Came across this article from an average guest

[NMAmy]

I've been on the DIS for a very long time and still consider myself to be an "average guest." Reading the DIS doesn't make me superior in any way to other tourists.

I totally agree with the article posted and the issues it mentioned have changed us from being annual visitors for 14 years to moving on to other vacations. I've got two new grandbabies this year and, when they're old enough to go, I'm thinking Disneyland instead of WDW.

I do enjoy a certain amount of planning but a WDW trip now seems more akin to a full scale military operation and I don't enjoy that at all and will vote with my money, as have many other long-time posters and WDW visitors on these boards. Between the lack of attractions, FP+ issues, and surly CM's, I get a better return on my vacation money in other locations.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

There has been nothing at WDW since the dawn of the web that has generated as much persistent and consistent negative discussion as FP+.

Disney has done things that were far worse, but I agree that social media has changed the way that we discuss those things. Imagine if Disney were to go back to the E-Ticket days and limit the number of times that you could ride your favorite attraction unless you were willing to pay more? The world was a different place back then. Social media has changed us.

 

[dkrauss]

I've been on the DIS for a very long time and still consider myself to be an "average guest." Reading the DIS doesn't make me superior in any way to other tourists.

I totally agree with the article posted and the issues it mentioned have changed us from being annual visitors for 14 years to moving on to other vacations. I've got two new grandbabies this year and, when they're old enough to go, I'm thinking Disneyland instead of WDW.

I do enjoy a certain amount of planning but a WDW trip now seems more akin to a full scale military operation and I don't enjoy that at all and will vote with my money, as have many other long-time posters and WDW visitors on these boards. Between the lack of attractions, FP+ issues, and surly CM's, I get a better return on my vacation money in other locations.

I so respect the post above! NMAmy has made a choice which works for her............no moaning no groaning..........just action.........bravo!

We all have different ideas about this......but if you don't like how things are at WDW you always have the ability to "vote" with your wallet! What's the old saying.........."Actions speak louder than words!"

Doug

 

[kathy884]

I think the author of the article makes some very good points. What the heck is Disney thinking? Attendance and prices are up, though, so looks like this isn't hurting them. And I'm sure they like having more people commit in advance to meals and park days.

I've hated it that for year you've have to at popular times make ADRs so far in advance. My way to deal with this is that I stopped doing Disney table service or just planned maybe one table service meal for a week and made that call 180 days in advance for a party of 10.

I personally think it's insane to reserve rides 60 or 30 days before the ride. It's just a ride or attraction for goodness sakes. And I've been on the majority of these in the majority of the parks before - come on they aren't all that great // The parks on the whole are a nice experience, but there is very little IMHO that is all that great individually and not to be missed and deserves all that advance planning. Well, if we were to go to Animal Kingdom I would have to do the safari and see Festival of the Lion King. But I don't have to worry about that because we don't usually even make it over to that park. // If I had tickets in advance, though, I'd do some FP+ things as a line mitigation strategy.

An even bigger problem for us for taking advantage of FP+ is that we only like to do a day or two at Disney on a week long trip, so don't buy tickets in advance (don't want to commit to going financially till we are sure we are going). We have a party of about 10 and typically have 2-3 who think they are going to go, but at the last minute decide to skip going and do something else for the day instead (but OMG that's about $300). That means we'll still just get our tickets at the gate and check day of if there are any left over FP + passes of interest. There is still rope drop as a line mitigation strategy. And there is still (if it works for you), going at a less busy time. We're usually tied to the school schedule, though, so so much for that. // DH and I are staying home, but our son who is 20 and some of my extended family are going over Thanksgiving. I, for the reasons above, doubt they'll buy tickets in advance meaning no FP + options till day of. They will be doing rope drop at least. It will be interesting to hear what they think. Most will be there the week before Thanksgiving, so crowds might not be that bad for most of the days. DS though only has time off of school starting Wednesday and will be there just at the very busy time.

 

[maxiesmom]

Unfortunately I have to agree with the article. There is so much planning that people going for the first time in forever are at a disadvantage. I have been to Disney many times and don't particularly care for all of the planning so far in advance. Yes, its nice to know that I can go on 7DMT without waiting in line for a long time, but I have to keep looking at my watch to make sure that I get there within the FP+ time frame. The same can be said for my ADR's most of which are in Epcot. So not only planning what park on what day but where I want to eat and what rides I want to go on in what park. I remember taking the kids when they were younger back in the '90's there was always a character pretty much around every corner. Looking for them was exciting for the kids. I also remember standing in long lines (60-90 min) for a ride before fast pass. So in this day and age of technology I guess you have to conform or be left behind.

While you remember the free roaming characters as exciting, I remember them as a pain in the rear. They only roamed until they were swamped by guests. And then, there was no line or order to who got to get a pic or autograph with that character. You had to shove your kid forward and hope you beat out all of the other parents shoving their kids forward. To me it was chaos, not magic.

