Fastpass+ Tier System begins?

[ArwenMarie]

I haven't read through this entire thread so I apologize if the following has already been written.

I think Disney knows exactly what they are doing with this tiered system and what they are doing is smart...smart for the company's bottom line, that is.

Newbies:
Let's say family X is planning a holiday. Being newbies, they more or less wing it, go and either have a great time or are very frustrated. Either way, they have probably learned something and will be better prepared if they return. Leading us to....

Repeat customers:
Repeat customers will be familiar with rides, lines, fast pass+, etc. They will know that on site can prebook FP+ while offsite is limited to (presumably) whatever is still available day of. They will know they can only book 1 headliner per day. They will know they can only use one FP+ in one park per day. What will they do? Book a longer holiday on site. They will spend 2 days at Epcot instead of 1, 3 days at MK instead of 2. touring will be more leisurely, more time will be spent eating and shopping. those days that may have been spent at universal or seaworld will now be devoted to Disney.

Wasn't that the whole point of this nextgen initiative anyway? Keep people at Disney? What better way to do that than to limit the number of popular attractions that can be accessed in one day and make it easier for on site guests to access them?

Re repeat customers, I could see that. To be fair, there is enough to do at Epcot to fill 2 days, same for 3 at MK.

 

[bojangleshatdance]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemk76 View Post
ITA All the ones who are complaining that I get to ride X 10 times in a day with FP- are going to be unhappy. They will have to explore other parts of the park. They might even discover other things they like. Some will stop coming. Others will replace them and have a better experience with them gone.

Agreed-- they will be unhappy. I just think that they are really in the small minority. The number of available FP has to dictate that. The change will please more people than it displeases.

Agreedx2. We were part of FP+ testing last December and finally after all these years were able to ride TSM. Will use MB and FP+ to ride it again this year. It was also helpful to allow us special viewing to watch a parade without people pushing to get in front of us. We count on being part of those people who it will please as we typically do not run through the part pulling numerous fast passes.

 

[boogienights]

Re repeat customers, I could see that. To be fair, there is enough to do at Epcot to fill 2 days, same for 3 at MK.

For some, sure. My family typically spends one day in each park and leaves well before closing. I can't imagine going to MK 3 times during the course of a holiday. We stay offsite and hit universal, waterparks, and Busch gardens as well.

 

[robpa]

I haven't read through this entire thread so I apologize if the following has already been written.

I think Disney knows exactly what they are doing with this tiered system and what they are doing is smart...smart for the company's bottom line, that is.

Newbies:
Let's say family X is planning a holiday. Being newbies, they more or less wing it, go and either have a great time or are very frustrated. Either way, they have probably learned something and will be better prepared if they return. Leading us to....

Repeat customers:
Repeat customers will be familiar with rides, lines, fast pass+, etc. They will know that on site can prebook FP+ while offsite is limited to (presumably) whatever is still available day of. They will know they can only book 1 headliner per day. They will know they can only use one FP+ in one park per day. What will they do? Book a longer holiday on site. They will spend 2 days at Epcot instead of 1, 3 days at MK instead of 2. touring will be more leisurely, more time will be spent eating and shopping. those days that may have been spent at universal or seaworld will now be devoted to Disney.

Wasn't that the whole point of this nextgen initiative anyway? Keep people at Disney? What better way to do that than to limit the number of popular attractions that can be accessed in one day and make it easier for on site guests to access them?

Or you can keep them at Disney by putting in more stuff that people want to do.(new attractions) What is the driving force @ Universal that has caused their attendance and revenue to increase? They are putting in new attractions. Its like the sports franchise that hasn't been very good for a couple of years, they build a new stadium and games are sold out because everyone wants to see the new stadium.

 

[tjkraz]

Or you can keep them at Disney by putting in more stuff that people want to do.(new attractions) What is the driving force @ Universal that has caused their attendance and revenue to increase? They are putting in new attractions. Its like the sports franchise that hasn't been very good for a couple of years, they build a new stadium and games are sold out because everyone wants to see the new stadium.

