Could FP+ Ruin my experience?

[epcotty]

The real question here is, why does Disney want incredibly long standby lines for major attractions to return (much worse than with regular fastpass)? This will happen if every fastpass+ is booked. Still many others will not use it and suffer throughout the day. I think they truly don't care and don't care about losing business from Florida residents and any others who can't plan that far in advance. I don't want extremely long lines and am not able to plan 2 months in advance (especially coordinating with family), I should not be forced to wait forever in line all day. Many others are similar to me. I have a few days left on my ticket; if I have an awful time of things (I will not wait a long long time in line for any attraction- if I see a long wait time I'd go to something else and try again later) I will not buy another ticket unless they seriously revise the system so that it would be actually fair like regular fastpass. They just don't care about being fair anymore, it's all about maximizing profits, like they weren't high enough already

 

[CarolynU]

As an off-site guest who does not typically buy tickets in advance (we have a friend who is a CM and she sometimes has CM comp park tickets for us to use, but not always), we will be in a situation of waiting to see what is available when we arrive for our trip.

I completely realize that we are blessed to have a friend who is a CM and we can benefit from the perks she has, but it makes things like FP+ virtually impossible for us.

We will be there in early November and I'm kind of petrified about how the planning/implementation will affect us this year and in the years to come.

CM's have just been told that they are tightening up on how their maingate pass works to get friends into the parks. They were always expected to stay with their friends who had been maingated, but it wasn't enforced. Now it will be. CM's will have to remain with whoever they have maingated and the pass returned to the CM once used at the end of the visit. Or something like that. That means that your friend can no longer get you into the park and then leave you to have fun.

 

[UNCFanatik]

That's what I figured -- one reason why the opinions of the test group is not that relevant to how this might work in real life.

Their opinions are relevant to issues with the booking process as a whole even though they weren't able to plan 60 days in advance. People had issues with various aspects of reserving, switching, and replanning their FP+s. These issues will be faced in real life so the feedback on different aspects of the overall system is very valuable to Disney to help them address different issues discovered in this round of testing before it gets released in "real life"

Again, there are many moving pieces to the FP+ system.

 

[UNCFanatik]

The real question here is, why does Disney want incredibly long standby lines for major attractions to return (much worse than with regular fastpass)? This will happen if every fastpass+ is booked. Still many others will not use it and suffer throughout the day. I think they truly don't care and don't care about losing business from Florida residents and any others who can't plan that far in advance. I don't want extremely long lines and am not able to plan 2 months in advance (especially coordinating with family), I should not be forced to wait forever in line all day. Many others are similar to me. I have a few days left on my ticket; if I have an awful time of things (I will not wait a long long time in line for any attraction- if I see a long wait time I'd go to something else and try again later) I will not buy another ticket unless they seriously revise the system so that it would be actually fair like regular fastpass. They just don't care about being fair anymore, it's all about maximizing profits, like they weren't high enough already

Just remember that "fair" is a matter of perspective. I am sure that you will find those that think the previous FP- system was not "fair". There is no objective standard in play here.

 

[epcotty]

At least the old fastpass was a lot more of an even system and was a lot easier to make fair for yourself- a lot of people's problems with it could've been easily solved by getting to the park earlier, etc. With this it's probably totally impossible for a lot of people (ones who can't plan everything 2 months in advance) to make the system fair for themselves, so they have to face impossibly long lines or go to other attractions if there's no fp+s available on the day

 

[Rip]

OK, while I am not in "love" with the FP+ system, I will attempt to tell you what I think were some problems with the previous FP system, a.k.a FP-:

1. As you mentioned, and it is a big deal for some, FPs would run out for certain attractions if a person was not in that park by a certain time at certain times of the year.

And FP+ solves this not at all. In fact, it exacerbates it because it further reduces the number of available FPs to those not "in the know" - and given the fact that FP- has been place for years, and still many visitors don't know how it works, even fewer will know they should figure out if they want to do Space Mountain at 10:42 am 2 months from now......

