Fast Pass+ is not bad for everyone...

[Yellowstonetim]

I'm not paying thousands of dollars for a trip to WDW to be told I can only ride a certain ride once. Forget about it.

If I want to get as many fast passes as allowed by Disney for a ride like space mountain, then I have every right to do so.

I've not done anything that's against the rules by Disney, if their rides or attractions were meant to be one time only attractions, they they would have never left the "ticket book" pricing model.

That's absurd.

In these discussions the three different things are being confused:

• What is according to the rules,
• What was the original intent,
• What is fair to everyone,

You and all of us that got as many FP's as possible were playing by the rules. You had the right However, what you and I did was not what Disney originally foresaw nor intended. And our playing the system and getting all the FP so they run out for the day - while playing by the rules - was not inherently fair to the "slower" folks in the grand scheme of what Disney intended.

No problem. You and I aren't bad. But Disney isn't bad, either, for adjusting those very rules you weren't breaking in order to spread the FP's around and try to achieve their original intent when they created the FP system: Making the largest number of visitors possible happy with their visit. Looks like FP+ will achieve this even if it makes a minority unhappy enough to stop coming. All is fair in love, war, and Fast Pass.

I, for one, am glad the "running man" game is over! I am hopeful we will get more FP's eventually and more flexibility since so many old FP's that were lost and unused will now be recaptured and redistributed.

 

[Alice Royal]

In these discussions the three different things are being confused:

• What is according to the rules,
• What was the original intent,
• What is fair to everyone,

You and all of us that got as many FP's as possible were playing by the rules. You had the right However, what you and I did was not what Disney originally foresaw nor intended. And our playing the system and getting all the FP so they run out for the day - while playing by the rules - was not inherently fair to the "slower" folks in the grand scheme of what Disney intended.

No problem. You and I aren't bad. But Disney isn't bad, either, for adjusting those very rules you weren't breaking in order to spread the FP's around and try to achieve their original intent when they created the FP system: Making the largest number of visitors possible happy with their visit. Looks like FP+ will achieve this even if it makes a minority unhappy enough to stop coming. All is fair in love, war, and Fast Pass.

I, for one, am glad the "running man" game is over! I am hopeful we will get more FP's eventually and more flexibility since so many old FP's that were lost and unused will now be recaptured and redistributed.

Where's the 'like' button?

 

[Mad-Jasper]

I think that the concept of FP+ is a good idea. I did enjoy being able to make changes to my ride times. I liked being able to schedule rides ahead of time. I absolutely despised having to select FPs for rides that never need FPs. In effect, Epcot might as well hand out one FP per day.

That said, FP+ is not the problem. Disney's lack of ride capacity is. If riding rides is what you want (and there is nothing wrong with that) Disney may not be the theme park for you.

 

[Silock]

it's not fair to them if they can't ride their favorite ride ONCE if you took 7 fast passes for that one ride all day.

All they had to do was get a Fastpass themselves. There's a lockout period after someone grabs one. The only thing preventing you from getting one is your own desire not to walk over there and get one. If someone can get multiple fastpasses for a ride in one day, that just means there weren't enough other people even TRYING to get Fastpasses.

I can see it now...

If all the FP+ are gone for the day a month in advance, people who are complaining about fairness will long for the old system where everyone had a chance.

 

[rebbyparker]

All they had to do was get a Fastpass themselves. There's a lockout period after someone grabs one. The only thing preventing you from getting one is your own desire not to walk over there and get one. If someone can get multiple fastpasses for a ride in one day, that just means there weren't enough other people even TRYING to get Fastpasses.

I can see it now...

If all the FP+ are gone for the day a month in advance, people who are complaining about fairness will long for the old system where everyone had a chance.

This. The system was equally fair to everyone before. It didn't stop anyone from getting any more than anyone else as long as they put in a little effort.

 

[beer dave]

In these discussions the three different things are being confused:

• What is according to the rules,
• What was the original intent,
• What is fair to everyone,

You and all of us that got as many FP's as possible were playing by the rules. You had the right However, what you and I did was not what Disney originally foresaw nor intended. And our playing the system and getting all the FP so they run out for the day - while playing by the rules - was not inherently fair to the "slower" folks in the grand scheme of what Disney intended.

