Fastpass+ Tier System begins?

[robpa]

Forgot to add Go Blue even though it looks like another rough yr.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Why is everyone so shocked and outraged by this. When FP+ was originally announced and tested, this was how it was presented, that there would be two tiers of pre-booked FP.

For me...it's because Disney has NOT tried to market this... Really...at all.

And that is what is a scary thing.
No angle... No sales pitch.

Based on what you know...what does that mean?

I think this leads to even worse treatment of the employees (mainly reduction) and price increases that will drive the whole place out of many of "our" price range.

And remember...nobody ever said they wanted this. Iger's regime seems even more hellbent on unfettered profit than eisners was... And that's saying alot...
This is full steam ahead on " something"... And it's understandable that we, the loyal customers, are somewhat apprehensive...

We don't want "our" disneyworld to go away. And we used to not second guess it because we had an informal partnership with Disney management.

Me...myself...is worried that their new business model has voided that partnership.

Did you see any of the reports about Brazilian tourism to the US rising? 30 million visitors to the US last year...
18 million to Orlando.

The times... They are a changin...and none of us want to be rendered obselete.

It's natural.

 

[buk110]

this is the beginning of class warfare. Next they give more fast pass selections for headliner attractions fr deluxe resort guest. Penalizing people who are not millionaires but still love their kids just as much or more & want to give them a magical experience

Good if I'm staying at grand Floridian I'd like a better experience than the unwashed masses staying at all-star

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Good if I'm staying at grand Floridian I'd like a better experience than the unwashed masses staying at all-star

Back under the bridge, troll

 

[robpa]

For me...it's because Disney has NOT tried to market this... Really...at all.

And that is what is a scary thing.
No angle... No sales pitch.

Based on what you know...what does that mean?

I think this leads to even worse treatment of the employees (mainly reduction) and price increases that will drive the whole place out of many of "our" price range.

And remember...nobody ever said they wanted this. Iger's regime seems even more hellbent on unfettered profit than eisners was... And that's saying alot...
This is full steam ahead on " something"... And it's understandable that we, the loyal customers, are somewhat apprehensive...

We don't want "our" disneyworld to go away. And we used to not second guess it because we had an informal partnership with Disney management.

Me...myself...is worried that their new business model has voided that partnership.

Did you see any of the reports about Brazilian tourism to the US rising? 30 million visitors to the US last year...
18 million to Orlando.

The times... They are a changin...and none of us want to be rendered obselete.

It's natural.

Whoever could sell this in its current state would be one hell of a salesman.
Probably could sell ice to the Eskimos.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Whoever could sell this in its current state would be one hell of a salesman.
Probably could sell ice to the Eskimos.

It's not that I think it can be sold... It's that they didnt even TRY.


They have...almost literally...sold swampland to alligators in the past. And everything has been done with too much fanfare.

The fantasyland redo a recent, brutal example.

My favorite of course was "magical gatherings"...the whole "bring your whole family...what a great, new idea!" Concept...which differed from before...how?

But they sold it like sand to saudis

 

[ilovemk76]

I have Maelstrom, TT and Soarin' as my 3 FP+ on one day and TT, Soarin' and SSE as my 3 FP+ on another day. I just check and they are still there.

 

[mickeyfan0805]

I have Maelstrom, TT and Soarin' as my 3 FP+ on one day and TT, Soarin' and SSE as my 3 FP+ on another day. I just check and they are still there.

I don't think they are changing arrangements in place before the change. This appears to only apply t those who haven't made the FP+ arrangements yet.

 

[karly05]

I've stayed out of all the FP+ threads so far, but wanted to chime in here:

Well, considering there have been so many reports/complaints about FPs running out by 9.30-10am for popular rides, maybe this is an attempt to stop people with FP+ booking all the most popular rides and make more fastpasses available for those not able to access FP+?

This was exactly my immediate reaction to the Epcot Tiers announcement. Given the recent distress over same-day FPs running out so early, I would seriously bet that was a major factor in the newest tiered test.

Disney doesn't want FP+ pre-booked weeks in advance. They need to be able to market a system where people entering the park day-of will still find ride times available. The only realistic way to do that is to make each guest choose between a reservation for Soarin OR Test Track OR fireworks viewing OR some similar experience.

Same is true at Hollywood Studios. Toy Story Mania and Rock n Rollercoaster cannot accommodate every guest. They'll have to force people to choose.

I always though the most equitable way of implementing FP+ would be to allow a certain number of pre-booked ride reservations and then allow for additional selections upon park entry.

Agree completely. And call me naive ('cause I am), but that last paragraph is exactly how I'm thinking FP+ is finally going to shake out. Pre-book one headliner and a couple of 2nd tier attractions, then once you're actually in the park, FP+ will work like the old system for same-day FP, just with mobile apps and magic bands instead of paper FPs.

1 more comment about Maelstrom being a "top tier" choice: FWIW, the longest standby waits I've done the past two years have been at Maelstrom (albeit in the afternoon), and I'm guessing that "Frozen" is going to give it a whole new popularity (esp. with Anna and Elsa meeting in the pavilion).

