Disney release preview of avatar attractions

[clsteve]

Okay....

So who wants to place a Gentleman's (or woman's) bet on the upcoming Avatar Movies....?

I'm betting that they will heavily feature one, 2, or all three of the following:

1) A young, Princess-type, Heroine

2) An adorable, cuddly, slightly comedic, race of beings/inhabitants (think Ewoks as an example) that just begs for merchandising

3) A speaking character from the same above set of beings that maybe provides some comedic relief that kids just love....​

They're going to need something for those gift shops. And, it will be interesting to see how far Cameron might be influenced by that need to have some of these types of things woven into his plots as kickers for Theme Park success now that he's a Theme Park mogul and has a vested interest in that success....

 

[clsteve]

To add to that bet:

Or... will he go with a young boys direction, with the "young male on a quest" angle - a la Potter, Sword in the Stone, Luke Skywalker vein to accomplish the same goals....?

Provide that same merchandising hook with a young male angle. develop similar merchandising opportunities, but more along the ride vehicles, wands, swords, light sabers, action figures track...?

 

[twebber55]

$500 million for two rides? No wonder they don't want to invest money in their parks. Whatever happened to putting in a variety of less expensive rides along with the big ones. Put in one 'E' ticket, along with a couple B, C, and D ticket rides. If you add 10,000 people per day (lofty number probably) and they all want to go on one ride, it doesn't make a for a great experience. If they can be divided between 4, 5 or 6 rides of varying levels of thrill, then the additional crowds aren't all focused in one area. Disney seems to want to add one thing that blows people away with this one, whereas adding a complete land with multiple rides, restaurants, shops, and shows would be a much more effective addition in the long run. I mentioned this on another forum here, Disney isn't thinking long term any more. They want the quick flashy addition. I guess we'll see in three years, but that is a tremendous amount of time for one or two rides. They better be spectacular or the time and money will have been such a waste.

well look at Cars land 1 E ticket and two also rans

 

[hakepb]

well look at Cars land 1 E ticket and two also rans

Although it is was added to a park that already had: TSMM
ToT, Soarin, California Screamin(RnR), GRR (Kali)...

 

[DDLand]

Although it is was added to a park that already had: TSMM
ToT, Soarin, California Screamin(RnR), GRR (Kali)...

That's the funny thing about DCA. The lineup was killer just a little small. They added in one awesome ride, some meh rides, little mermaid, and a couple re done areas. World of Color, RSRs, and Little Mermaid brought new life to that park. How many people really go to DCA to hangout at Flo's V8 Cafe or Buena Vista Street? Not many.

For all the praise the update has gotten, it really didn't accomplish much if you think about it.

 

[rteetz]

That's the funny thing about DCA. The lineup was killer just a little small. They added in one awesome ride, some meh rides, little mermaid, and a couple re done areas. World of Color, RSRs, and Little Mermaid brought new life to that park. How many people really go to DCA to hangout at Flo's V8 Cafe or Buena Vista Street? Not many.

For all the praise the update has gotten, it really didn't accomplish much if you think about it.

But it did make it a visitable park and gave it something worth making a trip.

 

[twebber55]

That's the funny thing about DCA. The lineup was killer just a little small. They added in one awesome ride, some meh rides, little mermaid, and a couple re done areas. World of Color, RSRs, and Little Mermaid brought new life to that park. How many people really go to DCA to hangout at Flo's V8 Cafe or Buena Vista Street? Not many.

For all the praise the update has gotten, it really didn't accomplish much if you think about it.

Didnt the attendance jump substantially st DCA?

 

[mvk]

To add to that bet:

Or... will he go with a young boys direction, with the "young male on a quest" angle - a la Potter, Sword in the Stone, Luke Skywalker vein to accomplish the same goals....?

Provide that same merchandising hook with a young male angle. develop similar merchandising opportunities, but more along the ride vehicles, wands, swords, light sabers, action figures track...?

So you're betting that the movie is going to include either a young male or a young female, and that there will probably be some comedic relief? Wow, way to go out on a limb there. You've described just about every single 'blockbuster' type movie that has come out in the past 40 years or so.

