Decline in levels of service and cleanliness

[irisbud]

I think that some of the decline that is being seen around the country in general has to do with a vicious cycle of "the customer is always right". I don't think that everything that we are seeing today is attributable to this phenomenon alone, but I think that this modicum of thinking by the service sector does have somewhat of a detrimental effect on the quality of service that is ultimately received.

Anyone who has ever worked a service job knows what it is like to be abused. Though some do not let it affect them in any way, they are a rare subset. Many, over time, become worn down and tired of the constant abuse that they receive from people who feel "entitled". I think, that, after a while it leads to simply no longer caring, especially when management will not back up the menial employees. It is very demoralizing for an employee who is simply following rules in the hopes of retaining their employment to be overridden or otherwise demeaned by a manager who must ensure that the entitled customer walks away feeling that they were, as always, right.

Does this excuse poor service? No, but I think that it certainly holds a place in the overall decline. People who a re abused, demeaned, and unsupported on a constant basis, no matter how solid the reasoning of upper management will, for the most part, over time lose their will to provide great service, especially when their actions seem to make no difference at all and their paycheck barely covers the necessities.

JMO, YMMV

 

[Barbers2005]

When I posted my displeasure with the Disney CM on the resorts boards, the attitude was.. "That happens all the time. Just hang up and call another CM until they tell you what you want to hear." Instead of being angry with uniformed CMs, we're just supposed to dismiss it as normal occurance.

Personally, I think this response was realistic. It's the action most likely to get you what you're looking for. Getting angry and complaining to disney doesn't provide any tangible benefits, so most people aren't going to bother with it.

 

[G8RFAN]

What do the CM's here on the board say about the decline? Are they stretched too thin, not paid enough, not trained properly, hiring just the wrong people with the wrong attitude? Someone mentioned the airline industry and many of the darlings just 15 years ago are or were in bankruptcy or now defunct. Recently, the newest darling, Jet Blue, has been lambasted by the public for their failures in managing delays. Southwest has been pretty steady with their business model. The most interesting thing about their model is that they have a employee personality "template" that is modeled after the best employees of each position. Their goal is to hire everyone as close to this template as possible. Thier employees are also given input on new hirings. Now, is the Southwest model perfect for all types of customers? Absolutely not. Whether the street blamed 9-11, aging aircraft, fuel expenses, and/or managment/union rifts, no domestic carrier has found the perfect solution.

If I were a business grad student looking for a topic, I would study the successes and pitfalls of WDW HR in dealing with growth, organized labor, and recruitment and seeing how the Mission Statement has been influenced from the top down and from the bottom up.

When we checked into the CR this past Friday, a family was complaining that their upgraded tower room was dirty and had beer bottles, etc in it. The CM apologized and was going to get the housekeepping supervisor to see the room. The client demanded that they get a different room instead. Now, our experience was perfect, as the room was clean and in great shape. Not sure what happened to the other family. Yesterday we were sitting at one of those tables with yellow chairs across from the Plaza Ice Cream Parlor at MK. When we walked up, there were a couple of tables with melted ice cream on it, so we found one that was clean. Strike one. For the next 10 minutes, I watched 3 CM's work to cover and clean up a "bio hazard spill" from a sick child at one of the tables right outside the parlor. They were pretty quick. Plus one. Two official looking CM's were walking towards us from the "noodle station" and one stooped down to pick up a rogue napkin near DW's chair. Plus two. The Family Fun Day Parade was just wraping up and we got up to leave. Nobody had come to wipe down the two tables with melted ice cream. Strike one and a half. Otherwise, the bathrooms were all very clean over this past weekend. Whether it was because DS was wearing a "Thing 1" tank top, or he was just lucky, he got a pair of wings at the Barnstormer, a train pass from the ride from Splash to Toon Town, and a drivers license from the speedway. Pretty magical day at MK for him.

 

[KYMickey]

Personally, I think this response was realistic. It's the action most likely to get you what you're looking for. Getting angry and complaining to disney doesn't provide any tangible benefits, so most people aren't going to bother with it.

