Disney release preview of avatar attractions

[clsteve]

You could argue about merchandising and the first film, I'm not sure how much Cameron pursued the merchandising and marketing element, but I would guess Disney would nudge more in that direction. I would go as far as saying that had this partnership existed 6 or 7 years ago, the merchandising aspect of the first film would've went far beyond what it was.

Pretty sure that's exactly what I said.

The first Avatar did not generate any merchandising opportunities. Cameron is now in the Theme Park business. Retail is key to the success of a themed, immersive Land. Disney are the masters of which formulas of movie/character/merchandise combinations achieve Theme Park success. Disney wouldn't be in this partnership unless they were 100% confident that the coming movies fit the formula for Theme Park success.

So, how "Disney" will the new movies be? (and, I don't mean that in a bad way, at all). How much of that Disney partnership, and need for merchandising will show up in character/plot dev?

The first Avatar had the visuals for a themed land and the rides. But zero on the merch side. And, there are those gift shops that need those things guests want to buy. Disney, I'm sure want those to be things that the kids are screaming at Mom and Dad to get for them. Somewhere in the movies he's going to need something unique for that restaurant, as well.

It's an historically unique occurrence in this business:a series of films written, developed, and filmed concurrent with Parks development. To the point of one holding the other up.

When you look at Cameron's Film history, it's not really one that's been "Disney kid friendly", do you think? Now in a partnership with the arguably most "kid friendly", "Princess creating" Theme Park Company in the world. Both of whom are not known to be the easiest entities to work with, either. How that dynamic plays out in the Park and the movie could give a lot of insight into who's the top dog driving the relationship

Personally, I hope Cameron gets to keep some of his "edge" - he's great at it - even all the way back to the campy "Escape From New York" days . I mean, AK is about Nature and Nature's a dangerous place. AK does have some of that edge already with The Yeti and EE, and Dinosaur. A little "edge" in AvatarLand, with a bone or 2 thrown to the boys of the world plot and merch-wise, wouldn't be bad at all. It's were Cameron's done his best work.

 

[clsteve]

Merchandise is extremely important. However, let's remember who Cameron thinks he is.

He fundamentally believes that he is genius/artist. I don't think that he's going to bend to the forces of the Walt Disney Company. He's obviously not interested in taking marching orders from Fox. Do you think that they're happy with his constant project delays? Nope. They go along with it because they think he's money in the bank.

I think it's also worth recalling how he almost backed out of the Avatarland. Disney was so desperate to get him cooperating, that they started having discussions with the guys behind The Lord of the Rings Movies. This was only done to scare him back into line. It appears to have worked. Still this proves just how finicky he can be.

This is a man with an enormous ego, and a reputation to match. Avatar is his franchise. Not Disney's, not Fox's, not anyone else's.

He's also seen what happened to Star Wars, and I doubt that he'll make the same type of mistakes.

I could be completely wrong, but History just doesn't make a strong case for him selling out.

One other note I found interesting. There actually has been a franchise developed in conjunction with its theme parks land. Look to none other then Cars 2 and the Land. One specific example is Flo's V8 Cafe. When they were designing that restaurant they found it wasn't large enough to accommodate the number of patrons they were after. Lasseter found out about this problem, and then said they could incorporate that into the new movie. Due to Radiator Springs becoming a tourist destination, the cafe would've needed more room. So they expanded it in movie just the right way. That same design was implemented in real life too.

I found that a cool story.

Well, if he didn't bend, he got married instead. Married to Disney.

Big difference. 2 strong-headed, hard to work with entities. This isn't a movie gig. This is a living, breathing theme park land. It's like having a kid. A movie is done and you can move on - the world James is used to. Not this. It needs feeding - for decades. Disney knows what it needs to eat, for better or worse.

And, we can conjecture all we want about how it's all Jimmy's. The final product(s) will tell us a lot more about the relationship than all of the conjecture....

 

[DDLand]

Well, if he didn't bend, he got married instead. Married to Disney.