No problem. You and I aren't bad. But Disney isn't bad, either, for adjusting those very rules you weren't breaking in order to spread the FP's around and try to achieve their original intent when they created the FP system: Making the largest number of visitors possible happy with their visit. Looks like FP+ will achieve this even if it makes a minority unhappy enough to stop coming. All is fair in love, war, and Fast Pass.

I, for one, am glad the "running man" game is over! I am hopeful we will get more FP's eventually and more flexibility since so many old FP's that were lost and unused will now be recaptured and redistributed.

This is what I have said many times before.

No one was breaking the rules, but the system was being used in a way it was not intended to be used. Be happy you got to do it in the past. The parks used to be much less crowded also. I am happy I was able to be there at that time. Those days are over also.

The people who run and use FP all day long are unhappy because think they will lose the ability to collect more FP's by putting in the legwork during their park visits. While now during testing, this might seem to be true, it may not be true in the future. (except for the fact that they will no longer be running, but using their phone)

In any business model, when demand surpasses supply, one of the responses is to raise the price. This is next, and I think it is going to be a big one. Get ready.

I also still believe their will be tiering of number of FPP available based on resort level. Magic hours are already dwindling, and they will probably disappear in the next year. ( all my opinion) Any idea of "paying" for extra FPP will probably be wrapped up in cost for your room. Maybe in room packages-- "Your standard package for ASM comes with 3 FPP-- one tier one, and 2 tier 2-- but for an additional xx, you can get a silver mickey package, which will allow you 2 tier one and 2 tier 2 per day. This also comes with 2 complimentary snacks from any cart throughout the parks per day. And if you are really looking to have a happy family, a select few will be offered the double golden mickey package........ See a dealer near you for details"

 

[Pooh2]

We do not have smartphones and were not able to book fastpass plus online because our tickets were not linked before our arrival. We still managed to get decent fastpasses and got to do 3 of our favorite rides at Epcot on the day after Thanksgiving, arriving at the park mid afternoon.

We do not get to go often and got a little stressed over fastpass but it actually worked in our favor this past trip. I will reserve judgement after all the kinks have been worked out.

 

[mcd2745]

In these discussions the three different things are being confused:

• What is according to the rules,
• What was the original intent,
• What is fair to everyone,

You and all of us that got as many FP's as possible were playing by the rules. You had the right However, what you and I did was not what Disney originally foresaw nor intended. And our playing the system and getting all the FP so they run out for the day - while playing by the rules - was not inherently fair to the "slower" folks in the grand scheme of what Disney intended.

No problem. You and I aren't bad. But Disney isn't bad, either, for adjusting those very rules you weren't breaking in order to spread the FP's around and try to achieve their original intent when they created the FP system: Making the largest number of visitors possible happy with their visit. Looks like FP+ will achieve this even if it makes a minority unhappy enough to stop coming. All is fair in love, war, and Fast Pass.

I, for one, am glad the "running man" game is over! I am hopeful we will get more FP's eventually and more flexibility since so many old FP's that were lost and unused will now be recaptured and redistributed.

Excellent post. I totally agree with everything. Some people's reactions to this "leveling of the playing field" (for lack of a better term), has been ridiculous.

 

[skier_pete]

I also like the new FP system. My one caveat to it is to me they should make sort of a hybrid of the new and old. Perhaps you can pre-book the three FP+ ahead of time, even leaving the two-tier system.

But, then to me as of the opening of the park, they should allow anyone to get additional FPs as available using the old rules (once you enter the park, you can book additional FPs once every two hours as they are available). The reason is that if they convert everyone to FP+, there could be a LOT of unused FPs that are simply not available.

This way, everyone gets a chance to pre-book Soarin', but if I really want to ride it twice, I could book a second one the day of...

Just my two cents...I also feel pretty strongly that they will tweak the system as its going.

 

[Mad-Jasper]

The playing field has always been level. It was one's choice whether they wanted to participate in the legacy system as it will be ones choice to participate in the new system.

But make no mistake, Fastpass+ is a penalty if you choose to stay off property. So in a sense, the playing field is being unleveled. Guest relations at Epcot told me that there will be most likely addition FPs for pass holders 1st quarter 2014. That will benefit me, but again, the playing field is being unleveled. And when the implement a system that rewards you with FPs base on the resort you stay at (and this will happen), it will further unlevel the playing field.

