Buying VWL vs. (or followed by) Copper Creek?

[ElizabethCB]

We are considering buying into DVC and I am hoping to get insights from all of you. We are not current owners.

Our favorite resort is WL, and we definitely want to be based there. We are leaning towards buying at Boulder Ridge (VWL) because of the lower price through resale. Also considering later buying some at CCV; is this silly? Would it be better to just get more VWL resale points?

Is this a good time to buy a VWL resale, in your opinion? Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance!

Elizabeth

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Based on recent precedent, I think almost everyone agrees that cost-per-night for the new CCV units, which are of yet undetermined sizes, will be higher than the current costs for VWL-BRV units, which are of known sizes and configuration.

I think everyone agrees that the per-point cost will be about double what most contracts for VWL in resale are selling for.

So it really depends on how you feel about the pricing. I would assume Copper Creek to run in the $155-165 per point range, and I would expect studios (if they even exist! we don't even know!) to cost likely several points per night more than VWL costs. The cheapest a VWL studio goes for is 15 points/night; the most expensive is 21 points/night. To compare, Poly runs 16 points to 36 per night, depending on season. I would not expect CCV to run as high as Poly, but not as low as VWL. I'd expect them to run 18-25/night for a studio (if there are studios).

Now, sure, CCV will be a 50-year contract vs. a 25-year contract at VWL, but it will also apparently cost about half, so there's that.

 

[disneynutz]

Just sold a small VWL contract in 2 days so others are buying. CCV will be new and you get the 11 months advantage there. BR is older even though it was recently rehabbed and you get the 11 month advantage there. Both get to use the grounds and lobby, BR will stay a quiet place to relax, CCV will have more activity and maybe access to CL.

Bill

 

[ElizabethCB]

Based on recent precedent, I think almost everyone agrees that cost-per-night for the new CCV units, which are of yet undetermined sizes, will be higher than the current costs for VWL-BRV units, which are of known sizes and configuration.

I think everyone agrees that the per-point cost will be about double what most contracts for VWL in resale are selling for.

So it really depends on how you feel about the pricing. I would assume Copper Creek to run in the $155-165 per point range, and I would expect studios (if they even exist! we don't even know!) to cost likely several points per night more than VWL costs. The cheapest a VWL studio goes for is 15 points/night; the most expensive is 21 points/night. To compare, Poly runs 16 points to 36 per night, depending on season. I would not expect CCV to run as high as Poly, but not as low as VWL. I'd expect them to run 18-25/night for a studio (if there are studios).

Now, sure, CCV will be a 50-year contract vs. a 25-year contract at VWL, but it will also apparently cost about half, so there's that.

Thanks! Yes, I agree, given the precedent set by the Polynesian.

I spoke with a resale agent who speculated that the CCV will follow the PVB model of only studios and large cabins. It makes sense that the conversion of the old WL rooms would be small studios, similar to PVB. And obviously they are putting in the cabins on the water, similar to the PVB bungalows.

Thanks again for the info. Good to know we seem to be thinking along the right lines.

 

[ElizabethCB]

Just sold a small VWL contract in 2 days so others are buying. CCV will be new and you get the 11 months advantage there. BR is older even though it was recently rehabbed and you get the 11 month advantage there. Both get to use the grounds and lobby, BR will stay a quiet place to relax, CCV will have more activity and maybe access to CL.

Bill

Good to know. May I ask how small? I'm interested in any details you might want to share, including why you decided to sell now.

We love the idea of a quiet spot adjacent to more activity for our 5 and 11 year old boys. Thank you!

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I spoke with a resale agent who speculated that the CCV will follow the PVB model of only studios and large cabins. It makes sense that the conversion of the old WL rooms would be small studios, similar to PVB.

Definite speculation there. Poly has sold more slowly, I believe, than either BLT or VGF, whether it be cost or nature of the accommodation. Most of the speculation I've seen on DIS has more unit types in the offing at CCV.

 

[Dean]

We are considering buying into DVC and I am hoping to get insights from all of you. We are not current owners.

Our favorite resort is WL, and we definitely want to be based there. We are leaning towards buying at Boulder Ridge (VWL) because of the lower price through resale. Also considering later buying some at CCV; is this silly? Would it be better to just get more VWL resale points?

Is this a good time to buy a VWL resale, in your opinion? Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance!