 

[ChimCher-ee]

The article is a convincing one, and I found myself agreeing in principle. I can definitely see Disney through his eyes.

However, does that oasis the author is looking for exist anywhere? Can anyone simply show up for their vacation and have things work out smoothly? I can't help myself; I have to research everything I do. And I put in as much research as the particular vacation requires. I'm the only one in my family who enjoys it, though, so no one else pays it much mind. When we finally reach our destination, it feels spontaneous to the others on the trip. There are lots of ways to watch a clock, not all of them have to be stressful.

 

[Grumpy92]

I totally agree with him. As a local is it is very tough for us to go to WDW anymore. Most of the time we dont plan a WDW trip more then 3 months in advance. By that time most of the popular FPs are gone and you have to have FP+ passes now. As a long time AP holder and past cm we dont do the warrior trip to cover everything. We want to try the new stuff and visit old faves. Sometimes just go in for dinner and fireworks. We always had a few ADRs and hotel reservations that was the extent of my planning.

For all this planning and money we now get filthy bathrooms, rude and unknowlegeabe cms and often find ourselves eating off property. If you have not had this experience I am thrilled for you. But unfortunatley for us we have had it occur on several occassions.

Last year we went to US and stayed at one of there resorts. The family wanted to go so I went with them with low expectations. When I worked for WDW we used say "You can work for the best or work for Universal". They definitely did not do it the customer service focused way. Boy was I surprised, no reservations required for rides and dining, a beautiful hotel that gave us more bang for our buck compared to WDW. It was actually relaxing to go to Orlando. The TMs were so nice and helpful and every bathroom was clean, even the HP ones. Now I have changed by tune and several family members said they would rather have US APs then Disney ones and dropped them.

There is so much planning even for the shortest trip that it is no longer a break or a vacation for us. For now US is our main Orlando destination and we may pop over the WDW for a few hours.

 

[nobellybutton]

While you remember the free roaming characters as exciting, I remember them as a pain in the rear. They only roamed until they were swamped by guests. And then, there was no line or order to who got to get a pic or autograph with that character. You had to shove your kid forward and hope you beat out all of the other parents shoving their kids forward. To me it was chaos, not magic.

I agree I remember Disney in the 80's and when the characters were seen it was a stampede. After a few moments and being elbowed by adults & kids trying to rush them, they were quickly ushered off. And in HOT HUMID Florida summer you were lucky if costumed characters were out for 10minutes at a time.
Fast forward 25years I bring my DD on her 1st trip. I researched and learned I can make ADR's, appointments @bbb, get discounted park tickets through Disney Youth Series, FP+, and Fantasmic pkgs and Dessert parties.
I was grateful to be able to SELECT what I felt was important to MY family. It's like any other high priced vacation, like traveling to Europe and wanting to see historic or important places, you Would PLAN that so as NOT to miss it because it's IMPORTANT to you. Same with Disney, for my DD's 1st trip FP+ wasn't a make or break so I made ADR's for Akershus which has the princess' and Fantasmic so we had a great spot. The other FP+ got them same day in the park. And I didn't spoil the trip because we couldn't get a CRT ADR. We were just thrilled to waltz right into CP with no waiting time and it was her birthday and they gave her a cupcake and the characters walked over to celebrate with her. Thant was enough for us.
It's all about what your expectations are for the trip. If you want to JAM PACK everything and get everything done and see, and experienced than Disney technology has made it avail at your fingertips. If not cruise the park, ride what you want see what you want eat when you can (no ADR) and just Enjoy.. It's vacation.

 

[maxiesmom]

I totally agree with him. As a local is it is very tough for us to go to WDW anymore. Most of the time we dont plan a WDW trip more then 3 months in advance. By that time most of the popular FPs are gone and you have to have FP+ passes now. As a long time AP holder and past cm we dont do the warrior trip to cover everything. We want to try the new stuff and visit old faves. Sometimes just go in for dinner and fireworks. We always had a few ADRs and hotel reservations that was the extent of my planning.

For all this planning and money we now get filthy bathrooms, rude and unknowlegeabe cms and often find ourselves eating off property. If you have not had this experience I am thrilled for you. But unfortunatley for us we have had it occur on several occassions.

I don't agree to the extent that it is almost as if we are visiting different parks. I am still able to ride popular rides like Soarin, Test Track, Space Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain, all without FPs and without what I consider to be long waits. 40 minutes is as long as I will go, and most times lines are not that long. But then I am also a rope drop-er, and am not afraid of using the single rider line where it is offered. I've also not experienced filthy bathrooms, and after all of the complaints did pay attention during my trip in May.

 

[Angel Ariel]

However, does that oasis the author is looking for exist anywhere? Can anyone simply show up for their vacation and have things work out smoothly?

