Disney and the No-fly Zone

[Dznefreek]

Seems Disneywas more interested in keeping out competition not terrorists. <a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/custom/tourism/orl-asecdisney11051103may11,0,5579931.story?coll=orl%2Dhome%2Dheadlines">Here</a> is the article.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Seems like a "Catch 22" to me. The Disney properties were mentioned as possible targets for terrorist attacks and perhaps this was the extra push that Disney needed to get the air restrictions put into place. Granted Disney doesn't own the air space, but personally I find nothing more obnoxious then when I'm out somewhere and I hear a plane buzzing overhead with a sign tailing behind that says "Eat at Joe's". I find it tacky, but that is just me. On the flip side though, Walt tried to make the World an "immersive" experience, so by planes flying overhead toting banners kind of takes away from that.

 

[one_cat]

I think no fly zones are stupid. There is no way to enforce them - after all a suicidal terrorist doesn't care if he loses his pilots license. That said, I do like the idea that pilots have to stay over a certain height over Disney. We saw several helicopters while we were touring last week and they were distracting.

 

[Jo-Jo21]

Speaking as someone who lost a brother in the 9-11 WTC attacks, I am thrilled that these measures have been taken. I know it won't deter the terrorist determined to cause chaos and mass destruction but it does give me some peace of mind. I still look up whenever there is a low flying plane. Our family vacation to Disney in 2/02 was a welcomed and much needed escape after the tragedy. Our trip prior to this in 2000 was with my WHOLE family, inculding my brother. Disney has very special memories for me and God willing, we will be fortunate enough to go there every year from now on to cherish happy memories and create new ones . . . and feel safe and secure while there.

 

[jlima]

There's a case in Detroit that's making headlines here in Las Vegas . . . some suspected terrorists were found with videotapes of Disneyland and also some Las Vegas hotels including the MGM Grand. I stop what I'm doing when I hear an airplane at work and I wish McCarran airport weren't so close to the strip. Good riddance to all of 'em . . . won't have to look at all of those planes on our next DL trip.

 

[jadedNYer]

Hmmmm, as one who used to have a view of the WTC (my neighbors down the hall saw the second plane hit) I think Disney is getting preferential treatment. Planes are still flying over NYC which can't be avoided when they are going to LGA.
The no-fly zone only removes one possible method of attack but it will be one less worry at WDW. I am more afraid of getting on the subway. Now my heart stops every time a train stops in a tunnel.

 

[roymccoy]

Oh, there's no doubt about it. This was all done for Disney in the guise of "security". It's the same reason that they still check your bags (even though nothing has ever been found, weapon wise, I'm told by a friend at TDA at DL.) They're looking for food and other contraband that isn't allowed into the parks for monetary reasons, not security reasons. They'd pat you down if they could get away with it, to check for contraband. Disney wants you to pay $2.50 for a 20 oz. Coke, not bring it in with you. They check our 1 year olds diaper and food bag like we've hidden the antedote in it, looking for contraband food and drinks.

This flight restriction over DL and WDW is totally useless, unless you're Disney trying to keep out competition. As I have said before, my wife is a pilot and we own a small plane and the DL flight restriction has almost shut us down. It is also dangerous to pilot's to have to alter course to get around it. The flight restriction does ABSOULTELY NOTHING to make our days at DL safer. It only hurts law-abiding pilots. There is nothing in place at all to stop aircraft from breaking into the restricted area. There is only penalties that would come in the mail two weeks later from the FAA to pilots who break the area's boundries. What will that do to stop a terrorist who's coming in at 300-400 MPH to hit something with a plane in DL? Two weeks later, he or she will get a letter in the mail from the FAA telling them that they broke a TFR.

You shouldn't feel one bit better or safer at the Disney parks because of this flight restriction. It absolutely, 100% wouldn't stop any person or terrorist from doing anything they wanted to do at Disney. It just stops us law-abiding pilots from transitioning through the Disney area. It just serves as a false sense of security to the uninformed.

Roy

 

[Jo-Jo21]

Roymccoy, I am far from "uninformed". Perhaps because you live on the west coast, so far from the devastation and carnage that was 9-11, you didn't experience the sense of vulnerability and utter helplessness as those of us on the east coast. As I said in my previous post, "I know it won't deter the terrorist determined to cause chaos and mass destruction but it does give me some peace of mind." Even if it is a "false sense of security" it will make my time at Disney more enjoyable. Alot of Americans are going to have to sacrifice some of their freedoms inorder to live in a safer America. I for one am willing to do so.

 

[mitros]

We werw at WDW may 6,7,8, and we saw 2 airplanes and several helicopters over the property. I guess the rules don't apply to disney aircraft, although we did not see any disney markings on any of the craft.

 

[OnWithTheShow]

Roy,

Sorry but there is no regulations prohibiting guests from bringing food and beverage into the park. No glass containers or alcohol are permitted at anytime, but anything else is allowed. Security under no circumstances confiscates food. Also many weapons have been found including knives and firearms. They have added an Orange County Sheriffs Deputy to all the parks bag checks for just that situation. Why would they pay for a sheriffs deputy if bag checks were to check for food?

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by roymccoy
This flight restriction over DL and WDW is totally useless, unless you're Disney trying to keep out competition. As I have said before, my wife is a pilot and we own a small plane and the DL flight restriction has almost shut us down.