MB and FP+ has never been about the consumer... It's about maximizing profits.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I also still believe their will be tiering of number of FPP available based on resort level. Magic hours are already dwindling, and they will probably disappear in the next year. ( all my opinion) Any idea of "paying" for extra FPP will probably be wrapped up in cost for your room. Maybe in room packages-- "Your standard package for ASM comes with 3 FPP-- one tier one, and 2 tier 2-- but for an additional xx, you can get a silver mickey package, which will allow you 2 tier one and 2 tier 2 per day. This also comes with 2 complimentary snacks from any cart throughout the parks per day. And if you are really looking to have a happy family, a select few will be offered the double golden mickey package........ See a dealer near you for details"

I think this is coming too. It might take a while though at the rate they are going. The goal here is going to be max occupancy at the highest level of resort possible all the days of the year. That's how they make the money back on this and more. I actually don't think they will ever be able to sell them ala carte though, just not enough capacity, but I think they would like to.

 

[rebbyparker]

The playing field has always been level. It was one's choice whether they wanted to participate in the legacy system as it will be ones choice to participate in the new system.

But make no mistake, Fastpass+ is a penalty if you choose to stay off property. So in a sense, the playing field is being unleveled. Guest relations at Epcot told me that there will be most likely addition FPs for pass holders 1st quarter 2014. That will benefit me, but again, the playing field is being unleveled. And when the implement a system that rewards you with FPs base on the resort you stay at (and this will happen), it will further unlevel the playing field.

MB and FP+ has never been about the consumer... It's about maximizing profits.

Agreed. Great post.

 

[skier_pete]

And when the implement a system that rewards you with FPs base on the resort you stay at (and this will happen), it will further unlevel the playing field.

I am not saying that they WON'T do this...but people have been talking about there being some sort of park benefit for staying at Deluxe resorts for as long as I've been on the DIS (7 years) and have claimed that they will do that with Next-Gen/FP+.

However, Disney has never once given ANY indication that they are going to do this. So far, there has never been any PARK benefit (other than location to the parks) of staying at a Deluxe.

They have not even indicated that there will be a difference between off-site and on-site guests regarding FP+. In fact, the only thing they have stated is that the new system will eventually be rolled out to everyone - including day guests.

All I can tell you is that some people hated FP when it came out, and wer (and still are) convinced that it made lines longer and ruined the park experience. Those people were wrong, though it definitely changed the park experience. This (FP+) will again change the park experience, and if its for the better or worse, that is in the eye of the user.

If enough people dislike it enough to stop going, then I suppose they will figure that out and change the system. However, I myself do not find this a make or break issue. The only thing that affects our Disney trips is the rising costs, which seems to be switching us to an "every other year" mode.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

We do not have smartphones and were not able to book fastpass plus online because our tickets were not linked before our arrival. We still managed to get decent fastpasses and got to do 3 of our favorite rides at Epcot on the day after Thanksgiving, arriving at the park mid afternoon.

We do not get to go often and got a little stressed over fastpass but it actually worked in our favor this past trip. I will reserve judgement after all the kinks have been worked out.

AWESOME! I am glad it worked for you and I think this will be true of many people in the future.

I also like the new FP system. My one caveat to it is to me they should make sort of a hybrid of the new and old. Perhaps you can pre-book the three FP+ ahead of time, even leaving the two-tier system.

But, then to me as of the opening of the park, they should allow anyone to get additional FPs as available using the old rules (once you enter the park, you can book additional FPs once every two hours as they are available). The reason is that if they convert everyone to FP+, there could be a LOT of unused FPs that are simply not available.

This way, everyone gets a chance to pre-book Soarin', but if I really want to ride it twice, I could book a second one the day of...

Just my two cents...I also feel pretty strongly that they will tweak the system as its going.

I think there will be tweaking and same day FP's available for everyone and Disney will limit how many can be reserved in advance. It will ultimately be fair because some will have reserved early and others will be able to get them at kiosks right after entering the park.

No one knows yet how the average person will use this FP reservation system so Disney is being conservative on how many it is allowing. As things settle out over the next year expect changes. The less the average person is making reservations ahead, or the less they are using FP+, the more extra FP+'s will be made available. And this is immediately flexible even same day!