2. It created an unnecessary secondary distribution channel for FPs that would cause a shortage for other users. People would pull FPs expressly for the purpose of giving to others. These people would be the ones who would to decide who would get an FP for certain rides where FPs were gone instead of the guest having a chance to pull their own FP.

And now people will pull FPs "just in case", particularly locals and specifically AP holders. Again, FP+ does not one thing to alleviate it, and in some scenarios makes the probability worse.

3. Paper tickets are a consumable which cost Disney money and from a "green" standpoint was not desirable.

Straw man, FP- could have gone paperless with no other changes.

4. It created crowd management issues

How? By forcing people to go to designated spots to get them? Again, that could have been dealt with easily without going to this new system.

5. It created supply issues with people pulling FPs that they "might" use at attractions where FPs would run out.

See above.

6. Lastly, and probably most importantly from Disney's standpoint was that the FP- system was not producing the outcomes that they desired.

This is at least true in theory, though it could very well turn out that the new system produces even less desired outcomes.

The FP- system was not without its issues. I didnt even mention pre-enforcement days which also created its own set of problems because those days are over but it does illustrate that there have been some problems with the FP- system over the course of time

There are no "pre-enforcement" days. There was a time when the policy was one thing, and then Disney specifically and publicly changed it's policy because of the implementation of FP+.

You are correct in that no system is perfect, and hence has its problems, but Disney is betting over a billion overall that this will be better for guests (and if it isn't better for guests, it isn't better for Disney, so yeah I know they think it will be better for their profit margin but that still hinges on guests). I'm unconvinced.

 

[Rip]

How is it misleading? There will be same day FP+s available. I never implied that there would be same day FP+s available for every attraction nor did I guarantee it. That is why I said it depends on what attractions were pre-booked ahead of time. It will be interesting to see how many people do prebook right at 60 days

And I have said in the past that I agree, this will be a negative for some people. Just as it will be a positive for others.

It's misleading in at least 2 ways. First, you state it as absolute fact when in truth it is nothing more than a very good (and likely true) guess. They will not hold back any available spots, so it is possible that you are entirely incorrect on any given day.

Second, and most importantly, you're only addressing the rides that nobody really cares about riding, so why would anyone care about getting a FP+ for them in the first place?

 

[StuckInKS]

Especially given the amount of people that currently make last minute trips to Disney or trips with less than 60 days out.

This is us, which is another reason why FP+ concerns me. ALSO, is this 60-days out thing going to apply just to people who have made reservations or bought tickets through Disney? If not, then how do we know that a family who has offsite rooms and buys their tickets through a reseller will actually show up. They could make their FP+ selections, keeping others from taking those spots, and then not even go on vacation. This exact problem is why they started adding a no-show fee for the more popular restaurants.

 

[dabootie]

Playing devils advocate here...

Surely the whole point of the new system is to make FP's available to a wider group of guests? I know locals who want to make spontaneous visits feel alienated but as an international visitor last year I felt like I had no option other than to stand in long SB lines. My hotel shuttle never got us to HS in time for RD so I never really stood a chance of getting FP'S for TSMM...

Feel that possibly Disney were hoping that the new system would also encourage people to A. Focus less on purely riding the headliners and B. relax and tour the parks a little more...taking more in and distributing crowds a little more.

Something I haven't seen discussed anywhere is what the perceived impact of the new system will be on the large South American tour groups when they visit the parks?

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

I wonder if the last minute trips problem will be solved by Disney offering a deal whereby you book tickets and a resort and DDP for example with some FP+ selections already preloaded for certain times on certain days. For example Monday I already have a default slot for SM if I want one at 9:00 am. They could do this at low season as an incentive. Ok they might not be exactly what I want but at least there is a window there. Also I heard GAC is changing I wonder if this is being tied into magicband somehow.