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Disney doesn't want FP+ pre-booked weeks in advance. They need to be able to market a system where people entering the park day-of will still find ride times available. The only realistic way to do that is to make each guest choose between a reservation for Soarin OR Test Track OR fireworks viewing OR some similar experience.

So in reading this...I'm gonna have to assume that you feel that labor control is NOT part of the program here...to predict is to limit.

Fundamentally disagree...they aren't going to all this trouble to provide all the children with "better flow" on fastpasses...or because they desperately need a reprogramable avatar ride.

There is an economic upside to the cheese here...or not one dime gets spent.
Period.

And "increased value" isn't what they bank on...it's all short term changes that lead to large profits across a 50 million visit spectrum.

We shall see.

 

[beer dave]

This whole thread is so highly based on personal touring styles that the real point is being missed. If there are x FP for soarin, and there are 10X people in the park, 90% of the visitors will not get a FP. It doesn't matter when they give them out-- most people won't have one. ( my numbers are not researched, and I would assume 90 % is low.)

What is the benefit for Disney to reserve a group of passes for day of reservation? I don't think there is one. If 90 % of the guests will be disappointed by not getting a FP for soarin, what does it matter which 90 % that is? As the roll out finishes, I am fairly sure that all will get the same or similar access to pre booking, and then everyone will have the same or similar chance to get the coveted passes.

What has changed? Mostly the ability of a few to over use the FP system, making any given pass more available to a higher number of guests, making them happier. So if one person who pulls multi passes for soarin is limited to one, that is several others who will feel their experience has been improved.

This system will make a higher percentage of visitors have a better experience than the percentage that it disappoints. Overall that makes it a better system. If Disneys plan is to please the largest group of visitors, I think this will work.

Not to mention all of Lockedouts reasons pertaining to staffing and overall control.

 

[Tekneek]

This is most absurd at a park like Epcot where TT and Soarin' get the most visitors and the rest are walk on attractions the vast majority of the time. It does nothing to help people differentiate or determine which one they should use an FP+ slot on. At least once you are at the parks, you can see which one you should FP and which does not need it. Pushing the decision out 60 days makes it impossible to make a decision based on crowd conditions.

 

[beer dave]

This is most absurd at a park like Epcot where TT and Soarin' get the most visitors and the rest are walk on attractions the vast majority of the time. It does nothing to help people differentiate or determine which one they should use an FP+ slot on. At least once you are at the parks, you can see which one you should FP and which does not need it. Pushing the decision out 60 days makes it impossible to make a decision based on crowd conditions.

I agree that most epcot attractions are walk on-- but as far as soarin and TT-- they both need a FP at any given point. People have to pick which one they want I guess. I'm not happy about it, but it levels the playing field. I'm not a FP comando, but have been and I understand the complaints of many who still are. I'm just saying that we don't matter so much since there are so many who will benefit in the long run.

 

[ilovemk76]

This whole thread is so highly based on personal touring styles that the real point is being missed. If there are x FP for soarin, and there are 10X people in the park, 90% of the visitors will not get a FP. It doesn't matter when they give them out-- most people won't have one. ( my numbers are not researched, and I would assume 90 % is low.)

What is the benefit for Disney to reserve a group of passes for day of reservation? I don't think there is one. If 90 % of the guests will be disappointed by not getting a FP for soarin, what does it matter which 90 % that is? As the roll out finishes, I am fairly sure that all will get the same or similar access to pre booking, and then everyone will have the same or similar chance to get the coveted passes.

What has changed? Mostly the ability of a few to over use the FP system, making any given pass more available to a higher number of guests, making them happier. So if one person who pulls multi passes for soarin is limited to one, that is several others who will feel their experience has been improved.

This system will make a higher percentage of visitors have a better experience than the percentage that it disappoints. Overall that makes it a better system. If Disneys plan is to please the largest group of visitors, I think this will work.

Not to mention all of Lockedouts reasons pertaining to staffing and overall control.

ITA All the ones who are complaining that I get to ride X 10 times in a day with FP- are going to be unhappy. They will have to explore other parts of the park. They might even discover other things they like. Some will stop coming. Others will replace them and have a better experience with them gone.

They are like the guy I had the "pleasure" of being in our work cafeteria with. They changed how they did something. He *****ed and *****ed at the cashier and told her he was never coming again. This change has been in effect for a few weeks. Guess what, the cafeteria is as busy as ever.

 

[Tekneek]

Guess what, the cafeteria is as busy as ever.

That says more about the psychology of human beings than it reveals about whether the change was good or bad. They tend to keep doing whatever they were doing before, even if it means putting up with more inconvenience or paying more for less, than drastically changing their habits in response.

 

[beer dave]

ITA All the ones who are complaining that I get to ride X 10 times in a day with FP- are going to be unhappy. They will have to explore other parts of the park. They might even discover other things they like. Some will stop coming. Others will replace them and have a better experience with them gone.