Barbers, if everybody thought a response like this was realistic then nobody would ever call and complain. If they didn't receive complaints then Disney customer service would think everything was OK and wouldn't try to do anything to correct it. If they didn't try to corrected it nothing would ever change. Not saying things would change if a couple of people complain but if a majority of the people who have a problem complain then maybe corrective actions will be taken.

Your statement does nothing but contribute to the overall attitude of acceptance of mediocrity! Service organizations will only raise their service level when complaints happen. If they don't receive complaints then they'll let service decline a little further until they start hearing complaints. This is how levels of service decline over time!

 

[Barbers2005]

Your statement does nothing but contribute to the overall attitude of acceptance of mediocrity! Service organizations will only raise their service level when complaints happen. If they don't receive complaints then they'll let service decline a little further until they start hearing complaints. This is how levels of service decline over time!

I guess I must spread mediocrity wherever I go, b/c I never waste my time making complaints unless it will directly affect the service I'm getting. To use the pp's example, I'd be concerned with booking my vacation and would want to find the most efficient way to that end, rather than teaching disney how to train employees. Plus, having worked a few years at a c/s call center I've seen firsthand that complaining to a faceless individual in a huge corporation is generally pointless. Sure, the pp got an apology. C/s reps give them out all the time b/c they're free.

This is just me, but I feel that my responsibility as a consumer is to decide whether a product is worth my money- that's it. Companies that provide consistently poor service are punished by no longer getting my business. Good service is rewarded by keeping my as a happy and loyal customer who will come back again and tell my friends.

 

[amw]

I guess I must spread mediocrity wherever I go, b/c I never waste my time making complaints unless it will directly affect the service I'm getting. To use the pp's example, I'd be concerned with booking my vacation and would want to find the most efficient way to that end, rather than teaching disney how to train employees. Plus, having worked a few years at a c/s call center I've seen firsthand that complaining to a faceless individual in a huge corporation is generally pointless. Sure, the pp got an apology. C/s reps give them out all the time b/c they're free.

I'm Canadian.. "sorry" goes a long way

Seriously, I have experience in call centres as well. Albeit, not as large as Disney. The person I spoke to wasn't a regular C/S rep. She knew the CM I had spoken to -- I had provided the date, time, and name of the individual. I did have the feeling that my experience was noted and would be followed-up. Most places do appreciate feedback.

I guess I don't accept mediocrity. I give feedback - both postitive & negative. If I receive higher than expected service in a retail environment, I definitely tell the manager. If a grocery store is filthy and food has gone bad, I let someone know. We all need reinforcement.

My point all along was that it's good to bring up issues here, but any action -- albeit small -- is better than no action. A previous poster had said Disney ignored complaints. I was just pointing out they didn't, so more people should complain directly if they are unhappy.

I didn't say my world had changed by their response. As my orignal post said, I went elsewhere and did find great service at a local agency. My e-mail also indicated that they were losing customers based on their inadequate and inconsistent telephone service. But, it took small effort by their part to respond by e-mail and follow-up directly by phone. If they were such an evil empire, would they even bother? I would have just assumed my little e-mail had been lost in the vastness known as Disney.

This is just me, but I feel that my responsibility as a consumer is to decide whether a product is worth my money- that's it. Companies that provide consistently poor service are punished by no longer getting my business. Good service is rewarded by keeping my as a happy and loyal customer who will come back again and tell my friends.

That is true. I'm not doing business with Disney direct, and I will discourage anyone from doing so. It shouldn't be up to the customer to continuously call back until they find a good CM. Instead, I would encourage my friends to go with my agent -- she has certainly benefited from Disney's gaffs. The difference is, I let Disney know.

 

[gina2000]

The decline in service and the decline in value across the boards is the result of two things: a consumer who wants cheap rather than quality and a corporation that wants higher revenues to report than it currently has. The mix has caused a decided decline and eventual demise in the US middle class and will continue to erode the quality of life for everyone. Cheap has become the consumer mantra and in order to satisfy that need, quality has become a thing of the past. The few places/people that value quality and seek to preserve it are gems. I patronize them whenever I run across them.