 

[Nixie]

I believe that FP+ will do away with GAC completely in the sense that if you were getting a GAC because you couldn't wait in heat, lines, have anxiety issues with crowds, etc. you will now not need one because you have an FP+.(Donning my flame suit) People with mobility issues, like those in EVCs, for the most part at WDW have never needed a GAC. There EVC is their GAC. Before I get jumped on for that, I have actually been there and done that. I used an EVC for my whole trip last Dec when I visited WDW 8 weeks after I had ACL reconstruction. I never got a GAC and never needed one. Each time I came to an attraction that needed some sort of alternative enterance for my EVC, I was ushered through that enterance right away. I am wondering if Disney will make a list of special accomodations clickable when you book your FP+, kinda like when you make ADRs and have allergies. For example, my child has mobility issues, but does not use an EVC. She has balance issues due to cerebral palsy and needs the rides with the conveyor belt loading areas slowed or even stopped. (Think HM). Would there be something clickable that I could add to her MB that would say "balance issues" and the FP+ reader would know (and the CM working it) when she passed through? Truly this is the ONLY thing that could be a good thing with FP+. The only thing is then what do you do with rides that you don't have FP+ for.

 

[bcrook]

Playing devils advocate here...

Surely the whole point of the new system is to make FP's available to a wider group of guests? I know locals who want to make spontaneous visits feel alienated but as an international visitor last year I felt like I had no option other than to stand in long SB lines. My hotel shuttle never got us to HS in time for RD so I never really stood a chance of getting FP'S for TSMM...

Feel that possibly Disney were hoping that the new system would also encourage people to A. Focus less on purely riding the headliners and B. relax and tour the parks a little more...taking more in and distributing crowds a little more.

Something I haven't seen discussed anywhere is what the perceived impact of the new system will be on the large South American tour groups when they visit the parks?

De-emphasizing the headliner rides and highlighting the other attractions in the parks is definitely part of the plan. Take a look at the MDE app. They have done a wonderful job marketing every attraction in the parks. When I browse the wait times, I see "long wait" for Soarin' but then I see a list of attractions with no waiting. Even as a veteran traveler to wdw, I find myself intrigued.

But, this re marketing will only work once. After people excitedly trudge over to the Seas to find Bruce's Shark World with Mr Ray or the Stave Church which has no waiting in Norway, people will realize the difference between the level of attractions.

As for the big tour groups or anybody booking through a travel agent staying off site or on, fastpasses will be booked in advance. Even if it is just the quick picks. This will be a great marketing tool and perk for travel agents. If this goes live by October for my trip, I am going to have to pay somebody to line up my account and ten other traveling friends to sync our advanced ride reservations. I don't have the patience for MDE and all the clunkiness.

 

[mom2rtk]

Playing devils advocate here...

Surely the whole point of the new system is to make FP's available to a wider group of guests? I know locals who want to make spontaneous visits feel alienated but as an international visitor last year I felt like I had no option other than to stand in long SB lines. My hotel shuttle never got us to HS in time for RD so I never really stood a chance of getting FP'S for TSMM...

Feel that possibly Disney were hoping that the new system would also encourage people to A. Focus less on purely riding the headliners and B. relax and tour the parks a little more...taking more in and distributing crowds a little more.

Something I haven't seen discussed anywhere is what the perceived impact of the new system will be on the large South American tour groups when they visit the parks?

Of course one of the goals is to focus less on the headliners. Headliners are expensive. Ride rationing is cheap. (Sort of).

And honestly, what time did your tour bus get to DHS? Unless you were there Christmas or spring break week, it was still quite possible to get a FP for TSMM.

I wonder if the last minute trips problem will be solved by Disney offering a deal whereby you book tickets and a resort and DDP for example with some FP+ selections already preloaded for certain times on certain days. For example Monday I already have a default slot for SM if I want one at 9:00 am. They could do this at low season as an incentive. Ok they might not be exactly what I want but at least there is a window there. Also I heard GAC is changing I wonder if this is being tied into magicband somehow.

But really....... nobody needs a FP for SM at 9 AM. So what's the point?