Given the volume and how FP worked, I think there will be enough to go around for everyone - to a reasonable limit! AND it will be so much easier, more flexible, and all unwanted, changed, FP's will be able to be reused. That is what will allow some of the same day, same hour, FP's to be available. AND Disney will now be able to track movement of people and can adjust variable factors including number of FP's to better accomodate crowds. Win-win-win.

The playing field has always been level. It was one's choice whether they wanted to participate in the legacy system as it will be ones choice to participate in the new system.

But make no mistake, Fastpass+ is a penalty if you choose to stay off property. So in a sense, the playing field is being unleveled. Guest relations at Epcot told me that there will be most likely addition FPs for pass holders 1st quarter 2014. That will benefit me, but again, the playing field is being unleveled. And when the implement a system that rewards you with FPs base on the resort you stay at (and this will happen), it will further unlevel the playing field.

MB and FP+ has never been about the consumer... It's about maximizing profits.

Level playing field is all in your perspective. To your average joe that didn't want to run or didn't know, it wasn't fair. To them the new one is more fair or level, and you think it isn't. All in perspective. From Disney's perspective a far larger number will now think it is level. Hmmm

If you had early early extra magic hours you had an unfair advantage to both ride the ride AND get fast passes. You also paid a lot to stay on site. This is not any different. AND when it all shakes out, Disney will accomodate everyone and allow off site people to have FP+'s to some degree. As they work out the system they will favor on site guests. They ALLWAYS HAVE! Free parking, extra and early hours, etc., etc.

MB and FP+ never about consumer about profits?! You cannot separate they two. It was never about your wants as opposed to profits. But Disney makes money off pleasing the consumer. And they are with both FP and MM+. I can understand that if you don't like it, it is very galling. But Disney is serving the consumer, just not your segment. Sorry.

 

[beer dave]

You know, what we really need is access to the info that we will never have access to---

For years, Disney has been compiling statistics taken from the park entry turnstiles and the FP distribution machines. They know what percentage of guests use FP, they know what percent pull 3 FP, and they know who hits the machine on the minute of the next FP being available. If these numbers were available to us, we could probably end all of this discussion.

If the statistics show that there is a relatively small group who largely rely on FP, and a large percentage who do not use at all, it would make sense for Dis to adjust the system to accommodate the larger group of guests. Obviously the converse would be true also.

The truth is out there... all we need is a high level Dis exec to give us the numbers.... maybe they are with out actually giving them to us.

 

[Mad-Jasper]

I am not saying that they WON'T do this...but people have been talking about there being some sort of park benefit for staying at Deluxe resorts for as long as I've been on the DIS (7 years) and have claimed that they will do that with Next-Gen/FP+. However, Disney has never once given ANY indication that they are going to do this. So far, there has never been any PARK benefit (other than location to the parks) of staying at a Deluxe. They have not even indicated that there will be a difference between off-site and on-site guests regarding FP+. In fact, the only thing they have stated is that the new system will eventually be rolled out to everyone - including day guests. All I can tell you is that some people hated FP when it came out, and wer (and still are) convinced that it made lines longer and ruined the park experience. Those people were wrong, though it definitely changed the park experience. This (FP+) will again change the park experience, and if its for the better or worse, that is in the eye of the user. If enough people dislike it enough to stop going, then I suppose they will figure that out and change the system. However, I myself do not find this a make or break issue. The only thing that affects our Disney trips is the rising costs, which seems to be switching us to an "every other year" mode.

Deluxe and up resorts have better overall bus service based on my experience. We mostly stay at value resorts because I refuse to pay a premium just to sleep in a bed, but over the years we have stayed at deluxe and up resorts when AP discounts made it possible and if there was one thing that stood out to us, it was better overall bus service.

 

[Mad-Jasper]

Level playing field is all in your perspective. To your average joe that didn't want to run or didn't know, it wasn't fair. To them the new one is more fair or level, and you think it isn't. All in perspective. From Disney's perspective a far larger number will now think it is level. Hmmm If you had early early extra magic hours you had an unfair advantage to both ride the ride AND get fast passes. You also paid a lot to stay on site. This is not any different. AND when it all shakes out, Disney will accomodate everyone and allow off site people to have FP+'s to some degree. As they work out the system they will favor on site guests. They ALLWAYS HAVE! Free parking, extra and early hours, etc., etc. MB and FP+ never about consumer about profits?! You cannot separate they two. It was never about your wants as opposed to profits. But Disney makes money off pleasing the consumer. And they are with both FP and MM+. I can understand that if you don't like it, it is very galling. But Disney is serving the consumer, just not your segment. Sorry.