We traveled a decent amount this summer to various places across the US. For each trip, the only preplanning involved was transportation to the destination, and accommodations during the stay. Each trip was very enjoyable, and yes, went very smoothly.

 

[Jennasis]

Disney has done things that were far worse, but I agree that social media has changed the way that we discuss those things. Imagine if Disney were to go back to the E-Ticket days and limit the number of times that you could ride your favorite attraction unless you were willing to pay more? The world was a different place back then. Social media has changed us.

Pretty sure that's why he said "SINCE THE DAWN OF THE WEB".

While you remember the free roaming characters as exciting, I remember them as a pain in the rear. They only roamed until they were swamped by guests. And then, there was no line or order to who got to get a pic or autograph with that character. You had to shove your kid forward and hope you beat out all of the other parents shoving their kids forward. To me it was chaos, not magic.

Why does it it have to be either or? Why can't there be both free roaming and a few meet and greet locations?

 

[Sir William]

Why are y'all making this out to be so complicated? Seriously.

You don't need a room request. The only time you ever need a room request is if there is something specific you want. You don't have specific wants until you've been a couple times. Like, we loved the first room we got, so we requested it on future trips. Simple. If you stay in any hotel anywhere, do you feel obligated to study it and make a room request? That is just an uber-planner being an uber-planner (not good or bad, but definitely not necessary!)

ADRs? Is it hard to pick out a restaurant and make a reservation? You just call WDW-DINE and the ultra-friendly rep will make them all for you in one call. Done!

And FP+'s you do *not* have to stay up late for. Especially if you're a resort guest, you can do this any time in the first few weeks of your eligibility and do just fine.

To me it sounds like all this difficulty is self-imposed by deciding up front that you must score everything that everyone else as group cannot. Yeah if you set out to get pre-open adr's to BOG, FP's to A&E, and a particular room, that might be stressful because those are all hard to get. But most guests have no idea they would even want that.

In our earlier trips we just went. No room request. No ADRs. It's Disney World! And yes all the stress comes from the parents... the kids would have a blast eating QS and playing the games while they wait STANDBY for Space Mountain. It is only the parents that get bored. Sheesh. Ppl make this out to be so difficult and then try to say that is the standard takeaway when it's just not.

The standard takeaway of the 16M visitors or whatever is not "too technical, too hard to eat, too hard to ride, not as good as it used to be". It's "Disney World is amazing, we love it because it's so different from a normal theme park.. the cast is so friendly and everything is so clean". Really. That's kind of the general consensus. Think about it. If it was as bad as ppl are saying here, folks would not STILL BE GOING.

Disney World! Vacation! Remember? Fun? Kids? Family?
(shrug).

Completely agree. I don't make room requests; after all I'm mostly just using the room to sleep in. I don't make FP and only a couple of ADR's for favorite restaurants because I don't want to be tired down to a schedule. I decide what park I'm going to the morning of (or maybe the night before), and then I decide on another park for the evening of. If the wait for a ride or restaurant is longer than I care to commit to, I just seek out something else. I don't need or want to pay a lot of attention to the time, except to make a particular show time or for one of my few ADRs. On the whole, I still do pretty much everything I want and with minimal bother and stress. My kids are even worse; seems their generation doesn't make any plans longer than 10 minutes before they want to do it.

 

[maxiesmom]

Why does it it have to be either or? Why can't there be both free roaming and a few meet and greet locations?

Free Roaming was a fight waiting to break out every time. It wasn't safe for the kids or the characters, and caused a lot of hurt feelings.

 

[wisblue]

It sounds to me like the author of this article looked at the Dis and bought into the some of the hyperbole thrown around here hook, line, and sinker.

The biggest clue is when he says that if you don't book your FPs at 12:01 you might as well not bother because they're all gone. And his comment about "mission control" reminds me of the hysterical Disers who compare a Disney trip to a military operation. I don't know of any space flights or military operations that give you a full day to do 3 things, and an hour window to accomplish each of them, and then give you freedom to do whatever you want the rest of the day. And let you change your mind if you decide to do something else instead of the things planned in advance.

I got the biggest laugh out of the comment that his 5 year old daughter would be keeping an eye on the clock lest she miss her opportunity to meet Anna and Elsa. I highly doubt that a 5 year old is going to let a few FP reservations spoil her ability to enjoy a day at the MK. If the day is spoiled, that is the fault of uptight parents, not Disney.

And, I totally agree with a PP's comments about the author's fond memories of when characters roamed free. When our daughters were 5 and younger, those character encounters were some of the only stressful moments of our trips. I have video evidence of our girls being shoved out of the way by bigger kids and their parents while they tried to get a picture or autograph.

