will never do x, y or z." What WILL you do if you cannot care for yourself or your home properly? What if you get Alzheimer's? What if you are physically disabled? These are all things that happen to elderly people.

Sure, it would be nice if we all slipped away peacefully one night in our own bed, in our own home....but this simply is not realistic for many, many elderly people.

 

[lauradis]

Of course there are! The key, I think, is to PLAN for your end of life care. People who are depressed and sad are ordinarily those without a plan who are "forced" into these situations by circumstance. If you PLAN you can choose what you want to do, and where you want to be. And by planning I mean more than "i will never do x, y or z." What WILL you do if you cannot care for yourself or your home properly? What if you get Alzheimer's? What if you are physically disabled? These are all things that happen to elderly people.

Sure, it would be nice if we all slipped away peacefully one night in our own bed, in our own home....but this simply is not realistic for many, many elderly people.

My plan for end of life care, doesn't have to be yours. I think its completely reasonable to say I will never do x,y,z. Just like I think its reasonable that you choose to go to care facility.

More then likely I will commit suicide, when my body starts to fail me, when I feel as my life has been full.

I don't think my option is for everyone.

Your wrong most of the depressed senior in nursing homes are the ones that don't have family caring for them on a regular bases. They are basically prisoners of their age and the facility and abandoned by their loves ones that see them as a "burden" to care for, except on holidays.

 

[hereyago]

Lauradis: please dont take this as a snark, but when you are older and are able to go out how you what,.when you want then you can count yourself as lucky to be able to do that.

No one plans to have a stroke or fall and do damage to their body.

My mom was one of those people who had 9 lives, but the last 2 and half years, she almost died twice within a months time, had a major stroke while fighting for her life.
Vascular dementia following stroke,.so at that point she wasnt capable of wanting to off herself if she wanted.
Was bedridden. I took care of her here at home with the help of a dr who would come out to the house, home health as well.
She died in her sleep.

Caregiving isnt for everyone and it ages you.