Agreed-- they will be unhappy. I just think that they are really in the small minority. The number of available FP has to dictate that. The change will please more people than it displeases.

 

[tjkraz]

So in reading this...I'm gonna have to assume that you feel that labor control is NOT part of the program here...to predict is to limit.

Fundamentally disagree...they aren't going to all this trouble to provide all the children with "better flow" on fastpasses...or because they desperately need a reprogramable avatar ride.

There is an economic upside to the cheese here...or not one dime gets spent.
Period.

And "increased value" isn't what they bank on...it's all short term changes that lead to large profits across a 50 million visit spectrum.

We shall see.

For the most part, no I do not believe that labor adjustments are a big driver behind FP+. Disney hotel occupancy levels, DME rider data, restaurant dining reservations and other metrics can already be used to project crowd levels. Not to mention 40+ years of historical park attendance data.

Disney will probably be able to reduce labor if MDE / FP+ eventually requires less staffing across the board. Park entrance gates reportedly now require fewer staff members. Without paper FastPass ticket machines, the CMs who normally staff those locations are eliminated, along with any maintenance personnel required to keep the machines running, stock tickets, etc.

The most significant opportunities MDE presents for Disney (IMO) are:

- Increased merchandise sales. Whether it's because the touch-to-pay system is so easy to use, FP+ gives users more time to shop or some other reason, Iger has already told investors that people testing MDE are spending more in the parks than non-participants.

- Depending upon how FP+ is monetized, Disney will make more money off that specific product. If FP+ is eventually exclusive to Disney resort guests, higher demand will allow for higher room rates (and/or reduced discounting.) If Disney resort guests simply get a better FP+ benefit than those staying off-site, similar impact. If they charge day guests to use FP+, again, new revenue stream.

If FP+ ride reservations prove to be consistently booked days or weeks in advance, Disney will LOSE business. There are people who absolutely will not pay $100 for admission to DHS if they know the only way to ride Toy Story Mania or Rock N Rollercoaster is via a 60-120 minute standby wait.

Disney shouldn't have to spend more than a billion dollars on MDE to tell them whether they need 19 or 20 people to operate Haunted Mansion on a Saturday in October. As a vehicle for cutting a person here and a person there--CMs making $12 per hour--it would take decades to recoup the cost of MDE.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm sure they tracked the heck out of this in advance... They always do.

But there's no way that the angle is not for
Profit for a New York financial district minute.

Profit is at least 90% of the motivation - rest assured.

I see the motives as this:

1. Merchandise - either through ease of sales, reduction in attraction/dining times leading to more shop time...or likely both (the winner and still undefeated champion)

2-4 (any order you like)

Operation cost reductions (through staff and maybe operating hours)
The ability to identify and sell additional fee...whatever's
Pack more people in with the same inventory of things to do (which is beyond stale... Lets be honest)


That's where I'm at...not alot of upside... And the lack of sales pitch on this has me thinking I'm right.

If they honestly think the thing that's holding them back from packing 75 mil a year into that place...for a week at port Orleans in exchange for most people's life savings...is that the lines are too long and keeping them away?...then that's worst take I've ever seen from kindergarten - let alone a billion dollar company.

Time will tell...the only upside right now for me may be a tad of convenience ( and it ain't that big) and the elimination of the fastpass runners/junkies.

Cause let's face it... What the heck is everyone running at rope drop to get?
Soarin? Toy story? Expedition mechanical failure? Princess time with belle?

That doesn't make sense and bye bye.

 

[OKW Lover]

The more I think about this (and I'll admit I try not to think about it) I see the benefit to Disney and to the Guest in reducing time spent waiting in lines.

Disney gets the benefit of a guest who is doing more with their time so they come away with an overall positive experience. Disney also benefits because the less time a guest spends in line is more time for them to dine or shop.

The guests benefits by not having to spend a lot of time in lines. They can do more (if they want to) without long waits.

 

[boogienights]

I haven't read through this entire thread so I apologize if the following has already been written.

I think Disney knows exactly what they are doing with this tiered system and what they are doing is smart...smart for the company's bottom line, that is.

Newbies:
Let's say family X is planning a holiday. Being newbies, they more or less wing it, go and either have a great time or are very frustrated. Either way, they have probably learned something and will be better prepared if they return. Leading us to....

Repeat customers:
Repeat customers will be familiar with rides, lines, fast pass+, etc. They will know that on site can prebook FP+ while offsite is limited to (presumably) whatever is still available day of. They will know they can only book 1 headliner per day. They will know they can only use one FP+ in one park per day. What will they do? Book a longer holiday on site. They will spend 2 days at Epcot instead of 1, 3 days at MK instead of 2. touring will be more leisurely, more time will be spent eating and shopping. those days that may have been spent at universal or seaworld will now be devoted to Disney.

Wasn't that the whole point of this nextgen initiative anyway? Keep people at Disney? What better way to do that than to limit the number of popular attractions that can be accessed in one day and make it easier for on site guests to access them?