Big difference. 2 strong-headed, hard to work with entities. This isn't a movie gig. This is a living, breathing theme park land. It's like having a kid. A movie is done and you can move on - the world James is used to. Not this. It needs feeding - for decades. Disney knows what it needs to eat, for better or worse.

And, we can conjecture all we want about how it's all Jimmy's. The final product(s) will tell us a lot more about the relationship than all of the conjecture....

Well articulated.

Your point is valid that Cameron may be really invested in this, and willing to do anything to make it succeed.

I still remain an unconvinced as he was still being problematic into 2012. Though as you pointed out we can't know for sure.

You're right about the opening being one interesting piece of the puzzle...

 

[DanBoris]

Merchandise is extremely important. However, let's remember who Cameron thinks he is.

He fundamentally believes that he is genius/artist. I don't think that he's going to bend to the forces of the Walt Disney Company. He's obviously not interested in taking marching orders from Fox. Do you think that they're happy with his constant project delays? Nope. They go along with it because they think he's money in the bank.

I think it's also worth recalling how he almost backed out of the Avatarland. Disney was so desperate to get him cooperating, that they started having discussions with the guys behind The Lord of the Rings Movies. This was only done to scare him back into line. It appears to have worked. Still this proves just how finicky he can be.

This is a man with an enormous ego, and a reputation to match. Avatar is his franchise. Not Disney's, not Fox's, not anyone else's.

He's also seen what happened to Star Wars, and I doubt that he'll make the same type of mistakes.

I could be completely wrong, but History just doesn't make a strong case for him selling out.

One other note I found interesting. There actually has been a franchise developed in conjunction with its theme parks land. Look to none other then Cars 2 and the Land. One specific example is Flo's V8 Cafe. When they were designing that restaurant they found it wasn't large enough to accommodate the number of patrons they were after. Lasseter found out about this problem, and then said they could incorporate that into the new movie. Due to Radiator Springs becoming a tourist destination, the cafe would've needed more room. So they expanded it in movie just the right way. That same design was implemented in real life too.

I found that a cool story.

I would agree with this, I find it very unlikely that Cameron would get in a agreement that would give Disney any influence over the content of the next movies. Even if Cameron was getting a cut of the merch, I don't know if he would adjust the films just to increase merch sales, it's not like he needs the money.

 

[mvk]

Pretty sure that's exactly what I said.

The first Avatar did not generate any merchandising opportunities. Cameron is now in the Theme Park business. Retail is key to the success of a themed, immersive Land. Disney are the masters of which formulas of movie/character/merchandise combinations achieve Theme Park success. Disney wouldn't be in this partnership unless they were 100% confident that the coming movies fit the formula for Theme Park success.

So, how "Disney" will the new movies be? (and, I don't mean that in a bad way, at all). How much of that Disney partnership, and need for merchandising will show up in character/plot dev?

The first Avatar had the visuals for a themed land and the rides. But zero on the merch side. And, there are those gift shops that need those things guests want to buy. Disney, I'm sure want those to be things that the kids are screaming at Mom and Dad to get for them. Somewhere in the movies he's going to need something unique for that restaurant, as well.

It's an historically unique occurrence in this business:a series of films written, developed, and filmed concurrent with Parks development. To the point of one holding the other up.

When you look at Cameron's Film history, it's not really one that's been "Disney kid friendly", do you think? Now in a partnership with the arguably most "kid friendly", "Princess creating" Theme Park Company in the world. Both of whom are not known to be the easiest entities to work with, either. How that dynamic plays out in the Park and the movie could give a lot of insight into who's the top dog driving the relationship

Personally, I hope Cameron gets to keep some of his "edge" - he's great at it - even all the way back to the campy "Escape From New York" days . I mean, AK is about Nature and Nature's a dangerous place. AK does have some of that edge already with The Yeti and EE, and Dinosaur. A little "edge" in AvatarLand, with a bone or 2 thrown to the boys of the world plot and merch-wise, wouldn't be bad at all. It's were Cameron's done his best work.