 

[DDLand]

$500 million for two rides? No wonder they don't want to invest money in their parks. Whatever happened to putting in a variety of less expensive rides along with the big ones. Put in one 'E' ticket, along with a couple B, C, and D ticket rides. If you add 10,000 people per day (lofty number probably) and they all want to go on one ride, it doesn't make a for a great experience. If they can be divided between 4, 5 or 6 rides of varying levels of thrill, then the additional crowds aren't all focused in one area. Disney seems to want to add one thing that blows people away with this one, whereas adding a complete land with multiple rides, restaurants, shops, and shows would be a much more effective addition in the long run. I mentioned this on another forum here, Disney isn't thinking long term any more. They want the quick flashy addition. I guess we'll see in three years, but that is a tremendous amount of time for one or two rides. They better be spectacular or the time and money will have been such a waste.

You pretty much nailed it on the head.

Things like Cars Land, Avatarland, Toy Story Land, Pirates Cove, etc. would've never used to happen. They're all tied to the success of one franchise longterm.

Frontierland, World Showcase, Fantasyland, etc. are modular and can be updated one piece at a time.

This is the problem with these troublesome moves. As much as I want to believe that the movies we're watching are going to be popular forever, I know better. New or better franchises will move in, and either be more relevant or just better. Was I the only one who thinks Disney is probably regretting making massive walls of rock blocking any further expansion in Fantasyland after Frozen came out? They could cram it in somewhere but it would look ridiculous in all the themed areas currently existing. It would require retooling existing areas, and rebuilding all new athestics. Remember when opening a new ride entailed just replacing the audio animatronics inside? That's not possible anymore in the direction Disney is going.

Also of note is just how much of these budgets are being blown on themeing outside areas. This is a trend started with basically HP. I know they want to tell one story all the way through, but I was fine with more generic themeing being a trade off for better rides.

I can see their thinking...
Imagineer 1: Do you think they'll really love a slightly better version of Soarin instead of new rides?
Imagineer 2: Who knows, but those floating mountains and glowing plants are just so cool!

Half of me understands, but the other half is starting to get frustrated by their choices to spend the money that could buy 2 Etickets for 1 E-Ticket and more Rockwork.

Shanghai is probably one of the best examples. The roster of known rides isn't actually huge. The budget is going to the lands. We'll see the reaction to that...

 

[DDLand]

Didnt the attendance jump substantially st DCA?

Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong but from 2009 to the most recent numbers it rose around 30%. That's my recollection. No doubt that it had an awesome effect on DCA. Just the money didn't go very far.

 

[hakepb]

You pretty much nailed it on the head.

Things like Cars Land, Avatarland, Toy Story Land, Pirates Cove, etc. would've never used to happen. They're all tied to the success of one franchise longterm.

Frontierland, World Showcase, Fantasyland, etc. are modular and can be updated one piece at a time.

This is the problem with these troublesome moves. As much as I want to believe that the movies we're watching are going to be popular forever, I know better. New or better franchises will move in, and either be more relevant or just better. Was I the only one who thinks Disney is probably regretting making massive walls of rock blocking any further expansion in Fantasyland after Frozen came out? They could cram it in somewhere but it would look ridiculous in all the themed areas currently existing. It would require retooling existing areas, and rebuilding all new athestics. Remember when opening a new ride entailed just replacing the audio animatronics inside? That's not possible anymore in the direction Disney is going.

Also of note is just how much of these budgets are being blown on themeing outside areas. This is a trend started with basically HP. I know they want to tell one story all the way through, but I was fine with more generic themeing being a trade off for better rides.

I can see their thinking...
Imagineer 1: Do you think they'll really love a slightly better version of Soarin instead of new rides?
Imagineer 2: Who knows, but those floating mountains and glowing plants are just so cool!

Half of me understands, but the other half is starting to get frustrated by their choices to spend the money that could buy 2 Etickets for 1 E-Ticket and more Rockwork.