It's not that simple. Really depends upon a number of specifics.

Four years ago Islands of Adventure was only drawing 4.5 million guests per year. That's less than half of what Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom were drawing at the time...1/3 of Epcot and about 1/4 of Magic Kingdom.

There was tremendous room for growth at IOA. And sure enough, four years after Harry Potter IOA is up around 8 million guests.

It is very unlikely that Disney would have seen that sort of growth even if they had been the ones to add HP. IOA's numbers were so low that growth was inevitable. They just needed the right investment...and they did quite well when making that decision.

Similar thing happened at Disney California Adventure. Five years ago, DCA attendance was 1/3 of Disneyland...two parks which are literally 200' apart. Disney invested a billion dollars and suddenly attendance is up 2 million. It helps that the new attractions were well received, but the growth says more for DCA's low starting point than its eventual end point. Spend the same money in Disneyland and there is no way its attendance would have grown by the same 2 million bodies.

 

[robpa]

It's not that simple. Really depends upon a number of specifics.

Four years ago Islands of Adventure was only drawing 4.5 million guests per year. That's less than half of what Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom were drawing at the time...1/3 of Epcot and about 1/4 of Magic Kingdom.

There was tremendous room for growth at IOA. And sure enough, four years after Harry Potter IOA is up around 8 million guests.

It is very unlikely that Disney would have seen that sort of growth even if they had been the ones to add HP. IOA's numbers were so low that growth was inevitable. They just needed the right investment...and they did quite well when making that decision.

Similar thing happened at Disney California Adventure. Five years ago, DCA attendance was 1/3 of Disneyland...two parks which are literally 200' apart. Disney invested a billion dollars and suddenly attendance is up 2 million. It helps that the new attractions were well received, but the growth says more for DCA's low starting point than its eventual end point. Spend the same money in Disneyland and there is no way its attendance would have grown by the same 2 million bodies.

I see what you are saying, IOA had no where to go but up, however don't you think there whole tracking program would have been easier to sell if there were more attractions to spread out what guests are already in the park?

I know Disney isn't interested per se in increasing attendance(they already have top market share in that) but to increase on site guests(IE resort guests).

Tie in new attractions with the lastest greatest technology and a new stay onsite pkg deal and you are filling rooms. It just seems like a tough sell to some longtime Disneyphiles.

 

[robpa]

For some, sure. My family typically spends one day in each park and leaves well before closing. I can't imagine going to MK 3 times during the course of a holiday. We stay offsite and hit universal, waterparks, and Busch gardens as well.

We vacationed the same way, 1 MK, 2 epcot(my older son liked epcot), 1 in each of the others, 2 at Universal, 1 seaworld, 1 day at Kennedy Space Ctr., 1 do nothing day.

Did Busch Gardens one summer when we went to the Gulf for 10 days.

 

[tjkraz]

I see what you are saying, IOA had no where to go but up, however don't you think there whole tracking program would have been easier to sell if there were more attractions to spread out what guests are already in the park?

I know Disney isn't interested per se in increasing attendance(they already have top market share in that) but to increase on site guests(IE resort guests).

Tie in new attractions with the lastest greatest technology and a new stay onsite pkg deal and you are filling rooms. It just seems like a tough sell to some longtime Disneyphiles.

Easy for us to say since we aren't writing the checks.

Avatar is on its way and Star Wars is waiting in the wings. Disney isn't breaking any records moving those projects forward, but they are coming.

The biggest problem with these discussions is that we really don't know exactly what we're debating / critiquing. When it comes to FP+, the knee-jerk reaction among most people seems to be the assumption that they will come out on the losing end. Some how they will end up spending more time in line, riding fewer attractions and paying more for the experience.

But Disney isn't going to introduce a program where most guests end up 'losing'. Their primary goal with MDE is probably not 'to improve the guest experience.' I'm quite sure financial motivation ranks higher. But they aren't going to meet financial goals if they alienate guests. Even a 5-7% drop in attendance linked to FP+ could be devastating.