I think you misinterpreted my point. My point was, had the partnership existed then, with the exact same movie, the merchandising would've likely been better. I just don't think Cameron pursued it all that much. The movie had the same aspects that you 'predicted' for the sequel... young male/female in the hero arc and a race/species that could be marketed. The Navi girl was a princess, and the blue species could've been marketed much better as a product line. You don't think there would be Navi Mickey, Minnie, Goofy, etc. everywhere?

 

[clsteve]

I think you misinterpreted my point. My point was, had the partnership existed then, with the exact same movie, the merchandising would've likely been better. I just don't think Cameron pursued it all that much. The movie had the same aspects that you 'predicted' for the sequel... young male/female in the hero arc and a race/species that could be marketed. The Navi girl was a princess, and the blue species could've been marketed much better as a product line. You don't think there would be Navi Mickey, Minnie, Goofy, etc. everywhere?

If the retail/merch was only about getting blue Mickeys, Minnie's, and Donald's in the Park... We would be riding those new banshees much, much sooner.

The whole science behind Merchandising, product line dev, target marketing, etc., is much more complex - before even getting into the supply side. Add in concurrent movie and Park Dev.... and two separate production companies (and structures) - rebranding the same tried and true Disney characters is underselling it a bit.....

 

[JB22]

looks amazing

 

[Merbean09]

Pardon me for being new to Avatarland news and info, but the Soarin' type ride will be the same layout as Soarin' (I'm not a theme park expert and wish I could describe what I mean better) rather than utilizing the Forbidden Journey layout that seems more intense for an E-ticket attraction and easily applicable for the theme? That seems odd, if not silly, in my opinion. I'm not excited for Avatar because it felt extremely lackluster, and my pixie dust has run out in the past two years. Also, the underwater things that are said to happen in the next film seem more interesting/intriguing for a theme park.

 

[rteetz]

Pardon me for being new to Avatarland news and info, but the Soarin' type ride will be the same layout as Soarin' (I'm not a theme park expert and wish I could describe what I mean better) rather than utilizing the Forbidden Journey layout that seems more intense for an E-ticket attraction and easily applicable for the theme? That seems odd, if not silly, in my opinion. I'm not excited for Avatar because it felt extremely lackluster, and my pixie dust has run out in the past two years. Also, the underwater things that are said to happen in the next film seem more interesting/intriguing for a theme park.

It is not the same layout it is a bit different. This will also not be like forbidden journey.

 

[DanBoris]

Pardon me for being new to Avatarland news and info, but the Soarin' type ride will be the same layout as Soarin' (I'm not a theme park expert and wish I could describe what I mean better) rather than utilizing the Forbidden Journey layout that seems more intense for an E-ticket attraction and easily applicable for the theme? That seems odd, if not silly, in my opinion. I'm not excited for Avatar because it felt extremely lackluster, and my pixie dust has run out in the past two years. Also, the underwater things that are said to happen in the next film seem more interesting/intriguing for a theme park.

The leaked plans show a ride system that is a close match to this...

http://www.vekoma.com/index.php/specialities-and-attractions/panoramic-flight-simulator

So it appears that it will be a "ride vehicle suspended in front of a screen" ride but probably with a large range of actual motion then Soarin. It doesn't not appear that is will be a vehicle moving through a physical environment like FJ.

 

[George4]

If that's the new system, I hope they are putting in at least four of them to solve some of the capacity problems that this ride has the potential of having. The overhead pictures I saw look like there are clearly 2 theaters, and maybe 4 depending on the actual build. Here's hoping that in two years we'll have a great addition.

 

[rteetz]

If that's the new system, I hope they are putting in at least four of them to solve some of the capacity problems that this ride has the potential of having. The overhead pictures I saw look like there are clearly 2 theaters, and maybe 4 depending on the actual build. Here's hoping that in two years we'll have a great addition.

There are four theaters.

 

[George4]

There are four theaters.

Excellent! Starting to solve some capacity problems. At over 3,000 riders per hour, that will be about triple what Soarin' currently offers and almost double what it will offer with the 3rd theater.