DECISION TIME! Why I'm prob going to pass on buying into DVC

Discussion in 'Purchasing DVC' started by theguda, Apr 15, 2013.

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  1. bighoo93

    bighoo93 Mouseketeer

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    I would quibble with a few assumptions, some of which others have already mentioned. But here is why you can't make a huge mistake by not buying: you can always change your mind and buy if it makes sense for you later. If you buy without thinking it through and then change your mind, you've probably cost yourself some money. There are countless ways to enjoy WDW without being a DVC member. Enjoy them and the flexibility of not being locked in with a large upfront investment and mandatory annual fees for the next 40 years. If you change your mind later, DVC is always there waiting for you.
     
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  3. Fan of Figment

    Fan of Figment Couldn't imagine life without WDW!

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    I could have written this! I don't like not having control of my own reservation. There's nothing wrong with renting by any means, it's just not for everyone, just the same as buying DVC isn't. You just need to do what works best for you. I also know that I bought it for the duration, so we will definitely get our money's worth. :)
     
  4. a742246

    a742246 And, and, and I caught a fish this big!

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    If you are planning to go to Disney every year for the next 10 years, I can honestly say that you are making a mistake into not buying into the resale market of DVC.
    Why? Renting points for the next 10 years and not having total control is worth more then you can imagine. Maybe not in cash but in terms of sanity. After all money is only a form trading, how much is this trade worth to you ?
    Is it worth giving up control? Your sanity? Will you be happy depending on others?
    Numbers on a speadsheet are just numbers on a speadsheet. What will make you happy is all that matters. You sound like a smart person but sometimes if you over analysis things you get paralyzed by it.
    If you can afford it, my question to you is What do "you" want to do?
     
  5. disneynutz

    disneynutz DIS Veteran DIS Lifetime Sponsor

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    As owners we don't have control on what Disney does and we have to accept their decisions or sell.

    As a renter, when you find a owner that is professional you can skip Disney vacations without having to rent out a reservation like owners have to. We have had the same families rent from us for years, the arrangement works well for them and us.

    :earsboy: Bill
     
  6. PCMama

    PCMama Mouseketeer

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    Even professional renters like David's have a no cancellation policy.
     
  7. a742246

    a742246 And, and, and I caught a fish this big!

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    As owners we have control over our reservations, we can make, modify, and cancel our reservations as we please. We don't have to answer to any third party.

    As an owner (who is professional) who rents out, what would you do if one of your renters cancels out at the last minute (say 2 days before) or makes many changes thru out the reservation?

    As the poster says, they will be going to Disney each year for at least the next 10 years. If they can afford to buy a resale DVC contract, Do you believe in this situation, that buying would be the better option for them then renting?
     
  8. nabi

    nabi Home at Disney often!

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    We like to vacation someplace familiar.... repeat travels to the same location always has been our norm. However, this USED to be Mexico. With all the turmoil and trouble, now creeping across the country into Cancun also, we cannot feel safe. DVC gives us enough familiarity and variety to return long after recouping initial investment.
     
  9. disneynutz

    disneynutz DIS Veteran DIS Lifetime Sponsor

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    As owners we do have control of the reservation but that's it. My point was as owners there are many aspects of ownership that we don't control and renters never have to deal with those.

    My agreement with the renter spells out what happens with changes and cancellations and I have only had one guest who I refunded due to issues. They are on my do not rent to list.

    If ownership financially makes sense then own but ownership does take some work and the willingness to deal with the changes, rules, and policies made by Disney.

    :earsboy: Bill
     
  10. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    OP, get a better deal on your buy in and the numbers will make more sense.
     
  11. zavandor

    zavandor DIS Veteran

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    Renting is not for everyone, it's certainly not for me.
    I would not sleep for month thinking about the possibility of getting to Orlando and not having a reservation. I know that thousands of people rent and are happy, but I couldn't avoid to think to that very small possibility that my reservation can be cancelled.

    Being in control of my own reservations is the huge plus for me in ownership.
     
  12. theguda

    theguda Mouseketeer

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    $59 per point at SSR with 160 banked points isn't a very good deal already? From my research I'll be lucky to pass ROFR at that price. Any lower and my chances get worse. Would you not agree?
     
  13. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    OP, you have great arguments in this thread for both owning and renting, and you need to decide which ones resonate with you. To sum up, if you are going to make this strictly about the dollars and cents, it might be hard for you to justify ownership. However, your financial analysis is incomplete unless you find some way to quantify the benefits and satisfaction of ownership and factor that into the equation.
     
  14. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    Actually, I would not agree. It's a good deal in this market. But it's clearly not good enough to make your numbers work and it pales in comparison to the best deals that can be found with a little bit (a lot) of work. As far as passing ROFR or not, I don't make deals based on the speculation of passing. Others do and that's their prerogative, but it usually ends up costing more. Given that cost is your number one motivator, that doesn't seem prudent.
     
  15. Minniesgal

    Minniesgal DIS Veteran

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    I think a little bit of the problem is you are approachnig this as you would the purchase of say a dishwasher (can't think of a more expensive example). a dishwasher is a necessity, not a fun purchase so you shop around find a deal, look for a better deal and buy what is most cost effective.

    DVC is essentially an investment in a holiday, it is not an essential item. While it has to be affordable that is not the same as buying the cheapest contract available. As long as you pay a good price per point for your purchase and have the disposable cash ready to pay for it so you are not borrowing or taking from rainy day money then you need to take cost effectiveness off the table. You need to decide what you want to buy, once you know that go after it looking for the best price possible for that which you have chosen. Do not chose what to buy based on the price or you risk spending a lot of money and regretting it.
     