Elizabeth

If the specifics will affect your choices, you could wait and buy later after the points and specifics are released for Copper Creek. Do realize there will be no overlap between the 2 resorts even though they are in the same location. The current resort will be cheaper and likely lower dues as well but expire sooner. I believe the points will be similar to Poly but slightly less, likely in between Poly and BLT. I'm hopeful they will have larger villas that aren't cabins but we'll see. Or you could buy some and look at an add on later. You'll just need enough at the "new" resort to be functional stand alone. Let's say you judged you needed 250 points. You could buy maybe 150-170 now and then another 100 or so later either at the new resort, the same VWL resort or a different resort. Buying less but a full sized contract and trying the system for a couple of years is a great way to do so anyway. Once you have experience and get a feel for the system you'll often make far better choices going forward.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I spoke with a resale agent who speculated that the CCV will follow the PVB model of only studios and large cabins. .

They are just speculating and I would not let that influence the decision. The most recent strong rumor is that it will have all sized villas in the converted wing. As they have completely gutted it - removed all walls - they can do whatever they wish. With the relatively poor reception of PVB having only studios and the overpriced bungalows I'm more inclined to believe they won't do that again.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Whatever you buy, you need to realize that it will be two separate resorts with two different home resort advantages. So if you prefer staying in the new cabins or in the main lodge, you'll want to own Copper Creek. If you want to stay in the villas building, you'll want to own Boulder Ridge.

 

[APiratesLifeForMe2]

We just recently bought our first DVC contract at VWL /BRV. Not only was the price good, but WL has always been our favorite resort and love the proximity to MK. Plus we knew we would want to stay at VWL in December and that's not likely at the 7 month mark if we bought elsewhere. The downside for us was the contract length. We plan to add on a longer length contract in the future and CC will be a strong contender depending on what it turns out to offer. I think your plans are similar to ours so I think you are right on track. Good luck!

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I don't think contract length should be seen as a huge negative with VWL right now.

In all likelihood, CCV will be in the $155-165 per point range. DVC does not seem to be backing away from high per-point costs, and have applied it to all direct points. I don't see them undercutting Poly significantly on price per point; where CCV may have advantage in points-per-night costs -- i.e., you need fewer of those $165pp points to book a night.

Decent contracts at VWL look to be running $85-95 per point. While this is slightly over half the price of a retail point, the contract is half the length. So, proportionately, assuming similar dues structures over the next 25 years, your cost-per-point-per-year will be similar.

 

[ElizabethCB]

This is all such great feedback. Thank you!

I am leaning toward buying 100-150 points at BRV. I figure the cost difference to stay at CCV would not be worth it to us when the amenities would be the same. But if we feel differently later, it might be feasible to add at CCV later.

Thanks, all!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

This is all such great feedback. Thank you!

I am leaning toward buying 100-150 points at BRV. I figure the cost difference to stay at CCV would not be worth it to us when the amenities would be the same. But if we feel differently later, it might be feasible to add at CCV later.

Thanks, all!

And, if everything goes along the suspected plans for CCV there isn't much reason to think that it would not be possible to book there at 7 months at times too.

 

[ElizabethCB]

And, if everything goes along the suspected plans for CCV there isn't much reason to think that it would not be possible to book there at 7 months at times too.

I agree! Especially early on.

 

[lovin'fl]

I'd go resale on the VWL. Maybe go on the smaller of your range in case you want to add some at the new CC.

 

[Dean]

This is all such great feedback. Thank you!

I am leaning toward buying 100-150 points at BRV. I figure the cost difference to stay at CCV would not be worth it to us when the amenities would be the same. But if we feel differently later, it might be feasible to add at CCV later.

Thanks, all!

If buying makes sense and you decide to proceed resale, I'd strongly suggest considering at least 150 points as it'll give you a lot more contracts to chose from and a cushion for points for rooms/resorts that are more like CC.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Yes I'm hoping to sneak in at 7 months after the opening at CCV

 

[DenLo]

As to buying a second contract at CCV when it goes on sale, since it is a different DVC resort you will not be able to combine the points until the 7 month mark at either resort. At the 11 month mark you can use the BRV points at BRV and the CCV points at CCV only. You could do a split stay and move rooms. I would also consider always having the same Use Year because then at the 7 month mark you can combine points to use for single night and without transferring points.

 

[ElizabethCB]

Again, thank you! I'm thinking strictly resale, and agree that 150 points is about right.

We are still thinking, and not ready to buy. But I'm curious to get thoughts on this contract that came up this morning:

150 points. August use year. 200 points currently available (150 + 50 banked points from 2015, banked points need to be used by 8/1/17) and 150 points coming on 8/1/17. Closing Costs: $681 Annual Dues at Closing: $981 Priced at $98/pt ($14700) Total Price: $16362

$98 a point looks high to me, but the rest looks good to my limited knowledge. Any thoughts?

 

[BWV Dreamin]

For VWL? Yes this is high. Seller is trying to get compensated for banked and current points). A lot of contracts are sold stripped. I would offer $88/pt to start assuming they counter. I wouldn't pay more than $89/pt. But that's just me.