Attraction capacity isn't changing. If I can ride Star Tours 5 times per day now in a typical visit to Hollywood Studios, I have every expectation that I'll be able to arrange a similar number of visits after FP+ is running. I just won't know exactly how I'll plan those rides until I see how the entire FP+ system is implemented.

 

[robpa]

Easy for us to say since we aren't writing the checks.

Avatar is on its way and Star Wars is waiting in the wings. Disney isn't breaking any records moving those projects forward, but they are coming.

The biggest problem with these discussions is that we really don't know exactly what we're debating / critiquing. When it comes to FP+, the knee-jerk reaction among most people seems to be the assumption that they will come out on the losing end. Some how they will end up spending more time in line, riding fewer attractions and paying more for the experience.

But Disney isn't going to introduce a program where most guests end up 'losing'. Their primary goal with MDE is probably not 'to improve the guest experience.' I'm quite sure financial motivation ranks higher. But they aren't going to meet financial goals if they alienate guests. Even a 5-7% drop in attendance linked to FP+ could be devastating.

Attraction capacity isn't changing. If I can ride Star Tours 5 times per day now in a typical visit to Hollywood Studios, I have every expectation that I'll be able to arrange a similar number of visits after FP+ is running. I just won't know exactly how I'll plan those rides until I see how the entire FP+ system is implemented.

I think the only definite is that they will be paying more for the experience, but I agree no one has a clue as to what the final product will look like.(I think not even Disney)

As far as riding Star Tours I think it depends on your perception of how you were able to ride it 5x. If you used more than one fastpass then you are going to believe that riding it that many times isn't possible anymore. If you did it by getting to RD and riding it 5x from the standby line, then you will think why is everyone getting so worked up over this, this doesn't affect me.

 

[tjkraz]

I think the only definite is that they will be paying more for the experience ...

That's Disney's goal, but it doesn't mean I have to play along. They may envision this as a system where I spend less time waiting in line and more time in shops, thereby spending more money in those shops.

But there's nothing compelling me to actually walk away with another t-shirt.

As far as riding Star Tours I think it depends on your perception of how you were able to ride it 5x. If you used more than one fastpass then you are going to believe that riding it that many times isn't possible anymore.

The question is whether that "belief" becomes reality.

If Disney goes forward with the tiers and other apparent FP+ restrictions, it's entirely possible that they will end up issuing fewer FastPasses for Star Tours. As such, more riders will be pulled from the Standby line all day long, making that line move faster than it does today.

Again, I keep circling back to the idea that attraction capacities aren't changing. If I cannot ride as many times as I did in the past under FP+...or have to wait longer for each ride...then it stands to reason that other people are benefitting at my expense.

Given the FREE and OPEN ACCESS of the legacy FP system to ALL GUESTS, I'm not exactly clear on how the new system will lessen my experience while benefitting others.

 

[robpa]

2bl post sorry

 

[robpa]

computer not cooperating will add thougts later

 

[robpa]

That's Disney's goal, but it doesn't mean I have to play along. They may envision this as a system where I spend less time waiting in line and more time in shops, thereby spending more money in those shops.

But there's nothing compelling me to actually walk away with another t-shirt.



The question is whether that "belief" becomes reality.

If Disney goes forward with the tiers and other apparent FP+ restrictions, it's entirely possible that they will end up issuing fewer FastPasses for Star Tours. As such, more riders will be pulled from the Standby line all day long, making that line move faster than it does today.

Again, I keep circling back to the idea that attraction capacities aren't changing. If I cannot ride as many times as I did in the past under FP+...or have to wait longer for each ride...then it stands to reason that other people are benefitting at my expense.

Given the FREE and OPEN ACCESS of the legacy FP system to ALL GUESTS, I'm not exactly clear on how the new system will lessen my experience while benefitting others.

True, the capacities aren't changing but traffic to some may be changing depending on usage of fp+ and of course what the final product looks like.