Forget about WDW for the time being. Slash and burn has become their mantra.

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

And that's the biggest problem with "Fandom".

Some people are more than happy to see only the best and brightest about Disney. Some even go so far as to refuse to listen to anything negative...and I have the scars to show what's happens to the barer of un-correct news & views.

But normal people aren't like fans. They look at a trip to WDW as a huge investment, one they want to get their money for. Normal people don't "feel magical" when they enter WDW for the eigth time in a year, nor to do have $90,000 to waste on DVC points.

Disney is a business - the justification we're slapped with everytime Disney cut back and the fanbois don't care. But Disney is a business. The growing public perception is that Disney is way overpriced and not as good as it used to be. That's been showing up in attendance numbers for seven years now.

The surest way to success is to give the public good value for the money. Tricks, marketing con jobs and internet fans screaching "you're negative" aren't going to make the turnstiles click.

I agree with most everything you've said in this thread, but I really thought Disney's attendence numbers have been on an up-tick since the travel doldrums right after 9-11. I know there attendance tanked right after that and stayed severely depressed for a few years, but I thought I heard that they had rebounded to the levels they achieved during the Millenium Celebration. Am I wrong?

 

[Another Voice]

The mix has caused a decided decline and eventual demise in the US middle class and will continue to erode the quality of life for everyone.

When would anyone ever call anything at WDW cheap.

This excuse probably goes back to some old guy at a market in Athens complaining about how the olive oil in "the good old days" from Persia used to be so much better, but today all anyone gets is this cheap stuff from Rome. It wasn't like people in the 1950's an 1960's were throwing out money left and right, that they were swimming in pools of cash, and that there wasn't such a thing a price pressure.

What people are looking for is value - they are not affraid to spend money if[/i] they get something in return for it. Business has always been driven to sell as little for as much as possible - today is no different than 100 years ago or two hundred years ago.

Only know Disney has flipped their core values. Disney always knew it was expensive, but they made up for it with value: you used to get an awful lot of entertainment for your $12.95 Disneyland ticket. Today's management just doesn't understand the allure their company nor do they understand how to maintain it. They just see mobs of mouth-breathing red necks forking over their seventy-five bucks to see a kiddie amusement park. That lack of respect leads to explotation.

 

[gina2000]

I think you misunderstood me. Nothing at WDW is cheap; however they have ceased to give value for the consumer's money. WDW gives the illusion of cheap through DDP and givebacks but the quality the consumer is receiving is waning. The way they have squeezed consumers is through the goods and services provided which have become substandard to the WDW experience. People will accept that because that's what they've gotten used to in the American economy. How many people rave over the DDP? Yet, it's substandard food if you are paying OOP and substandard food if you are on the DDP. But on the DDP, it's perceived as CHEAP, a bargain because people look at the menu prices and think they're getting food valued at those prices.

When I was growing up, I was always told to buy superior quality goods at a more expensive price because they provided value. Now for the most part no matter what you spend you get the same crappy value.

In other words, I agree with you.

 

[Another Voice]

How many people rave over the DDP?

The internet - and especially boards like this - have created their own echo chamber where the true "fans" can whip themselves up into a frenzy...and be safely ignored by the real world. Asking people who go to WDW four times a year if they like DDP is kinda like asking Trekkies if it's okay to dress up like a Klingon.

Normal people on the outside will have a much different opinion. While people here are gushing about all the "magic", the "value" and the "service" they perceive at WDW, normal folks see a hefty price tag for indifferent accomidations, bad food, and really long hot lines.

P.S. As far as I know, Disney has yet to announce that attendance levels have exceeded 9/11 levels, much less match the higher levels reached in 1999 & 2000. I could be wrong, but I haven't heard any trumpets being blown.

 

[amw]

P.S. As far as I know, Disney has yet to announce that attendance levels have exceeded 9/11 levels, much less match the higher levels reached in 1999 & 2000. I could be wrong, but I haven't heard any trumpets being blown.