Just curious. How has it almost shut you down?

 

[roymccoy]

You know that it won't deter any terrorists but it gives you peace of mind at the parks? What does that mean? Consider this while you're having some peace of mind at the parks, my wife and I are up there in our plane navigating between the Disney TFR and the mountains to the east of DL and we are putting our lives at unnecessary risk just to give you the warm and fuzzies while you're at Disneyland. Disney is in some of the busiest airspace in the world and it puts a substantial amount of sequencing of the airplanes around to not bust the TFR at DL. This causes airplanes to be funneled to one or the other side of the TFR and this makes for more of a chance of a mid-air collission or distractions for the pilot.

Roy

As to your comment about people on the west coast not being as affected by the carnage of 911 as people on the east coast, I find that reprehensible.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by roymccoy
Oh, there's no doubt about it. This was all done for Disney in the guise of "security". It's the same reason that they still check your bags (even though nothing has ever been found, weapon wise, I'm told by a friend at TDA at DL.) They're looking for food and other contraband that isn't allowed into the parks for monetary reasons, not security reasons. They'd pat you down if they could get away with it, to check for contraband. Disney wants you to pay $2.50 for a 20 oz. Coke, not bring it in with you. They check our 1 year olds diaper and food bag like we've hidden the antedote in it, looking for contraband food and drinks.

So let's suppose that you are right, and Disney stops doing the security checks. Now someone walks through the gates with a gun and opens fire at a crowd on Main St. Where was that gun hidden? In a diaper bag. I'm all for giving up some of my personal privacy so I feel a little bit safer while on vacation. Heck, why don't we just stop security checks all together everywhere?

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by roymccoy
Consider this while you're having some peace of mind at the parks, my wife and I are up there in our plane navigating between the Disney TFR and the mountains to the east of DL and we are putting our lives at unnecessary risk just to give you the warm and fuzzies while you're at Disneyland. Disney is in some of the busiest airspace in the world and it puts a substantial amount of sequencing of the airplanes around to not bust the TFR at DL. This causes airplanes to be funneled to one or the other side of the TFR and this makes for more of a chance of a mid-air collission or distractions for the pilot.

So what about the other no-fly zones around the country? Do you have a problem with those also?

 

[roymccoy]

hauntedmansionfan, we fly out of Fullerton Airport which is under the Class B airspace from Los Angeles Airport and right next to the new Disney TFR. We can now only leave Fullerton when the tower is open if we are departing to the south. (Towards Disney) The tower is open until 9pm and we usually leave at 10pm. If we are leaving after 9pm to the south, we have to fly all the way around the TFR or over the top at 3001 feet AGL. Many times, we are just hopping over to San Diego along the coast and the time that this adds on (not to mention safety concerns) makes those trips not worth it anymore.

You know how it is on the freeway when they close three lanes of a four lane highway? That's what the DL TFR has done to pilots in the basin. It's a big ole' dead zone right in the middle of the busiest airspace in the world.

Roy

 

[roymccoy]

I have a problem with anything that puts pilots at risk for really no good reason. A TFR around the World Trade Center wouldn't have stopped the terrorists on that horrible day so why would it do anthing now?

Roy

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by roymccoy
hauntedmansionfan, we fly out of Fullerton Airport which is under the Class B airspace from Los Angeles Airport and right next to the new Disney TFR. We can now only leave Fullerton when the tower is open if we are departing to the south. (Towards Disney) The tower is open until 9pm and we usually leave at 10pm. If we are leaving after 9pm to the south, we have to fly all the way around the TFR or over the top at 3001 feet AGL. Many times, we are just hopping over to San Diego along the coast and the time that this adds on (not to mention safety concerns) makes those trips not worth it anymore.

Without trying to sound rude. So because you and your wife are a little inconvenienced in your "jaunts" to San Diego that the possible safety of 10,000 others should be comprimised?

I'm still not clear on how it is putting you out of business.

 

[roymccoy]

It's not an inconvenience, it can be a matter of safety. We have enough to worry about up there then to have Disney trying to keep the banner towing companies away in the guise of security. The TFR's do nothing, absolutely nothing for your safety at the parks. Even if an airplane would bust the TFR, there is nothing to stop the airplane from doing whatever it is going to do. NOTHING.

Not to sound rude, but is your false sense of security at the parks worth it to put my wife and family at a little more risk? Some of these "jaunts" are as a member of Angel Flight, a group that we are a member of and that flies patients (in our own plane at our own expense) to San Diego area hospitals for medical treatment that isn't available here. Many of those flights leave at night and yes, the DL TFR puts those night flights at risk.

Roy

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by roymccoy
It's not an inconvenience, it can be a matter of safety. We have enough to worry about up there then to have Disney trying to keep the banner towing companies away in the guise of security.

So with the banner towing companies out of the way... wouldn't that mean less air traffic and less that you have to worry about?

But let me get back to some points that you still haven't addressed:

Should we just stop security checks all together everywhere?

What are your feelings on other no-fly zones around the country?

I still don't see how this is hurting your business.

Also, what actions have you done to put a stop to these TFR's?

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by roymccoy
Not to sound rude, but is your false sense of security at the parks worth it to put my wife and family at a little more risk?

I never said anything about my own "false" sense of security. But if it will came the fears of 10,000 people visiting a certain location then the fears of a family of 4. Then unfortunately... majority rules.