  16. Brian Noble

    Brian Noble His Curmudgeonly Highness

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    Not if you have teenagers. ;)

    OP: I think the basic bones of your analysis is just about right. You can quibble with the assumptions, but the method is IMO sound. The correct comparison really is "rent from an owner or buy resale", and every time I look at it, the two are closer to one another than most people assume. You can fudge the assumptions either way to make one or the other "the winner", but ultimately the question is: Do I want to come to WDW indefinitely, or don't I? If you do, then owning is a fine way to manage the lodging costs for doing so. If you don't, or you are not sure, it is wise to rent.

    True, the balance could tip down the road in favor of one or the other. If it tips in favor of owning, you can buy then.
     
  17. sweetdana

    sweetdana DIS Veteran

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    So I want to add .2 cents in here:

    I agree with most of this. ***and have a mix opinion.

    Due to the risk of renting points, and cancellations/ect a # of other things.

    I think the better option is transferring points, not renting. meaning you must be an owner ( of a small contract)

    Same price/cheaper then renting.. but you control the ressie, and if say 1 in 10 vacations has to move a day cause of flight prices, or a sick kid, or relative passes, or you now have a wedding you didn't have to go to 6 months ago.. change in plans happen. Renting you are pretty much stuck with what you have without an individual ( which poses own risks there.)

    I think a GREAT alternative is purchasing a small contract, 25/50 75 points, and transferring in points every yr ( or when you want).

    It gives you all of benefits of renting as listed, and MUCH less to nearly no risk. Once the points are transferred in .. they are yours.. to cancel/change/ect. (even better you can change resort and points to yrly plans, and bank if need be... no borrowing..)

    I bought a contract thinking it was all I would need :rotfl2: 160 ssr points.. and (* so far) will not be buying more, due to doing this.. AND LOOOOOOOOOOOVE transferring them in. at 10$ ish a point, and sometimes cheaper by buying more/next yrs points.. it is perfect!
     
  18. montrealdisneylovers

    montrealdisneylovers Mouseketeer

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    Finding someone to transfer the points to you can be difficult especially if you want to do it every year!!
     
  19. PCMama

    PCMama Mouseketeer

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    If you rent points from other than your home resort, do you get 11 month booking at the other resort. For example if you own at ssr then rent at blt do you get 11 month booking at blt with those points?
     
  20. theguda

    theguda Mouseketeer

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    I really don't understand the "happiness/satisfaction" factor of owning DVC as some sort of benefit. What does owning DVC give you that renting doesn't? First off let me qualify that I DO feel a certain draw to owning DVC. There IS a tangible level of happiness that I get by thinking about being an owner. But when I look at the #'s it just seems like a bad financial move and I can't allow a fuzzy feeling to lead me into a bad decision.

    So my question is this....why does owning DVC make you "happier" than just renting points. Here are some reasons I've been given by DVC owners:

    1) Able to check room availability on your own. Yes, I do see this as a benefit but honestly, it's not a big one. I quickly found a reliable DVC owner to rent points from. I easily found her on Disboards. She checks availability for me and does it quickly. I've read countless other examples on disboards like this as well. So really...is being able to check rooms yourself THAT big of a deal when someone else can easily check for you?

    2) Able to book 11 months at home resort. Yes, that's a big benefit but you can do the same thing by renting points from a person who has a home resort you're interested in visiting. I've already spoken to a confimed legitimate private seller whos home resort is BWV. I'm going to rent points from him this fall for my vacation next October. I didn't need to be a DVC member to book 11 months out.

    3) Guaranteed to vacation at Disney. I've never owned DVC and I've been able to book every WDW vacation I've ever wanted...exactly how I wanted it. This year I'm renting points for the first time and got what I wanted. Being a DVC member won't give me the hotel or setup I want. I can get it by renting

    4) Annual Pass. I've often heard people say if you go to WDW at least once a year then buying DVC is worth it. I assume part of the reason for this argument is having the ability to save on park passes by utilizing the AP, which costs a family of 4 about $1600. But let's say you only go to WDW one time per year. You can get 5 day hoppers for less than $1600. So the AP isn't a discount unless you go more than once.

    5) Long term savings. Now this is the ONE benefit I can get behind, but I suspect a lot of people have themselves talked into savings that they really aren't going to see. I absolutely know if I go to WDW twice a year for the next 30 years...owning will save me $. But for me, and probably a lot of others even if they don't want to admit it...I won't go to WDW enough over the next 30 years to realize that savings. My vaction this year is gonna cost me about $3000. If I owned DVC and went twice it would cost me about $4800. So yes I'd "save" $1200 but I'm also spending $1800 more than I normally do because I'm taking 2 vacations instead of 1. If a person would take 2 trips a year regarless of owning or not...and they go twice a year for decades...yes, it will save them. That's not me though...and I bet it's not a lot of people who own DVC. $

    Is there something I'm missing? Another benefit you get by owning DVC vs renting? If these are the majority of the benefits...they're not really benefits because you can get them without owning. After looking at the #'s for the past week I don't see any major benefit that I can get by owning...but I do see the large up front cost of owning as a major negative. It will take me 14 years to essentially "get my money back" by owning DVC. Given the fact that renting will give me almost everything an owner can get....I see renting periodically at a higher point cost as a much better financial decision than paying the large up front cost to own. If I were 25 years old and planned to go twice a year forever...then I'd own. But I'm 40 and go once a year and occasionaly twice. For someone like me it's a bad financial move and one I can avoid by renting and still enjoying almost all the benefits of owning.
     
  21. theguda

    theguda Mouseketeer

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    At first glance this does seem very interesting. If you transfer points from another resort like BC....can you book BC at the 11 months window with those transferred points?
     
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