Like a lot of other posters, I enjoy planning trips, especially to places that I have never visited before. When we took a trip to Colorado recently, if I hadn't done some reading and planning in advance, I wouldn't have known that (1) if you want to tour the Denver mint, you have to have a reservation, and those reservations disappear within minutes after they become available at midnight Eastern time (not Mountain Time) 30 days out, (2) if you want to take the Cog train to the summit of Pike's Peak, you have to make a reservation at least a week or two in advance or you are left with showing up and hoping for cancellations, and (3) if you don't arrive at Rocky Mountain Narional Park by 9 AM on a busy summer day, you will not get a parking spot in the park and ride in the park, and will have to park outside the park and take a shuttle to the park and ride to catch another bus to the popular hiking trails. By planning ahead, I was able to enjoy my trip a lot more than if we had just shown up, and the rest of the family just got to go along for the ride, oblivious to the fact that I had set all of these things up for them (except for the fact that I have a tendency to remind them of the work I did).

By comparison, because we are regular visitors to WDW, planning a trip there is a piece of cake. We know the lay of the land and what we like to do, and picking out which parks to visit which days and what FPs to select takes literally minutes. Then I can sit back and wait for the trip. That's why I'm always amazed that it's the frequent visitors who are the biggest and most constant complainers about the amount of planning a trip to WDW takes.

 

[merrick]

i think it makes sense that holidays can be more successful based on the amount of planning one is willing to do. i have travelled and almost always think "wish i had known that" at some point or another. my friend is an extreme planner, he has calendars and spreadsheets as well as flow charts (yes, flow charts, if something is a "no" then "go to..."). but that is part of his travel buzz... he loves the planning and researching stage. he has never been to disney, we would probably lose him for months in a black hole of internet research if he tackled disney!

we have only been to wdw once and our agent got us a couple of ADRs, explained fast passes for us and sent us on our way. he said ADRs had already opened up and since we missed that deadline, we would have a harder time with some popular character dining. we didn't care about that AT ALL so we had a fantastic time, while slightly oblivious to what we were possibly missing.

and i appreciated fast pass and not having to wait in the superlong lines. i was at our local theme park this spring and it's crazy to spend 3 hrs there in the morning and only get on 3 rides. they do have a fast pass system that you have to PAY for.

i think there is a segment of the population that will complain, "what happened to spontaneous character interaction?" would turn into 'wow, why haven't they figured out a better system for character interaction?".

 

[JoshuaShaw]

I so respect the post above! NMAmy has made a choice which works for her............no moaning no groaning..........just action.........bravo!

We all have different ideas about this......but if you don't like how things are at WDW you always have the ability to "vote" with your wallet! What's the old saying.........."Actions speak louder than words!"

Doug

I have. And, while I wouldn't describe any of my posts as "moaning and groaning," I do voice displeasure so that there is no confusion as to why I've spent my money elsewhere.

 

[larryz]

Btw: my husband also was very unhappy, to say the least when we found out beaches and cream was now ADR. Threw a fit. Just so frustrating when there is NOTHING available for months and months and the cm is saying, "well, if you had called a year ago, you could have gotten in."

Well, now -- a little CM snarkiness always makes a situation better...

 

[branv]

I am a planner. And I mean I *love* it. Planning/researching a Disney trip for me, whether it was WDW or DCL, was always part of the enjoyment. But our last trip was 2012 just before FP+. We found out we were finally pregnant that year. I think the dreaming of his first trip started within days Who am I kidding, the dreaming started even before that.

But actually planning out his first trip in November, watching all the changes (to me, mostly negative ones), the what I perceive as major loss in "magic" and a glaring swing to prepackaged bottom line, has left me frustrated and sad. There's planning and then there's feeling like being boxed in. Worse is this very real feeling of arrogance, almost like customers are being told lately, "You will take it and you will like it."

So, what would probably have been many trips in his lifetime will now likely be this trip, maybe another when he's old enough to do all the rides (and that will be split with a trip to Universal), and a visit to Disneyland. Don't get me wrong, if he loves it intensely it might swing my decision around again, but my heart definitely isn't in it the same way anymore. Mostly I just feel nostalgic and sad. Ah well. All things change. I guess I have as well in this case. Obviously there are plenty of people there to take up the torch.

 

[larryz]

Disney has done things that were far worse, but I agree that social media has changed the way that we discuss those things. Imagine if Disney were to go back to the E-Ticket days and limit the number of times that you could ride your favorite attraction unless you were willing to pay more? The world was a different place back then. Social media has changed us.

Not really a good analogy. Admission to the park wasn't "all-inclusive" back then. You had to pay extra to ride just about ANYthing.

And if I bought a ticket book with 3 E tickets, I could use all three on the same ride, bingo, bango, bongo...

Can't do that with FP+...

 

[maxiesmom]

Well, now -- a little CM snarkiness always makes a situation better...

As does "throwing a fit".