A level playing field isn't about equal results, it's about equal opportunities. Everyone had the same opportunity to benefit form legacy FP. If you chose not to do so, it wasn't unfair, it was simply your choice. EMH, for the most part, was an addition for resort guest, not a penalty for non-resort guest. Disney really hasn't done anything in the past decade that has been consumer satisfaction driven. The expansions have mostly been to increase revenue (restaurants, shops, DVC), not park capacity, which is desperately needed. Walt's vision has long been abandoned. That said, FP+ wasn't as bad as I thought it would be once we learned how to use it. In fact, it worked well for our style of park-going at non-tiered parks. Go early, ride a lot without FPs. Save the FPs for the evening. Being able to reschedule was a nice addition. However, the system dropped about half the changes. Luckily, I had screenshots. And I couldn't access anything in MDE at all today. Again, good thing I'd taken screenshots. Guest relations had some of the longest lines in the parks over the weekend. And worse, none of the CMs I talked to were on the same page. But FPs were never a deal breaker. My kid is 13 so princesses and characters are not that interesting to her anymore. We like to ride. What we have finally discovered is that Disney is just not a park for riding rides. We've been going more for nostalgia than anything else. Wild Adventures has more headliners that AK, Epcot and HS combined and a Gold AP is less than $80 a year. And I don't need FPs because they manage their park capacity. It's likely that instead of 5-6 trips a year, it will be a once EoY trip for us.

 

[skier_pete]

Deluxe and up resorts have better overall bus service based on my experience. We mostly stay at value resorts because I refuse to pay a premium just to sleep in a bed, but over the years we have stayed at deluxe and up resorts when AP discounts made it possible and if there was one thing that stood out to us, it was better overall bus service.

I don't have a LOT of experience with it, but what limited I do is the bus service is not any better from the Deluxes. We stayed at AKL and other than to AK the bus service was no better than mods/values, though generally the busses never got quite as crowded because of the smaller size of the resorts. We still had bad expereinces where it took us an hour to get from the hotel to MK, and others that were really good.

And we've taken buses from some of the Epcot resorts, and they suck big-time because they have to stop at FIVE resorts. Once we had gotten on at the Swan/Dolphin (I can't tell them apart) and by the time we got to the Boardwalk (5th stop) our bus was full and there was a line of about 100 peole at the Boardwalk waiting for the bus, but we could only take a few of them on. I remember thinking if I was paying the prices to stay at those resorts, I would be soooo pissed about that.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

"Bad service" At animal kingdom is pet peeve a mine.

I know... It's "so far out"...except if you use a map and a ruler it's not.
But it is the end of the line...and it also is on the backside of savannah habitats that isolate it and increase the travel time to get to the place. I don't hear anyone complaining about how far the monorail hotels are from the other stuff... But they are.

I know, I know...fiberglass castle/moviescreen out of the window cures all.

And the other bad thing... And a recurring theme...is that they just quit on the park... Which takes alot of the appeal of the hotel while you're there...

But that place is really an amazing job by Disney...a fantastic hotel from top to bottom. I always will say "suck it up" if you have to have slower buses. Kidani was a stupid design, in my opinion...but overall the place and their services are really well done.

Anybody who would prefer to pay the price of contemporary or the grand or the moderates or art of animation in comparison...
Well, isn't on "my team"

 

[MommyBell08]

I am so excited for Fastpass+, and I couldn't agree more. We are a family of four and have two littles. We are so over bombarding Hollywood studios with a HUGE pack for Toystory Mania, and running through the crowds for Peter Pan at MK. Its so great be able to schedule the rides we MUST go on, and then just relax and see other things around our ADR's and FP's. Starting to plan this trip is so much more relaxing knowing we can plan ahead, and not worry if we aren't there RIGHT when the park opens; it's stressful and makes for long days with little kids. I AM SO GLAD FOR fastpass+