I haven't been able to find past years' numbers -- someone else can do that research -- but here are the numbers for 2006, top amusement parks worldwide:

1.MAGIC KINGDOM at Walt Disney World 16,640,000
2.DISNEYLAND, Anaheim, Calfornia 14,730,000
3.EPCOT at Walt Disney World 10,460,000
4.DISNEY MGM STUDIOS at Walt Disney World 9,100,000
5.DISNEY'S ANIMAL KINGDOM 8,910,000
6.UNIVERSAL STUDIOS 6,000,000
7.DISNEY'S CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE 5,950,000
8.SEAWORLD FLORIDA, Orlando, Florida 5,740,000
9.ISLANDS OF ADVENTURE 5,300,000
10.UNIVERSAL STUDIOS HOLLYWOOD 4,700,000

This is from:
http://www.connectingindustry.com/pdfs/TEA-ERAAttendance06.pdf

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Has anyone noticed how many different threads there are about the decline of service,value (whatever you want to call it) at Disney. If ALL of us are seeing it.....it can't be a mirage.

I would like to post a quote from Walt when DL was still in his imagination.....

"What this country needs is an amusement park that families can take thier children to. I want to have a place that's as clean as anyting could ever be, and all the people in it are first-class citizens & treated as distinguished guests."


It sounds as though we are missing those days, aren't we?

 

[raidermatt]

I spent the day at a Six Flag's park a few weeks ago, and I realized how easy it is to think "Disney is doing just fine... it's certainly better than this."

While Walt's idea may have sparked from wanting to create something that was "better than this", he didn't use that as his standard. He established his own standards and did everything he could not to compromise them. The goal was to set the bar higher than anybody else, but then to keep raising that bar, not lower it just because others hadn't met it yet.

That's the kind of thinking the company had, and that's what is all too often missing today.

 

[CCIntrigue]

We've been visiting WDW since the 70s. Used to purchase APs. We've seen lots of changes, none of them better. It's appalling how standards have disintegrated, the Magic Kindom in particular. It's dirty, run down, badly needs some attention. Prices keep going up but services keep going down. WDW has lost sight of Walt's vision. When's the last time you were treated as a "distinguished guest" there? Now it's more like "one of the masses with a wallet."

IMHO the worst thing is the price of meals -- 2-3 times what I'd pay for a comparable meal at home. Since we are campers at Fort Wilderness we avoid that ripoff except for a couple of meals out. But I pay 2-3 times for a camp site at FW that I'd expect to pay for a comparable camping site anywhere else, and for lesser quality.

Don't get me wrong - I still love to visit WDW. The magic will always be there. But I don't like having to pay WDW's prices to share in it while not receiving the level of service I feel I've paid for.

 

[drakethib]

And that's the biggest problem with "Fandom".

Some people are more than happy to see only the best and brightest about Disney. Some even go so far as to refuse to listen to anything negative...and I have the scars to show what's happens to the barer of un-correct news & views.

But normal people aren't like fans. They look at a trip to WDW as a huge investment, one they want to get their money for. Normal people don't "feel magical" when they enter WDW for the eigth time in a year, nor to do have $90,000 to waste on DVC points.

Disney is a business - the justification we're slapped with everytime Disney cut back and the fanbois don't care. But Disney is a business. The growing public perception is that Disney is way overpriced and not as good as it used to be. That's been showing up in attendance numbers for seven years now.

The surest way to success is to give the public good value for the money. Tricks, marketing con jobs and internet fans screaching "you're negative" aren't going to make the turnstiles click.

AV, not disagree with your thoughts (in fact I think I agree with about everything you said in this thread) but how are you coming up with the attendance numbers? I may be wrong but from what I heave heard, ticket sales have been up the last few years?

 

[Another Voice]

Real attendance figures are impossible to come by. Like everyone else I go by public estimates, Disney pronouncements and the occansional tip.

WDW attendance peaked in late 1999 and early 2000 and then started a rapid fall. Remember how much park hours were cut back and how moderate went in to sudden, unannounced "refurbishments" with out any work really being down. Then 9/12 happened and everything really fell apart.