Or maybe one of the new "unintended consequences" of FP+ is that you will indeed need a FP for SM at 9 AM. Lovely thought, huh? Or maybe it was indeed intended.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

Of course one of the goals is to focus less on the headliners. Headliners are expensive. Ride rationing is cheap. (Sort of).

And honestly, what time did your tour bus get to DHS? Unless you were there Christmas or spring break week, it was still quite possible to get a FP for TSMM.

But really....... nobody needs a FP for SM at 9 AM. So what's the point?

True. I am clutching at straws lol.

 

[DisMom1981]

De-emphasizing the headliner rides and highlighting the other attractions in the parks is definitely part of the plan. Take a look at the MDE app. They have done a wonderful job marketing every attraction in the parks. When I browse the wait times, I see "long wait" for Soarin' but then I see a list of attractions with no waiting. Even as a veteran traveler to wdw, I find myself intrigued.

But, this re marketing will only work once. After people excitedly trudge over to the Seas to find Bruce's Shark World with Mr Ray or the Stave Church which has no waiting in Norway, people will realize the difference between the level of attractions.

As for the big tour groups or anybody booking through a travel agent staying off site or on, fastpasses will be booked in advance. Even if it is just the quick picks. This will be a great marketing tool and perk for travel agents. If this goes live by October for my trip, I am going to have to pay somebody to line up my account and ten other traveling friends to sync our advanced ride reservations. I don't have the patience for MDE and all the clunkiness.

Disney IT will link and set you all up ahead of time if you give them a call.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

One other thing and I am not looking for negatives honestly I adore my disney vacations. Live for them. Just want to continue to enjoy them. We buy an Annual pass every other year ( we configure our vacations to get two trips out of it by timing them accordingly ) which is purchased through DVC member services over the phone when we book our accommodation at 11 months prior to coming. The pass is not activated till we get there on the year we purchase it. DW said to me last night so what happens there then and I suddenly thought oh....no 60 day window .....gulp .....we will be ok one year like this September if the system was live because we have a live pass but next year we won't because it was activated last October so we will be buying a new one activating it on arrival.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

This is us, which is another reason why FP+ concerns me. ALSO, is this 60-days out thing going to apply just to people who have made reservations or bought tickets through Disney? If not, then how do we know that a family who has offsite rooms and buys their tickets through a reseller will actually show up. They could make their FP+ selections, keeping others from taking those spots, and then not even go on vacation. This exact problem is why they started adding a no-show fee for the more popular restaurants.

This was not a problem with the current system. You had to be IN the park to pull that FP. Now anyone with a ticket will be able to sit home and book FP+s that may not be used while sitting in their pajama 60 days out. While the family that plans a last minute day trip and WILL be in the park will be unable to pull those FP+s. Sounds great and completely fair right??

 

[mom2rtk]

OMG!!! YOU just blew my mind. I seriously had an AT&T commercial moment where the kids discuss infinity x infinity.

LOL.

I've been considering this for a while. And since my daughter has started expressing more interest in Universal, I'm thinking Disney's rollout of FP+ and their desire for us to focus less on their headliners, is nudging me to take a closer look. And once I look, Disney could lose most of the dollars they were getting from me previously.

We haven't stepped foot in Universal since 2004. We stayed onsite and had express pass for 2 days. It was so wonderful I vowed never to visit the parks again without it! Staying onsite at Disney was too appealing. Emphasis on WAS. I keep hoping FP+ will work out better than I think it will. I still hope that, but I still have found no reason to think it will.

I do think once FP+ rolls out, it will seem fine at first. I still believe Disney will allow same day FPs, but it will require you to use one or all of your pre-scheduled FPs before adding others. (mostly guess on my part). So until it reaches critical mass with more people understanding the system, it will be fine. But slowly more AP holders will start to tie up spots. And more people will start to figure out how it works. And eventually word will get around that you need to do it (just like ADRs). Couple that with the rollout of 7DMT and the demand that will have, and the balance will tip to where you just have to book ahead, and there will be less and less same day FPs left.