Shanghai is probably one of the best examples. The roster of known rides isn't actually huge. The budget is going to the lands. We'll see the reaction to that...

at one point, I read a rumor that Disney was partnering with a company that had a more "extreme" Soarin mechanism that required shoulder harnesses so the rows could tilt and twist while allowing the rows to go up and down during the show.....or, did I dream that and will now be sorely disappointed?

 

[DDLand]

at one point, I read a rumor that Disney was partnering with a company that had a more "extreme" Soarin mechanism that required shoulder harnesses so the rows could tilt and twist while allowing the rows to go up and down during the show.....or, did I dream that and will now be sorely disappointed?

I think I read that on Disneyandmore blogspot. It does look pretty cool.

 

[rteetz]

At one point, t

at one point, I read a rumor that Disney was partnering with a company that had a more "extreme" Soarin mechanism that required shoulder harnesses so the rows could tilt and twist while allowing the rows to go up and down during the show.....or, did I dream that and will now be sorely disappointed?

Disney never partnered with them. They are supposed to use a similar ride system to what that company developed but there was no partnership. It is expected that this will be a more extreme type of Soarin.

 

[clsteve]

So you're betting that the movie is going to include either a young male or a young female, and that there will probably be some comedic relief? Wow, way to go out on a limb there. You've described just about every single 'blockbuster' type movie that has come out in the past 40 years or so.

Actually, not the main point of what I was bringing up.

The point was the merchandising. One of the more intriguing aspects in all of this to watch and a direct impact on AvatarLand. The original movie, taking all popularity discussions out of it, did not have the commensurate success in retail and merchandising as you would expect for a franchise chosen as a Theme Park Land anchor.

However, it is a very important aspect of Theme Park success. If Avatar's Park contribution was a specific ride, that's not nearly as important. You can point to a lot of successful rides that do not have the follow-on merchandise uplift.

A complete Land is a different story. Merch can arguably be as important or more, to much more, to the bottom line as the gate uplift and to the overall franchise (ask George Lucas).

You know that merch was one of the key points for Disney in the negotiations - no matter which side of the financing for all of this debate you fall on.

For Cameron, this is new territory to some extent - creating a story that takes that merchandise aspect into account, now that he's in the Theme Park business. To successfully play in the Lucas/Rolling playground - merch has to be considered. You know Disney said it has to be considered, contractually considered.

What theme and angle he utilizes to do so, could also give a little insight into what creative control influence Disney might have with the upcoming Trilogy. Insight into the partnership. They are the masters at maximizing the merchandise aspect of film. And are beyond experienced in which themes bring in maximum retail uplift.

This is unique in Theme Park history - a land being developed in conjunction with the movies. To the point that it development schedule and project timeline is controlled by what's in the movie. It wouldn't be a shock that it's the character dev in terms of merchandising that's a big part of that.

 

[twebber55]

at one point, I read a rumor that Disney was partnering with a company that had a more "extreme" Soarin mechanism that required shoulder harnesses so the rows could tilt and twist while allowing the rows to go up and down during the show.....or, did I dream that and will now be sorely disappointed?

im thinking the new simulator for Pandora could be something along those lines

 

[think-like-tink]

I enjoyed reading this, drinking my cup. I am not a fan of Avatar. I hope the next movie has cleaned up language.

I was against in the beginning, but, the art concept has peaked my interest...some. I will not stand in line for characters, I will not buy merchandise, I will not eat green eggs and ham. Oh, wait.....

 

[twebber55]

I enjoyed reading this, drinking my cup. I am not a fan of Avatar. I hope the next movie has cleaned up language.

I was against in the beginning, but, the art concept has peaked my interest...some. I will not stand in line for characters, I will not buy merchandise, I will not eat green eggs and ham. Oh, wait.....

do you know what merchandise there will be? if so that would be awesome to know
thanks

 

[tyson127]

They still would need to retrofit and area - probably dinoland - to a more "kids centric" place and add a land area between Asia and dinoland. Austrailian will always make the most sense.

I very much agree regarding an Australia themed area. It might even beg a movie.

 

[mvk]

Actually, not the main point of what I was bringing up.