Since then, one by one all of the other destinations have reported better than 9/11 attendance - Hawai'i, Vegas, even Florida itself. Yet Disney has only been reporting single digit increases over prior years. And you're really, really down it takes a long time to climb back if you're only growing at 4% of tiny numbers. And considering how badly Disney wants to booast its stock price, Disney's failure to announce they're setting records is a clear sign they aren't.

In past major turn downs - the first Arab Oil Emabargo, the Iranian Oil Crisis, the mid-1980's recession and so on - WDW has usually bounced back within 18 to 24 months of it's lowest point. The fact that this one has already lasted the better part of a decade is a serious concern. And Disney had alwasy recovered faster than other destinations: adults can always put off Vegas but a little 5 year old girl is hard to postpone.

The reasons, in my opinion, are the ones that you quoted. It's not that people are afraid to fly (have you seen the crowds at the airport) or that WDW is a superspecial target that everyone fears - it's all the factors that started in 1999: a trip to WDW is too expensive for the price. Disney has tried to conpensate by gimicks and bleeding its most devoted customers dry, but that has limits and they are reaching them.

 

[wdw4us2]

We've been visiting WDW since the 70s. Used to purchase APs. We've seen lots of changes, none of them better. It's appalling how standards have disintegrated, the Magic Kindom in particular. It's dirty, run down, badly needs some attention. Prices keep going up but services keep going down. WDW has lost sight of Walt's vision. When's the last time you were treated as a "distinguished guest" there? Now it's more like "one of the masses with a wallet."

IMHO the worst thing is the price of meals -- 2-3 times what I'd pay for a comparable meal at home. Since we are campers at Fort Wilderness we avoid that ripoff except for a couple of meals out. But I pay 2-3 times for a camp site at FW that I'd expect to pay for a comparable camping site anywhere else, and for lesser quality.

Don't get me wrong - I still love to visit WDW. The magic will always be there. But I don't like having to pay WDW's prices to share in it while not receiving the level of service I feel I've paid for.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

We are also longtime visitors since 1972 and have made the same observations. We still have AP's (our kids are 13 & 16) but we are no longer going to pay the crazy prices for the resorts and we dine off property or at Trail's End.

I'd rather stay at Doubletree or the Hilton for less than Disney prices and earn points toward a free stay there or elsewhere.

With Disney's latest scheme for 2008 (higher prices for Friday/Saturday stays) they are pricing Florida residents right out of their resort.

I guess all these first time visitors they're enticing with packages are supposed to keep the resort going. We'll see how long that lasts.

 

[PBB]

1.MAGIC KINGDOM at Walt Disney World 16,640,000
2.DISNEYLAND, Anaheim, Calfornia 14,730,000
3.EPCOT at Walt Disney World 10,460,000
4.DISNEY MGM STUDIOS at Walt Disney World 9,100,000
5.DISNEY'S ANIMAL KINGDOM 8,910,000
6.UNIVERSAL STUDIOS 6,000,000
7.DISNEY'S CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE 5,950,000
8.SEAWORLD FLORIDA, Orlando, Florida 5,740,000
9.ISLANDS OF ADVENTURE 5,300,000
10.UNIVERSAL STUDIOS HOLLYWOOD 4,700,000

I don't believe these numbers..........using the numbers above the "Average Attendance per day" would be..........

45,589 per day at MK
28,675 per day at epcot
24,931 per day at mgm
24,410 per day at AK

Total average per day at WDW is.... 123,605 per day ??

If I recall the maximum allowed in the MK during fourth of July was 45,000. These numbers are skewered or off somewhere.......

I am not doubting the person posting these numbers.....I just doubt how the numbers were arrived at. I wonder if they are counting people who leave and come back on the same day.

 

[hopemax]

1

If I recall the maximum allowed in the MK during fourth of July was 45,000. These numbers are skewered or off somewhere.......

Or what you were told was inaccurate, or faulty memory.

I know someone who works in the MK, sometimes they are told the daily attendance, sometimes they tell me, sometimes I scribble it down on a piece of paper by the computer. Found one.

11/14/06: 23,000
11/22/06: estimated 50,000 actual 51,000
11/23/06: estimated 52,000 but they didn't get that many

4th of July would be higher.