We're doing DLR this year, so won't likely get back to Orlando (notice I didn't say Disney, because it's likely we'll no longer be Disney exclusive?) until late 2014, so who knows how it will be by then. It all certainly seems to be on the fast track right now, so it could likely be 1 year post full roll-out when we get there.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

This is us, which is another reason why FP+ concerns me. ALSO, is this 60-days out thing going to apply just to people who have made reservations or bought tickets through Disney? If not, then how do we know that a family who has offsite rooms and buys their tickets through a reseller will actually show up. They could make their FP+ selections, keeping others from taking those spots, and then not even go on vacation. This exact problem is why they started adding a no-show fee for the more popular restaurants.

This was not a problem with the current system. You had to be IN the park to pull that FP. Now anyone with a ticket will be able to sit home and book FP+s that may not be used while sitting in their pajama 60 days out. While the family that plans a last minute day trip and WILL be in the park will be unable to pull those FP+s. Sounds great and completely fair right??

Another point! Our family does stay off-site and we always buy NE 10 tickets but only visit the parks 3 days each trip. BUT I can plan FP+ for 10 days (Disney may limit me to 7) with my ticket even though I only plan on using 3 of those days. Just in case our plans change. I won't plan 10 days worth but I WILL pre-book 6 or 7 days worth of FP+s so we will have some flexible.

 

[UNCFanatik]

And FP+ solves this not at all. In fact, it exacerbates it because it further reduces the number of available FPs to those not "in the know" - and given the fact that FP- has been place for years, and still many visitors don't know how it works, even fewer will know they should figure out if they want to do Space Mountain at 10:42 am 2 months from now......

It is interesting in another post that you challenge me on my speculation and now you are speculating about future FP+ reservation bookings. And if it turns out the way you are guessing then it will be a good thing and it will create more FP+ same day FP+ availability and there will not be the projected rush by some of people getting up 6am-7am to make FP+ ressies

And now people will pull FPs "just in case", particularly locals and specifically AP holders. Again, FP+ does not one thing to alleviate it, and in some scenarios makes the probability worse.

There is a "rumor" that AP holders will not be able to make unlimited FP+ reservations. Also, as I have stated before, AP holders are not a monolithic group. They all do not have the same touring style or reasons for coming to the park. And yes, FP+ does alleviate it. It prevents people in the park from pulling excessive FPs because there will be a cap to the amount they can pull.

Straw man, FP- could have gone paperless with no other changes.

Not a straw man at all. Look at the original question that was asked. "What was wrong with the previous FP system?". Yes, Disney could have gone paperless before now but the fact remains that the system used a lot of consumables. It was a problem that could easily be addressed with use of technology.

How? By forcing people to go to designated spots to get them? Again, that could have been dealt with easily without going to this new system.

It created crowd issues especially in DHS where everyone would rush over to TSMM to ride and/or pull FPs. This was especially seen in the days where they would hold everyone right outside the hat. By your constant admitting they could have fixed some issues without going to the FP+ system is a de facto admittance that there were problems with the previous system

This is at least true in theory, though it could very well turn out that the new system produces even less desired outcomes.

It very well could. And it could also produce outcomes that may surprise and please the general public. This is why there is much speculation about all of this. Everyone has their own theories of what will happen.

There are no "pre-enforcement" days. There was a time when the policy was one thing, and then Disney specifically and publicly changed it's policy because of the implementation of FP+.

OK, so not to drag up an area where we do not see eye to eye. We can both agree there was a time where Disney allowed people to use FPs past the window stated on the FP. That is the time period i was referring to.

You are correct in that no system is perfect, and hence has its problems, but Disney is betting over a billion overall that this will be better for guests (and if it isn't better for guests, it isn't better for Disney, so yeah I know they think it will be better for their profit margin but that still hinges on guests). I'm unconvinced.

Serious question, how would Disney design a system that would be better for ALL their guests? What about the guests that were unhappy with the previous FP system? Was that good for Disney?

And the money isnt all being spent just on the FP+ system. It is money for the entire MM program.