The point was the merchandising. One of the more intriguing aspects in all of this to watch and a direct impact on AvatarLand. The original movie, taking all popularity discussions out of it, did not have the commensurate success in retail and merchandising as you would expect for a franchise chosen as a Theme Park Land anchor.

Point is, its very likely that the movie(s) were going to contain these types of characters, whether there was a theme park tie-in or not. So when there is a young male or woman in a hero arc, with a secondary (or lesser) character integrated for comedic relief, or a race of beings that are presented as cuddly or adorable or whatever, you are naturally going to assume Disney dictated this due to merchandising, rather than it being just a fact that pretty much every single blockbuster over the past 40 years has followed this basic premise or formula. I mean, even looking at the first movie, the two lead characters were portrayed as younger, especially the female Navi. They had the hero arc. And there was certainly a race of beings that could've been marketed, in the Navi, who might not've been cuddly, but they were sympathetic and interesting looking.

You could argue about merchandising and the first film, I'm not sure how much Cameron pursued the merchandising and marketing element, but I would guess Disney would nudge more in that direction. I would go as far as saying that had this partnership existed 6 or 7 years ago, the merchandising aspect of the first film would've went far beyond what it was.

 

[DDLand]

Actually, not the main point of what I was bringing up.

The point was the merchandising. One of the more intriguing aspects in all of this to watch and a direct impact on AvatarLand. The original movie, taking all popularity discussions out of it, did not have the commensurate success in retail and merchandising as you would expect for a franchise chosen as a Theme Park Land anchor.

However, it is a very important aspect of Theme Park success. If Avatar's Park contribution was a specific ride, that's not nearly as important. You can point to a lot of successful rides that do not have the follow-on merchandise uplift.

A complete Land is a different story. Merch can arguably be as important or more, to much more, to the bottom line as the gate uplift and to the overall franchise (ask George Lucas).

You know that merch was one of the key points for Disney in the negotiations - no matter which side of the financing for all of this debate you fall on.

For Cameron, this is new territory to some extent - creating a story that takes that merchandise aspect into account, now that he's in the Theme Park business. To successfully play in the Lucas/Rolling playground - merch has to be considered. You know Disney said it has to be considered, contractually considered.

What theme and angle he utilizes to do so, could also give a little insight into what creative control influence Disney might have with the upcoming Trilogy. Insight into the partnership. They are the masters at maximizing the merchandise aspect of film. And are beyond experienced in which themes bring in maximum retail uplift.

This is unique in Theme Park history - a land being developed in conjunction with the movies. To the point that it development schedule and project timeline is controlled by what's in the movie. It wouldn't be a shock that it's the character dev in terms of merchandising that's a big part of that.

Merchandise is extremely important. However, let's remember who Cameron thinks he is.

He fundamentally believes that he is genius/artist. I don't think that he's going to bend to the forces of the Walt Disney Company. He's obviously not interested in taking marching orders from Fox. Do you think that they're happy with his constant project delays? Nope. They go along with it because they think he's money in the bank.

I think it's also worth recalling how he almost backed out of the Avatarland. Disney was so desperate to get him cooperating, that they started having discussions with the guys behind The Lord of the Rings Movies. This was only done to scare him back into line. It appears to have worked. Still this proves just how finicky he can be.

This is a man with an enormous ego, and a reputation to match. Avatar is his franchise. Not Disney's, not Fox's, not anyone else's.

He's also seen what happened to Star Wars, and I doubt that he'll make the same type of mistakes.

I could be completely wrong, but History just doesn't make a strong case for him selling out.

One other note I found interesting. There actually has been a franchise developed in conjunction with its theme parks land. Look to none other then Cars 2 and the Land. One specific example is Flo's V8 Cafe. When they were designing that restaurant they found it wasn't large enough to accommodate the number of patrons they were after. Lasseter found out about this problem, and then said they could incorporate that into the new movie. Due to Radiator Springs becoming a tourist destination, the cafe would've needed more room. So they expanded it in movie just the right way. That same design was implemented in real life too.

I found that a cool story.